Court Throws Out NRA Lawsuit Against Pittsburgh Gun Trafficking Law

[villager]

Source: Brady.Org

Court Throws Out NRA Lawsuit
Against Pittsburgh Gun Trafficking Law




Pittsburgh, PA – Senior Judge R. Stanton Wettick of the Pennsylvania Court of Common Pleas of Allegheny County today threw out the National Rifle Association’s lawsuit against the City of Pittsburgh which sought to strike down the city’s ordinance to prevent gun trafficking by requiring the reporting of lost or stolen guns. The Brady Center’s Legal Action Project argued the case in court and is representing Pittsburgh pro bono.

Daniel Vice, Senior Attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, who argued in court on behalf of Pittsburgh, said, “We’re pleased the court threw out the NRA’s baseless lawsuit. The NRA should end its hypocrisy in claiming to support enforcing the laws on the books and then suing to strike down common sense gun laws. It’s too easy for dangerous criminals to get deadly weapons.”

Judge Wettick agreed with the Brady Center’s arguments that the NRA and individual gun owners lacked standing to bring the case. The law the court upheld today requires that gun owners notify police when their gun is lost or stolen, which aids police and law-abiding gun owners by enabling police to quickly investigate and retrieve stolen guns. The ordinance also prevents gun traffickers from falsely claiming that their guns were “stolen” after guns they illegally sold are recovered at crime scenes and traced back to them.

Stolen guns represent a significant source of trafficked guns, with 500,000 guns stolen from private citizens each year. About one of every six trafficked guns are guns stolen from residences. Guns are stolen in Pennsylvania at a rate of 12 guns per 1,000 households.

Pittsburgh is one of eight cities and towns in Pennsylvania that has enacted a law requiring the reporting of lost or stolen guns. The Brady Center has stated that it will assist pro bono any Pennsylvania jurisdiction in defending these laws against NRA challenges.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=1164

[villager]

1. Pittsburgh Tribune Review's story, appearing minutes later:

Judge tosses NRA's challenge to city's missing gun ordinance

By Bobby Kerlik
TRIBUNE-REVIEW

An Allegheny County judge this morning dismissed a National Rifle Association legal challenge to Pittsburgh's lost-or-stolen gun ordinance.

The NRA and four Pittsburgh gun owners sued the city in April over an ordinance requiring gun owners to notify police within 24 hours if their firearm is lost or stolen or within 24 hours of discovering a firearm is missing.

Common Pleas Judge R. Stanton Wettick ruled that since none of the gun owners have been affected by the ordinance, they lack legal standing to sue the city, noting that "a court may intervene only where this is actual harm."


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_634637.html

[Celtic Merlin]

17. The Pittsburgh Trib is SUCH a right-wing RAG...

The owner, one Richard Mellon Scaife, is a hardcore right winger.

Google his name or check out his Wikipedia entry - he's a nasty little bastard.

If you want to quote a Pittsburgh newspaper, go for the Post-Gazette. They're much nicer people.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[villager]

19. uh, that's not an *editorial* from the Trib...

n/t

[Celtic Merlin]

31. It need not be an editorial from the Trib for it to be reported with slant.

That's their way. I swear to you that even their news reporting is served up with a hard right-wing slant.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. I live very near Pittsburgh right now. I receive the Sunday edition of the Trib. I know what I'm talking about. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is a much better newspaper.

Are you from Western Pennsylvania?

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[villager]

32. so the judge actually ruled the opposite way, and we're being faked out?

n/t

[Celtic Merlin]

33. PLEASE quote the words I typed which stated that bullshit lie.

Seriously. Quote me word-for-word where I typed that stupid lie.

If you can't, retract and apologize.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[villager]

43. You've gone off the rails here -- are you saying the ruling didn't happen

because the paper reporting the news item is owned by a rightwinger?

[Celtic Merlin]

45. Again, implying that I am saying something I didn't say.

Go back to my original comment. Find the words I typed. Then, QUOTE MY WORDS where that implication is made.

