(MO - Catholic) Bishop: Voting Obama Affects 'Eternal Salvation'

[sabra]

Source: nbc action news

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A Catholic Bishop warns Catholics not to vote for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. The Bishop believes your vote is tied to your eternal salvation.

Inside St. Therese Catholic Church, hundreds of people kneeled and prayed to Mary for help on Election Day.

Those praying included Bishop Robert Finn, leader of the Kansas City-St. Joseph Catholic Diocese. His words raised eyebrows both in and outside his faith.

On local talk radio, 710 KCMO, Bishop Finn warned Catholics planning to vote for Democrat Barack Obama.

Host Chris Stegall asked Finn, "There are some Catholics listening to me right now that are thinking strongly or convinced they will vote for Barack Obama. What would you say to them?"

"I would say give consideration to your eternal salvation...you make yourself a participant in the act of abortion," Finn replied. That's gravely wrong. You must not do it because your eternal salvation is tied up with that important choice."

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/political-nbc/story.aspx?content_id=a6efe4c6-7d61-4f88-b6a5-58cb13c70f8f

[amdezurik]

1. time for that church to lose tax-exempt status...

[roguevalley]

82. the bastard Pauline dimwit. You don't need a church to find God.

And God doesn't need a church to find you.

[Joe Bacon]

100. Take the churches off of welfare

Tax them. If they wanna play, make them pay!

[YOY]

2. Fuck him.

Palin dumped the church so she could talk in tongues with the Talibornagains.

Apparently Bishop Finn finds Obama infinitely more appaling...

[scytherius]

34. HAHAHA EXACTLY what my Catholic go to Mass every Sunday friend said. n/t

n/t

[YOY]

48. Every Catholic needs to be made knowledgable of that little pearl of a fact.

n/t

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

59. The Bishop

The same applies to the Bishop when those young boys weren't turned down, but turned face down.

[YOY]

60. Why do you insinuate pedophilia?

Has this particular idiotic Bishop been accused of it?

Or perhaps you think all Catholic Clergy are pedophiles by association?

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

61. Stated Plainly

I was conveying the idea all eschatological clergy are guilty by association in attempting to frighten people with the mythology of eternal salvation.

[YOY]

63. That part is partly true.

But the pedophelia mention is beyond the pale. Not to ever justify some of the Church's apaling attempts to cover it up but to blanket all in the Catholic Church as such is wrong.

I have known decent Catholic Clergy...they are not all pedophilies and hellfire spitters and spend more time helping the poor and needy.

Sadly you will seldom hear stories about them.

The shitstain Bishop in the story was never one of them.

Personally, I'm more of an Agnostic these days than ever but I still remember decent clergy.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

64. Wow...

You got me! Using "beyond the pale" and "shitstain" in the same post about a concern over pedophilia has set me mind to wondering. I can't top that. I concede.

[YOY]

65. I think the point is that this has nothing to do with pedophilia.

n.t.

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

66. Yes

Well said.........................

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

88. Because it's perfectly acceptable to some people to bash Catholics

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

87. Yay...more Catholic bashing

:puke:

That Bishop is a whack job and most Catholics disagree with him, but your post is disgusting.

[YOY]

92. My post?

I basically said just what you said! Read my other posts.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

93. I thought I was responding to JimBillyBubbawhatever

[YOY]

94. Oops!

Indeed you were.

Talk about shitting on an entire voting block because of perceived bs...

Oh well we won!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

95. It's okay -- I've got the champagne popped

[saltpoint]

3. Rev. Finn gets to vote for the candidate he wants and the rest of us get

to vote for the candidate we want.

I think our side's gonna win.

[still_one]

4. so is covering up pediophiles bishop. What a hypocrite /nt

[LynnTheDem]

5. Dear Catholic Bishop;

Fuck off.

[AndyTiedye]

6. From His Mouth to the IRS's Ears We Hope

Bye-bye tax exemption!

[joeglow3]

21. He did not say it in his church

The law does not prevent someone from either side of the political aisle from speaking their mind in public. Rather, the law says you cannot advocate for or against a specific candidate in the church (i.e. send out an official message from the church or do it in a sermon).

