Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Tensions rise between Chavez, foes in Venezuela

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 08:26 PM
Original message
Tensions rise between Chavez, foes in Venezuela
Source: AP

A move to arrest a prominent opposition leader sent thousands of anti-government protesters into the streets of the country's second-largest city Friday, accusing President Hugo Chavez of launching a new attack against his critics.

The protest came after a prosecutor called for the arrest of Mayor Manuel Rosales, a prominent Chavez opponent who has been accused of corruption.

"There is no justice in Venezuela," Rosales told the crowd. "But we will continue fighting."

Critics say Chavez and his allies are leading a two-pronged offensive by persecuting opponents and increasing presidential power by putting all airports, highways and seaports under federal control. Several key ports were previously administered by Chavez opponents.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090321/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_chavez
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. So, the coup plotters are still against Chavez?
lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. didn't Chavez go to jail for treason??? lol
lol again
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. Is this a prelude to the reaction when Bush is arrested??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
profitfighter1 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. hello
Anytime speaks against repatriating wealth to those who have been stolen from, you know immediately they are a Fascist. Chavez dares to REPATRAITE the wealth that has been stolen through profit by CAPITALISTS, and well, they cant have that, now can they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. This ax is is getting rather worn.
Edited on Fri Mar-20-09 08:50 PM by Mika
Not much left of the head.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Aha!, opposition "leaders" can't be corrupt
they are angels from heaven

O8)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Just like the elected government. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Well, no. They tried to get Chavez killed; he gave them amnesty. n/t
Edited on Fri Mar-20-09 10:24 PM by EFerrari
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. what elected government? the USA government?
or are you talking about the previous governments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't know which side is telling the truth
But these kinds of things keep popping up for Chavez. If I had to guess which one is lying, I'd pick Chavez.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'll bet you think that Fox News or CNN are real news, too.
Because these things keep "popping up" for Chavez, you would say that Chavez is lying? Because he's got the worst press? Whenever our corporate media start demonizing anyone, I don't believe their lying asses. How do you tell if a newscaster is spouting propaganda? His lips are moving.

Please don't be purposely naive. You're too smart for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. When the things pop up
they are given as justifications for cracking down or taking over more of the economy. So either there are conspiracies against Chavez everywhere or Chavez is creeping his way into dictatorship.

Its hard to tell without first hand knowledge. I think it would be "naive" to trust either side. Letting Chavez take complete control without questions just because he fits into an ideological world view is what looks to me like ignoring information.

I don't trust CNN or pro-Chavez media. Its hard to find a reliable source. They all seem biased one way or the other to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Then put your faith in the people of Venezuela -
who keep electing him. They must know something, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. That's very valid
They know more about it than I do. However, GW Bush was elected twice too. If I knew as much about it as the Venezuelan population I still might not agree with the majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
clixtox Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. duplicate post...
Edited on Fri Mar-20-09 10:51 PM by clixtox
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
49. If you knew how transparent and fair the Venezuelan elections are,
then you wouldn't make that comparison. There is no comparison between the two, only contrast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Where there's smoke, there's fire?
"Where there's smoke, there's fire --
or someone with a smoke machine."
Who's operating the smoke
machine? Who needs a smoke
screen?







200 million children in the world sleep in the streets - none are Cuban!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. The guy they quote in this article is one of the main plotters
Edited on Fri Mar-20-09 10:28 PM by EFerrari
in the 2002 coup. Is that mentioned anywhere in this article? No. That should look like bias to you. And, btw, there is no "pro Chavez media" because the Republican media HATES him for kicking their corporations out of Venezuela.

Don't be fooled. The right wing in this country is totally in bed with the right wing in Latin America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I found pro-Chavez sites when I Googled.
I agree about pro-Chavez bias in the traditional media here. I've never seen any sign of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I'm mostly pro the people. But these articles are just par for the course.
They quote people who are obviously partisan and never tell you about it. Like the guy in this article.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. you are 100% pro-Chavez unquestionably n/t
s
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
45. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Why?
There is no record that Chavez has ever tried to frame any of his rivals
on any charges, nor that he has ever falsely arrested or imprisoned
anyone. On the contrary, he was extremely lenient with the leaders of
the 2002 coup against him, perhaps to his own detriment.

Why would he need to drum up false accusations against anyone now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mecherosegarden Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Say what?
How you count how many people died that day? It was a sad day. Lenient?
So sad...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Very sad indeed.
For the plotters who tried to overthrow the democratic process. And
for those Chavez supporters who died at their hands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Who ARE these people who come here and try to sell this cr!p?
Unbelievable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Are you advocating censorship of newsworthy MSM articles?
Sure sounds like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. No. That you choose to make a hobby of posting right wing bs to DU
is completely your right.

