Rejuvenated Georgian President Cites U.S. Ties as ‘Turning Point’ in Conflict

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

Source: NY Times

He added, “We will fight to the end, until the last Russian soldier leaves Georgian soil and this country is not going to be brought to the knees anymore. We are not surrendering, no matter what.”

Mr. Saakashvili’s latest show of bravado came only a day after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said that she and a special State Department envoy had explicitly and repeatedly warned him not to take any military action against Georgian separatists that might provoke Russia, cautioning that the United States was not prepared to back him militarily if he did. He also appeared to exaggerate the Pentagon’s planned relief operation, making it seem larger and further developed than it was.

“We already saw U.S. Air Force landing in Georgia despite Russians controlling the airspace,” he said, after a C-17 had touched down. “And we will see U.S. military ships entering Georgian ports despite Russians blocking it. That we will see.” He added, “These will be serious military ships.”

But the American military said that although the Navy had been ordered to assist in the humanitarian mission, it had not yet formed its plans and no ships were en route.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/world/europe/14saaka.html?em

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. This guy might need a med assessment. nt

[Schema Thing]

2. "ps.. don't forget to vote early and often for McCain, my heroic American friends"

[David__77]

3. So, if he's overthrown, is this bad for the GOP?

Just wondering. I mean, if they're actually investing in this guy, it seems strange since his actual position is weak. Russia could comparatively easily overthrow the Georgian state.

[daleo]

4. He's really pushing it

But he figures he can go back to his New York law practice if things don't work out.

[Karenina]

5. He could be parroting

EXACTLY what he perceives he's been told... And he may even be right!

[bemildred]

6. Interesting bit I found:

"What is really telling are two things:

First, it is now being reported in numerous blogs and by Jonathan S. Landay who has done a great job on this for McClatchy Newspapers that Team Bush made very clear to Russia that if Georgia went into South Ossetia and Abkhazan, Russia could “take care of business” provided it did not go into Georgia proper but did not tell that to Georgia which had it known that would have behaved differently – one would hope.

Richard Armitage who besides being Number 2 at the State Department under Colin Powell and a combat veteran but also uses a bit of wit to enliven the proceedings is quoted as stating "The Russians have clearly overreacted but President Saakashvili...for some reason seems to think he has a hall pass from this administration.” I strongly suspect that Scheunemann told Saakashvili that the US would back his play.

Secondly,CNN had an interview with Saakashvili with the header stating “Georgian president to McCain: Move 'from words to deeds'”. In the body of the interview as reported in CNN:

“Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili on Wednesday called for John McCain and other American leaders to do more for Georgia in their response to the conflict in his country. ‘Yesterday, I heard Sen. McCain say, ‘We are all Georgians now,’ Saakashvili said on CNN’s American Morning. ‘Well, very nice, you know, very cheering for us to hear that, but OK, it’s time to pass from this. From words to deeds.’ ”

Saakashvili said action is more important than rhetoric in the face of “brutal” and “deliberate” Russian violence. He urged the United States to take the lead in installing an international peacekeeping force. I should note that Obama has called for that from Day One – in fact for several years.

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/08/doublespeak_on.html

[Shakespeare]

8. This reminds me SO much of the diplomatic behind-the-scenes on Iraq/Kuwait in 1990.

And just as disturbing, too.

[bemildred]

13. Good analogy.

I discussed that comparison with Daleo a day or so back. And that was before I knew about the McCain angle.

I don't think it's going to work out the same as 1990, though.

But it's very Bushite to push your luck, to bluff.

[daleo]

11. So the Bush admin suckered the Georgians into attacking

But told the Russians they had a free hand, as long as they didn't go past the breakaway provinces?

If it is true (always a big if), one might hypothesize:

- it was a nice little test of Russia's weapons and tactics, a sort of war game both sides would be interested in observing.
- it was a quid pro quo for Kosovo (ok, you can "liberate" South Ossetia the way we "liberated" Kosovo).
- it was a way to dampen down the expectations of the Georgians re: the west and NATO helping them out, via a real world demonstration.

It's all pretty cynical stuff, but so is foreign relations.

[bemildred]

14. Maybe. I think we need to eliminate stupidity as a cause first though.

Most of the explanations you have suggest or offer some planned benefit to the US consistent with the real course of events, i.e. that it came out the way it was supposed to. I will need some more time to decide whether I think that has some truth to it. The reaction looked a lot like being stupified by the course of events.

