Oklahoma Abortion Law: Details To Be Publicly Posted

[caseymoz]

Source: Huffington Post

A new Oklahoma law requires physicians to disclose detailed information on women's abortions to the State's Department Of Health, which will then post the collected data on a public website. The controversial measure comes into effect on November 1 and will cost $281,285 to implement, $256,285 each subsequent year to maintain.

Oklahoma women undergoing abortion procedures will be legally forced to reveal:

1) Date of abortion
2) Country in which abortion is performed
3) Age of mother
4) Marital status of mother
5) Race of mother
6) Years of education of mother
7) State or foreign country of residence of mother
8) Total number of previous pregnancies of the mother


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/oklahoma-abortion-law-det_n_313779.html

---

This is very spiteful.

[Fresh_Start]

1. where's the information on the father? nt

nt

[Shireling]

97. Boys will be Boys

But she was a BAD GIRL!! :evilfrown:

[No Elephants]

121. The father did not have the abortion. This is about abortions, not sex.

[KakistocracyHater]

124. NO! This is about adult rights of women & also regular birth control pills

when THEY say abortion they really mean ALL BIRTH CONTROL. I go to their sites & read this, they are increasingly very obvious about this. It's about living like it's 1 A.D. All powers return to the priests, this is their goal, with them being the priests.

[Demeter]

2. It Has to Be Prima Facie Unconstitutional, Too

I suspect this will never be implemented. And some people ought to be thrashed. This is a case worthy of capital punishment for stupidity and evilness.

[depakid]

9. Since when have states like Oklahoma cared about what's constitutional?

[caseymoz]

20. I almost think the Federal Government should let some red states

exist as foreign countries for a while. Oklahoma is the most recent one where I feel like that. Another recent one was Kentucky.

[lark]

60. #1 PICK FOR SECESSION

Of course, it's Texas. Get shrub and his whole state outta here.

:toast:

[NeoConsSuck]

137. As hard as they try

they're only #2 in my book. South Carolina easily is #1.

[MadMaddie]

104. I agree with you

Let's give 3 or 4 states and then wall them off and let them destroy themselves.

I think the rest of the states should welcome all that want to leave and get them started on a new life of freedom.

I find it laughable that the Repugs scream about government intrusion in their lives but they try to implement a law like this.

[Hepburn]

50. Geeeeeez.....

....there is NO way that is Constitutional.

[Enthusiast]

69. I'm not so sure.

Some current member of the SCOTUS have claimed there is no inherent right to privacy in the constitution.

[caseymoz]

79. Which is wrong, but since they've almost destroyed the whole 4th amendment anyway. nt

[Downwinder]

91. They sure complained about their data being posted on line.

[caseymoz]

96. You got a point there.

Try posting some data about gun purchases, what county along with serial numbers.

[Enthusiast]

113. And that proves the present

day SCOTUS is anything but a model of jurisprudence. They are simply a motley crew of right wing ideologs.

Take just one example of how Scalia went duck hunting with Cheney one week yet refused to recuse himself the next when ruling on access to the secret energy meetings. He simply justified this by saying "There is no conflict of interest." We are supposed to be satisfied with that.

[No Elephants]

122. They won't even let oral argument be televised; and we pay their salaries and own the courthouse.

[madmusic]

127. Oral argument should not be televised. Imagine Nancy Grace hosting. nt

[caseymoz]

80. Oklahoma is trying to test abortion in the new court, hopeful of Aleto and Roberts. nt

[madmusic]

126. Not necessarily, the state may have a "compelling interest to regulate"

And regulation is not punishment. The only question would be if it is a violation of privacy. Is the requested information already public information? Like age and marital status? Or is it private medical information? The courts may limit it to non-medical information, but it may not be "prima facie unconstitutional."

I'm sure the legislature researched this and got legal opinions but that doesn't mean they got it right. or all right.

[wickerwoman]

133. The requested information is "who got an abortion?"

By definition, it is confidential medical information and not public.

That's like saying "who buys viagra? how old are they? are they married?" is not private medical information because age and marital status are on public record.

[JerseygirlCT]

3. Is everyone in that state insane?

(I know they're not).

This is discrimination, and it's an affront to privacy rights of patients. Good grief, there are some way out there whackjobs in OK.

[caseymoz]

6. It seems like insanity is a rigid qualification for elected office in Oklahoma. nt

You could be liberal as hell in that state, but unless you give a public show of insane conservatism, you don't have a chance.

[a la izquierda]

39. That's exactly right...

from a girl living in Oklahoma.

[lyonn]

27. I live here and I think you may be right

My husband was talking the other day to our CPA, who is a dem., and my husband said sarcasticly that he thought there might be 3 dem. in all of Okla.. The CPA said, I know you and I are but who is the third. I had no idea how sheep like people here are and I've lived here most of my adult life and I am 71. Maybe they don't realize how poor they really are, you know, wanna bees??!! And yes, it can be scary living here. Don't talk religion or politics. What's left to talk about, oh, I know, Sally Sue is having a baby and she plans on getting married in the near future - true stories. I see it on Facebook all the time. Or maybe how Obama is ruining our economy.......