But for the poster that I was actually responding to to imply that anyone but Chavistas were hurt during the failed coup is baloney.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Actually my hobby is to post newsworthy articles in these forums
Reports of thousands of protestors in the streets in Venezuela seems newsworthy to me, despite your assertion that it's "right wing bs".

And I thought you wanted people to know what's going on in South America. Guess I was mistaken.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. The article has been busted for the propaganda that it is.
And of those thousands, we'll shortly find out that more than half of them were government supports just as we always do. But, nice try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Mighty bold assertions from you with no proof there
But it's OK if you want to drink your own bathwater.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Stay classy there, Zorrito. Who is Manuel Rosales?
"On 24 November 2006 Venezuelan state television made available to the public a copy of the regional newspaper La Verdad dated 13 April 2002 where Rosales can be seen flanked by military coupsters and the representatives of the Catholic Church. He was also quoted as saying "From Zulia we have to back the government junta and its president Pedro Carmona, because at this moment they are our conductors, they are our leaders." He was also quoted as saying "Any Mayor or Governor that disavows the new institutional order, must leave his post... Because we do not want them in Venezuela".<7>

Rosales appeared on Mega TV's Polos Opuestos where he said "there is roughly 33% of what they call chavismo, or whatever this government system is called, the majority of them are parasites who live off the government and are subsidized by the state". Venezuelan State Television made the video available.<8> He later flatly denied having called anyone a parasite, stating he had never offended a single Venezuelan.<9>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Rosales
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. is that today's lie or just the latest?? n/t
s
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid
;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Ouch.
lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. What are you talking about? The golpistas were the only ones
who got anyone dead during that event.

And yes, Venezuela gave amnesty to the plotters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bgr1938 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. manuel rosales was one of the 2002 coup leaders
and he and none of the other coup leaders have served time because President Chavez never went forward with their prosecution. Asshole Pedro Carmona (president for a day)spends most of his time in miami now, trying to buy the florida politicians to get the u.s.a. to invade venezuela. venezuela is no different from the u.s.a. the rich rule or in Venezuela's case use too. i'm not saying some of the chavez supporters aren't corrupt but the rich in venezuela are absolutely corrupt. and to top it off the white people in venezuela are supreme racist and don't like any person of color especially a brown President. fuck rosales and the oligarch
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Welcome to DU, bgr1938.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bgr1938 Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. thanks efarrari
been reading du for some time. as you can see by bgr1938 i'm an old man and have seen a lot of bull---- in my time. thanks again
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. I had to look up the word when I was translating here in San Francisco courts.
"Bulleria".

lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Reminds me of Russia
Somehow they have been able to dig up corruption or tax charges against all effective political opponents of those in power.

When that didn't work the opponents just turned up dead. That should start happening in Venezuela soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Why would Chavez kill this guy who tried to get him killed
when he already gave him amnesty once? Seriously, pay attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Because that's the way it normally goes
The guy isn't enough of a threat to be killed yet and can be taken care of through prosecution. Whether the corruption is real or manufactured is irrelevant to the outcome if Chavez's people run the police and courts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Wrong. The guy was given amnesty for his part in trying to overthrow
the elected government of Venezuela. That he continues to be a corrupt f#ck is his decision, not a government plot unless you believe the government is plotting against itself.

And Chavez doesn't run the police and the courts.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
50. Chavez runs the courts according to Human Rights Watch
Another defining feature of the Chvez presidency has been its open disregard for the principle of separation of powers and, specifically, the notion that an independent judiciary is indispensable for protecting fundamental rights in a democratic society. After the 2002 coup, the most damaging blow to the rule of law in Venezuela was the political takeover of the Supreme Court by Chvez and his supporters in 2004, which effectively neutralized the judiciary as an independent branch of government. Since the 2004 takeover, the court has repeatedly failed to fulfill its role as a check on arbitrary state action and safeguard of fundamental rights.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/09/18/venezuela-rights-suffer-under-ch-vez

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. That report has been discredited. Try searching Vivanco, the author.
Looks like he was trying to influence elections. In face, notice that the report came out in 2008 and wasn't due until 2009? There was a huge international flap about him. Apparently, Vivanco started out his career shilling for Pinochet. What was HRW thinking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
53. The only thing the coup did to harm Venezuela
Was give Chavez an excuse to crack down harder and seize more power like Bush did.

And, yes, Chavez owns the police and the courts.

I don't give someone much benefit of the doubt when he expels Human Rights Watch delegates as soon as they publicize his anti-democratic agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Baloney. Go read something about Vivanco and get back to me. ETA: Links
Edited on Sat Mar-21-09 07:11 PM by EFerrari
In fact, here is the link to the best analysis by Latin America expert, James Petras. This is but one of many, including my own, analyses of what the PINOCHET apologist Vivanco tried to pull off in Venezuela. The Chavez government was too patient with his corrupt @ss.