[customerserviceguy]

79. Interesting loophole

that's why Pat Robertson gets to say all that political crap on his TV show, no doubt.

We need to change the rules, since religious whackos see TV and radio as extensions of their ministries, the IRS needs to regard them the same way.

[Owl]

7. Hey Finn, go to Hell!

[bkkyosemite]

8. He's just worried his church may have to cough up some dough now that he wouldn't be in the pocket

of the administration any longer. After all being the Catholic church is one big corporation. I know was brought up Catholic and I think it is hilarious what this bishop says. He needs to go into his confessional and stay there kissing his ring until it is decided that Obama will be the 44th President of the United States and he won't scare anyone with his fear tactic's.



"I would say give consideration to your eternal salvation."
:rofl:

[GodlessBiker]

9. They'll simply seek forgiveness for the sin of voting for Barack and everything will be fine.

[Epiphany4z]

10. is it a problem if you vote for a pro war candidate?

what if you vote for the anti health care guy...I mean a lot of folks die because of lack of health insurance.....

[Sodbuster]

23. I guess the church now backs the candidate who thinks Torture is okay!!

Let's bring back the Inquisition eh Father?

[2Design]

11. voting for war would be worse n

[John1956PA]

12. The Bishops of the PA Catholic Conference are about the same.

Just as in 2004, the Bishops of the eight or so Catholic dioceses in PA put out election guides pointing out that the Democratic candidate is pro-choice and the Republican candidate is pro-life. These one-page voter guides are included in the Sunday bulletins distributed at Mass just prior to the election. To follow up, some of the individual Bishops publish election letters in their respective Dioceses newspapers. In Pittsburgh, the Bishop exhorted the faithful, "For God's Sake, Vote!" The Bishop went on to pontificate that the abortion issue was of "tantamount" importance. This type of influence is causing at least some Catholics to vote for McCain over Obama.

[JuniperLea]

13. Think of all the good that could be done with the taxes from the Catholic church...

Keep talking, dumbass.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. I used to teach in Catholic schools

and my hubby said they could pay me well for life if they would just sell one painting in the Vatican. :)

[JuniperLea]

44. I bet!

:rofl:

[prolesunited]

14. And voting for a party that wants endless war

and more death penalty executions is a ticket to heaven?

My dad is a devout Catholic who previously voted for Bush because of this crap. I'm proud to say I took him to early vote to cast a ballot for Obama this year.

[Solly Mack]

15. Fuck him and his bullshit

[jobycom]

16. Sorry, Bishop, couldn't hear you over the screams of grief of Iraqi mothers

after finding their small children blown into bloody fragments of muscle and bone by bombs that YOUR candidate dropped on them.

And as I remember my Catholic theology, Bishop, you are now a heretic for calling into question the efficacy of the Sacraments of confession and extreme unction in relation to eternal salvation.

[SemperEadem]

17. see, that's why the day I graduated catholic high school

was the day I left the catholic church. How I vote has nothing to do with the condition of my soul.

How 15th century of this asshole!!

[clixtox]

90. I fled after graduating from the 8th grade at St, Joe's in 1960... In Berkeley, CA

It seemed to me that if you could actually believe so much absolute BS you would surely be an exploited minion your whole life.

I really don't think anyone actually believes all of the ridiculous teachings of the Catholic Church, or any similar cult, but for various reasons everyone involved pretends to be pious. The results of this hypocrisy are glaringly obvious due to the manifold evils supported by almost all organized religions.

Tune In, Turn On & Drop Out

It is never the wrong time to do the right thing!

Think...

Think some more!

[hedgehog]

18. I really believe that in about 10 to 20 years (maybe sooner), all the

bishops will be gone but the Catholic Church will remain. The Holy Spirit and Good John XIII set us on the path 40 some years ago to getting rid of this last vestige of the Roman Empire, and these guys have been doing their best to stop that. These bishops are going against the will of God, and boy, is She mad!

