Engineers charged in Venezuelan blackouts

[Robbien]

Source: Associated Press

Venezuela's state news agency says three engineers have been charged with presumed involvement in a power outage across central and western Venezuela.

The state-run Bolivarian News Agency says a local court in Venezuela's southern city of Ciudad Guayana has charged the maintenance workers with the "culpable favoring of sabotage."

They were employed by state-owned electricity company Electrificacion del Caroni CA.

The blackout left Venezuela's capital and 10 states without power for some 45 minutes Sunday.

Read more: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/22/news/LT-Venezuela-Power-Outage.php

---

Why would there be saboteurs? Answer in another article:
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-36045120081019


A large power blackout hit Venezuela on Sunday in the latest of a series of electricity grid failures that have become a political liability for President Hugo Chavez in the OPEC nation.

Sunday's blackout hit areas in and around the capital Caracas, at least three other major cities and a tourist coastal region, residents said. A top electricity official told state television eight central states were affected although power was gradually being restored in some areas.

Still, this blackout was set to cause less disruption to Venezuelans than previous large ones this year that struck on weekday afternoons, causing chaos for commuters. . .

While he has warned voters that improvements could take time, polls show Venezuelans are increasingly concerned about the blackouts as he faces tough regional elections across the country in little over a month.. . .

Political analysts say now that he has resolved the food shortages, the blackouts could come to symbolize for voters Chavez's failings.

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-36045120081019

[UndertheOcean]

1. waiting to see if he will leave office is voted out.

[Tempest]

2. What makes you think he won't?

He has accepted the defeat of the referendum and has given no indication he plans on an end run around it.

[UndertheOcean]

4. Just a gut feeling

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UndertheOcean]

8. what are you talking about ?

[Tempest]

9. Reminds me of my favorite line from High Fidelity

"Should I bolt every time I get that feeling in my gut when I meet someone new? Well, I've been listening to my gut since I was 14 years old, and frankly speaking, I've come to the conclusion that my guts have shit for brains."

[UndertheOcean]

11. Lol

:) , thats really funny

[ronnie624]

10. I say go with your gut.

Don't let facts or logic complicate your judgment.

[harmonicon]

15. The fact is, Chavez isn't white

Some people will come up with all of the excuses in the world for saying shit about him, but they would never say those things about white democratically elected leaders. Does anyone question if Sarkozy would step down if voted out of office? No. Bill Clinton when he was voted out? No. Gordon Brown? No. Angela Merkel? No. Zapatero? No. Even Berlusconi - no, they don't question it. It seems however to be very easy to demean people with black and brown skin, no matter what the facts show. I can't believe that this shit is tolerated around here. It amazes me.

[Judi Lynn]

18. You're not the only one who believes that. They are able to discharge a whole lot of hatred

against a man of color, and against the absurd ignorance-based fear of a political system they don't have the ambition to learn anything about.

Pathetic.

This is the kind of fertile soil our propagandists crave, as they are all such easy "pickin's." Doesn't take a lot to get them foaming at the mouth and shaking their little fists at "enemies" of the criminals among us.

[harmonicon]

20. smears I see about Latin Americans here remind me of the right-wing smears against Obama

Legitimately elected democratic leaders are accused of being some sort of "closet dictator", based on a "feeling". I don't see how that's any different than people thinking that Obama is a "secret Muslim", or a "socialist", based on no facts, but only "feeling".

Some things like that wouldn't be allowed on DU, but others run rampant. It's all the same: "the dark skinned man can't possibly hold himself to the same ethical standards as a white man, because of his animal blood."

[WriteDown]

23. ?

Bush is white and I am not so sure he will leave office. Hitler, Mussolini, Putin are all white. I've found that racists tend to interpret innocent comments as being racial if they harbor these feelings themselves. I for one think the post was making fun of Chavez for being fat.