Human Rights Watch in Venezuela: Lies, Crimes and Cover-ups
By James Petras
Tuesday, 07 October 2008

Human Rights Watch, a US-based group claiming to be a non-governmental organization, but which is in fact funded by government-linked quasi-private foundations and a Congressional funded political propaganda organization, the National Endowment for Democracy, has issued a report "A Decade Under Chavez: Political Intolerance and Lost Opportunities for Advancing Human Rights in Venezuela" (9/21/2008 hrw.org).

The publication of the "Report" directed by Jos Miguel Vivanco and sub-director Daniel Wilkinson led to their expulsion from Venezuela for repeated political-partisan intervention in the internal affairs of the country.

A close reading of the "Report" reveals an astonishing number of blatant falsifications and outright fabrications, glaring deletions of essential facts, deliberate omissions of key contextual and comparative considerations and especially a cover-up of systematic long-term, large-scale security threats to Venezuelan democracy posed by Washington.

We will proceed by providing some key background facts about HRW and Vivanco in order to highlight their role and relations to US imperial power. We will then comment on their methods, data collection and exposition. We will analyze each of HRW charges and finally proceed to evaluate their truth and propaganda value.

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/human_rights_watch_venezuela_lies.htm

118 Scholars Sign Letter in Protest of Vivanco's "report"

VENEZUELA: Human Rights Watch Report Under Fire
By Humberto Mrquez

CARACAS, Dec 22 (IPS) - A Human Rights Watch report on alleged setbacks in human rights in Venezuela since President Hugo Chvez first took office 10 years ago has been severely questioned by 118 academics from the United States and several other countries.

The report, "A Decade Under Chvez: Political Intolerance and Lost Opportunities for Advancing Human Rights in Venezuela", presented in September, "does not meet even the most minimal standards of scholarship, impartiality, accuracy, or credibility," say the Latin America experts in their open letter to the Board of Directors of Human Rights Watch (HRW).

"By publishing such a grossly flawed report, and acknowledging a political motivation in doing so, (HRWs Americas director Jos Miguel) Vivanco has undermined the credibility of an important human rights organisation," says the letter dated Dec. 16.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45200

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I was waiting for that accusation
Whenever an NGO delivers a report someone doesn't like, they attack the NGO.

I guess you similarly dismiss their dozens of criticisms of the United States under Bush such as Guantanamo, detainee abuse, rendition workers' rights and and treatment of immigrants? They're a biased organization expressing right-wing American views, right?

But no, you'll believe the communist Chavez apologists who have an admitted agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. You didn't read either link, did you?
:)

And you must know very little about US foreign strategy which has used NGOs from Day 1, the last instance that I know of being when our fine Ambassador to Bolivia instructed Peace Corp workers as well as visiting Fullbright scholars to spy on Cubans and on Venezuelans for him.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/11/us_embassy_in_bolivia_tells_fulbright

I don't "believe" anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. I already know about this guy
Maybe Chavez himself had a soft spot for coup leaders since he wasn't executed for his own bloody coup attempt.

Using Human Rights Watch as a strategy isn't a very good idea since they have almost 200 human rights reports on the US alone. If they are our lackeys, they aren't very loyal ones. Reporters Without Borders is another good one for you. OMG they're a CIA front, so why do they have extensive criticism of the CIA, and have dropped the US from 17 to as low as 56 under Bush's anti-freedom policies?

Or try Amnesty International. They have extensive coverage of how people who criticize Chavez' government are threatened, and even shot.

As far as the spies, I guess you didn't know that's how the spy game works all over the world. We likely have thousands of foreign spies in this country right now, some from Venezuela.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. You don't seem to know very much.
Chavez apologized to the nation for the coup he joined. That's where his popularity began. And, he did time for it.

And no one said all of HRW was compromised but Vivanco obviously was. Ditto for RSF.

Have a nice night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. You're so right! He became a national hero among the people who had no choice but to protest
the evil acts perpetrated by Venezuelan President Carlos Andres Perez.

You may find this old article's (from 2000) reference to Vivanco to be of interest, EFerrari:
The War Criminal and the Whore
Barry McCaffrey and
Jose Miguel Vivanco

~snip~
On May 18 Salon, the online mag, published a hero-worshipping piece by Ana Arana about Jose Miguel Vivanco, a Chilean-born, Harvard-educated lawyer who heads Human Rights Watch Americas. In tones breathless with nave admiration Arana described how Vivanco had concluded that McCaffrey's $1.7 billion aid package was bound to clear Congress and that outright opposition was useless. The only strategy, according to Vivanco, was to install in the bill language ensuring that the Colombian military would be forced to respect human rights. Already, Vivanco told Arana, the Colombian military have cleaned up their act and are responsible for only 2 per cent of all human rights violations.

