Shenandoah teen admits in juvenile court his role in fatal beating of an illegal immigrant

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: AP

A Shenandoah teenager admitted in Schuylkill County Juvenile Court here today that he took part in the fatal beating of an illegal Mexican immigrant last summer.

Eighteen-year-old Brian Scully apologized for the July 12 fight that pitted several white Shenandoah teens against 25-year-old Luis Ramirez, who also was living the borough.

President Judge William E. Baldwin found Scully delinquent and ordered him to spend 90 days in a treatment center.

After that, the court will determine if Scully should spend additional time in detention. He could be kept in a detention center until he is 21.


Read more: http://www.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=139229

[AspenRose]

1. Is this the same case Color of Change sent the notice about recently?

[peacebird]

2. killed a man and gets 90 days with the possibility of 3 years more?

seems rather a light sentence?

[eggplant]

3. It sounded from the article that he was 17 at the time.

Thus the "detention until 21" part. I agree with you, however. I have a hard time imagining that this guy is going to see the light as a result of lighter sentencing.

[mike_c]

4. he's a juvie...

...and since I don't like to see juveniles tried as adults, I think the sentence is appropriate under the circumstances. I don't like revenge as justice either, so I hope his caseworkers make appropriate judgments about his motives and his real capacity for being a threat to his community in the future. If they do that right, he stands a chance at actual rehabilitation rather than becoming just another victim of the prison-industrial complex.

[SkyDaddy7]

6. DO WHAT!!!!!????

I understand the broken junvenile system but this so-called kid was 17 and he KILLED A MAN!! Not only should he be tried as an adult but he should be tried for a HATE CRIME!!

It would be much different if he was 12 but he he was 17! Activism breaks down when common sense breaks down!!

Is "under the circumstances" because the man was an illegal?

[mike_c]

7. no, "under the circumstances" is because he's a juvenile....

Being a juvenile is like being pregnant-- you either are or you aren't, and there shouldn't be any shades of in-between, IMO.

You obviously differ. That's fine. I agreed with the sentence. You apparently don't. That's fine too.

I don't like sending children to prison as adults, no matter how heinous their crime. I'm glad this boy has an opportunity to avoid that fate. I hope he makes good use of it.

[northernlights]

8. a 17 year old may technically be a juvenile

but is hardly a child. He killed somebody, he took somebody's life.

I don't think 4 years in detention comes close to appropriate.

Being juvenile may *legally* be black and white, but the reality of maturity, of impulse control, of rationality and comprehending the enormity of one's actions, and of understanding consequences are not black and white. You do not wake up on your 18th birthday and suddenly realize that murder is wrong, is permanent, and is irreversible.

[SkyDaddy7]

10. It does not matter with this person...

This person's mis guided activism has corrupted their freakin mind! This MAN got off because murdered an illegal...IT WAS A HATE CRIME!

[mike_c]

14. did I ever say it was not a hate crime...?

Of course it was a hate crime. And the perpetrator was a juvenile. What part of "I don't like to send children to prison as adults no matter how heinous their crime" can't you comprehend?

I'm getting really tired of this crap. We disagree about the nature of justice. Why can't you simply respect my views without resorting to ad hominem attacks? Sheesh.

[SkyDaddy7]

34. I apologize for jumping down your throat...

I share your concern about the broken system but there has to be common sense, especially when it comes to violent hate crimes. I thought maybe I was to hard on you last night and I know the law does not agree with you and that is all that really matters. I stand by my wish for you to apply common sense to cases that involve such violent acts. This is not the same as getting caught with 10lbs of weed.

[mike_c]

12. I agree totally-- I'd just do something different about it....

You do not wake up on your 18th birthday and suddenly realize that murder is wrong, is permanent, and is irreversible.

I could not agree more. For many, it takes much longer, and for some that understanding never comes. If we shield children for not understanding the nature of death, why don't we shield adults-- other than the demonstrably insane-- who don't fully grasp the nature of death? I would oppose imprisoning them, too-- or at least taking revenge upon them. Confinement for treatment is different.

My position ultimately boils down to two general principles. First, that justice should not be about revenge. It should seek to IMPROVE future outcomes for everyone concerned. Second, ineffective justice is not justice at all, or conversely, to be just, not only must a positive outcome be sought, but actions that don't achieve positive outcomes are ineffective and should be avoided if at all possible.