[kestrel91316]

19. Revoke tax exempt status NOW.

[TomClash]

20. Hey, Bishop, read Luke 20:45

Within earshot of all the people Jesus said to his disciples, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”

[sasquatch]

22. Is that because Obama won't turn an eye to the actions of Father Squeezie McFeelpants

[davekriss]

24. Did this same Bishop Finn fess up in 2004 that...

...a vote for Bush made you a participant in an immoral invasion of a foreign land where babies and children were torn to bloody pieces by American bombs? Did the godly Bishop acknowledge that a vote for Bush made you a participant in the biggest damning Lie of this generation?

Wouldn't a vote for McCain be a vote to participate in "bomb, bomb, Iran", another ungodly mass slaughter of innocent men, women, and children?

Such godly consistency, that surely firms up his followers' (blind) faith...

(I think Dante has an especially toasty place in hell for hypocrites.)

[LTR]

25. His argument holds no water

First, if one is for the sanctity of life, they would also be against the Iraq War and the current administration's disastrous policies directed at the poor and working class.

Plus, the Republicans have held some sort of control in government for the past three or so decades. The Supreme Court has held a conservative majority for much of that time. What have they done to ban abortion? The answer is nothing. Republicans benefit by stringing along and suckering the anti-abortion crowd with empty promises. At least abortion rates went down during the Clinton years.

I'm Catholic, and this asshat does not speak for me. And he is not one to pass judgement either. All in all, this guy's a hypocrite.

[SemperEadem]

26. they need to hear from people

Archdiocese of Kansas City

12615 Parallel Parkway
Kansas City
Kansas
USA
66109

ph. [phone]
fax [phone]

Catholic Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph:

Physical Address:
300 East 36th
Kansas City, Missouri 64111


Mailing Address:
Post Office Box 419037
Kansas City, Missouri 64141-6037

Phone: [phone]

Toll-Free: 800.246.1850


the offending priest: <>

[SemperEadem]

29. to send emails

you have to go to the link on their site...
kc arch diocese: http://www.archkck.org/component/option,com_contact/Itemid,3/
st.j diocese: http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/contact/

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. NO WRONG DIOCESE

This one is in Missouri.

[SemperEadem]

53. I put the wrong ARCH-diocese address... the diocese address is right

Catholic Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph:

Physical Address:
300 East 36th
Kansas City, Missouri 64111


Mailing Address:
Post Office Box 419037
Kansas City, Missouri 64141-6037

Phone: [phone]

they nonetheless need to hear that political speeches from the pulpit are wrong.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. There is a different arch diocese in each state

And really the Catholics in Kansas aren't near as bad. MO Catholics are much more conservative.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. No that's not the right diocese!!!!

This bishop in the article is from Missouri. The church where he was speaking is in MISSOURI!

Please edit your post.

The Catholics in Kansas aren't all bad. :)

[my_pet_wolf]

86. 3 Catholic Bishops from KS already made this argument

Check out Mike Hendricks' column in The Kansas City Star

Hendricks: Kansas bishops say a vote for pro-choice Dems is a vote for "evil"
While they don't come right out and say it as plainly as the headline above does, the four bishops in Kansas made it pretty plain what they believe are the civic duties of their fellow Roman Catholics this election season.

Duty No. 1, vote. "Voting is a moral act," the bishops said in a letter reprinted in the Aug. 10 bulletin of Holy Trinity Catholic Church in Lenexa.

Duty No. 2: Vote pro-life, but only as it pertains to abortion and stem-cell research. Life issues like the death penalty and war are debatable. But not gay marriage and so-called mercy killing.

If you've ever wondered how the church justifies such distinctions (hair splitting is another term for it), here in their own words is the explanation from bishops Ronald Gilmore of Dodge City, Paul Coakley of Salina, Michael Jackels of Wichita and Joseph Naumann, archibishop of Kansas City in Kansas:

Link: http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/13672

[yardwork]

27. Serious question for Catholics here on DU:

I know that the Ten Commandments say that killing is wrong, but why would abortion be more wrong than war or executions? Does it have to do with unborn souls? I thought that Vatican II took care of that by allowing unbaptized babies to be saved.