"If Human Rights Watch has its way," Arana wrote in her Salon piece, "the new bill will clearly call for an end to all connections between paramilitary groups and some sectors of the Colombian armed forces." This Salon-sponsored drivel meandered on past all the familiar verbal landmarks, the "difficult middle course" being steered by Vivanco, the necessity for pragmatism in "balancing politics in Washington with the realities of the Colombian conflict."

Back in the 1980s there were people just like Vivanco making the same strenuous claims about new found respect for human rights in the Salvadoran forces. The claims mounted in lockstep with reports of killings by death squads and paramilitaries. Year after year the US press here mostly went along with the charade that these death squads were somehow beyond the control of Salvadoran military or intelligence.

The fact that Human Rights Watch should lend itself vigorously to the effort to push the military aid package through Congress is bad enough. What makes it even worse and even more stupid is the fact that the premise of Vivanco's "pragmatism" is nonsense. The $1.7 billion package is not a done deal. Congress may either seriously amend it, and the Senate may yet sink it altogether.
More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/hrwcolombia.html

~~~~~~~~~~~
Human Rights Watch in Venezuela: Lies, Crimes and Cover-ups

Human Rights Watch, a US-based group claiming to be a non-governmental organization, but which is in fact funded by government-linked quasi-private foundations and a Congressional funded political propaganda organization, the National Endowment for Democracy, has issued a report A Decade Under Chavez: Political Intolerance and Lost Opportunities for Advancing Human Rights in Venezuela (9/21/2008 hrw.org).

. 09.27.2008

The publication of the Report directed by Jose Miguel Vivanco and sub-director Daniel Walkinson led to their expulsion from Venezuela for repeated political-partisan intervention in the internal affairs of the country.

A close reading of the Report reveals an astonishing number of blatant falsifications and outright fabrications, glaring deletions of essential facts, deliberate omissions of key contextual and comparative considerations and especially a cover-up of systematic long-term, large-scale security threats to Venezuelan democracy posed by Washington .

We will proceed by providing some key background facts about HRW and Vivanco in order to highlight their role and relations to US imperial power. We will then comment on their methods, data collection and exposition. We will analyze each of HRW charges and finally proceed to evaluate their truth and propaganda value.

Background on Vivanco and HRW

With the return of electoral politics (democracy) in Chile, Vivanco took off to Washington where he set up his own NGO, the Center for Justice and International Law, disguising his right-wing affinities and passing himself off as a human rights advocate. In 1994 he was recruited by former US federal prosecutor, Kenneth Roth, to head up the Americas Division of Human Rights Watch. HRW demonstrated a real capacity to provide a human rights gloss to President Clintons policy of humanitarian imperialism. Roth promoted and supported Clinton s two-month bombing, destruction and dismemberment of Yugoslavia . HRW covered up the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Kosovo by the notorious Albanian terrorists and gangsters of the Kosovo Liberation Army and the unprecedented brutal transfer of over 200,000 ethnic Serbs from the Krajina region of Croatia . HRW backed Clinton s sanctions against Iraq leading to the deaths of over 500,000 Iraqi children. Nowhere did the word genocide ever appear in reference to the US Administrations massive destruction of Iraq causing hundreds of thousands of premature deaths.

HRW supported the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan where Kenneth Roth advised the US generals on how to secure the colonial occupation by avoiding massive civilian deaths. In words and deeds, HRW has played an insidious role as backer and adviser of US imperial intervention, providing the humanitarian ideological cover while issuing harmless and inconsequential reports criticizing ineffective excesses, which undermine imperial dominance.
More:
http://petras.lahaine.org/articulo.php?p=1755&more=1&c=1

~~~~~~~~~~~


Even more, if you've got the time. I've had these in files for ages, and had forgotten all about them:
Human Rights Botch: Vivanco & Venezuela
Posted by Al Giordano - June 17, 2004 at 3:04 pm
Jos Miguel Vivanco of Human Rights Watch today launched a media-attention-seeking attack on the Venezuelan government for a new law providing a process for impeachment of Supreme Court justices in that country. He held a press conference in Caracas, barking highly charged words in a report titled Venezuela: Judicial Independence Under Siege.

Vivanco and Human Rights Watch are now on record opposing a U.S.-modeled impeachment process for Supreme Court justices in Venezuela. The timing - two months before the August 15 referendum in that country - is obviously a partisan attempt to meddle in electoral politics.

Perhaps Vivanco and his bureaucrats should have done a little bit of research on the United States Constitution and American History before demonstrating such ignorance about democratic principles.