Most punishment is not very effective. We've been punishing people for committing crimes for many thousands of years. Has that had any discernible impact on crime? Do you think crime has diminished ANY AT ALL as a result of all those myriad punishments? I don't.

I'd prefer to see us look for solutions that actually work, rather than non-solutions that appeal to our lizard brain's thirst for revenge and punishment.

[SkyDaddy7]

9. What about the family of the illegal?

I have worked in the Criminal Justice for a defense lawyer so I know "kids" get raw deal sometimes but this was no KID!!! The only reason the YOUNG MAN is not in prison is because he MURDERED an illegal immagrant! A wrothless Mexican is why!!!!!!! Not because he was juvenile and you know this! I have to wonder where your common sense is? The 17 year old would not go straight to prison. They do not in Georgis and we have some of the most ass backward laws in the country!

Like I said, actvism breaks down when common sense does!

I would love for you to have to tell that load shit to the family of that man who murdered because he was worthless Mexican!!

SICK!!

[mike_c]

13. do NOT put words in my mouth, lawyer....

I have written long and against considerable opposition in this forum in favor of the rights of immigrants. Do a search and then take your feet out of your mouth.

I said what I meant. Read it again if you didn't understand it the first time.

[No Elephants]

49. Just for the record, the poster said he worked for a lawyer, not that he is or was a lawyer.

[Downwinder]

18. So why shouldn't he be required to take over support of the family?

He wouldn't be able to do that in prison. But someone is going to have to. We get off too much on the idea that Jail solves everything. There are other victims.

[imdjh]

21. read this - it explains more

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=136509

Ramirez regained his feet and ran after the four, but was knocked down again when Walsh hit him with a running blindside punch.

.....

Attorney Frederick Fanelli, who represented Piekarsky, said it was Scully who kicked an unconscious Ramirez and that the prosecution ignored witness Arielle Garcia's claim that she saw a white sneaker hit Ramirez's head while he was down.

......

Fanelli portrayed Ramirez as the aggressor, who threw the first punch. He also pointed out that the four teens who testified against Piekarsky changed their stories repeatedly before taking the stand.

....

At the fight scene, no one saw Donchak holding a metal bar, and the absence of any broken facial bones or cracked teeth proved Donchak did not strike Ramirez as viciously as prosecutors described, Markosky said.

Walsh has pleaded guilty to a federal civil rights charge and is awaiting sentencing. As a result, prosecutors dropped state charges including third-degree murder and ethnic intimidation.

[Vattel]

11. so on your view

a seventeen-year-old is no more responsible for his actions than a five-year-old because "being a juvenile is like being pregnant--you either are or you aren't, and there should be no shades of in-between." Thank God the law disagrees with you and does recognize shades of grey in its treatment of juveniles. 17-year-olds should be subject to greater legal liability than 12-year-olds or 5-year-olds because they are more responsible for their actions.

[mike_c]

15. yes, I agree that 17 year olds are generally more responsible...

...than five year olds, but I'm still pretty happy whenever a young person gets an opportunity to stay out of prison. I'm not a fan of revenge justice, and it's hard to understand how any good could come from sending a kid to prison as an adult.

[paulsby]

16. 5 yr olds CANNOT be held legally responsible at all

in many jurisdictions. mine included. fwiw.

under 9 is unprosecutable in WA state.

under 12, is presumed incapable of forming criminal inte.t a rebuttable presumption , burden is on the state.

so 9-12 is a rebuttable presumption

under 9, they could kill 20 people and you cannot prosecute

[imdjh]

43. Look for that to change

http://www.wdsu.com/news/19456501/detail.html

Monday night, 13-year-old Shaka Miller was killed. Officers accused a 14-year-old in the slaying.
Defense attorney Robert Jenkins is representing the young suspect and said it's hard to believe.
"Now we're seeing thefts, armed robbery, murder," Jenkins said.
Jenkins said teenage boys are being accused of same sex sexual assaults.
"We've never seen stuff seeing into the criminal justice system from our children," he said.
Jenkins said it could be attributed to a lack of education, societal pressure and a lack of parenting. What's more, if it's not controlled, Riley said he fears the worst.
"If we don't do something, in 10 years we'll have 9- and 10-year-olds shooting people," he said.