Sorry, just had to rant.

[leftynyc]

31. Is there absolutely no way

the women of OK will come together and fight this?

[caseymoz]

84. The problem with women supporting Choice issue is

that women often do not consider its importance until they need it. A conservative family, community or state can make women feel as though it is really not a problem they will ever have-- as long as they do not sin.

Therefore, the Right has always been able to divide women on it at an early age. Importantly, the deception works most on adolescent girls, who are most vulnerable to rape or deception anyway.

[blueredneck]

136. Doubtful

Women aren't allowed to speak here. Take a drive through some of these rural towns. Very Norman Rockwell-esque. Long denim skirts and bee hive hairdos hiding behind bibles.

[defendandprotect]

33. GOP patriarchy reigns in Oklahoma . . .??

Don't know the history of the state -- was it ever considered majority Democratic voters?

And, are we to be led to believe that FEW women in Oklahoma want the right to Choose?

Are they supposedly chasing down the FEW who disobey?

Or, are women in Oklahoma pretty much like women everywhere who have abortions and they're

chasing them down?

[a la izquierda]

41. In the early 20th century

Oklahoma was actually a socialist stronghold.


My how things have changed...
Apparently, women here don't have abortions. :sarcasm:
I live in a relatively liberal part of the state (yeah, one exists), and I know that my primary care doc is liberal...I can't even imagine what he must think about this.

[defendandprotect]

42. Interesting . . .

I'll have to try to look into that a bit further --

but, would you strictly credit GOP right wing propaganda with turning

Oklahomans against their own best interests? Or something else?

[a la izquierda]

56. Personally, coming from a New Jersey upbringing

and having spent my early 20s in Los Angeles, I'd attribute the turn to religion. Seriously.
But I really should ask my colleagues who are Oklahoma historians (I study Latin America), because I'm fairly sure that religion has something to do with it, along with Oklahoma's sense of independence. People don't like government meddling here.


Needless to say, not long after I moved here, I got bounced from a bar for getting into a political argument with a woman.

[JerseygirlCT]

59. Although they don't seem to mind government meddling

in the lives and medical care of women.

This is something that I've been screaming at the television for weeks now as the right has spewed sanctimonious crap about keeping the government out of their private lives. They absolutely don't see the screaming irony of it. Hey, I don't want the government (or insurance companies) interfering in a woman's private medical decisions either!

[defendandprotect]

66. Great point . . . maybe someone will start listening soon . . . ????

:)

[a la izquierda]

67. Delightful hypocrisy, no?

I thoroughly enjoy pointing this out to people here.

[defendandprotect]

65. Well, wouldn't be the first time "god" has been used to subordinate people . . .

Bar + politics = trouble !!

Thanks --

:)

[caseymoz]

85. That antipathy of the Federal Government is something new.

And it isn't really in any way logical.

There were many states, especially in the west, that became very socialist during the Depression. In my own state, Missouri, they had a case several years ago where somebody challenged a tuition hike at State Universities and colleges due to a forgotten Depression era law that guaranteed all people resident in the State a free University education up to a degree. The Plaintiff won the case and it through the State University system into chaos for a year. Of course, our Conservative legislature saved the State from becoming Cuba-on-the-Mississippi by repealing the law.

What frustrates me most about Conservatives is this emphasis on blocking needed actions because the wrong part of government is doing it, or that government is doing it when private industry should be. Do they really think they are going make abortion a State issue? It seems to me if they absolutely think abortion is murder, it could not be a matter for the States to decide. I know that Pro-Choice Illinois and anti-Choice Missouri will have some tension over women traveling to Illinois to have abortions.

[KatyaR]

95. Here are some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_socialism

http://www.okreadsok.com/sixpack/thirdsixpack/agrarian/agrarianexcerpt.html

I have the book referenced on the second link, it's a little dry but pretty good. It's shocking to see how the state has changed in less than a century.

My grandfather at one time was a member of an Oklahoma Socialist party in the 1920s. My cousins used to tell me he was forced to join the KKK (they threated the family, according to them), but it was only the Socialists.

[caseymoz]

103. The whole country, especially in the west, was quite socialist in the 20s & 30s.

That is a tradition that Conservatives have tried to expunge from the history books, but which will probably be resurgent if the economy is going to stay this bad.

[blueredneck]

135. I'm the third one. LOL

:P

[Scruffy1]

81. YES

Oklahoma is an entirely owned subsidiary of OIL. Its people are fed a steady diet of propaganda from cradle to grave. There idea of culture is football and art is a statue of a horse. It cultivates ugly like Iowans cultivate corn. Any doctor who cooperates with this law should lose their license.

[caseymoz]

86. That's strange, because there isn't enough oil left in Oklahoma to squeeze from a towel. nt

[blueredneck]

138. You hit the nail on the sooner head.

I had several neighbors ask me who I was voting for in the last Presidential election. Upon hearing I was voting or Obama, I was immediately schooled on all the reasons that Obama was the Anti-Christ and shown how many people were prophesying about it. I was also told that I was a supporting a baby killer who wanted to take guns away. Even when presented with my very concrete evidence to the contrary, these people couldn't digest common sense and when they lost an argument they quoted scripture. The churches were more politically active than any other grass roots organization I have ever seen in my lifetime.