[harmonicon]

25. There are reasons to have those suspicions about BUsh, Mussolini, and Putin

All are corrupt, and involved with questionable elections. Chavez is an above the board democratically elected leader. The number of times that I have to point out on this message board that Chavez is a democratically elected leader and has never once been shown to be corrupt or dishonest amazes me. I have to start to wonder if the reason people demean the man based on no facts but only "feelings" might have something to do with their feelings towards people with dark skin, especially when it's coming from someone who I've seen make racist statements on this message board before.

[WriteDown]

27. I think suspicion is that....

He may love power too. I think its inferred by some of his grandiosity and his tendency to be a little over-the-top. Its just a little fun speculation at this point, but I do not think it is racially based. I think Chavez has decent motives, but he has made some boneheaded moves in the past.

[harmonicon]

29. he may love power, as may any elected leader

However, he's stood in elections in the past, and tried to pass referendums, sometimes with success, and sometimes without success - there is absolutely no evidence that he would do anything illegal to seize control of the government of Venezuela, where as his opposition, backed by the US, has launched an illegal coup in the past. I don't think "gut feeling" is a reason to think that someone would be corrupt. As I mentioned upthread, this really does remind me of what wing-nut right wingers are saying about Obama, based on "gut feelings", but no facts. Would anyone argue that the "feelings" people have about Obama being a "secret, socialist, ant-American Muslim" are anything but xenophobia and racism? I don't think we should tolerate those sort of things from anywhere.

[ohio2007]

35. Mugabe was voted out but he still holds power

color has nothing to do with it

[harmonicon]

36. and?

What does that have to do with anything? Pointing out that a black man was voted out of office but hasn't relinquished power isn't related to others thinking that another non-white person being voted out of office also wouldn't leave? Mugabe has ruined his country's economy and used violence and corrupt courts to destroy opposition. Chavez has presided over massive economic growth for his country, and has proven to an honest and democratic leader. For someone to accuse him of doing something illegal or undemocratic based on no facts what-so-ever seems like the person making the accusation must have an agenda to be smearing the man's reputation.

[ohio2007]

41. and

socialism rocks the vote

:headbang:

Hugo's money tap is ready to drop below $60 bbl.Hard to "buy" friends and influence people now that the good times they are a changin


maybe if it remains that low for several months you will get a clue

For someone to accuse him of doing something illegal or undemocratic based on no facts what-so-ever seems like the person making the accusation must have an agenda to be smearing the man's reputation.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2008/10/23/en_pol_esp_european-parliament_23A2086609.shtml

[harmonicon]

43. so you give me a link to an article from a right wing venezuelan newspaper?! give me a break!

Here's the important bit from that little piece of trash, which I assume you overlooked:

"With the exception of one member of the European Parliament, the Party of European Socialists (PES), the Green Party and the Group of the European United Left/Nordic Green Left (GUE/NGL) decided not to participate in the vote as a boycott over what they consider a move that "scorns" the European Parliament. "

[ohio2007]

44. your excerpt shows your true colors. How about reading between the lines of this Yahoo article

But , I suppose this isn't the flavor of kool aid you believe either.

snip
Shoddy electrical service is now one of Venezuelans' top concerns, according to a recent poll, and may be a factor in elections next month for governors and mayors in which Chavez allies are expected to lose key posts, in part on complaints of poor services.

The problem suggests that Chavez, with his ambitious international alliances and promises to end capitalism, risks alienating supporters by failing to focus on basic issues like electricity, trash collection and law enforcement.


With so much energy in Venezuela, how can we be without power?" asked Fernando Aponte, 49, whose slum neighborhood of Las Delicias in San Felix spent 15 days without electricity -- leading him to block a nearby avenue with burning tires in protest.
snip
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081023/wl_nm/us_venezuela_electricity

Obviously, Fernando must be a collaborator :eyes:

results from months of fixed price controls

A mototaxi driver burns tires during a protest in Cucuta, at the northeastern border with Venezuela, Thursday, Oct. 9, 2008. Mototaxi drivers closed the border to protest Venezuelan government measures to stop smuggling of food and other merchandise to Colombia.
(AP Photo/Luis Robayo)


just saying.
Would the Party of European Socialists (PES), the Green Party and the Group of the European United Left/Nordic Green Left (GUE/NGL) condone this show of civil disobedience ?

hmmm.