[paulsby]

44. i don;t think we'll be charging

8 yr olds, etc. with crimes any time soon, in WA. nor should we.

fwiw, even in the presumed incapable area (9-12) prosecutors almost always decline to prosecute.

which again, is how it should be.

i see a lot of parents call when their precious child is (allegedly) victimized by another child.

they want these little kids ARRESTED.

i'm like GET REAL

[imdjh]

46. People in general are calling for the head of anyone who has committed a crime against them/theirs

Around here, we keep hearing calls for drivers to be prosecuted for murder even in cases which don't involve DUI or gross indifference/negligence.

People become irrational. Some folks wanted to charge Jennifer Porter with murder, despite there being no allegation of intent to kill the kid with her car. They wanted her charged with murder because she left the scene without stopping and tried to hide- even though her stopping would have made no difference in the outcome.

Fortunately, we have "activist judges" who for the time being appear to be dedicated to the law and the constitution for the most part.

[paulsby]

47. look at the lori meiers case

an absolutely RIDICULOUS prosecution (the myspace suicide case)

the defendant is clearly a piece of garbage, but what they charged her with (glorified TOS violation) is ridiculous

[closeupready]

51. The group constituting those who are juvenile is certainly NOT fixed,

and varies between cultures and families and even as a function of current mores.

[EJSTES2005]

19. What ?

under the circumstances ? Guess if he beat some non-mexican to death this would be big news on Fucked News. Since he killed one of the "Enemy" nothing to see here. Keep fighting the good fight or our god for saken country will rot from the inside out. Give me a fucking break. Guess this wasn't a hate crime either with all the right wing racist anti immigrants ranting about mexicans taking over country bullshit either. 3 years for god damn MURDER add your OK with that ? Sure as I am breathing this polluted fucking air that if it was your son or daughter killed you would feel different. We have people in this country in jail for life over bullshit 3 strike laws and this little fucking punk gets 3 years ? We have 12 and 13 year olds in my back-wards as state of Florida in jail for life tried as adults for much less and this little fucker gets off with a god damn slap on the wrist ? He would get a longer sentence in every state then three years for getting caught selling an ounce of coke.

[mike_c]

41. read the thread...

eom

[IndianaGreen]

5. NY Times: Mexican’s Death Bares a Town’s Ethnic Tension

The OP deals with the youngest culprit. The older kids got a slap in the wrists. Here is more info:

Mexican’s Death Bares a Town’s Ethnic Tension

By SEAN D. HAMILL
Published: August 5, 2008

SHENANDOAH, Pa. — Crystal Dillman knows that four teenagers have been charged in the death of her fiancé, Luis Ramirez, that the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department is monitoring the case and that most people in this small town in the Appalachian Mountains believe it was a horrible crime

But Ms. Dillman, the mother of Mr. Ramirez’s two young children, is not sure justice will prevail.

“I think they might get off,” she said of the four teenagers, “because Luis was an illegal Mexican and these are ‘all-American boys’ on the football team who get good grades, or whatever they’re saying about them. They’ll find some way to let them go.”

The case has raised similar concerns among Latinos across the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/us/05attack.html?_r=2&sq=luis%20ramirez&st=cse&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&scp=1&adxnnlx=1217980938-l/rdJzJ07tuNaNN4Wxn5gw

Hate crime acquittal becomes Hispanic rallying cry

By JESSE WASHINGTON
AP National Writer

Posted on Tue, May. 12, 2009 04:04 PM

Teenagers, a small town and alcohol. Tension between whites and a growing Hispanic population. Ethnic slurs, punches and kicks. A dead illegal immigrant from Mexico.

The acquittal of white Pennsylvania teenagers of all serious charges this month in the death of Luis Ramirez has become a rallying cry for justice among Hispanics who feel increasingly under attack here in America. It also has exposed difficulties in enforcing hate crime laws designed to keep minorities from becoming targets.

Civil rights groups and elected officials were planning a news conference Wednesday to urge the Justice Department to prosecute the Ramirez case after the state-court acquittals, and to renew calls for passage of a federal hate crimes bill that would expand enforcement and extend protection to gay and transgender individuals.

The bill has passed the House, and President Barack Obama has said he will sign it.