I don't understand why people consider abortion to be worse than war or other forms of killing. I'm truly puzzled by this. The fundamentalists are even more hypocritical, imo. They positively LOVE the idea of going to war with "heathens," even though the Ten Commandments don't seem to make any exceptions for war, etc.

Please help me understand. At this point, I've decided that so-called Christians who oppose abortion but are ok with war are just patriarchal hypocrites who really want to control women's lives and bodies.

[Lifelong Protester]

33. see my note below...

I could not stand that large piece of hypocrasy myself, and so I have basically left the church.

[damntexdem]

28. Yank the tax exemption for his diocese as well as for this church.

[DeadManInc]

30. They need to crack down on these douche bags

[Lifelong Protester]

31. This is why I quit going to Mass this spring..

and my never return. If the Bishop thinks that being "pro-life" is supporting an illegal war, with many, many deaths, I cast my lot with the unchurched.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. They have some really crazy Catholics here

:crazy:

[skeewee08]

35. So abortion is wrong

but killing innocent people in a war is Christ Like? What part of Thou Shall Not Kill just says abortion?

[Bragi]

36. Well said. Now fuck off. Your era ends today. /nt

[skeewee08]

45. Who are you telling to F-Off?

[lovuian]

37. this is truly evil

and what drives people from the Vatican

threats and fear that how they work

it shows them for what they are

[Hawkowl]

38. TAX ALL CHURCHES

Bullshit mother fuckers! He wants to speak out let the church pay all local, state, federal income, property and sales taxes. Maybe we can set up a fund for molested children.

[roody]

40. May the Catholics leave their church in droves and join us blissful folk: the unchurched.

[musiclawyer]

69. I went 12 years of catholic school

Mostly a good experience, but then you have clowns like this speak up. It's really depressing. Not all of them are that idiotic. But he sure doen't help the PR.

[benld74]

41. MY ANSWER TO THAT IS THIS PHOTO!

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-36611.html

[glinda]

42. Public needs to be advised of Evangelical Dominionist take-overs

in both the attempts to break up the Episcopalian Churches right now and also the Catholic Churches. If they knew this would they really be falling for this?

[Gman]

43. Just go to Confession and everything's cool

if you believe it's a sin to vote for Obama.

That's what's great about being Catholic. 45 minutes max on Sunday, do something wrong, no problem.

[Mz Pip]

49. Probably, but in a good way.

Voting for the adulterous war monger won't give youa specialplace in heaven.

[AngryOldDem]

50. Who died and made Finn God?

I just love it when the Church tries to mediate God's grace.

When it also acknowledges that issues like war and poverty are also of importance, maybe I'll listen.

Let them have their day in the sun. Their influence and power is fading, they know it, and so they feel compelled to make these grand pronouncements.

Bishop: I voted my conscience today. I'm prepared to defend that vote when I meet my maker, because I probably see more of the "other side" of life issues than you ever will. I am convinced through my own discernment and conscience that Barack Obama is the best man for the job. In any event, I don't answer to you, so stop the spiritual blackmail.

[lelgt60]

51. NO NO He's right!

It does affect your Eternal Salvation.

I really wouldn't want to have to explain to St. Peter why I didn't vote for Obama.

[Bluebear]

52. Thanks for your opinion. Now fuck off, Father.

[cjsmom44]

54. Like I am so Scared...Mr. Bishop

I am Technically a Catholic...But consider myself a Christian....Buddhist...Quaker...
So what I have to say to the dear Bishop is Bite Me

[hedgehog]

55. The worst part of all this - that's NOT what the United States Council of Catholic Bishops says:

http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf

Short version: there are a lot of considerations, so think carefully and choose wisely.

[slackmaster]

56. TAX THE CHURCHES!!!

Or the diocese in the case of the RCC, and all other non-profits that violate the conditions of their tax-exempt status.