Well, could it be a photo shop job ?


:shrug:

[harmonicon]

46. I am an unapologetic leftist, and I proudly show my true colours.

Isn't that picture form Columbia? That's the way it seems. So, someone wants to protest suspected foreign aid. Woo hoo.

I am an unapologetic leftist, and I proudly show my true colours. What are your true colours? What problem do you have with Democracy? Why don't you respect the choice that the people of Venezuela have made to elect the leader they want?

The other part of your post serves only to highlight exactly why opposition figures would want to sabotage the power grid.

[happydreams]

24. Goddamnit! Proofread your posts!

Is it an epidemic or what? Time and again I see posts that are unintellible due to lousy, lazy writing. Whew!

[WriteDown]

3. Interesting...

Wonder why so little work has been done on the power grid? I am also curious what year they separated the power grid for the oil production. That was a smart idea.

[Robbien]

5. For the last half century the Venezuelan treasury has gone into the pockets

of the US supported rich elite. Little if any public infrastructure work has been done.

Almost everything in Venezuela was crumbling. Chavez has been restoring public services and infrastructure for less than eight years battling armies of saboteurs with every move he makes.

Hopefully now all the engineers working for the public utility are actually working FOR the public utility.

[WriteDown]

6. Didn't answer my question....

When was the power supply separated?

Seems like 8 years is more than enough time with the vast wealth they've accumulated to completely overhaul the electrical grid. You sound like the people who make excuses as to why we can't build effective rail lines in the US.

[Robbien]

12. Up until the last couple of months the electric grid has been just fine

In fact Venezuela has only nationalized the electricity grid two years ago and has been busy expanding it to extend electricity to the poor areas which have not been on the grid.

And you sound like the people who make excuses for the US hatred propaganda campaign of "socialist" leftie Chavez.

Another thing, IMO US rail is deplorable. The state it is in is indefensible. IMO it is only in that state because BigOil believes it is more profitable to ship goods by across country by gas guzzling trucks and planes. Even more profitable to have people commute by SUVs rather commuter trains.

[WriteDown]

13. Even Chavez admits...

that they grid is decrepit so you'll have to take it up with him.

I actually like Chavez's intentions. I just don't put him on a pedestal. He tried price controls that were an abject failure. Many posters said they would be for fundamental reasons and they were mocked. Now Chavez has made necessary corrections which is a good thing.

US rail is a nightmare, but there are legitimate reasons. Europe consists more of villages. You are unlikely to own property in Germany for instance and are likely to rent. People therefore tend to cluster which makes rail much easier. You won't find any houses with a backyard unless its a farm or hunting land and those are handed down for many generations. In the US a lot of people own property and things are more spread out. Its hard to find places to put rail routes that will be satisfactory unless you use eminent domain.

[Pavulon]

28. free...free falling..

oil prices will jack up petro states with single thread economies.

Not like any multinational is going to invest cash in there. I am sure we can sell them some modern generation, distribution, and monitoring systems..for cash up front.

The man in red is a che wannabe. Seems like hard times are on the way for hugo. Maybe he can sell back the migs.

Oh shit, russia is an oil state too.

[ronnie624]

31. Oh, I get it: red shirt, Che; communism

You should just go back to calling him a communist despot. It makes a little more sense than this sort of drivel. It is well established that you appose Chavez, but nothing in your message offers any justification for that opposition.

Thinking people are not easily beguiled by the use of crude symbology.

[Doctor Cynic]

14. You know, maybe it's just plain old lack of maintenance?

Some time ago the main freeway linking Caracas and the airport crumbled. Who's to blame for that, other than sheer negligence?

