Deep Cuts Could Reshape California

[hack89]

Source: New York Times

In a special election on May 19, voters rejected a batch of measures on increasing taxes, borrowing funds and reapportioning state money that were designed to close a multibillion-dollar budget gap.

The cuts Mr. Schwarzenegger has proposed to make up the difference, if enacted by the Legislature, would turn California into a place that in some ways would be unrecognizable in modern America: poor children would have no health insurance, prisoners would be released by the thousands and state parks would be closed.

Nearly all of the billions of dollars in cuts the administration has proposed would affect programs for poor Californians, although prisons and schools would take hits, as well.

“Government doesn’t provide services to rich people,” Mike Genest, the state’s finance director, said on a conference call with reporters on Friday. “It doesn’t even really provide services to the middle class.” He added: “You have to cut where the money is.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/us/31calif.html?_r=1&hp

[AllentownJake]

1. This is going to be the trigger for the Depression

If these cuts are made, California's economy is going to totally collapse. If California collapses, it will have a major domino effect on the rest of the country.

[caseymoz]

16. Dark humor: I wonder if the Okies will be returning to Oklahoma?

Then the millennial depression will come full circle.

I agree with you that this will cause a catastrophe, and not just in California. It's little consolation that the Republican Party will be doomed after this. They're cutting of taxes and "small government" platform will be put to the test in California. We all know how this ad hoc "experiment" is going to end. When the public experiences what happens, the Repub party will history.

[Whoa_Nelly]

24. Dark humor aside...

Am 3rd generation Oklahoman living in CA.
Am moving back to OKlahoma in three weeks because I have a better chance of finding a teaching job there.
Got the pink slip this year here in CA, and no re-hire anywhere here for me because am at the top of my salary schedule.

Haven't lived in OK since 1970, but have visited a lot over the years, so still have many friends there.


So, dark humor aside, am predicting an exodus of CA citizens leaving the state while they can.
It's bad here.
Really bad.

[elleng]

32. Very telling, not remotely humorous as you know.

CA has to adjust to its unusual 'initiative'-provoked situation, and the rest of us do, too. CA won't be the 'center of all things,' but as an Easterner, I've never thought it was.

Good luck to you in OK.

[Patchuli]

52. We've been "adjusting" for quite a while now

in case you didn't know. Not all of us agreed with the stupid initiatives or the whole Schwarzenegger misadventure either. I'd like to import him to your state, whatever that may be. As for folks who are giving up here, GOOD!!! GO the hell home. Especially in education. There are plenty of Californians who should work in California schools. I'd like to see my state go back to what it was before we were overrun with people from other states.

California will always be the center for the Californians who were born here and lived here always. The rest of you should just be glad that we will still be a bread basket of food for the nation.

Stick that in your snark pipe and smoke it! :smoke:

[caseymoz]

54. Depopulation in California is going to make it look like "Blade Runner."

It's not the only place. I think Las Vegas might become a ghost town.

[Patchuli]

82. Bullshit.

Where's your profile, BTW?

[caseymoz]

84. It's up now.

But I have trouble comprehending your hostility. Is it all because my profile was hidden?

Now, to lend some credence to my statement. Las Vegas is suffering terribly from the housing bubble and credit crunch. But what's really serious for its survival is that tourism is drying up, and people have places close to home where they can gamble, and Vegas was overcharging for the privilege. We face a depression. Those cause social upheavals.

That's why I conjectured that it might not survive. What does it have now?

For California looking like "Blade Runner," well, I do think Los Angeles and suburbs are in danger of being hollowed out at the rate things are going.

Now, just to tell you, things look bad. It looks like we are teetering toward depression.

[Patchuli]

91. I am a native of Los Angeles

and now live in northern California. It's pretty tough here, just like everywhere else. There are too many damn people down south for me these days. If they want to get the heck out of our state, that's excellent.

I don't know enough about you to be hostile but why hide your profile?

[caseymoz]

92. Bullshit is pretty brusque.

Actually, I don't remember why I hid it, and I certainly didn't know it was. There was a reason i did it temporarily, and I can't remember what it was. It will come to me sometime later in the week, I'm certain.

I know that sounds like bullshit, but I swear it's true.