[blueredneck]

134. It certainly seems that way at times...

And I live here. I'm sure the supporters of this horrendous violation of rights would have rather it had been an actual scarlet letter instead of an internet based one in this legislation. A real scarlet letter would enable the religious nut jobs to exorcise the "devils" in these women. I have visions of a new Salem witch trial environment.

[spartan61]

4. I find it truly amazing that the repukes

are pro-life from conception until birth. After birth, they just don't give a damn. I think they are then truly pro-death. "Let's have another war so we can kill more people."

[caseymoz]

16. That's a conundrum, but arguing that to them misses the point.

They don't want to kill innocent life, and they really see the process in the womb as "creating life," which, to them, is only God's right.

To at least many of them, what happens to women because of this is very unfortunate, but for the nation itself to approve sin by legalizing abortion, they consider that the worst evil.

Some of them are quite consistently against abortion and war-- especially the Catholics.

Your argument sounds to them like: don't sin that way, sin this way!

However, I agree with the total frustration you feel about the inconsistency.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

24. The only flaw with that is that a lot of the "pro life" people have no compunction about

killing all Muslims even if they are innocent of harming anyone.

I'm not saying that they all feel that way, but where I live that seems to be a common characteristic of the pro-life people.

Gays also fall into the "it's OK to kill those people" category.

Around here, they pretty much feel that way about people with dark skin also.

I have no problem with pro life advocates as long as the playing field is level for all people.

[caseymoz]

101. Actually, there are different reasons for all of those.

They don't think, for one reason or another, Muslims are innocent. I guess that was the country's dominant feeling toward the American Indian, too.

For other races, you are right. Obama's presidency is showing Conservative's racial psychosis, and sometimes pure psychotic, Neo-Nazism emerges.

For gays, without a doubt they despise gays very heinously, but the Bible makes this worse, and it assures that there will be a tradition of homo-hatred in some Christian sects, unless there is a better translation they accept. (I'll add: any sex act a person absolutely cannot enjoy is probably going to disgust him or her, too. There are men for whom feeling disgust feels very much like moral outrage. Confuse that by what's in the Bible and there is a problem).

[defendandprotect]

108. Of course, the Vatican, Christian churches long taught these hatreds . ..

it's not accidental that people think this way after being brainwashed by Christianity

for two thousand years in the spreading hatred and intolerance.

While the Vatican was pretty much hiding the Bible as convoluted, they've decided now to

join the Bible - thumpers and go Evangelical.

The Bible was written to cement patriarchy --

As they say . . . "You have to be taught to hate and fear . . .

you have to be carefully taught."

[caseymoz]

110. The questions then become . . .

Can anybody be a Christian without the hatred? And is hatred a necessary part of it? No matter what the Church authorities say or have said?

Another question: since the purpose of Christianity is supposed to be to help people avoid Hell and enter Heaven, is hatred in any way involved in that process? Does Christianity require you to kill infidels or homosexuals? Could doing so help or hurt a person?

I know the goals may be null, that is, maybe there is no afterlife, or maybe the scriptures are totally erroneous regarding how to reach the "good afterlife," but there is nothing in the religions that say killing and hatred of gays or "Heathens" will put you into heaven. Parts of the Old Testament may disputably call for the Jewish People to kill male homosexuals, but it never says that doing so will get you closer to heaven and further from hell. Neither does the New Testament, as far as I could tell, call for saving one's soul by killing an infidel.

However, the Christian Church leadership has been a magnet for some bad men throughout history. That doesn't recommend Christianity as being truthful or good.

Also, I have to argue that nobody sat down to write the scriptures with the direct, conscious idea to cement the patriarchy. The scriptures evolved, starting first as oral traditions. Generations changed them, altered them according to their contemporary interpretation. I think the Patriarchal view became dominant during the Babylonian exile, and I think the Jewish religion was much more pagan and cosmopolitan before then. However, after the exile, in the classical age, almost all civilizations in the Middle East were patriarchal. Hell, under the Roman Republic, women did not even have individual names. Any daughter of Octavius was called Octavia, and any Daughter of Julius was named Julia. That seems like a terribly cumbersome system, and the only reason there can be for it was the the "ownership" of the woman was the only important thing to the Roman Patriarchs.

And my SWAG is that there's no evidence that classical civilizations were getting any better about this before Judaism spread, or before before Christianity took over, either. So, I'm afraid the the patriarchy will have to be fought whether we have Christianity or not, and psychologically, it is much more complex than that.