[daleo]

18. It is hard to eliminate stupidity as a theory

Karl Popper said a theory had to be falsifiable to be scientifically valid. How could one disprove Bushian or neo-con stupidity?

[bemildred]

19. True.

Like disproving a negative, sort of. Or proving a falsehood. Still, there is Occam's Razor, if stupidity will do the job, no need to create a more elaborate thesis until the facts warrant it.

[amandabeech]

21. So we tell Saakashvili, "Don't do it," but this Scheuenmann (sp) and maybe Rove,

according to some give the guy a *wink-wink-we'll be there* and he does it with gusto. Maybe the blogger is right, and a recall would be in order after a decent interval.

Meanwhile, the thing has been on near boil for a couple of years, and really close in the past few months, and we tell Putin, if the Georgians do something, it's okay if you rough 'em up a little, perhaps thinking that Saakashvili is a nut and might as well let the Russians give him a little taste of it as a little metal prozac. Putin takes this as a red light and has the tank engines idling (and maybe doing a little goading on the side) waiting for the nut to do something stupid. However, its the Russians, perhaps with the butchers of Grozny and local guys with grudges, and given an inch, they take a mile.

It's somewhat reminiscent of the last dust-up between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon, minus, I hope, a presidential candidate and a limited hang-out green light to Hezbollah.

Is that the general idea that you folks are working on?

If that's the deal, we look really, really stupid, and McCain looks really, really dangerous.

Meanwhile, as I posted couple of days ago, we're trying to thread the needle between the two sides, and probably have made promises that we can't keep with regard to military deliveries of humanitarian supplies by sea and air. The Turks may stop us by sea, and the Russians may try to stop us by air (although that would be more difficult).

Let's hope Obama's 300 advisers can do better.

[bemildred]

23. I think you have it, with a quibble here and there.

The Second Lebanon War has some similarities in how it was botched up, although the action was much different, but the comparison that first came to me was the dust-up in Beirut a few months back between Hezbollah and the "anti-Syrian forces", which had a similar flavor of too-many-cooks foreign policy and encouraging our littlebuddies/stooges to bite off more than they can chew; and then us (the US) being left flat-footed when they (our little buddies) got their clocks cleaned and their toys taken away. It has the same odor of Bushite unreality based thinking and propensities to bluff and threaten when they hold a busted hand; that has been in evidence from the time the Bushites seized control of the US' government. When has Bush NOT overplayed his hand and then botched the attempts to clean up the mess and minimize the damage?

[Occulus]

22. Q: "How could one disprove Bushian or neo-con stupidity?"

A: Look in their wallets.

[Judi Lynn]

7. First time I've ever heard he fired rubber bullets into protesters and sent his military to destroy

a radio station. That just didn't make it into our own ace media reporting here! Not a peep. From the original article posted by Guy Whitey Corngood:

Last fall, he deployed riot police with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons against unarmed demonstrators. He also used his police to destroy an opposition television station, which went off the air as masked officers stormed it. His critics say that while he is an unwavering American ally, his record as a democrat was long ago checkered.

Apparently these tactics are fine with _Bush as long as he likes the President who employs them, is that it?

Apparently it's fine with our news media, as well. Super. Couldn't be better, where's the beef? Who are they to rock the boat?

Be sure to remember this the next time the media open fire on a leftist Latin American President. Ask yourself if it would be a problem if Saakashvili or someone like him did it.

[sofa king]

9. There is no morally superior side in this conflict.

And the stage-show entry of the United States into it, designed to swing an election at the expense of innocent lives, simply underscores that fact.

[ohio2007]

10. I'll say

Russians (Osetian) Robbers stealing computers and money from Bank in Gori




http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b20_1218743275

but only the locals know the real story in Gori
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=79b_1218748430

[fascisthunter]

16. gee... I'm surprised you take a side

:eyes:

[rinsd]

12. Great belligerent asshole is gonna drag us into a war while his paid lobbyist is advising McCain!

[fascisthunter]

15. Oh... he's a gift.... keep talking buddy

we want to hear more!

Like how maybe the GOP told you to start the whole fucking thing because they promised to back you up. Smells like another "Iran/Contra"...

[natrat]

17. maybe giving things away to get the ok from russia to bomb iran

taiwan to the chinese?

[Selatius]

20. He's an idiot who blundered into a war he could not win. nt