Georgian and Russian Forces Facing Off in Rebel Province

[Faygo Kid]

Source: New York Times

GORI, Georgia — Russian troops entered a breakaway region of Georgia on Friday after Georgian forces pushed into the capital of the pro-Russian enclave, in a sharp escalation of the longstanding conflict.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin declared that “war has started” and President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia accused Russia of a “well-planned invasion," saying he had mobilized Georgia’s military reserves.

Reports conflicted Friday about whether Georgian or Russian forces had won control of the capital of the rebel province, South Ossetia. It was unclear late Friday whether ground combat had taken place between the two sides in the capital, Tskhinvali.

Georgia accused Russia of unleashing an air bombing campaign and claimed that hundreds of civilians had been killed; Russia denied those accusations.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/world/europe/09georgia.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

---

The bold is mine.

We have a bigger story here than John Edwards or the Olympics, my friends.

[IsItJustMe]

1. Yes we do. But, we as Americans are so fucking dumbed down by now from our bull shit media and

government, we don't know right from left anymore. Excuse my French.

[Doctor Cynic]

2. In AD 2008

War was beginning.

Saakashvili: What happen ?

Georgian Military Commander: Somebody set up us the bomb.

Secretary: We get signal.

Saakashvili: What !

Secretary: Main screen turn on.

Saakashvili: It's you !!

Putin: How are you gentlemen !!

Putin: All your base are belong to us.

Putin: You are on the way to destruction.

Saakashvili: What you say !!

Putin: You have no chance to survive make your time.

Putin: Ha ha ha ha ....

Secretary: Captain !! *

Saakashvili: Take off every 'MiG'!!

Saakashvili: You know what you doing.

Saakashvili: Move 'MiG'.

Saakashvili: For great justice.

[formercia]

3. A well planned distraction

"We have a bigger story here" That's the whole point.

Remember the last big distraction with Israel attacking Hezbullah in Lebanon that was egged on by Bush gang as a distraction? Same game is being played here.

Junior wants his WW IV as an excuse to stay in power. He doesn't care how many Millions of innocent civilians get killed, as long as he's the 'Decider.'

[jwlashta]

5. What!?

Could you fill in the large, gaping holes in your argument, please--I cannot see the logical connections from one point to the next.

[formercia]

9. The Georgian authorities are right-wing reactionaries

and closely tied to the Bush Administration and the GWOT. They want to join NATO and have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq (coalition of the willing). Just like during the Crusades, when princes supplied men at arms to fight Islam, Georgia is doing the same for the current Crusade.

Their flag says it all:



They were egged on by the Bush Administration to mount an attack as a distraction to current political crises here in the US. IMHO

[jwlashta]

10. Okay... still not sure, but

what I really meant was the whole WWIV thing and Bush staying in power (unless you meant McBush).

[formercia]

12. Bush's criminal activities are based on the powers

of a 'War President.' He has no other legal argument as a fig leaf for his position in regard to the Unitary Executive.

Without a War, he is nothing.

A World conflict would, in his mind, cement his position to remain in power, suspend elections and dissolve Congress.

The only way he can avoid prosecution for his crimes is to become dictator.

[ohio2007]

15. suspend elections and dissolve Congress ?

SO, Obama is under house arrest in Hawaii?
Or, is he "in on this whole plan" of yours ?
yes, its all coming together......:eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. Oh geez.

They were egged on by the Bush Administration to mount an attack as a distraction to current political crises here in the US. IMHO

No, no other countries have problems of their own. It's all about America.

[eridani]

4. Russian troops are popular in Ossetia

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/09/georgia.russia1

To many Russians this vast geopolitical retreat from places which were part of Russia long before the dawn of communist rule brought no bonus in relations with the west. The more Russia drew in its horns, the more Washington and its allies denounced the Kremlin for its imperial ambitions.

Unlike in eastern Europe, for instance, today in breakaway states such as South Ossetia or Abkhazia, Russian troops are popular. Vladimir Putin's picture is more widely displayed than that of the South Ossetian president, the former Soviet wrestling champion Eduard Kokoity. The Russians are seen as protectors against a repeat of ethnic cleansing by Georgians.

In 1992, the west backed Eduard Shevardnadze's attempts to reassert Georgia's control over these regions. The then Georgian president's war was a disaster for his nation. It left 300,000 or more refugees "cleansed" by the rebel regions, but for Ossetians and Abkhazians the brutal plundering of the Georgian troops is the most indelible memory.

<snip>

In the Balkans, the west promoted the disintegration of multiethnic Yugoslavia, climaxing with their recognition of Kosovo's independence in February. If a mafia-dominated microstate like Montenegro can get western recognition, why shouldn't flawed, pro-Russian, unrecognised states aspire to independence, too?

Given its extraordinary ethnic complexity, Georgia is a post-Soviet Union in miniature. If westerners readily conceded non-Russian republics' right to secede from the USSR in 1991, what is the logic of insisting that non-Georgians must remain inside a microempire which happens to be pro-western?