[caseymoz]

55. Dark humor is best when it's based on fact, but it's also sadder and scarier.

I knew that there's a drive to "abandon ship."

[Zynx]

44. While this will obviously make life miserable for thousands, the size of the cuts

is less than 1% of California economic output.

[caseymoz]

56. Didn't think of that.

But it's the continuing "tax rebellion" in California that prompted this. I have doubt that Arnold did as much as he could before this. It will bring things to a head and commit Conservatives to another failed policy: tax cuts.

Unfortunately, we all know that's going to end in tragedy.

[caseymoz]

57. doubled post, please remove.

But it's the continuing "tax rebellion" in California that prompted this. I have doubt that Arnold did as much as he could before this. It will bring things to a head and commit Conservatives to another failed policy: tax cuts.

Unfortunately, we all know that's going to end in tragedy.

[Hannah Bell]

86. The cuts themselves. But there's a ripple effect. Compounded by the recession-come-depression.

http://www.bls.gov/mls/

Friday, May 22, 2009


MASS LAYOFFS IN APRIL 2009


Employers took 2,712 mass layoff actions in April that resulted in
the separation of 271,226 workers, seasonally adjusted, as measured by
new filings for unemployment insurance benefits during the month, the
Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported
today. Each action involved at least 50 persons from a single employer.

The number of mass layoff events in April decreased by 221 from the prior
month, and the number of associated initial claims decreased by 28,162.
Compared to last year, the number of mass layoff events and associated
initial claims more than doubled....

Of the 4 census regions, the Midwest registered the highest number
of initial claims in April due to mass layoffs (72,383), followed by
the West (65,580) and the South (62,714). (See table 5.)

California recorded the highest number of initial claims filed due
to mass layoff events in April with 43,675. The states with the next
highest number of mass layoff initial claims were New York (24,349),
Illinois (17,550), and Pennsylvania (15,378). (See table 6.)

Forty-five states and the District of Columbia registered over-the-year
increases in initial claims associated with mass layoffs, led by New
York (+16,810), California (+15,503), and Illinois (+12,904).

In 2009, 25 states reached program highs in average weekly initial claims
for the month of April--Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida,
Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missis-
sippi, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, South Carolina,
South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and
Wyoming.

The report on Mass Layoffs in May 2009 is scheduled to be released on
Tuesday, June 23.

[Hannah Bell]

85. it's beginning to look like collapse is desired by some parties.

judging by their actions & the way they pretend there's no alternative.

[msongs]

2. start by closing all services to "red" counties nt

[pkdu]

3. excellent idea...start with Orange! n/t

[pinto]

10. I see your point, yet there are a bunch of families in OC that will be hurt by cuts

as is. Lots of lower income / minimum wage employees in Anaheim, for example. The perception that OC is an homogeneous, white, upper income county and worth ignoring is self defeating if we are going to make changes in CA.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

13. you messing with peoples illusions,

It is so much easier to hate us when you think were three million wealthy Nixon worshiping douches just like the characters in Caddyshack and the O.C.

[KamaAina]

18. Two of my all-time favorite human beings are in OC

one, some of you may possibly remember; the other is my former employer.

Both have disabilities, and neither really needs to be thrown over the side just now.

[shanti]

20. exactly

santa ana too. i grew up in the oc and still have family there. they are just scraping by, and they are not alone.

[bluestateguy]

37. Very true

That characterization of Orange County is 20 years old.

[xxqqqzme]

69. Exactly! Who do they think cleans all the

'amusement' parks after the lights go out?

Our DFA group, twice a year, decides where our volunteer time should be concentrated. We just completed 6 months volunteering at the food bank.

One in 6 Orange County residents gets at least one meal a day from food moving through the food bank. That's over 500,000 people every day. Of that number, 40% are children. As of March, '09, Orange County's unemployment rate was 8.5%

Last Saturday, The OC Democratic Foundation had a luncheon w/ the state comptroller, John Chaing as the keynote speaker. He said the state has money to last until July 29th, then we're out of funds.

[krabigirl]

74. Yep, Actually, a great portion of OC is Latino, Asian, and Middle Eastern.

Demorgraphics are changing quickly here. Also, there ARE liberals here. My French husband and I would prefer to live elsewhere, but his business started at UC Irvine and is now doing well. Don't paint OC with the same brush.