Even with the new law, prosecutors still would have to delve into the minds of people accused of committing crimes based on race, color, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

That can be easy when a swastika is sprayed on a synagogue. It can be harder to pinpoint the emotions that make a random encounter turn deadly.

http://www.kansascity.com/437/story/1193345.html

[imdjh]

39. LA Times - a different picture of hate

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/25/local/me-hatecrime25

The annual report by the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission showed hate crimes rose by 28%, to 763, with vandalism and assault leading the way.

In what commission Executive Director Robin Toma called an alarming trend, hate crimes based on race, religion and sexual orientation all rose, increasing against nearly all groups -- including blacks, gays, Jews, Mexicans, whites and Asians -- even as crime in general declined.

The largest number of racial hate crimes involved Latino suspects against black victims, followed by black suspects against Latino victims.

Latinos also made up the largest number of suspects in hate crimes based on sexual orientation. Whites were the leading suspects in religion-based incidents.

Overall, blacks made up nearly half the hate crime victims, totaling 310.

[AlphaCentauri]

50. That is an interesting story about latino gangs

but probably there are many crimes that are not reported, many latino or immigrants won't file reports so if they find obscene graffiti in their backyard they just paint over no big deal for them, also many of them don't call the police when a criminal call them names, the statistic may represent the point of view of those who made the most calls to the police station.

BTW That remains me of the lady who call 911 over chicken Mc-Nuggets

[downindixie]

17. How many kids younger than 17 have

been tried as adults and sentenced to years in jail and yet this 17 yo get such a light sentence.I'm talking about 12 and 13 year old kids that will be in prison for life! It's so sad!

[imdjh]

20. Each case is different.

This wasn't someone who took a gun and went out and killed a stranger in cold blood, or shot Mom at the Mom and Pop- this had aspects of a fight. I'm not saying that the sentence was correct, just pointing out that this was not premeditated murder. If you see a minor going to jail for life, it's usually because it was cold blooded murder, organized crime, or murder for profit or pleasure.

[AlphaCentauri]

36. kicking someone on the head while lays unconsciense on the street is not cold blood murder?

just wondering

[imdjh]

37. It could be

Merriam Webster defines "cold blood" as "1 a: done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency <cold–blooded murder>", so that would not appear to apply to this case.

I'll try not to use anything other than clinical words with concrete definitions in future discussions.

[AlphaCentauri]

38. "done or acting without consideration, compunction, or clemency "

OMG, I may have to learn how to interpret those words again,
were there any consideration or clemency when this guys decided to kick Ramirez on the head while he was unconscience?

[imdjh]

40. You don't have to interpret the words- they have definitions

What you have to do is analyze the situation and the events objectively, since we're talking about the results of a trial.

To call this cold blooded murder, then you have to believe that murder was the goal and that it was executed without consideration, compunction, or clemency.

The facts of the situation contradict that.

You would have to believe that the defendants intended to kill Ramirez from the start. This is undone by the PROSECUTION testimony that they were leaving when Ramirez went after them.
You would have to believe that the defendants intended to kill Ramirez in front of at least one witness (several actually) who they made no attempt to kill.
You would have to believe that the defendants intended to kill Ramirez and expected there to be no consequences. You can imagine that, but you have no reason to believe it.

If the defendants intended to kill Ramirez, don't you think they would have done it when he went down the first time or while he was on the phone calling the Garcias for help?

Do you still see "cold blood"?

[AlphaCentauri]

45. I don't want to go on circles, can't believe that anyone think a blow on the head would not kill

a person when it's unconscience

[imdjh]

48. It doesn't on TV

I'm not being flippant - chances are the only time these defendants have ever seen anything like what they did was on TV. On TV, one guy fights off four guys. On TV, you can fight for 5 minutes solid. On TV, you can get the shit beat out of you and get up and fight some more. On TV, a 300 pound man can fly off the top rope and land flat on your chest leaving you with enough wind and strength do do a backflip and put him in a head lock.

What these guys did was very bad, but I don't think they intended to kill this guy. That's really all I was commenting on.

[proteus_lives]

22. From everything I've seen, it was a street fight gone bad.

Both sides racially taunted each other and I have no doubt the fight was racially fueled but murder? I don't think so.

Plus I have trouble feeling sympathy for a child molester. Which is what Ramirez was. The thing that shocked me, is that he knocked up his wife's 14 YEAR OLD SISTER and she's still on TV defending him? What the fuck is wrong with her??