[Karenina]

6. Very good question.

[jwlashta]

7. I like the article

Although I am still a little unclear about Russia's motivations in entering the conflict. Does Russia want to usurp the territory or just help the state secede from Georgia?

I guess my problem is in asking where does it end? Surely, not everyone in the state is pro-Russian. I have read that South Ossetia is largely a pro-Russian state, but to what extent? Is it a large majority? Is it a majority centered around the major cities? How goes the political alignments according to the regions? I realize that Georgia is a small country, and therefore South Ossetia must be quite small.

Anyway, I think this article deserves its own thread; I'm sure it could elicit a great amount of discussion.

[Sanka123]

13. Russia tryes to save the osseten's people

Hello. I am writing to you from Russia. I heard that on your news, saying that we, Russian, first attacked the Georgian villages, kill civilians. This is not true. Indeed, Georgian troops have started massive shelling of Tskhinvali, late at night, when all were sleeping. A few hours earlier, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, said on television that the armed attack and all will not be resolved peacefully. Georgian troops shelled residential areas, thereby killing innocent civilians. By that time killed at least not in 2000 innocent people. Russian peacekeepers who support peace in the region, shelling at the defeat. All wounded impossible to withdraw to a safe area because the Georgian troops wounded trying to achieve. Our television correspondents are leaving victims of the hot point. I know that among you, perhaps, there are those who are against the Russian policy. But just painful to hear what actually was not.
Перевод:
Здравствуйте. Я пишу вам из России. Я Слышал, что по вашим новостям, говорят что мы, русские, первыми напали на грузинские села, убиваем мирных людей. Это не правда. На самом деле, грузинские войска, начали массированный обстрел Цхинвали, поздно ночью, когда все спали. А за несколько часов до этого, президент Грузии Михаил Саакашвили, говорил по телевидению, что вооруженного нападения не будет и все разрешится мирным путем. Грузинские войска обстреливали жилые кварталы, убивая тем самым мирное население. К этому моменту убито минимум 2000 не в чем не повинных людей. Российских миротворцов, которые поддерживают мир в регионе, обстреливают на поражение. Всех раненных невозможно вывести на безопасную территорию, потому что грузинские войска пытаются добить раненных. Наши телевизионные корреспонденты уезжают пострадавшими из горячей точки. Я знаю, что среди вас, возможно, есть те, кто против Российской политики. Но просто больно слышать то, чего на самом деле не было.

[ohio2007]

16. question

Россия говорит, Украина помогает Грузии

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L9126746.htm

Что вы ответ о причине Putins марионетка, Medeved, должна заниматься боевых действий в Украине?

В то же время является Путин занято Haliburten?



Россия увеличивает военную силу с чеченскими Mercs
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/6981/Russia_Increases_Military_Force_with_Chechen_Mercs/

btw,
what other sites are you visiting to get the word out ?

[Sanka123]

17. Ukraine is elder brother of Russia. There will newer be war

Ukraine is elder brother of Russia. There will be no war even if Ushenko( USA son) will declare war with Russia. Like the will not be war with Geogia, as Geogrian people are ander the oppression of Saakashvilli. There is war between Saakashvilli and his people, there is war between Saakashvilli and his mind, but there will be no war between Russian people and Geoggian.

[dipsydoodle]

8. That's the trouble with you girls

you use common sense. There appears to be little doubt that South Ossetia , and Abkhazia come to that , wish to remain part of Russia and not part of a pro western lacky government which wasn't even fairly elected in western democracy terms.

edit to add latest news at 11am GMT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550804.stm

[Overseas]

14. Interesting background from the Times Online UK link

From Times Online
August 8, 2008
Analysis: why the Russia-Georgia conflict matters to the West

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4486297.ece

Georgia has been saddled for the best part of two decades with breakaway regions in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, both supported by Russia as part of the Kremlin’s strategy to weaken Tbilisi’s authority. Nevertheless, seeking to reintegrate the separatist provinces by force is a risky, some would say reckless, move that threatens to trigger an all-out war between Russia and Georgia.

On paper the small Georgian military is no match for the might of Russia. But Mr Saakashvili has calculated that his friends in the West, notably America and Britain, will protect him. Russia must also shoulder responsibility for the crisis. Under President Putin, the Kremlin increased its support for Georgia’s breakaway regions, offering their inhabitants Russian citizenship and arming separatist forces while pretending to be honest broker.

The Kremlin tried to break Georgia’s resolve by deporting its citizens from Russia, imposing blockades and banning the import of Georgian goods. It had been hoped that the election this year of President Medvedev might lead to an easing of tensions between the two neighbours. It seems more likely that, thanks to Mr Putin’s continued influence as Prime Minister and the role played by hardliners in the military, Mr Medvedev may instead find himself embroiled in war.

The West, in particular America, has stoked the regional fire. At the Nato summit in Bucharest this year it pressed for Georgia and Ukraine’s membership of the alliance. The move was blocked by the Europeans but Nato did give a commitment to offer the two countries membership later. That move was seen in Moscow as a challenge to its dominance in what it calls the “near abroad”, the former Soviet republics.