And even though I don't think there can be much conscious hatred as a reason for clinging strictly to the scriptures, it certainly is the case that there is some unconscious process afoot. I mean, it happens too often that, for example, the fundamentalist despises gays and those who despise gays become fundamentalists. Or that those against the Equal Rights Amendment were fundamentalist Christians. Or that people who are anti-choice are fundamentalist even though the Bible says absolutely nothing about abortion! Lacking that they'll quote Revelations about the Whore of Babylon. There is too much of a correlation to for there not to be a strong connection, but just what is the mental process that connects one to the other?

I know liberals have their guesses on what the connection is, but it doesn't seem to exactly decipher it.

[defendandprotect]

112. Well, I think the ....

question remains, why do people believe in a "god" and in particularly in ONE/ALL MALE god?

How much does it have to do with the violence against nature and women which preceded the
patriarchal takeover and the continued violence which kept it in place -- perhaps over 50,000
years and more?

The second question may be does anyone have to believe in anything to do with "gods" and/or
Christianity or any other religion in order to be a good person? I think the answer is "NO."

In fact, historically, we have seen the opposite -- that those who created the one/all male god
have kept their teachings in place with violence . . . Vatican's Jewish ghettos where they forced
Jews to wear Yellow Stars, prohibited them from mingling with the rest of society, barred them from education and professions for 1,100 years! And then the Vatican/Pope were outraged when the Jews
were freed by the French/Italians! The Crusades, lest we forget. The Hammer of Witches/The Women's
Holocaust. Papal Bulls which called for the enslavement or death of the Native American and the
African enslaved here. The Jewish Holocaust in Germany after thousands of years of Vatican teaching
hatred for Jews!

Another question: since the purpose of Christianity is supposed to be to help people avoid Hell and enter Heaven, is hatred in any way involved in that process? Does Christianity require you to kill infidels or homosexuals? Could doing so help or hurt a person?

Rather it looks like the purpose of the Vatican is to enrich itself while keeping tight control over
its members -- in fact, in the abortion issue, they are trying to control all women, not simply church
members. As for "Hell," this is an invention of patriarchy - as the Devil and Satan are. The way to control people then and now is thru FEAR. But, I would suggest that Satan is a projection of their own inner fears and ugliness.

As far as the Bible/scriptures are concerned -- it is some of the worst and most convoluted writings
ever seen -- topped off on every page by violence.


Also, I have to argue that nobody sat down to write the scriptures with the direct, conscious idea to cement the patriarchy. The scriptures evolved, starting first as oral traditions. Generations changed them, altered them according to their contemporary interpretation.

The Old Testament features a violent, vengeful ... one/all male god. That was a FIRST.
Preceding it was a long period of male and female gods, many of which still pop up here and there
in religious writings - Catholicism - Islamic writings. Females were subverted -- wasn't Ruth a
lesbian? Female writings eliminated in the main. Genesis is a myth to turn the world upside down.
From female centered to male dominated.

Think of the Garden of Eden this way -- cows don't GROW in a garden.
An apple is beneficial to one's health - always has been. So what's the problem?
I think it is where violence against animals began.
With the overturning of women the world gets turned upside down.
Females are also the natural protectors of children - they were our original doctors/herbists.
Close to nature and more spiritual than males.

The story of the Garden of Eden is an obvious script to subvert females.
As far as ALL myth is concerned only the female has ever brought forth life --
at least on this planet!

And, poof! -- you're back to Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" -- and Mel Brooks comments ...
the awareness that the central dissatisfaction among males is that nature made them secondary!

If you want patriarchy to disappear, you first have to disappear their organized patriarchal
religion. That's the underpinning for patriarchy.

That the Bible says "nothing about abortion" makes clearer that patriarchy cannot exist without
controlling females. Can it?

Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" are the licenses for exploitation of nature,
natural resources, animal-life -- and even of other human beings according to various myths of
"inferiority."

Nature is a more reliable guide than man-made religion --





:)

[caseymoz]

123. The answer is so far outside the scope here, that it will in your in box.

If you do not mind?

[defendandprotect]

129. If you wish . . .

PM me . . .

[defendandprotect]

107. "Pro-lifers" also have no compunction about killing doctors . . even in churches!!

The Vatican has long taught hatred and intolerance for women, people of other faith, Jews,
homosexuals -- and the right to one's own conscience.

[defendandprotect]

34. Catholic Church is also against birth control and women . . . !!!

However, many in the church are still fighting to have the full personhood of

women acknowledged by the Vatican as they acknowledge the full personhood of males.

And, doubt any but a handful in the church obey the church's edicts on birth control???????

Meanwhile, just as many Catholic women have abortions as any other women --

Keep fighting it -- !!!

And this is a Democratic Governor . . . ???!!!

[caseymoz]

90. The opposition to birth control is partly why the issue is correctly called "choice" not "abortion."

If you go to any "Pro-Life" meeting as somebody against abortion but not birth control, you are going to make no friends, they are going to look at you like your a zombie who just wandered from the smoldering ruins of Sodom. In fact, you won't be on their donation list. For most, it means, of course, you are going to commit the sin of lust and simply want a way to get away from it.

However, the Catholic Church is against birth control for the specific reason I gave. To them, every sex act is sinful, even within marriage unless it is "open" to God's right to create a new life.