[Bluebear]

23. OMG the stench from your post. nt

[proteus_lives]

24. ???

"OMG the stench from your post"

Stench of??

[IndianaGreen]

25. Thank you for your Aryan Nation point of view on this matter

:puke:

[EJSTES2005]

26. Yeah Proteus

he pretty much deserved to get beat to death. Just reverse the ethnicities in this story and this would be a 60 day news sensation for Fake News.

[proteus_lives]

28. When did I say deserve?

I just have never had any sympathy for pedos. Doesn't matter what their background is. You're right about Faux news though, they tend focus on meaningless shit like skin color.

[proteus_lives]

27. LOL.

"Thank you for your Aryan Nation point of view on this matter"


:rofl:

Sorry, I doubt I'd fit in at any sort of Aryan meeting. I'd stick out like a sore, Semitic thumb!

So, what exactly was "Aryanish" about my post?

[IndianaGreen]

29. It was based on ignorance, or Lou Dobbs, whichever comes first!

‘How is that not a racial issue?’: Shenandoah residents react to homicide

BY LESLIE RICHARDSON
AND DUSTIN PANGONIS
STAFF WRITERS

Published: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:49 AM EDT

SHENANDOAH — The 25-year-old man who died from injuries suffered during an alleged beating Saturday night was planning to move back to his native Mexico, according to his fiancee, who called racial tensions a factor in the decision.

The Schuylkill County district attorney’s office and borough police are continuing to interview witnesses and suspects in the Saturday beating that resulted in the death of Luis Eduardo Ramirez, 15 N. Main St., from severe head injuries on Monday. Six Shenandoah juveniles have been interviewed in connection with the homicide near Vine and Lloyd streets.

Many in the small community — with a population of about 5,200, according to 2006 Census estimates — are discussing the homicide, particularly whether it was racially motivated. Some see no tension in town and worry that what they believe is an isolated incident is being exaggerated in media coverage.

Eileen Burke, a retired Philadelphia police officer who lives near the scene, said about the time of the beating she heard someone shouting “You tell all your Mexican friends to get out of town,” although police said they will not comment on the assailants’ motivation until interviews are complete.

“How is that not a racial issue?” Ramirez’s fiancee, Crystal Dillman, said.

Although Dillman said she had not heard of other incidents of racial violence in Shenandoah, Ramirez and others had been subject to harassment.

“(Residents) constantly yelled at people as they walked down the street,” Dillman said. Dillman, 24, said that even in the three years she had been engaged to Ramirez, tensions had increased.

One reason is because Hazleton’s growing Hispanic population has brought the issue into the media and people’s minds, Dillman said. Growing concerns over immigration — Ramirez, in the country illegally, hails from Iramuco, Guanajuato, Mexico — also made him a target.

“People want to downplay it because they don’t want to give us a bad reputation,” Dillman said.

http://www.republicanherald.com/articles/2008/07/17/news/local_news/pr_republican.20080717.a.pg1.pr17homicide_s1.1815854_top2.txt

Immigration: Mixed-Race Couples Face Violent Harassment in Pennsylvania Town

By Cristina Loboguerrero, El Diario/ La Prensa. Posted August 27, 2008.

SHENANDOAH, Pa.-- They are united by their love for each other, their children and their commitment to maintain a strong family. But every day, they must contend with disapproving looks and, sometimes, insults shouted at them because they belong to different ethnic groups.

This is the story of the many couples in interracial relationships, mostly white women and Mexican men, who live in the town of Shenandoah, Pa. This summer, the town garnered national media attention when a group of white teenagers killed a Mexican man who had a white girlfriend.

Amid an environment of racial harassment, these couples also live with the uncertainty that they could one day be separated because their partner is not in the United States legally.

This is the case of Ruben*, a 39-year-old Mexican, who came to Shenandoah 10 years ago and lives with his partner of five years, 28-year-old Susan*.

Marriage is not a possibility for Ruben, who entered the country illegally and would need to return to Mexico and wait for 10 years before gaining legal status. He prefers to stay here with his three children and his girlfriend, ignoring the occasional insults shouted at him in the street by white teenagers, who call him a "dirty Mexican" or a "wetback."

Susan says she has also been the object of disapproving glances and comments for having a Mexican partner.

"It doesn't happen every day, but occasionally they've told me that I'm dirty to be with a 'dirty Mexican,'" says Susan. "I feel more welcome in the Latino community," she adds.

