Saudi royal blasts US stand on Gaza

[bemildred]

Source: AFP

RIYADH: A member of the Saudi royal family blasted the US government yesterday for its “reckless” position on Israel’s attacks on the Gaza Strip.

“The Bush administration has left you (with) a disgusting legacy and a reckless position towards the massacres and bloodshed of innocents in Gaza,” Prince Turki Al Faisal said in a message directed at President-elect Barack Obama.

“Enough is enough, today we are all Palestinians and we seek martyrdom for God and for Palestine, following those who died in Gaza,” Faisal, a former ambassador to the United States, said at a forum on relations between the Gulf region and the US.

Saudi Foreign Minister Saud Al Faisal slammed Israeli politicians for “shedding Palestinian blood in what has become a tactic for Israeli parties to settle their election battles.”

Read more: http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Gulf%2C+Middle+East+%26+Africa&month=January2009&file=World_News200901073568.xml

[babylonsister]

1. Wow, they're feeling the love from all over. This is one stance by

the Saudis I can get behind.

[JerseygirlCT]

2. Blah, blah, blah

Like anyone should give any credence to ANYTHING coming from the Saudi royal family.

Despite their apparent opening of the eyes as regards the Bush administration (don't believe it for a minute!), this is purely a PR move for their audience in the ME. They know their power and position is waning, and they're just trying to prove their Israel-hating creds on the Arab "street".

[thunder rising]

3. That's my take on it too.

[Raster]

29. My take on it also. The bush* family and the saudi royal family have been in bed together for years

[No Elephants]

33. Well, we've seen the kissing..

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

5. Indeed. nt

[GoesTo11]

9. Oh yeah?

Well Assad and Khameni back him up.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. Well of course they do!

They're all playing the same game, and it's all for the same show.

Think bread and circuses, only they've figured out how to do it without the bread.

[Baby Snooks]

11. Actually you're wrong...

King Abdullah offered Saudi land to Israel as part of a "two-state" solution. Israel rejected it. Israel rejects a lot of things. And hides behind the United States when it does so. The world really is getting tired of this "might makes right" form of democracy we seem to shove down everyone's throats. We are a shameful nation. And Israel is one of the reasons why.

[JerseygirlCT]

12. Do you have a link for that?

Because that's an entirely new one to me.

And I'll admit that it would take an awful lot to have me thinking anything positive about the Saudis.

[Baby Snooks]

26. The two Abdullahs..

It was King Abdullah of Jordan who offered land - King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, while Crown Prince Abdullah, offered what became known as the Beirut Declaration in 2002. I don't have time to google it but as I recall there was some offer of land or passage rights having to do with the Gulf of Aqaba which gives Israel access to the Red Sea.

http://www.electronicintifada.net/bytopic/historicaldocuments.shtml

These are all the official documents. From 1915 until the United States decided the democratically-elected Hamas government just wouldn't do.

[JerseygirlCT]

42. Beirut Declaration:

March 28, 2002

THE BEIRUT DECLARATION
The Council of the League of Arab States at the Summit Level, at its 14th Ordinary Session

http://www.saudiembassy.net/press_release/statements/02-ST-0328-Beirut.htm

The Council of the League of Arab States at the Summit Level, at its 14th Ordinary Session:

Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo extraordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli Government;

Having listened to the statement made by His Royal Highness Prince Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz, the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which His Highness presented his initiative, calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land for peace principle; and for Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian State, with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel;

Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the Council:

1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

a. Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights to the lines of June 4, 1967, as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

b. Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian Refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

c. The acceptance of the establishment of a Sovereign Independent Palestinian State on the Palestinian territories occupied since the 4th of June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab Countries affirm the following:

a. Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

b. Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the Government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighborliness and provide future generations with security, stability, and prosperity.

6. Invites the international community and all countries and organizations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the Chairman of the Summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the Secretary General of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim States and the European Union.

***************************************************

Nothing in there about offering their own land to the Israelis. In fact, number 4 looks more like, we want guarantees that we won't have to take in any Palestinians we don't want.

This "generous" offer insists Israel cede the land gained after they were attacked in 67, and in return... we might not attack you again. What guarantees do they offer? Where's the "collateral" if you will? Israel is supposed to cede the land, and then simply trust them at their word? Been there, done that.

This doesn't really support your claim, I'm afraid.

[WhiteTara]

14. thanks for that post

I believe that. I am sick that we give 12Billion a year for this.

[AndyTiedye]

16. Most of Saudi Arabia is Nothing But Sand

Doubtful that either Israelis or Palestinians would be interested in a patch of sand with no source of water.