Before you go any further, please know that I find this argument to be extremely stupid. So, you say, He might create whenever he wants, He's friggin God. According to the Church, it won't actually stop God, but it's your will to thwart Him that is sinful. The church then gives some doubletalk about it, and they come up with the distinction that inconvenient, less effective, "natural" birth control is not sinful-- within marriage, and convenient, more effective birth control is.

So, as I read Humanae Vitae, it dawned on me: the Church is arguing that condoms and birth Control Pills are immoral because they are too damn effective!

Previous questions I have, why is a condom any less natural than a thermometer? It is a little like saying an automobile tire is more natural than a computer screen.

I had a very Catholic Uncle actually say, after reading Humanae Vitae, that he thought God creates a life before conception, and you actually commit murder with birth control. That was simply him trying to stay ahead of the Church.

The Catholic Church I knew in the '60s seemed a very good place. In the '70s, it began to become a strange religion. I mean one based on superstitions about "artificial" and "natural" things carrying sin, about distinctions in Birth Control methods that didn't exist, distinctions that had never in history been made. On superstitions about how to have sinless sex.

Like most of the right-wing religious organizations, it cares nothing about the actual effectiveness of birth control, or if even Catholic women have as many abortions as any other women. You cannot make those arguments because that is not what it is trying to achieve.

[defendandprotect]

109. I understand the opposition to artificial birth control . . .

I'm a recovering Catholic -- Catholic schools, religion medals and all that --

You might also know that there used to be a very insulting ceremony for women AFTER they bore a
child which was called "candling" if I remember correctly. It was intended to "purify" them!

Just recently, I saw the "Brothers McMullen" again after a long while, and one of the female characters is discussing why she thought she had to get married -- and how she changed her mind and left the church! Have you ever seen that movie?


So, as I read Humanae Vitae, it dawned on me: the Church is arguing that condoms and birth Control Pills are immoral because they are too damn effective!

Brilliant point!
Unfortunately, for Africa!

Previous questions I have, why is a condom any less natural than a thermometer? It is a little like saying an automobile tire is more natural than a computer screen.

Another excellent point!

The Catholic Church I knew in the '60s seemed a very good place. In the '70s, it began to become a strange religion. I mean one based on superstitions about "artificial" and "natural" things carrying sin, about distinctions in Birth Control methods that didn't exist, distinctions that had never in history been made. On superstitions about how to have sinless sex.

They ran quite a brainwashing in NYC when I was in Catholic schools there--!
The oddest thing, IMO, is that they still refuse to admit the equality of females -- in fact,
they joined the Mormons in using tax-exempt funds to fight the ERA!
Don't understand how any women support the RCC -- ??!!

As I see this . . .

Like most of the right-wing religious organizations, it cares nothing about the actual effectiveness of birth control, or if even Catholic women have as many abortions as any other women. You cannot make those arguments because that is not what it is trying to achieve.

The Vatican is seeking to keep control over females and reproduction -- if they lose the abortion
battle, birth control is also over.
Their main mission is controlling sexuality and reproduction for obvious reasons of benefit to
themselves.
As women are freed by democracy as equals, the church's patriarchal positions become more and
more ridiculous. Losing control over women and reproduction is huge for the church.

It's been a church based on creating myths of "inferiorty" of others -- Women, Jews, Africans
enslaved here, Native Americans, Homosexuals --

It's almost all gone . . .

And, this is patriarchy's underpinning -- organized patriarchal religion.

That's why the GOP began the resurrection of right-wing religion -- with Christian Coalition
and Dobson's organization, Bauer's organization -- it's all astroturf, based on right-wing $$$.

Same with the Islamic JIHAD violence US/CIA created and moved to the Middle East.

Astonishing -- but true!

:)

[PassingFair]

119. Here is a noble cause....Fighting for the "Pre-Conceived"!!

http://www.geocities.com/preconceivedbabies/hypocrisy.html

[kestrel91316]

139. Women aren't persons, silly! Only men and fetuses are.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CrispyQ]

57. It's not about "pro-life." It's about controlling & oppressing women.

If they were truly pro-life, they would support policies that actually decrease the number of abortions.

They are hypocrites of the worst sort - harshly judging others lives & decisions in the context of their own life. I can honestly say I hate these people & the world would be a better place without them.

[caseymoz]

100. That's not how most of them see themselves . . .

. . . but they certainly don't object much to the practical results, which are controlling and oppressing women. Or they are willfully blind to it, or don't see it as the problem requiring their attention.

Most, I think, simply oppose the legality of abortion, thinking that it's a public issue because the God in the Old Testament punishes nations for their sins. This means that if a woman gets raped, the man has sinned and should be punished, but if the government legalizes abortion in that case, then the nation itself has approved sinning. It means that if abortion is generally legal, then the State might be supporting the sin of lust, and, it has been played up too much that abortion is murder.

This is why it isn't good enough for them to just keep abortion legal and pretend amongst themselves that it isn't. Not having one, not causing one, and not performing one would seem good enough otherwise. But God might smite our nation if we did that.