I notice that you could NOT respond to my second comment - the one challenging you to quote the LIE you claim I typed.

You're an asshole. Fuck off.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[villager]

2. dupe

website a tad glitchy this a.m.?

[groundloop]

3. Damned liberal activist judges....

Always making law themselves. This is a sure sign they'll be coming to take your guns away any day now.

:sarcasm:

[atreides1]

4. As a gun owner

I don't have a problem with this law. The only people who should have a problem are gun owners who didn't get their guns legally in the first place.

[villager]

5. exactly-- and yet, led by the nose and the NRA, many were opposed to it...

n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

15. I think it has something to do with how the law was presented.

Many people supporting the overturning of the law framed it as being required to report the theft within 24h of the theft, which of course, could be impossible if you were out of town.

But actually it requires reporting within 24h of discovering the theft. (which could be problematic, still, if your neighbor calls it in, and you're out of town and unable to inventory and check your serial number records) Which is much more reasonable.

[geckosfeet]

16. Within 24 hours of discovery. How would you report something you don't know about?

What a silly ass waste of time argument to put in front of a judge.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Well, if my neighbor calls me on vacation to tell me my house was broken into

I have 'discovered the theft' technically. But I might not know exactly what is gone at that point. I'd have to do an inventory of the whole house. Then check serial numbers.

[geckosfeet]

26. Yes. When you get home. The best you can do while on vacation is call the

police and say that it is likely that some guns were stolen from your house. Once you get home you do an inventory. That way you don't take the heat when the bad guys get caught using your gun when committing a crime.

[No Elephants]

35. No. You have discovered a break in. Actually, not even that. You have heard about a break in.

You have not yet discovered any theft, let alone the theft of a particular gun. When you do discover the theft of the gun, the clock starts running.

And do you know that the law places upon you an obligation to search your home to determine if a gun has been stolen? Or are you assuming that?

[No Elephants]

34. What does it say about the positions of the RW that the only way they can get support for them is to

lie about everyone else's positions?

"I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
Adlai Stevenson Campaign statement in Fresno, California (10 September1952)

Almost 57 years later and nothing's changed. Republicans: still lying after all these years.

[geckosfeet]

8. Why should they care. They are not about to report it when their gun 'goes missing'.

[geckosfeet]

6. Can't imagine why the NRA would oppose this law. Technically, it's not "gun control".

Oh.

Wait.

The law the court upheld today requires that gun owners notify police when their gun is lost or stolen, which aids police and law-abiding gun owners by enabling police to quickly investigate and retrieve stolen guns. The ordinance also prevents gun traffickers from falsely claiming that their guns were “stolen” after guns they illegally sold are recovered at crime scenes and traced back to them.

Stolen guns represent a significant source of trafficked guns, with 500,000 guns stolen from private citizens each year. About one of every six trafficked guns are guns stolen from residences. Guns are stolen in Pennsylvania at a rate of 12 guns per 1,000 households.

[No Elephants]

36. Good point. Thanks.

[DonP]

7. Nice Republican run organization you support

Paul Helmke - GOP; Sara Brady - GOP; Jim Brady - GOP

But, then again, you have to feel a little pity for them since they have had their ass handed to them in court for the last few years. Especially the Heller vs. DC decision. An occasional misleading press release and local court battle is about all they have to show for the multi-million $ the Joyce Foundation have poured into the Brady group.

If individual citizens don't have standing to challenge a law, then who does?

They threw a couple of the earlier versions of the Heller case out too. Eventually they will have to actually consider and rule on the issue and it may find it way to SCOTUS, like the Chicago case that Brady "won" will.

Be sure to say hi to all your little republican buddies for us and send them a nice big check.

[geckosfeet]

9. Sure. And you be sure to kiss some more NRA behind for us too.

[onehandle]

10. Strawman. nt

[fascisthunter]

44. that talking point won't help your cause

since the NRA is right wing.