[loudsue]

28. I truly hope the world is getting tired of it...It's time we all got tired of EVERY form

of war and violence as a way to solving problems. It's so stupid to think that blowing people, families, and infrastructure away is somehow going to make ANYTHING better. Or that spending hard-earned resources on bombs is a productive use of people's energy.

Isn't the world ready to wake up now to a brand new meme?

[No Elephants]

34. One would think, but apparently not. Vengeance must be a greater need than self preservation.

[Chulanowa]

31. So far that's been said about everyone critical of the Gaza invasion

Why not just say "Like anyone should give credence to ANYTHING coming from someone who disagrees with me?"

[No Elephants]

32. Wonder where "Arab street" came from. No one talks of the American street or the Italian street or

the Canadian street. Something about the term is therefore offensive.

[The Stranger]

44. Bullshit. That they are the ones calling Israel on the carpet should open your eyes.

And if you're just trying to tap into the anti-Saudi crowd, I doubt it will fly here now.

[JerseygirlCT]

45. I'm not terribly interested in your take on what will fly here now

or for that matter, what will fly here now, on this issue.

The Saudis are despicable; their opinion on the subject is entirely colored by hate and self-interest.

They are not really calling the Bush admin on the carpet - they're the best of friends. But that friendship is currently inconvenient in a PR sense, thus this grand announcement. They're the ones full of shit.

[The Stranger]

47. You're using the Saudis -- such easy targets -- to deflect criticism from Israel.

Real simple. There it is.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. Sure I am

Because I think the criticism of Israel is overblown and naive.

There are two sides in this struggle, and this is not a good guy/bad guy situation - though you'd never think that from many posts here - where Hamas is elevated to hero status, and anything the Israelis do is evil.

I don't buy that at all.

The Palestinians are not simple victims. Some of their current situation is directly attributed to bad choices they have made as a people, or entrusted to less than trustworthy leaders. Hamas are interested only furthering terrorism, and not in the well-being of the Palestinians.

The Israelis have also made stupid mistakes. Had they concentrated on humanitarian aid to Palestine for the last several years, Hamas would likely never have gained the power they currently do. But for them, security is understandably paramount. They live surrounded by hostile countries, many of whom still maintain their desire to see Israel wiped off the map. They've taken the lesson that strength is the only way to security, if not perhaps to peace.

Which leaves things in a mess. And the way toward peace is not going to be an easy one. I for one do not believe it's currently possible, if Hamas is the partner Israel has. Hamas has no interest in peace and are therefore no sort of viable partner. So I truly do not know where it goes from here. Likely stopping the fighting now will require international pressure on all parties.

[The Stranger]

49. If you're dishonest enough to try to scapegoat the Saudis for what Israel is doing,

then you have no credibility on this or any other issue.

[JerseygirlCT]

50. And if you're silly enough to read this as "scapegoating"

then there's little point continuing this conversation.

I said they're dishonest, not directly responsible for the current incursion.

I said they don't give a hoot about Palestine - want to dispute that with facts, not just Israel-hate?

I said they're a despicable regime - ditto - other than saying what you want to hear right now, you have anything to dispute that?

You're just playing the childish game that seems to be a la mode around here right now. Have fun, but I'm out with you.

[Captain Hilts]

4. And what have the Saudis done to help the folks in Gaza? Still waiting...nt

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Nothing.

Like Hamas and a great many other parties in the ME, they need the Palestinians' suffering for their own purposes. A settled, peaceful Palestine would be a disaster for them. A healthy Palestinian state, likewise. They'd have to quickly find another "cause", far enough away not to get them all dirtied themselves, on which to focus their own deprived and ill-treated citizens, so to avoid trouble at home.

[Captain Hilts]

7. That's right. They haven't done jack shit for Gaza, its inhabitants. Anything productive. nt

[treestar]

23. And they treat their own Palestinian refugees horribly

The let them live there but treat them like second class citizens. They don't want them to assimilate or anything. First, they're not of the master Saudi race, and second, they want them supporting the fighting over Palestine.

[No Elephants]

35. It's only hearsay, but I've heard Palestinians are not keen on assimilation themselves.

[High Plains]

27. Quit throwing Zionist horseshit around.

[leftynyc]

39. You don't like the truth?

Tough shit.

[Sultana]

20. Nothing just like the other Gulf states and Arab countries

So much for the brotherhood that Islam teaches. :eyes:

[harun]

43. Nada, they have an air force they can use, but they won't.

[StudsT]

8. hopefully, Obama is planning to come in with something different with all this secracy of late

otherwise it will be a massive fraud and a horrible continuation of the status-quo that has contributed heavily to the current mess.

we need to hear the adults speak up, NOW, imho.