This is actually a very American view, one that goes back to the Puritans, who actually believed neighbors should check on each to ensure nobody was making God angry at all of them. What is unusual was the way the Catholic church came out against abortion in the 70s, with the most psychotic reasoning possible.

[BolivarianHero]

5. If Brad Henry doesn't veto this...

Expel him from the Democratic Party, violently if necessary.

[brendan120678]

7. He signed it in May...

it goes into effect on November 1.

[BolivarianHero]

10. Then feminist groups should harass him...

He should be scared to leave his office until he apologizes and makes arrangements to fix this mess.

[David__77]

8. What was the stated rationale for this?

I cannot imagine other than to intimidate women.

[Vidar]

11. The fucking puritans are flourishing.

[defendandprotect]

38. They certainly planned to and have reached the top of the hierarchies in this country -- Congress--

Governors -- etal

[Zoeisright]

12. Isn't anybody challenging this law?

Why isn't the ACLU on it?

[caseymoz]

18. It has only been passed today, I think.

I believe completely that it's Oklahoma's first test case for the "Conservative majority" of the the Supreme Court. We are very lucky that Sotomayor is on the court, though she might not be enough.

[lobodons]

13. Wow!!!!

Talk about knuckle dragging Neanderthals. Sounds kinda Talibani to me.

[valerief]

14. I hear the women in Oklahomastan are also required by law to wear burquas.

:grr:

[mac56]

15. It's too bad, because I've vacationed in Oklahoma before.

Really enjoyed it. But they won't see any more of my tourism dollars now.

Anyone else?

[Doctor_J]

17. When the next patient or Doctor is assassinated, I would like

to see the legislators who voted for this charged as accessories

[bluethruandthru]

19. All Oklahoma men seeking treatment for Erectile Dysfunction should have to be publicized as well!

I mean, c'mon...really? How about putting the women in stocks in the town square too!

[caseymoz]

23. Maybe it is time for women to leave Oklahoma en masse.

That will take of that "abortion problem." If men outnumber women there 3-1, I'm certain there will be a re-examination of values there.

[theblasmo]

21. Sorry.

We liberal Oklahomans have fought the good fight, but the "squeezed" people seem to be winning here. It will never actually go into effect, it's so unconstitutional it's funny. They did the same thing with the ultrasound law, it never went into effect and was eventually thrown out. They're just playing to their supporters, and it doesn't matter how incredibly stupid the law might be. I've blogged about my home state and the "squeezed", and if you'd like to read it, here it is:
http://40til40.blogspot.com/2008/11/oklahoman-history-x.html

The governor may be listed as a Democrat, but he's far from a blue one. Neither is our one Democratic Senator. I like both of them, but they have to stay further to the right in order to get elected. Mary Fallin will probably be our next governor, and that's such a huge step in the wrong direction I don't even want to think about it.

Hate to say it, but it'll stay this way until these idiots die off, and they keep reproducing at an alarming rate.

[Baltimore]

62. Oklahoma senators

Both senators from Oklahoma are Republicans.

[theblasmo]

93. Yup

Dan Boren is a Rep. My bad. I was too busy shaking my head in dismay to get it right.

[jfkraus]

22. They should just go ahead and brand them with a scarlet "A"

:sarcasm:

[Omaha Steve]

25. What about HIPPA laws?

US law would make this invalid!

[Hepburn]

52. Good point....

...hope this bullshit stops.

[Xenotime]

26. This should be illegal.

[Blue_Tires]

28. so now it is clearly not enough to merely kill doctors anymore

they've got to track down and 'purge' the women...

[kestrel91316]

140. IIRC, the Dominionists believe that abortion and birth control should be capital

offenses for both the doctor involved and the woman.

[robo50]

29. I knew there was a reason NOT to visit OK. I'd have to be on the

lookout for stupid all around me. I wouldn't want to step in stupid, or bump into stupid while walking down the street.

I'd most likely be arrested for being from a liberal state.

[Hermit Extrovert]

53. I'd stay the hell away

I live in Texas now, but my girlfriend and her family are from Oklahoma (as are my parents). We don't go because of the virulent homophobia. Last time we were there we were spit on by skinheads while driving - not sure if it was looking like lesbians or our McKinney sticker.

It's so bad that, when considering a vacation to Missouri recently, I considered either flying or driving around the state adding hours or days to the trip.

Also, on a purely practical note, be advised that it is perfectly legal for Oklahoma cops to tow your car out from under you - I mean they can stop you while you are driving and take your car. Last time we were in Oklahoma we were having really hard (near homeless) financial times and our plates were expired CA plates - it almost happened to us, and we would have been stranded in the heat in a small OK town with no way to get home. We're very lucky the cop gave us a break in the form of a super-expensive ticket.

Seriously - don't go there. There are more problems there than just the stupid.

[juno jones]

32. This is why

all the OK-born and bred people I've known over the years were living on the west coast and had no intention of returning to their home state.

Seeing this stuff, I really can't blame them.

[Mz Pip]

35. Doctor Patient confidentiality

seems to be out the door with this.