Before this essay is done, we will hear from Thomas Jefferson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt - whose stated principles on the appointment and impeachment of Supreme Court justices HRW has now gone against with this maneuver - on this question. But first let's consult a more recent U.S. president who spoke on this issue Gerald R. Ford Four years before becoming president of the United States, Republican Congressman Gerald Ford spoke on the floor of the House of Representatives, calling for the impeachment, under the provisions allowed by the U.S. Constitution, of Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.

Ford said:
What, then, is an impeachable offense? The only honest answer is that an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history; conviction results from whatever offense or offenses two-thirds of the other body considers to be sufficiently serious to require removal of the accused from office.

- Source: Congressional Record #11,913 (1970), 116th Congress
The title of the Human Rights Watch report creates an impression that, prior to the presidency of Hugo Chavez, Venezuela had "judicial independence." That is a knowingly false statement, because in the text of the report, Vivanco and HRW admit that it never has had it. Their cruel joke against human rights is revealed by the inflammatory, knowingly false, language they use against a new judicial reform law in Venezuela.

The HRW report claims:
The new law, which President Chvez signed last month, expands the Supreme Court from 20 to 32 members. It empowers Chvezs governing coalition to use its slim majority in the legislature to obtain an overwhelming majority of seats on the Supreme Court. The law also gives the governing coalition the power to nullify existing judges appointments to the bench.
Fact Check: The Venezuelan judicial impeachment process is virtually identical to that in the United States (a process about which the beltway-based Vivanco has been wholly silent for the entirety of his career). No authentic democracy can survive without the checks and balances that allow removal of court justices by Congress.

The United States constitution also provides for use of a "slim majority" to appoint Supreme Court Justices. (Remember the U.S. Senate battle over the nomination of Supreme Court Judge Clarence Thomas? Only fifty-percent plus one vote was required to install him: the same exact process that the hypocrite Vivanco attacks in Venezuela.).

With less than two months to go before the historic August 15th referendum (to recall or ratify the term of President Hugo Chavez: the voters will decide), Vivanco and Human Rights Watch's partisan political agenda stands naked. Instead of praising Venezuela for being the only country on earth that allows citizens to recall their president, and that has recently shown its commitment to that process, Vivanco is throwing tomatoes at a process that, although it exists in many other countries including the United States, he and his organization have remained totally silent about in other lands.

Impeachment of Supreme Court Justices is a vital right for any authentic democracy. As recently as this young century, the National Lawyers Guild seriously considered a campaign to impeach the five U.S. Supreme Court justices who appointed George W. Bush as president, ratifying a stolen election.