[pinto]

4. This isn't a "red county / blue county" situation. It's statewide.

from the same article -

Some of the proposed cuts are clearly saber rattling on the governor’s part, but there is a nervous acceptance among lawmakers, advocates for the poor and outside budget experts that the state is out of money and time.

If lawmakers sign off on closing the health insurance program for children whose families make too much to qualify for Medicaid, California would be the first state in the nation to close the popular program. Begun in 1997, the program, known as S-CHIP, reimburses states at a higher rate than for Medicaid to deliver health insurance to children and teenagers. With the cuts to Medicaid, the state would probably increase its number of uninsured people by nearly 2 million, the California Budget Project says.

“As the nation is debating how to move forward to provide broader health care coverage,” said Diane Rowland, the executive vice president of the Kaiser Family Foundation, “for a state to be scaling back coverage for children would be a major challenge. This program means a lot to working families. It is well run and well liked by people on both sides of the aisle.”

[pinto]

11. Lots of people in "red" counties benefit from State programs that may be cut.

It's hyperbole, I realize, yet too simplistic to frame this situation in those political terms. These are statewide programs.

[NYC_SKP]

12. Wrong, sorry, poor is poor--Orange county poor are not different.

I don't know what you think that would accomplish...

[DBoon]

30. charge tolls on state highways in those areas?

Start closing state beaches?

Cancel all state funded highway maintenance?

Why should only the poor suffer?

[slackmaster]

64. Raise the fine for driving while talking on a hand-held cell phone to $1,000

And enforce it aggressively everywhere.

[Whoa_Nelly]

33. That's silly

People I love here in a very red central CA county, would be hurt financially.
There's a lot of entrepreneurship here in these central valley small farm towns.
The corporate Ag here is already hurting people.

[XemaSab]

5. I can't believe this lie is being repeated in The Times

:banghead:

We did NOT vote down tax increases. They weren't on the ballot.

[hack89]

6. What lie? nt

[XemaSab]

8. Updated

n/t

[Old Coot]

7. What lie is that? nt

[XemaSab]

9. Updated.

n/t

[caseymoz]

58. What the hell do you mean by "updated?"

Give us a link, please. It's possible in this journalistic environment to be extremely mis-informed. What was on the ballot? I know this has been going on for months and Arnold was hitting the wall with the legislature. So give us something that gives us a background. I'll look at your journal.

[xxqqqzme]

70. I know,I caught that too.

It really pisses me off.

[truedelphi]

14. Three points the media will not let surface.

One) Not one of the items on the ballot looked good to most people.
Example: Shift mental health funds over to the General Fund? Why? There is very little money for Mental Health - so why shift THAT? (On the other hands, prison guards are paid exorbitant amounts, why not have them take a cut and shift THAT amount over to the General Funds?)

Two: Federal Laws never enforced, hold the Federal government accountable to reimburse California for billions of dollars that have been spent over the last twenty years, in terms of services provided to immigrants. Every so often, some governor will connect with Washington and get a paltry 5% of the monies owed. But we would be fiscally healthy if the damn LAW was followed.

Three: The 15 Billion dollars sitting in the deficit column represents less than one fifth of ONE PERCENT of the ten trillion dollars given to the Wall Street crowd, compliments of We The People. 'Ahnold' now talks about going to Washington and/or Wall Street and begging for a LOAN for some eight billion. What is wrong with this picture?

[Confusious]

19. Bet you arnie wishes

He got that money back from Enron right about now. But thats republicans for you, one bad decision after another.

[shanti]

21. the measure were VERY confusing

many people probably threw up their hands and said screw it.

[caseymoz]

62. That is rotten.

The second one needs a solution, and Californians should have marched on Washington long before this. You could take the Fed to court and win, but if it's not paying already, it will probably be just as irresponsible about a court judgment, I'm afraid. So, the only way to do it would be a march on Washington to demand the funds. There should be a nationwide movement, because if it's doing this to California, it would probably be doing this to all other States as well.

California is a cash-cow for the feds, in terms of how much tax revenue is collected from the state. It deserves fair treatment.