The Outline for Peace - Bernard Weiner

It's been clear for decades what the outlines of a just peace might look like and what each side would have to do to get there:

1. Both sides would have to abandon the "I'm the true victim" and "you started it" loops. Each side has some history on its side, each side has behaved abominably, each side has some justice in its arguments. Both sides would have to stipulate, so to speak, to these recognitions and vow not to get bogged down in whose claim is the more righteous but stick to how to make living together in the same region workable and mutually beneficial.
   
   
2. Israel would have to return to its pre-1967 borders, fully end its occupation and control of the West Bank and Gaza, abandon its settlements on Palestinian land and make sure no new ones are allowed to intrude into the new viable Palestine state, which Israel would officially recognize. (In terms of Gaza and the West Bank, Israel would cease its ruthless policy of "a hundred eyes for an eye" overkill, and constant humiliation of the Palestinians by engaging in way-over-the-top violence that constantly reminds them of their utter powerlessness.
   
   
3. The Palestinians (both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority or, better yet, Hamas inside the Palestinian Authority) would have to officially recognize the de facto State of Israel and its right to exist within secure borders. No more rockets, no more suicide bombers inside Israel, no more calling for Israel's destruction, etc.
   
   
4. Realizing that there are crazy fanatics on each side, acting out of religious zealotry or ultranationalist urgings, both sides would have to agree to crack down on those extremists and not let occasional militant violence interfere with the peace process as it unfolds and in living together after the peace treaty has been signed.
   
   
5. Jerusalem, prized for historical and religious reasons by both sides (and by Christians as well), would become an international city, administered by the U.N. and/or a tri-religious civic council agreed to by all.
   
   
6. If Israel will not permit the "right of return" of Palestinians forced off their lands by the original establishment of the Jewish state or by the Separation Wall, they will pay fair compensation for the land. Perhaps Arab nations separately and the Arab League collectively can aid in this regard as well.
   
   
7. Treaties would be worked out regarding the travel rights of Palestinian workers inside Israel, the fair allocation of precious water resources, sharing technological developments, etc.
   

much more...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x414139

pretty good idea for progress there, imho.

:hi:

StudsT

[No Elephants]

37. Number 1 alone seems like a massive obstacle. You started it. No, you started it before that. But

before that, you started it. Uh uh. Oh, yes, you did. Oh, no, I didn't. Oh, yes, you SO did, you big poopyhead.

Someone needs to send them to bed without TV. Or aid.

[StClone]

13. Saudis do something about it!

Start by cutting oil supply until we get rational.

[acmavm]

15. The Saudi Royals. Such humanitarians. How they worry about their

'subjects'. How fair they are to their people. Especially women. They are subjected to a life of constant terror.

And when they explain their connection to 911, then MAYBE (but I doubt it) I'll give a shit about what they think or say. But 17 out of 19 came from Saudi Arabia, right?

[JerseygirlCT]

40. They are one of the most despicable regimes on the planet

at this time.

I neither trust nor believe anything I hear from them.

[BelgianMadCow]

46. you have a quaint interest in historical tidbits of info

so teh Hijaakers weren't all from Eyeraq?

:sarcasm:

I want to see the redacted pages of the 9/11 report, "follow the money". I still fume.

[Alamuti Lotus]

17. .........and then go back to breaking up protests and arresting the protesters

The Saudi army and air force is very powerful; don't talk about it, DO SOMETHING.

[BunkerHill24]

18. All talk and no action!

The late King Faisal would have shut off the freaking pipeline already. Sadly, these young princess' can't live without their iPods.

[Sultana]

19. Those in top positions aren't that young

[BunkerHill24]

22. I know...I mean the five thousand or so that receive the royal checks

[Sultana]

25. LOL, yeah

So lazy, they live in a life of pure luxury and do whatever they plz behind palace walls.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Then cut off oil shipments to the West!

That would certainly get everyone's attention!

[Dorian Gray]

24. While I agree that this situation is totally shameful

hearing him invoke the idea that "...today we are all Palestinians and we seek martyrdom for God and for Palestine..." annoys me. If that's true, then allow the refugees sanctuary in your country, take care of them on a humanitarian level, and try to peacefully solve this issue.

[justsomeguy1973]

30. Saudis and all Arab states won't help the Palestinians

It's too dammed useful to have them there to use as a diplomatic pawn.

Plus who the fuck cares what Saudis say. Last time I checked, they only avoid being listed as a terrorist state because we need their oil.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. Funny, The Apartheid nation of Saudi Arabia "blasts" the US on Gaza.

They have such a 'great' track record with Palestinians.

[JerseygirlCT]

41. Exactly. nt

[PuraVidaDreamin]

38. geez Saudi's we let you get away with 9/11- Don't you owe us one?????

So ungrateful!