How can this be legal? Race of the mother?????????? :wtf:

someone needs to sue damn quick on this.

[KamaAina]

36. Just like the public lists of johns and sex offenders.

Oh, wait a minute, both those things are illegal. Abortion is not, no matter how much these tinhorn legislators* wish it were. :grr: :banghead:

[polmaven]

37. While I find it all despicable,

What in the WORLD does the Race of the mother have to do with ANYTHING????

What a bunch of absolute CRAP!!!!!!!

[defendandprotect]

40. Has to do with racism --- and sexism -- and grand old patriarchy . . .!!

[polmaven]

47. Of course it does..

I guess I'm going to have to go back to geography class. All this time I was under the impression that Oklahoma was located in the United States.

Bunch of racist misogynists! :puke:

[Hekate]

45. Darlin' the only thing that really matters to them is the mother's gender.All else is ancillary. nt

[Thothmes]

115. Why does it have any importance on a birth certificate.

[polmaven]

118. In my opinion..

it doesn't! It has no importance to any part of our lives. It is only important to racist, fascist a-holes.

[Thothmes]

125. tell that to the racist facist a-holes that come for the census.

[MidwestRick]

43. Does this tie...

the woman's name to this information for public viewing? If not, it's merely going to be used for statistical purposes. I have no problem if that is the case.

[Beaverhausen]

48. Even if no names are used, why do you favor it being posted publically?

[MidwestRick]

55. Sunshine

With the ability to collect this data, hopefully, they can tailor the education process to decrease the number of abortions as a whole at least in that state.

[Hekate]

61. The only reason for this move is naming and shaming, not education. Don't kid yourself...

[Control-Z]

70. Ya really think?

What, bigger and better abstinence programs?

You do understand that decreasing abortion solves nothing? When you stop an abortion you force the birth of a human being, an unwanted one, which often creates more poverty, violence, suffering...

The ONLY real solution would be to reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies, but I highly doubt Oklahoma has any plans to do that in any meaningful way. They are way too busy punishing women.

edit: typos, typos, typos

[mudderfudder77]

72. ...

Not talking about 'stopping abortions', he's talking about preventing the need for them by targeting the groups who need the most resources, education, and contraceptives.

Statistics will help them focus the money on just the right groups.

[MidwestRick]

74. I'm not talking about ending legal abortions

but education can aid in the unwanted pregnancies in the first place. I'm all for any and every woman's right to this procedure, but at the same time, I'd love to see a day when the numbers of abortions drop drastically.

As long as the government is not tying this information to a name or ssn, I have no issue with this information being gathered.

[Control-Z]

77. The information is already gathered.

Why make it public?

[Beaverhausen]

76. rainbow - this data is already collected

most healthcare providers collect this data and track it. I know- I've seen it with my own eyes when I worked at a hospital.

There is no reason to publish it publicly. None.

[Gormy Cuss]

92. Neither confidentiality nor anonymity are assured simply because there's no name on the record.

With most governmental records gathered for statistical purposes there are restrictions on release of data when there are too few observations in a unit to keep the data confidential. Unless the OK law makes this stipulation as well, there is an anonymity issue, and once the data are no longer anonymous there is no confidentiality either. For example, inn rural areas and small towns the eight data points collected may be sufficient to identify the patient especially since it's likely that only a limited number of physicians perform abortions.

[Hekate]

44. Does it come with funds to tattoo a scarlet letter on the women's foreheads? Or would that seem...

... excessive to these latter-day Puritans?

God help us all.

Hekate

[mac56]

46. Naah, they wouldn't want to support the tattoo artists.

:shrug:

[Control-Z]

73. Ooh!! Scarlet letter tats!!

I want one. We should all get one.

The idiots would be so confused.

[mudderfudder77]

49. Is the Name Public?

If the name of the patient is not made public I don't have a problem with this.

[MH1]

141. It's intimidating and a waste of time

imagine that you have to fill out a similar form for any medical procedure or prescription! (plan B is included in this law)

imagine the hassle for the doctor's office and the added cost to the procedure.

imagine the intimidation the doctor might feel knowing that Operation Rescue and similar orgs will be advertising to their gun-toting members which doctors are performing the most abortions.

imagine the time the legislature spent on this abomination.

still don't have a problem with it?

[Lilyhunter]

51. Not spiteful.

This isn't spiteful, it's revolting.

[caseymoz]

94. As adults making laws, being spiteful IS revolting.

So, I agree with you.

[rocktivity]

54. And is very unconstitutional

Happily, a lawsuit has been filed. Physicians, don't do it!

:eyes:
rocktivity

[tomm2thumbs]

89. +1 glad you noted that

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BolivarianHero]

82. Awww...

Did the poor little moran get lost on the way to StormFront?

[Botany]

87. are you hungry?

[Control-Z]

63. Well then, women

need to lie about everything, except, of course, their gender, which would be impossible to lie about. Oh, wait. It's Oklahoma. They just might be able to.

No woman should reveal her true age, marital status, race, years of education, state or foreign country of residence, or number of previous pregnancies.

[Justitia]

111. exactly! While waiting for this "law" to be overturned - LIE! On every question!

There is not a fucking reason on earth that any woman should feel compelled to answer a single one of these questions.

It is so outrageous, that I would even answer the dumbass gender question as "male".

Fuck these assholes. Women don't owe them shit.

[nc4bo]

64. Perhaps they should also add the name of the person(s) they last had sexual relations with

that may have gotten them pregnant?

I bet quite a few men/boys would have a huge problem with that one, eh?

Sickening.

[mudderfudder77]

68. From the looks of it

There are no names being added to this information - so I have no idea why the name of the father would be relevant. If they wanted to collect the demographic data of the father, provided that info was available, I'd be all for it.

[nc4bo]

83. Why is publically posting abortion information even relevant.

I guess that's my really my point.

What they are doing is a waste of time and money that could better be used elsewhere.

[elehhhhna]

71. 2) Country in which abortion is performed WTH???

They have an obligation to report this to the state even if it's done outside the US? Are you kidding?!!!

[mudderfudder77]

75. ...

...

[conflictgirl]

78. That was a typo, it was supposed to be county.

nt

[tomm2thumbs]

88. I see nothing posted about the father - as if they had nothing at all to do with it

I guess they don't want it reported when senior public officials in Oklahoma father children with their daughters in the backrooms of the Statehouse

[The Straight Story]

99. I thought we didn't want fathers to have anything to do with the decision anyway?

:shrug:

[Thothmes]

114. That is normally the mantra around here

[AlbertCat]

98. So the mother can lie about everything but #1. Why not?

BTW.... are they asking party affiliation?


And who cares about all that info anyway? Why should we know all that about the patient's mother? What has she got to do with it anyway? :evilgrin:

[caseymoz]

102. I will have to see if lying about it is supposed to be a crime.

What it is mainly meant to do is 1) creep the woman out; 2) test the Conservatives' brand-new Bushified Supreme Court, even if Sotomayor might thwart it.

[MadMaddie]

105. Don't forget that one of the questions asks if the woman is

a government employee!!

Imagine the form floating around the office and is being touched by 3 to 4 people and the rumors start. Can you say hostle work place and intimidation.

This is stunning!

[Generator]

106. That must be county not country

Though maybe they are confused and think it's 1591 and the country is Oklahomaville. (maybe they think they seceded-and what century is this anyhay? Of course they don't have to go through nine months of pregnancy and then feed another unwanted mouth-so it's a small price to pay,except for the only point yes is to SHAME the woman-though I think it could lead to murder. Stalk you down and kill you, and why not-to them you are a murderer and the fetus is the only "real" life.

Which is why "pro-life" is always pro-death, the only life that ever matters is that fetus.

[ehrnst]

116. What about HIPPA??? (NT)

[ehrnst]

117. The only recourse? Publish all Viagra recipients, and anyone treated for ED. (NT)

[Roshea1956]

120. OK Ab Law

Unbelieveable! This is like communism, no rights. Your viewed as cattle. This is a dangerous initiative! I bet we will allow legal suicide, and/or euthanasia. Would you like your worth as a human only worthy to be a donater of organs or stem cells, blood, skin graft? Even today when a individual dies nurses call the medical examiner to have the dead evaluated for their potential to be used as donors. We do not tell the families. Don't think so? I'm the one who calls when a person dies. Well, we are entering the New World Order whether you accept it or not, the world population must be decreased, yet our medical pro's have increased our years now to live in the 90's because of medication we have available to us. Your seen as one two many today. So who is going to die for more room of the world? I ain't. How abt you? That's why I believe we are going to have another world war. The leaders of the world would see that this would decrease world pop. This objective is one of many of the New World Union by the way.

[Autumn]

128. That is fucking disgraceful

:nuke: What a waste of tax dollars.

[defendandprotect]

130. The new "Hammer of Witches" . . . ?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

131. A state judge should be able to issue a permanent injunction, if asked to do so.

That would work. This is unconstitutional on its face.

:wtf:

[jmowreader]

132. Someone went to a great deal of trouble to produce a completely unconstitutional law

I will bet, if you were to go through the sponsorship of this bill, you'd find one of the national anti-woman groups like Operation Save America was behind it. But seriously, I don't think even Samuel Alito is going to ratify the constitutionality of a law that demands the woman seeking abortion services reveal how many times she's been pregnant before this one so they can post the data on the Internet. I also enjoy how they want to know the race, age and years of education of the patient--"65 percent of our abortion seekers are uneducated black sluts who can't keep their legs together seeing as how they've been knocked up an average of 7.8 times each." How they missed "number of previous abortions" is beyond me.

If this gets approved, expect the Fort Smith-Van Buren, Arkansas, metro area to become the abortion capital of America.

[xc8mip]

142. It's about statistic !

How does this law restrict abortions? , seems that Oklahoma lawmakers are attempting to limit unwanted pregnancies , If somebody had sixth or tenth abortion perhaps it's a time to take hard look at yourself?