[BoneDaddy]

57. And buggering alter boys doesn't

[high density]

62. Finn's a nut on abortion, calls it a "holocaust"

“Finn was adamant: Abortion is the holocaust of the modern world, it’s all in the catechism.” This went on for some time until a couple priests revealed that they planned to vote for John Kerry. “Finn just kind of turned and walked away,” the priest said.

http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2006b/051206/051206a.php

[Shardik]

67. You'd think that Obama was going to make abortion a requirement

for all women at least once and that all people have at least one gay relationship listening to these dingbats.

People like this is why I disavowed ANY organized religion some thirty-odd years ago.

[gtar100]

68. What a tool. So much to refute here.

Since when have repugs ever reduced abortions?

A little partisan on the alter, don't you think?

Just a little judgmental I would say.

Yet another celibate jerk with "all-knowing" attitude.

Me thinks his eternal salvation has just been jeopardized just by saying such crap.

Yet more Catholics having to once again separate their faith from the leaders of their church.

Mary, Mother of God, should I vote for more poverty and war so that we can stop legal abortions?

Finn is yet another example of American ignorance rising to the top because of a winning personality, not because of intellectual honesty or integrity. Why is he so afraid of women?

[workinclasszero]

70. ITS TAX TIME BABY!

The rethuglicans totally controlled the government for 6 or 8 years. Someone remind me when they outlawed abortion???:shrug:

Whats your pronouncement from on high about a money making business that shelters and enables thousands of child molesters, "father"???:puke:

[Poseidan]

71. economic problems?

Tax the churches. They're begging for it.

Ahh.. the circle of sin. On the top of the globe, you have church. On the bottom, hell. On the left and right sides, sin. No matter what, when you leave church, you will reach sin. After sin, you can go back to church or go to hell.

One ass-headed organization, the church construct is. A shame so many people do not understand how their survival instincts are being manipulated.

[AlphaCentauri]

72. Yeah Right!!! like catholics do whatever the bishop say, like not using condoms. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

73. I was wondering if that's what the billboard meant when it said,

"You reap what you sow," and "Live as if everything you do will eventually be known by everyone."

[NOLALady]

74. Who would want to spend eternity with them?

[bleedingheart]

75. yet another reason I don't attend my local Catholic church

[mitchum]

76. "...hundreds of people kneeled and prayed to Mary"...what the fuck is up with that??!!!

crazy ass peasants

[mitchum]

77. Pay your taxes, you fucking pedophile

[LeftishBrit]

78. Are bishops actually allowed to endorse specific candidates from the pulpit?

[Vidar]

80. Tax the chuch & deport the bishop.

[KamaAina]

81. "There are some Catholics...convinced they will vote for John McCain. What would you say to them?"

"I would say give consideration to your eternal salvation...you make yourself a participant in the act of war," KamaAina replied. That's gravely wrong. You must not do it because your eternal salvation is tied up with that important choice."

So there! :P

[Jamastiene]

83. I will be so glad when the day comes that those types

are immediately marginalized and lose their tax exempt status for saying stupid shit like that.

[nini]

84. The priests I know say the exact opposite

I wonder which ones will burn in hell?

:eyes:

[stlsaxman]

85. Hey Mr. Bishop- you should try fucking yourself instead of those kids.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

89. Your post is disgusting

Not all Catholic priests are pedophiles. It's more common among the fundies.

[stlsaxman]

98. Having been one myself- ALL children raised Catholic are fucked.

sometimes literally.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

99. I was raised Catholic and I disagree

[AngryOldDem]

91. Well, I guess we're all going to hell now....

Sure is gonna be crowded!

:hi:

[Maeve]

96. You are wrong, Bish

God said, "You are wrong and I will prove it," and then disappeared.

You are wrong,

[PfcHammer]

97. STFU,

St. Pervert :rofl:

[johnlal]

101. The Catholic Church's increased political involvement...

is one of the reasons I left the church. Once they get rid of us Democrats, then they'll turn on each other.

[johnlal]

102. We'll leave the church, if you give our money back!

How about that deal? If the Catholic Church gives back all the money that Democratic families donated over the years, we'll call it even. Do you think they'll take that deal? Might have to hock a few rings and sculptures.