As the quote from former President Ford, above, reveals, the right to impeach U.S. Supreme Court justices for any "offense" that " of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history." That is how a system of checks and balances works. Vivanco has thus harmed Human Rights Watch's credibility around the world with this latest grandstanding maneuver.
More:
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/al-giordano/2004/06/human-rights-botch-vivanco-venezuela

~~~~~~~~~~~
Human Rights Watch in Service to the War Party: Including A Review of "Weighing the Evidence: Lessons from the Slobodan Milosevic Trial" (Human Rights Watch, December, 2006)
by Edward S. Herman and David Peterson and George Szamuely

Part 1: Introduction: The Role and Biases of Human Rights Watch

Human Rights Watch (HRW) came into existence in 1978 as the U.S. Helsinki Watch Committee. Early documents affirmed that its purpose was to "monitor domestic and international compliance with the human rights provisions of the Helsinki Final Act."<1> But though a private U.S.-based organization whose vice chairman once stated "You can't complain about other countries unless you put your own house in order,"<2> its main focus was on Moscow. Thus its literature also affirmed that founding the Committee "was intended as a gesture of moral support for the activities of the beleaguered Helsinki monitors in the Soviet bloc," and its early work was well geared to advance the U.S. government's policy of weakening the Soviet Union and loosening its ties to Eastern Europe.<3> While the organization has broadened its horizons and grown enormously since its $400,000 seed money from the Ford Foundation, it has never sloughed off its close link to the Western establishment, as evidenced by its leadership's affiliations,<4> its funding,<5> and its role over the years. Because of its institutional commitment to human rights and its broad purview, however, HRW has done a great deal of valuable work, as for example in helping to document the character and effects of the Reagan era wars across Central America, where its Americas Watch reports on the U.S. support for the Nicaragua Contras, the Salvadoran army and death squads, and Guatemalan state terror were eye-opening and led to intense hostility on the part of the Reaganites and Wall Street Journal editors.<6>

But despite these and countless other constructive efforts, the organization has at critical times and in critical theaters thrown its support behind the U.S. government's agenda, sometimes even serving as a virtual public relations arm of the foreign policy establishment. Since the early 1990s this tendency has been especially marked in the organization's focus on and treatment of some of the major contests in which the U.S. government itself has been engaged-perhaps none more clearly than Iraq and the Balkans. Here, its deep bias is well-illustrated in a March 2002 op-ed by HRW's executive director, Kenneth Roth, published in the Wall Street Journal under the title "Indict Saddam."<7> The first thing to note about this commentary is its timing. It was published at a time when the United States and Britain were clearly planning an assault on Iraq with a "shock and awe" bombing campaign and ground invasion in violation of the UN Charter. But Roth doesn't warn against launching an unprovoked war-though wars of aggression had been judged by the Nuremberg Tribunal to be the "supreme international crime" that "contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."<8> On the contrary, Roth's focus was on Saddam's crimes, and provided a valuable public relations gift to U.S. and British leaders, diverting attention from and putting an apologetic gloss on their prospective supreme international crime.

~snip~
Another revealing form of bias has been HRW's regular denial that the United States commits war crimes. Writing in late 2002, Kenneth Roth stated that "In recent wars, U.S. forces have made mistakes and even violated humanitarian law but have not committed war crimes."<32> He admitted that the use of cluster bombs where substantial civilian casualties are "foreseeable" might be deemed by some court to be a war crime, but he himself declared that none were committed-a remarkable claim given that Roth and HRW have hardly examined all uses of cluster bombs and determined that in each of those cases civilian deaths were not "foreseeable." This is the language of crude apologetics. Furthermore, there is the matter of the use of depleted uranium, a civilian-deadly weapon regularly employed by his country, which Roth ignores.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/HRW_Yugoslavia.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. "I'm so sorry I staged a bloody coup"
I'm heartbroken.

The above post said HRW was compromised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Not only was he not executed, he was pardoned by Venezuelan President Rafael Caldera,
and the scum, the reeking pile of filth in a suit, against whom he led one of two coups was impeached. Why wouldn't you have considered including the REST of the information on this? Seems deceitful not to acknowledge this.

He led a coup against a filthy scum who commanded his police to fire upon protesting poor people who ran into the streets after he raised the cost of their heating fuel, and transportation far beyond their ability to afford it. Many of the police refused to obey, walked off the job, and he commanded his military to firepoint blank into the crowds of protesting poor people, killing as many as 3,000 (although his government insists it was only a few hundred) resulting in bulldozers shoving dead people into a mass grave. The date was February 27, 1989, and it was named "El Caracazo."

When that event happened, Venezuela turned a corner, and they made a decision they would NEVER allow this to happen to them again. Hugo Chavez became a national hero when he led the coup against the piece of filth Carlos Andres Perez who was later impeached.

Yet pathetic, rabid ignorant racist right-wing a-holes insist upon portraying the coup as a case of some ambitious mixed race officer deciding he'd bypass the chance of losing an election, and just take over with a coup. Idiots. Liars.
Caracazo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For the 2005 film, see El Caracazo (film).

The caracazo or sacudn is the name given to the wave of protests, riots and looting that occurred on 27 February 1989 in the Venezuelan capital Caracas and surrounding towns. The riots the worst in Venezuelan history resulted in a death toll of anywhere between 275 and 3000 deaths,<1> mostly at the hands of security forces.

The word caracazo is the name of the city plus the suffix -azo, which implies a blow and/or magnitude. It could therefore be translated as something like "the Caracas smash" or "the big one in Caracas". Sacudn is from sacudir "to shake", and therefore means something along the lines of "the day that shook the country". (See Spanish nouns: Other suffixes.)

~snip~
Lead-up

In the context of the economic crisis that Venezuela had been going through since the early 1980s, President Carlos Andrs Prez proposed to implement free-market reforms in his second presidential term (19891993), following the recommendations of the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Prez belonged to the Accin Democrtica (AD) party (social-democrat). This programme was known as the paquete the "package".

Measures taken by Prez included privatising state companies, tax reform, reducing customs duties, and diminishing the role of the state in the economy. As a result of his economic measures, petrol prices rose by 100%, and costs of public transportation rose by 30%. He also took measures to decentralize and modernise the Venezuelan political system by instituting the direct election of state governors (previously appointed by the President).

Protests and rioting

The protests and rioting began in Guarenas (a town in Miranda State, some 30 km east of Caracas) on the morning of 27 February 1989,<2> due to a steep increase in transportation costs to Caracas. They quickly spread to the capital and other towns across the country. By the afternoon, there were disturbances in almost all districts of Caracas, with shops shut and public transport not running.