BTW, the only way to get that information out would be for the citizens to be informed. Believe me, if Californians face these cuts, they're going to want to know why.

[taught_me_patience]

94. Right on.

It's time the Federal government gave something back to the state. They've been sucking our teat for too long.

[krabigirl]

76. Yep.

[Towlie]

15. I think voters feel they're calling a bluff. They don't believe such measures will really be taken.

[Stargleamer]

17. My state is becoming like Alabama n/t

[surfinshell]

22. who the hell voted on this?

I didn't get a vote. Not raising taxes is part of what got us where we are today.

[MADem]

23. Did you go to the polls and cast a ballot on May nineteenth? NT

[mchill]

25. My counterparts in California State government

make 3 to 5 times as much as I do working in California as a federal employee. This isn't true in all state agencies or all state jobs, but for firefighters, this is true. There is fat to trim if Arnold can find it. I do not put school teachers in this category, at all.

[MADem]

27. Did you want to tell me that, or someone else? nt

[aquart]

38. You want to short firefighters IN CALIFORNIA???

Brilliant plan. You rent?

[mchill]

42. I don't want to short firefighters, but don't you think it is ridiculous

that those in Calfire (formerly CDF) are making 3-4 times as much as a California school teacher with the same tenure, or the 3-5 times as much as their equivalent in Federal service living in the same town and often working in side by side fighting fire?

[WriteDown]

47. Seems like there may be a TAD more danger

in being a firefighter than being a teacher. Also, there probably are more physical fitness requirements.

[mchill]

49. And no education requirement like teachers (5 years of post high school education)

Also, federal firefighters leave the USFS, NPS, BOR (no positive education requirement) and go work at Calfire, as I said, for 4-5 times the salary. They do exactly the same job..actually, they have it tougher, when a federal firefighter goes to a Wildland fire, they sleep in a fire camp, on the ground in a tent. Calfire has such a strong union, they mandate their firefighters to sleep in a motel/hotel, etc.

[WriteDown]

50. That's what strong unions are for...

As far as teachers go, they pretty much no what they are in for when they decide to take that career path. Hopefully, their own union can help get them some of the salary increases that you are advocating.

[mchill]

79. And Federal employees living in California too? As I said, we have firefighters working

side by side with California firefighters making 1/4 to 1/5 the wages. The disparity is large and it's not just about raising the salary of others to match, some of this disparity comes from a series of law suits over the years that overdid the wages of firefighters in California government. I'm sorry, I don't think a Calfire employee should make more than a surgeon, for example.

[WriteDown]

88. Overdid the wages of firefighters?

Why when people are speaking about union employees do they always say that wages are too high? Sheesh.

[mchill]

90. I am a Union member and federal employee....

Why should someone working for the State of California make so much more than my federal coworkers, doing the same job, living in the same town, across the board? Think about it, these federal employees are paying California taxes to pay someone doing the same job as them but their Californian equivalents are getting 3-5 times more. I don't hear any of you here in Democratic Underground calling for pay raises for federal workers, and I can tell you in the working ranks of the federal system, there are a lot of low paying jobs requiring higher education...in most cases with pay worse than a California school teacher with similar education requirements and tenure.

I'm not against Unions, I am a member myself (though Federal employee unions cannot negotiate wages). For that matter, why not include non-Union employees in your statement? Some California State employees are getting much more than a reasonable amount given the qualifications required for their jobs. I'm usually the first to say I'm willing to pay more taxes for appropriate government services, but when I see the amount of money being made by Calfire employees, specifically, while I pay their wages in my California taxes, while my federal coworkers must go get other jobs after their mandatory retirement, or even while working (yes, this happens a lot), I say California firefighters, specifically Calfire, can take a pay cut.

[xxqqqzme]

71. Not raising taxes is exactly how we got here.

All the rethugs had taken the grover norquist oath to vote against tax increases. Much of today's problem can be traced back to prop 13. and allowing corporate land holdings to escape any increased assessment.

We have to get rid of the 2/3 rule (also part of Prop 13!) and term limits have to be revisited because now we have people in government that don't understand how it works.

AND we absolutely have to rein in the out of control initiative process.

[joeglow3]

73. Amen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3900155&mesg_id=3902595

[nolabels]

83. Actually it started probably more than a century ago

The careful tooling the SCOTUS has done to give so much control to feds when it come to commerce is how we got here. They have also with such rulings at the same time reduced the individual states control of out of state entities. The tax revolt is valid but wildly misguided in most places

Most of us middle income people in the state pay above a combined rate 50% of our income to taxes. This to subsidize the well being of the corporate state that resides here. They are like a giant parasite that is impossible to extricate because the reigns to control them have been legislated and opinionated out of our border


The best place for 10,000 lawyers is at the bottom of the sea

[Triana]

26. And Gray Davis did a worse job as Guv - HOW? n/t

[truedelphi]

35. Gray Davis somehow managed to be wise enough to put together a panel that

Got rid of MTBE, the Big Oil Companies' favorite substance.

As a total waste product that was mandated for use in the gasoline supply, they loved getting us motorists to PAY for the stuff.

David' Blue Ribbon panel refused to be bought out, and they saw to it that the truth about MTBE came out. As the panel head, John Froines, explained it "MTBE has no benefit to the gasoline, and carries a huge amount of risk."

Big Oil then put together a package of monies and recruited Ahnold to run as Republican candidate, after they got Davis thrown out.

[Triana]

43. Figures Pig Oil would be behind it. (no offense to pigs) n/t

[xxqqqzme]

72. steroid boy didn't run after, he ran in the same recall

election - if you voted for the recall then you voted for one of the hundreds to replace Davis.

[Iggo]

28. "...if enacted by the Legislature..."

Just sayin...

[tomm2thumbs]

29. All that same sex marriage money leaving the state - such a shame nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

31. California is the first domino. It will only get worse from here.

[blue_onyx]

51. I wouldn't say California is the first

MI has been in recession for 8 years and is about to be pushed into a depression starting tomorrow.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NBachers]

36. So maybe it's time to re-explore growing hemp. Again.

Turn California's agricultural dynamo into a hemp-producing industry. Hemp products can be grown here, processed here, and made right here in California.

Oooops- wait a minute- some people may secetly grow marijuana in the hemp fields. Can't have anyone creating any enjoyment, can we?

[quaker bill]

39. California has the money

they just need to collect it. Curiously, following the California model, we passed a prop 13 like thing here in FL. It took us a few years to get about it, so the impacts have not been quite as large, but our State is now broke too, with little hope for it to end in the near future.

It was all part of the Norquist plan, revise the tax codes to put State revenues on a glidepath toward increasingly tight budgets. The people will almost always pass a tax cut and nearly never pass a tax increase. Eventually government shrinks because the revenue is simply not there.

There is a simple answer, the people will have to choose to tax themselves, Norquist and his conservative ilk are betting this will not happen. So far, the evidence backs him up. How bad does it have to get for people to choose higher taxes? It seems that in California, this experiment is being run.

[hack89]

40. Where is this money?

are you talking about uncollected taxes or money that has yet to be taxed?

[joeglow3]

59. Property Taxes for one

You live in a high cost of living area, where almost all costs are higher than other areas of the country. The salaries you pay your government employees are higher due to this higher cost of living. Yet, people think locking in property taxes at amounts equal to lower cost of living areas is feasible.

[slackmaster]

60. Our high personal income tax more than makes up for our stable, predictable property tax

The problem is not that working middle-class Califonians pay too little in taxes.

[joeglow3]

63. Buffett disagrees

And, if you run the numbers, it does not back you up. If my house is undervalued by $250,000, I am paying about $5,000 less (assuming a 2% property tax rate). A million dollars undervalued is $20,000 a year.

[slackmaster]

65. Buffet is free to pay more in taxes if he thinks he isn't paying his fair share

A large majority of houses are worth less than than anything he owns.

How "undervalued" is your house right now, with the drop in prices over the last two years? Do you wish your property tax had been locked in to its market value in, say, September 2006?

[joeglow3]

66. ????????

In our state (and most others that I am aware of), the assessed value is updated every year. In Nebraska, ours has to be between 92% and 100% of the fair market value. So, in response to your question, while Nebraska has not seen the downturn of California, my assessed value has gone down.

[slackmaster]

77. The assessed value is updated in California every year, HOWEVER...

The increase is limited to 2% per year, which protects people from drastic changes when their property happens to go up a lot in value. Fair market value goes up and down, generally up in the long run. I suspect that property values in Nebraska are a lot more stable and predictable than they are in California.

That 2% is less than inflation, but property tax revenues overall have generally increased because more and more property is developed every year.

[Xithras]

78. Heard a proposal the other day to tie the Prop 13 cap to the inflation rate

By tying it to inflation, the pace of tax increases would at least keep up with the cost of living. In 2006, doing this would have led to a 3.25% increase in taxes for homes below their tax cap. And remember, if the tax rate already equals 1% of the homes value, your taxes wouldn't go up at all.

[slackmaster]

80. That's a whole lot more reasonable than the system Prop. 13 replaced

It's certainly worth considering.

[Xithras]

81. Agree. I don't oppose 13, but I think it needs tweaking. That's a fair tweak.

The assumption is that state costs will generally rise in line with inflation, and this system ensures that the state at least has the funds to keep pace with inflation.

Keep in mind that under the current system, property tax receipts could only increase by 2% from an existing property in 2006, even though inflation was at 3.25%. On my home, the state lost ground by a measure of 1.25% that one year alone. And we've been doing this since 1978. It's no wonder the state is broke. As the economy and cost of living climbs, the state falls further behind. Indexing it to inflation at least prevents us from losing ground.

[Hannah Bell]

87. the assessments don't even keep up with *inflation*? no wonder you have problems.

and no wonder so many billionaires in cali.

[slackmaster]

89. But salaries and the cost of items subject to sales tax should keep up with inflation

Property tax is just one source of income for the state, and it accounts for less than personal income tax or sales tax.

[natrat]

41. why should californians support other states with its federal taxes paid

if california contributes 1 dollar it should get that back, not the ridiculous 63 cents or whatever. While idaho or alabama pay 50 cents in fed taxes but get a dollar back. complete bullshit

[truedelphi]

45. Ask also why

After We The Sheeple have our monies offered to the Federal Reserve and Treasury, to the tune of over 10 trillion dollars, and in large part, those monies are distributed to Wall Street.

California's indebtedness is somewhere between 8 billion and fifteen billion. Even the higher of those two numbers is LESS than one fifth of ONE PERCENT of that ten trillion bucks!

But if we see any of that money, it will be because Ahnold goes to Washington and gets them to LOAN us that money back!

[Thothmes]

48. Why should I support other people

with my federal taxes paid? They are federal tax dollars. The federal government has the authority to spend them as they see fit. Some of those states have a greater need for federal support than California. Just like the Federal government taking my tax dollars and providing support for people that have a greater need than I.

[taught_me_patience]

93. Oh the fucking irony, given that the federal government

has been sucking the California teat to the tune of $50B every year.

[TaxCollector]

46. Why Pay It Back All?

Why doesn't California just repudiate its debts?

[Odin2005]

53. This is the death knell of the Republican Party

Ahhhnold can go terminate himself.

[slackmaster]

61. When Proposition 11 redistricting reform takes effect in 2012 it will be the death knell...

Of the stranglehold the "Incumbent Party" has on the legislature.

Less than 50% of California voters are registered as Democrats. Both the GOP and our party have been bleeding members for many years, with the exception of the last two or so. Declined to State is the fastest growing class of voters here. The percentage who are Democrats is lower now than it was in 1993.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_u.htm

[defendandprotect]

67. GOP"s dream of "third world America" . . .!!!

Go Schwarzenner fascism!!

[earth mom]

68. I am so glad I left California 10 years ago! It was fucked up then and has only gotten worse.

It's beautiful, the weather is great, but that does NOT make up for the traffic, the gangs and the lack of decent paying jobs.

It's sad because California was great in the 60s & 70s. :(

[krabigirl]

75. Meh, Those propositions were BS, if one actually read them.

They were all about shifting money AWAY from schools and public health facilities.

I am saddened about proposed cuts to schools and welfare programs, but the release of non-violent (read: possession of drugs/DUI) priosners is something I agree with! Enough of this prison state!!