[AngryAmish]

16. Looks like Chavez caught himself some wreckers

Now the people know who to blame. Damn engineers, they are always trying to fuck with the rights of the people.

Rumor has it some doctors are plotting against Chavez also...

[Judi Lynn]

19. This pattern has been in place during the run-up to previous elections, as well.

Do yourself a favor, and make the effort to know something about whatever it is you're attempting to discuss. Nothing works like the truth, rather than stupid potshots.

[WriteDown]

22. I've been reading....

Dilbert for years and I know how shifty those engineers can be. Just look at Wally.

[AngryAmish]

32. or Zimbu the monkey

although he had an unfair advantage with the prehensile tail to move the mouse...

[Igel]

17. What is "culpable favoring of sabotage"?

Apparently it's not simple "sabotage", unless the BNS has translation problems.

"Favoring" is just a strange word, IMHO, in this setting.

[ohio2007]

33. finger pointing

investments in infrastructure are not keeping pace and with oil in the $60 bbl range, don't expect in any improvements when reducing the supply of oil to the market will mean even less income for upkeep let alone upgrade of the countries grid.

jmo

[cobalt1999]

21. Sounds like the old Soviet Union

Something goes wrong, find a low level person and hang the saboteur sign around his neck.

[Pavulon]

26. Infastructure Problem. They can just invest...oh wait

they will get no international investment due to history of nationalizing assets. They will have to pay up front or borrow, that is pricey.

Oil is declining. I have said hugo's life depends on high dollar oil.

If it drops, he may too.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Still with the death wishes, huh?

If the people get fed up with him, he'll get voted out. Why isn't that enough to satisfy you?

[ohio2007]

34. political suicide is not an option when you 'Rule by Decree"

Hugo needs to pump WAY more oil to pay for that Russian hardware
in due time


Collaborators will be found and publicly made examples of as necessary.

[harmonicon]

37. ah, I see your agenda

please disregard my reasoned response to another post of yours - it was obviously entirely in jest, because you've already made up your mind to believe pure fiction despite all of the facts with which you're confronted.

There is a word for this: crazy. There is yet another word that I could use to describe this behaviour of yours, which seems particularly fitting, since you mentioned Mugabe in that other post, but apparently I'm not allowed to use that word on DU. However, I will say that a spade is a spade, and that if it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck.... ah... what's the point in making points to you? Go see a doctor.

[ohio2007]

42. lol

you can't handle the truth that Hugo travels down the same trail blazed Mugabe road so you call posters racist and loco because they don't drink your brand of kool aid!

nice .

You won't drag me down to your troll level and beat me with your experience.


The world is in an economic downturn. I don't see Hugo's influence growing like you do.


the 'euro-trash' don't favor his politics either
http://english.eluniversal.com/2008/10/23/en_pol_esp_european-parliament_23A2086609.shtml

[Pavulon]

45. Voted out and leaving are not the same for a former

coup leader.. This oil pinch is going to hurt. Maybe GE should go to ranchos and offer free power now.

[wvbygod]

38. Right out of the Soviet playbook

Blame failing state run infrastructure on some innocent workers. Are people still falling for this crap?

[harmonicon]

39. apparently you're falling for some crap:

call anyone that the US government tells you is a "bad guy" names, and compare them to the soviets.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Damed odd weakness, isn't it? No facts required whatsoever, only pure venom.

You've seen where that eventually took Joe McCarthy: died of alcoholism after being discredited, and shunned by decent people after he attempted to destroy every imagined "liberal" or Democrat he could get in his sights.

His filthy spirit lives on, unfortunately. It's probably still drunk.


Why is it the Democrats NEVER did anything like this, but the Republican Party is overflowing with these deformities?

[Billy Burnett]

47. Like Enron?

Enron's "innocent workers" created blackouts all over California.