In the days that followed there was widespread international media coverage of the looting and destruction. For many months, there was discussion about how something so violent could occur in Venezuela.

Overwhelmed by the looting, the government declared a state of emergency, put the city under martial law and restored order albeit with the use of force. Some people used firearms for self-defence, to attack other civilians and/or to attack the military, but the number of dead soldiers and police came nowhere near the number of civilian deaths. The repression was particularly harsh in the cerros the poor neighbourhoods of the capital.

The initial official pronouncements said 276 people had died; however, the subsequent discovery that the government had buried civilians in mass graves and not counted those deaths raised the estimates. Unofficial estimates of the death toll go as high as 3000.<1>

Congress suspended constitutional rights, and there were several days during which the city was in chaos, with restrictions, food shortages, militarisation, burglaries, and the persecution and murder of innocent people.

Consequences

The clearest consequence of the caracazo was political instability. The following February, the army was called to contain similar riots in Puerto La Cruz and Barcelona, and again in June, when rising of transportation costs ended in riots in Maracaibo and other cities. The free-market reforms programme was modified. In 1992 there were two attempted coups d'tat, in February and November. Carlos Andrs Prez was accused of corruption and removed from the presidency. Hugo Chvez, an organiser of one of the coups, was found guilty of sedition and incarcerated. However, he was subsequently pardoned by Prez's successor, Rafael Caldera, and went on to be elected president after him.

In 1998, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights condemned the government's action, and referred the case to the Inter-American Court of Human Rights. In 1999, the Court heard the case and found that the government had committed violations of human rights, including extrajudicial killings. The Venezuelan government, by then headed by Chvez, did not contest the findings of the case, and accepted full responsibility for the government's actions. <2>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo

http://www.bolivar.se.nyud.net:8090/bilder/caracazo2.jpg http://www.bolivar.se.nyud.net:8090/bilder/caracazo1.jpg

http://www.bolivar.se.nyud.net:8090/bilder/caracazo3.jpg http://www.soberania.org.nyud.net:8090/Images/caracazo_4.jpg

http://www.aldeaeducativa.com.nyud.net:8090/images/caracazo04.jpg http://photos1.blogger.com.nyud.net:8090/img/170/5439/320/caracazo2.jpg http://servicioskoinonia.org.nyud.net:8090/martirologio/fotos/f425.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted on Saturday, 03.07.09
Families demand answers about '89 Venezuela massacre victims

As the anniversary of the 1989 Caracazo massacre approaches, memories of the killings are still fresh in relatives' minds as they push Hugo Chvez's government for answers and closure.

http://media.miamiherald.com.nyud.net:8090/smedia/2009/03/07/09/885-Caracazo1.embedded.prod_affiliate.56.JPG

Aura Liscano, left, and Hilda Perez, right, hold
photos of Venezuelans who died on February 27,
1989. Both women lost relatives in the massacre.
GABRIEL OSORIO/FREELANCER

Special to The Miami Herald
CARACAS -- It took years for Aura Liscano to learn the truth about her brother's death.

Hours after going out to play basketball and dominoes in the Cota 905 district where the family still lives, he was gunned down in one of the worst massacres in recent Latin American history.

''There was a room at the morgue full of corpses,'' said Liscano, recalling her family's search for her brother, 21-year-old Jos Miguel.

``Some were hung up like sides of beef. My older brother had to search through a pile of bodies four or five high, but Jos Miguel wasn't there.''

This week marks the 20th anniversary of the Caracazo, a time when Liscano joined dozens of distraught relatives trying to locate loved ones killed after then Venezuelan President Carlos Andrs Prez declared a state of emergency to deal with riots and looting sparked by a package of austerity measures.
More:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/937108.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The President, Carlos Andres Perez, who created this massacre DOES keep a home in Miami, as well as New York.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2004/07/cap.jpg

Former Venezuelan President
Carlos Andres Perez during a
party in his honor celebrated
in Miami.
Credit: Conexiones

http://cache.daylife.com.nyud.net:8090/imageserve/00nc0Pm2kd7hr/610x.jpg

8 months ago: Cecilia Matos, wife of Venezuela's former President Carlos
Andres Perez, holds up a family picture in her Miami condo, Tuesday, June 17, 2008.

Cecilia Matos was his secretary/mistress at the time of El Caracazo massacre.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~snip~
February 27th 1989
The Caracazo 19 years later people's consciousness keeps awake

Caracas, Feb 27 ABN.- Nineteen years after a people's consciousness awoke, Venezuelans understand every time more what happened on February 27th 1989, when occurred what has been called sacudn or Caracazo, tragic and painful social
outbreak in Venezuela, which meant the beginning of changes in the country.

There have passed 19 years since that tragic day which plunged into mourning several Venezuelan families. Nevertheless, at that moment started the awake of
the men and women who are today building the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela towards the XXI century socialism.

The Caracazo is the name given to the massacre organized by Carlos Andrs Perez's administration against demonstrators who had created a strong wave of protests and looting on February 27th 1989, which began in Guarenas (a town in
Miranda State near to the capital) and spread to the Venezuelan capital, Caracas.

The word Caracazo comes from the name of Caracas, city where some of the events took part, as reminiscence of another event occurred several years before in Colombia: the bogotazo.

People from Caracas and other surrounding cities went out to the streets on February 27th 1989. Riots and looting seemed to be out of control. The anger restrained during several years caused the explosion before the measurements
announced by Carlos Andrs Prez, who started his second presidential term kneeling before the International Monetary Fund.

~snip~
Caracazo consequences

The repression unleashed against the people did not stop people's aspiration to change their reality. For that reason, they supported the military uprising on February 4th 1992, headed by lieutenant colonel Hugo Chvez Fras.

For now and forever will be paid tribute to those who fell at the Caracazo, and for now and forever Venezuela will say that the people's consciousness awoke forever a February 27th 1989.

The the Inter-American Court of Human Rights condemned Prez government's actions and the State committed to compensate the victims, fact partially fulfilled in 2004 with those victims who were represented by COFAVIC, a human rights organization.

However, by the end of 2006, the administration of president Hugo Chvez Fras, through the Ministry of Interior and Justice, announced mechanisms to compensate also the victims who had no access to the Inter-American Court.

In order to spread the events of that bad time and to pay homage to those who fell, the famous filmmaker Romn Chalbaud shot a film in reference to the events occurred on February 27th 1989, titled El Caracazo, which was released in
Venezuelan movie at 2005.

This film deals with a film adaptation of this chapter from the Venezuelan contemporary history, from which all Venezuelans have a different and unforgettable anecdote to tell.
http://www.abn.info.ve/noticia.php?articulo=121812&lee=17