[gratuitous]

11. Gee, why wouldn't the NRA want lost or stolen guns reported?

As soon as I read the synopsis of the case, my first thought was "standing." And sure enough, the frivolous NRA lawsuit was tossed for exactly that reason. Unless the NRA is now claiming that instead of representing all those law-abiding gun owners they actually represent the folks who use firearms to terrorize society. In which case, the NRA might have standing to bring suit after all.

[Deep13]

22. Did something just bump me knee? *Kick!*

Just a reflex, I guess. I can't see how this law can possibly be unconstitutional.

[HopeHoops]

12. Mine are in the fire safe

Well, other than the shotgun - it doesn't fit.

[Old Codger]

13. good reason

I am a very definite pro gun person, I own several and I have concealed carry permits, I personally think the NRA is one of the worst representatives of gun owners there could be, they fight against common sense laws, that is so ignorant that I cannot really express how stupid it is. In doing so they cause a total misunderstanding of what I consider your average normal gun person and give fuel to the anti gun lobby by being so intransigent.

[geckosfeet]

14. Have to agree. The NRA speaks with forked tongue.

[villager]

18. thanks for weighing in, Old Codger, and balancing out all the pro-NRA apologias...

n/t

[Deep13]

23. I know. I wish there was another advocacy group who was not so crazy...

...and ultraconservative. But they occupy the field. Pretty much all shooting clubs require NRA membership.

[geckosfeet]

27. One I am considering requires GOAL or NRA. I joined GOAL - lesser of two

fanatical groups. At least they are more focused on local events.

[Old Codger]

28. I know one

As far as I know the Medford oregon club does not. Also I am lucky enough to live in the boonies and can go out in my back woods area and shoot all I want...:)

[No Elephants]

37. I wish unions were that lucky.

[Deep13]

20. If I discovered one of my guns was missing, I would be frantic!

I would be on the phone with the cops immediately because I would be afraid the gun was stolen to be used in a crime. Also, I would want to document the fact that I no longer had it because I would not want to be blamed for the use of the gun in that crime.

A 24 hour reporting period is not unreasonable. I would call as soon as I was sure I did not leave it on the cleaning table or something. I really can't see any Second Amendment implications here.

[No Elephants]

38. People can always report sooner than the law requires without getting into trouble. Itt's only

reporting too late that would be a problem.

[krispos42]

21. If the clock starts running at the time of discovery, then this law probably isn't an issue

I haven't checked my guns in several weeks. Presumebly they're still there.


I'll be interested to see if it helps any. Probably won't be noticable unless it's enacted on a state-wide basis.

[Vidar]

24. Good for Judge Wettick.

[Wednesdays]

29. K&R

:kick:

[meow2u3]

30. NRA = No Reasoning Allowed

This is an organization that acts irrationally and would rather see criminals and terrorists packing heat before favoring any sane gun regulations that serve to to protect the people from the criminal element. Either that, or some of the NRA big shots are closet terrorist sympathizers.

[pipoman]

39. I probably would support such a law

unless there is something missing in these stories that I haven't considered. In addition to traffickers, I would think that straw purchasers would be in line for prosecution. Federal law prohibits people from buying a gun for another person with a few gifting exceptions. It has to be common when local authorities track down a straw purchaser, they are often met with, 'that gun was stolen months ago', even when the person who is caught with it is their brother in law. This may may it easier to prosecute these crimes at the local level, the feds are often not inclined to spend the time or money to prosecute straw purchases (which is sad).

[X_Digger]

40. Might help to identify, but doubt it'd necessarily help with prosecution..

I could see a bunch of straw purchasers reporting stolen guns ("Must've left my house/car unlocked.") Police would tsk at the wave of home/car break-ins. (Burden of proof would still fall on the police to prove that a person knowingly sold a gun to a felon.)

[pipoman]

41. It would add burglary

to the charges or may add making a false report to a straw purchase charge if the truth came out later...I see no harm.

[X_Digger]

42. Agreed, no harm.. just can't see a lot of good, either. n/t