Susan sadly recalls the life of Luis Martinez and his girlfriend, Crystal Dillman, who suffered similar harassment on many occasions. On July 12, Martinez was beaten by four white teenage boys as they yelled racial slurs at him. He died 30 hours afterwards in a local hospital.

http://www.alternet.org/immigration/96529/immigration:_mixed-race_couples_face_violent_harassment_in_pennsylvania_town/

[imdjh]

30. Your second article calls the deceased 'Luis Martinez" not Ramirez

But, it lists his girlfriend as Crystal Dillman. Other articles list her as Ramirez's girlfriend or fiancé but also call Roxanne Rector, age 15, his girlfriend.

I'm wondering if Crystal isn't somehow behind this- which would make what the defendants did a much more serious crime, and possibly land them with adult charges.

[proteus_lives]

31. Lou Dobbs? Talking head right?

Sorry, I don't watch cable news.

I think racism was a factor, those guys should have been convicted of manslaughter. It was a street fight with racist chest-thumping. They should be in jail for a long time, they killed a guy.

That being said, guy was a pedo. I have zero sympathy for pedos. Be they a drifter or the Dalli Lama. Doesn't mean his killers shouldn't be punished but I'm not going to waste any tears on Mr. Ramirez because he was a piece of shit.


Racist? "Shrugs" I don't think so. I know, I know, J'accuse! I find myself doing too sometimes.

[IndianaGreen]

32. What's your evidence for your claim?

A link or a cite to a periodical would help.

[proteus_lives]

33. I assume you're talking about him being a pedo.

Here you go.

http://guanabee.com/2009/04/trial-begins-luis-ramirez
http://www.silobreaker.com/luis-ramirez-killers-found-not-guilty-after-beating-mexican-immigrant-to-death-5_2262294432759939083
http://www.republicanherald.com/articles/2009/04/28/news/local_news/pr_republican.20090428.a.pg1.pr28trial_s1.2480569_top2.txt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3859117&mesg_id=3859117
http://www.chicano.org/smfboard/index.php?topic=3410.0


She admitted in court that she had been sleeping with him since she was 14.

[AlphaCentauri]

35. That by it self is not an argument to justified the murder of Ramirez

He wasn't murder for that reason so it's irrelevant, unless like in the case of Emmett Till, people want to justified racism and murder.

Also remember than in Pennsylvania you can married a minor, so maybe you are looking at thousands and thousands of legal pedophiles http://www.helplinelaw.com/article/usa-pennsylvania/84

[imdjh]

42. Agreed - the defendants were not motivated by specific knowledge of their victim

If they were, it wasn't included in any of the articles I read.

[proteus_lives]

52. I'm not trying to justify his murder.

All I'm saying is I have zero sympathy for pedophiles. And if you're 25 year-old screwing around with someone 14/15, you're a pedophile. I don't care if it's legal or not.

[IndianaGreen]

53. You surely haven't been around some parts of Indiana

or in Cumberland County, Kentucky.

[proteus_lives]

54. I agree with you.

I've lived in a bunch of different states and there are always skeevy-backwards areas.

Bottom line is I don't condone what those guys did to him. I recognize the racial element to the fight but I will never have any sympathy for Mr. Ramirez.

I don't if a pedo discovers the cure for cancer, they still a pedo. Like that director Roman Polanski, he can churn out all the oscar-winning films he's wants. To me he's just a sex offender who raped a 13-year old.

[DatManFromNawlins]

55. Once upon a time

Two players at my high school while I was attending had a fight. Both were pretty popular kids, but they had a disagreement that came to blows, and one of them took a bad step, got punched in the face, fell down, and hit his head on a concrete curb, breaking his skull, putting him in the ICU.

He could have died, but he didn't.

But assume he had. Does the other kid deserve a murder charge on his rap sheet forever because of the circumstance? What about manslaughter? These were kids who were fighting. Kids don't have the control over their emotions that adults do because they don't have the experience to do so nor the knowledge to understand the full ramifications of their actions.

In this case, I knew and know both of these people. They are both good people with nice families and have enjoyed dinners with both of them since then, even if they themselves will not speak to each other because of what happened. And even if the one had died from his injuries, I would STILL not want the other to have unduly suffered in a penal system that would ultimately do more harm that good.