~~~~~~~~~~~
~snip~
These testimonies, narrated 20 years after the social outbreak known as the Caracazo, gather the repression of the Army and the police against the people, who went out to the streets to protest the economic measures implemented by the CAP Administration, the hoarding of staple food and the disproportionate increase in prices.

Four million bullets were shot against an unarmed people, in accordance with a research carried out by the Venezuelan Jesuits' SIC magazine (Seminario Interdiocesano Caracas - Caracas Interdiocesan Seminary).


The CAP package deal

On January 16 1989, Carlos Andres Perez took office for second time, warning Venezuelans that he had received a country n bankrupt and that it was needed to get the belt tightened.

An article published by SIC magazine, on March 1989, reads that President Perez's inauguration gave Venezuelans an image hard to digest, since the foretold and needed austerity was conspicuously absent, as well as the announced economic measures to be implemented.

Part of the package deal of the CAP Administration in 1989 established free market pricing, increase in oil prices (in a 100%), in electric power and telephone services (50%), as well as the elimination of subsidies and exchange controls.

The package also envisaged additional debts with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), importation restrictions and export incentives, among other measures, which impact would be compensated by a 30% wage increase for the public sector, extensible for the private sector due to agreements to be bargained.

Such measures were expected to submit the economy to the market forces, in which prices would be determined by the interaction of supply and demand. The sovereignty of the national economic decisions would depend on the IMF.

The suitable package for the impoverished sectors in Venezuela. You do not need to be too clever to foresee the social consequences of these measures: increase in poverty and worsening of the already shocking social differences in the country, reported the leading article of SIC of January, February 1989.

Days before the social outbreak

Waiting for the price freedom, industrialists and traders had hoarded some essential goods. For the two first months of 1989, the main headlines of the national media highlighted the absence of milk, coffee, salt, rice, sugar, toilet paper, cleanser and oil from the shelf of supermarkets.

Five hours to buy two can of popular milk, was one of the headlines showed during those days in a national newspaper.

Added to this situation of hoarding, the murder of an student from the Universidad Central de Venezuela (UCV) in the hands of two officers of the metropolitan police led to a wave of protests in that university.
http://www.abn.info.ve/noticia.php?articulo=121812&lee=17
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-20-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Chavez has had eleven years to go down that road had he been so inclined.
Nothing has changed in the past week that would indicate he's changing
course.

Please check your facts. Nobody has been assassinated, framed, or held
without charge by Chavez in all these years.

Chavez has been democractically elected over and over, in a process that
has stood up to international scrutiny. He's more legitimate than Bush
ever was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
43. Chavez will pay if he goes soft on them.
This man should have been sitting in a high security prison for the past 7 years, not running around agitating and god forbid running for president. Lock up these fascists who have blood on their hands!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
47. Wow ! federal controlled airports ! what a disgrace !
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
52. Spoiled BRATS! Throw them all in jail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-21-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
56. Chavez's foes are also the same kind of foes we face in the USA
The same corrupt and rapacious capitalists that have savaged the American workers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-22-09 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #56
62. It's time ALL those racist, greedy bastards moved on to Miami, where they'd be among friends.
The people of Venezuela have a lot of work ahead of them, constructing a society for the vast majority of people who didn't have a chance before now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 11th 2022, 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC