Ecuador, Mexico probe deaths of Mexicans in raid

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: Routers

Ecuador, Mexico probe deaths of Mexicans in raid
QUITO, March 6 (Reuters) - Ecuador and Mexico are investigating whether up to 10 Mexicans, possibly students and professors, died in a weekend air strike that killed a top Colombian rebel leader and sparked a heated diplomatic dispute in the Andean region.

Mexican student Lucia Morett, in her 20s, was wounded in the attack on the rebel base and is being held and treated at a military hospital in Ecuador. Her father told Mexican media she was a drama student working on an academic thesis in Ecuador.

Colombian forces bombed a rebel camp in Ecuador, killing the No. 2 leader of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC. The incursion infuriated Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa, who sent troops to its border and cut diplomatic ties with Bogota.

More than 20 others died in the attack.

"There are chances that some of those bodies are Mexicans," Ecuador's Security Minister Gustavo Larrea told reporters in Quito on Thursday. He said five Mexican families were working with Ecuador to try to identify bodies.

Mexico's Foreign Ministry said it was working with Ecuador to establish whether there were Mexicans other than Morett in the camp.

Morett's presence at the cap sparked speculation in Mexico and Colombia that FARC rebels have a support organization in Mexico. But other reports said the Mexicans who may have died in the camp were there to study the FARC.


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/americasCrisis/idUSN06246962

[Warpy]

1. This story just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

Ecuador and Venezuela have been models of international decorum in comparison to Colombia.

[AlphaCentauri]

7. can't argue that colombia is a model state

it's the biggest supplier of cocaine to american consumers.

[Warpy]

9. ...and has a hard line right wing government

in bed with the US right wing. They're about the most miserably repressive bunch in power in Central America right now.

[EFerrari]

35. We've certainly never heard of paramilitaries in Ecuador

taking chainsaws to dissenters. Or, Venezuela either.

No one has yet asked why Uribe killed those people instead of apprehending and trying them. Who does he think he is, Bush?

[AlphaCentauri]

61. Actually they could get more info apprehending them than just 2 laptops n/t

[EFerrari]

62. But then they would have to deal with live people who could dispute

their utter bullshit.

[MaryCeleste]

83. What makes you think they didn't?

I do not believe the general description of the strike. Infiltration makes much more sense. Under those circumstances, it would have been easy to grab a few prisoners.

[AlphaCentauri]

87. there are no details on how the operation was carried

all they show is the colombian soldiers getting to the location to pick up the bodies. Those soldiers could got there hours after the attack. That is one of the reasons the OAS considered the proof that Urine presented not strong evidences.

[MaryCeleste]

89. There have been a number of articles which state aerial bombing

followed by heloborne assault, most reference statements made by the President of Ecuador. However, since they all kissed and made up yesterday...

[Fountain79]

86. Models of international decorum?

I don't see Colombia building their troops on the border. I don't see Colombia threatening war and I didn't see Colombia being the first to cut off diplomatic relations. You can argue that Colombia was in the wrong for attacking the terrorist group on Ecuadorian soil, fine, but let's be realistic here.

[ronnie624]

97. You have a very bizarre view of reality:

"I don't see Colombia building their troops on the border."

"You can argue that Colombia was in the wrong for attacking the terrorist group on Ecuadorian soil..."

:rofl:

[Fountain79]

100. If you can't see the difference between a regular military presence

and an escalation of the military to incite a war then politics might not be your strong suit.

[bemildred]

104. Bombing a foreign country is a sound casus belli, I assume you know that?

Ecuador has every right to go to war for that, and anybody that wants to has a right to join in. The fact that Colombia cannot contain its internal civil war within its own borders has nothing to do with it, and it certainly does not give them a right to bomb their neighbors.

[Pavulon]

2. UNAM Aligned (communistas)

If I am hanging out studying hamas for a while and get shot during a battle that should be a risk I am aware of..

AP

The department did not identify either of the dead, but it appears that one of them _ and the wounded woman _ were members of a radical student group at Mexico's National Autonomous University, or UNAM, who attended a leftist conference in Ecuador's capital last month.

The school issued a statement expressing "its concern over the possibility that another member of the university community may have been killed" in the raid.

A Web site operated by a radical UNAM student movement, Okupacheweb, confirmed the man named by the newspaper was a member of the Mexican FARC Support Group, and that the wounded woman, Lucia Andrea Morett, was as well.

Lot of stir over dead communists.

[Peace Patriot]

3. You keep saying that, Pavulon--first about one "dead communst"...

Raul Reyes, the chief hostage negotiator for the Presidents of France, Ecuador and Venezuela.

"Lot of stir over a dead communist."

Now you've added an "s," to include these young people from Mexico. "Lot of stir over dead communistS."

Are they not human? Or...just sort of dead vermin? Rats? Cockroaches?

:puke:

[Pavulon]

6. US policy cross all past and current administrations

subvert communism. That means fund and where possible kill communists. From Greece to Latin America.

He may be head chef and bottle washer but he is leads the number 2 guy in a group that takes hostages and kills innocent people. That makes him a military target in colombia and a target for covert operations, plainly put kidnapping or death (or both) anywhere in the world.

This is the reality which exists.

[AlphaCentauri]

17. Anyways I'm not willing to vote for a republican n/t

[Pavulon]

49. Budgets are approved by whom??

read up. The CIA is funded by which branch?

[AlphaCentauri]

57. do you mean both parties are the same thing?

thats what I understand

[Peace Patriot]

19. Death to all "communists"? Jeez. I guess we should invade Italy, then,

and France, and bomb their parliaments.

[Peace Patriot]

22. And what about the White House? Have they not kidnapped people off the streets

in Italy, in Egypt and other countries, and tortured them and put some to death? And that is just ONE of their crimes against humanity. They have kidnapped an entire country, and, in the course of it, slaughtered 1.2 million innocent people, and tortured many more, and wounded millions, and created millions of refugees. Do "we" bomb and invade the White House for crimes that pale before the crimes of the FARC, or even the horrendous crimes of the Colombian security forces? No, we don't. We seek peaceful, lawful, constitutional, productive solutions to problems! We don't bomb people whose names we don't even know, and murder them in their sleep. We don't deliberately destroy a hopeful peace process, that has successfully gotten hostages freed. We don't deliberately provoke another democratic country--or any county--violating their space, their laws and their sovereignty, to KILL people. That is the "law of the jungle" that the Bush Junta has tried to change our Constitution INTO. Gangsterism. Pre-emptive war. Peremptory execution. Lawlessness!

The ONLY excuse for doing something like that--and it is a VERY tenuous excuse, needing great justification--is if legitimate forces at your command are in "hot pursuit"--and that was NOT the case with the peremptory murder of Raul Reyes and more than 20 other people, who, it turns out, included Mexican STUDENTS. That is what President Rafael Correa has said. They were all ASLEEP. There was no "hot pursuit." They were targeted (by U.S. surveillance!) and BOMBED. And THEN, the Colombian military crossed the border and started shooting people--some of them SHOT IN THE BACK--as they were running around in their pajamas with no shoes, trying to escape being slaughtered. It was a "turkey shoot."

Now tell me again that that was "justified"--bombing Ecuador, invading Ecuador, killing everyone present in a camp in Ecuador, in their sleep. Not even the most Diehard "warrior"--if he has any decency left in him--can justify THAT. A massacre--in violation of dozens of international laws and treaties.

And what if Ingrid Betancourt HAD been present--a distinct possibility, since President Correa said he was in negotiations with Raul Reyes to obtain her release?

You MIGHT say that a raid on hostage-holders COULD BE justified, IF all other hope of their release was gone. But how can you justify it, if you KNOW that successful hostage negotiations have just occurred, and that more are in the works? And how can you justify BOMBING a camp site that might contain hostages? Not invading it with soldiers, under orders to try to IDENTIFY innocent parties before they peremptorily shoot anybody--but BOMBING it, from the air, at the risk of blowing everybody there to smithereens--and doing so while the camp is ASLEEP! You cannot justify this. It utterly lawless and murderous.

And THAT is why the Presidents of Ecuador, France, Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, Mexico, Nicaragua and others--across the political spectrum--have condemned it. ONLY the Bush/U.S. approves lawless and murderous actions, because THEY are lawless and murderous, just like Colombia.

Furthermore, this is WHY the Presidents of Ecuador and Venezuela--countries that border Colombia--have sent military battalions to reinforce their borders. Because they are dealing with a lawless and murderous state, Colombia, which obeys no rules, no laws, and not even diplomatic courtesy. They LIED to Rafael Correa about what they were doing. How can he trust them? How can anyone trust them? And thus, the Bushites and their puppet, Uribe, have created a dangerous war atmosphere in South America, where, only days ago, there was peace, diplomacy and LAW.

Rumsfeld & co. are a gigantic wrecking crew--smashing civil order, laws, and countless lives wherever they go. THEY are "terrorists" on a massive scale. In this case, they have deliberately smashed a diplomatic process that was WORKING. Chavez, Correa, Sarkovy and others had identified the elements in FARC that wanted a peaceful settlement of their 40+ year civil war with the murdering, torturing government of Colombia, and were successfully negotiating hostage releases, and laying the ground work for peace talks. At orders from the Bushites, Uribe destroyed this productive, hopeful effort--for reasons of war profiteering and oil profiteering. Not for justice.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

21. Do you actually think you're educating anyone with copying and pasting

the same dumb ass post every single time? Jacobo Arbenz and his supporters were not communists. Neither was my wife's aunt when she was murdered in Greece you fucking douche bag.

[Pavulon]

47. Greece was a Win

it was a war, cold or not. They killed people, we killed people. Greece was not a soviet state at the end of the day.

I was not station chief in Greece. Got a problem take it up with a dead guy.

[Solon]

50. You are an asshole...

Greece was a fucking WIN?!?! How many thousands died because of our actions? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[AlphaCentauri]

59. were you at the Bay of Pigs Invasion ?

I would like to know that story from some one who was there.

[Pavulon]

105. Dulles, Bissel wrote

documents on this. Most have been released under foia. There are accounts from US backed fighters in the National Archive and available online.

MOst university libraries should have these.

Operation Zapata: The "Ultrasensitive" Report and Testimony of the Board of Inquiry on the Bay of Pigs, introduction by Luis Aguilar, University Publications of America, 1984.

David Atlee Phillips, The Night Watch, Ballantine, 1977.

Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., A Thousand Days: John F Kennedy and the White House, Houghton Mifflin, 1965.

Peter Wyden, Bay of Pigs: The Untold Story, Simon and Schuster, 1979.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

66. No I think I'll take it up with

Mr fake ass GI Joe wannabe himself. The dead guy is not here to defend this bullshit policy. You are. Are you trying to win the "No Shit Sherlock Award " or something like that? I'll tell you once again since you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. We all know what happened in the cold war. Probably some of us know even more than you. We fucking get it. But apparently you feel the need like the parrot that you are to remind us every single time somebody writes the words South America in a thread. You seem to be the only one here defending this under the guise of "Oh no I'm just telling it like it is". Again I will remind you that these are human beings we are talking about and not every single HUMAN BEING who was a casualty of this insane policy was a COMMUNIST. To paraphrase Chris Tucker "do you understand the words that are coming out of my keyboard?". Are you so stupid that you can't seem to comprehend this very simple point?

Since you like to pretend that you're well read let me school you on something. I will bring this up as an example again. Guatemala under Arbenz was not in any way shape or form headed in the direction of becoming a "Soviet State". The US government made that up so that sheep like you would keep repeating this idiocy every time some poor 3rd world country falls victim to the likes of United Fruit. What happened in the end? Guatemala ended becoming a fascist state. So NO not every person that gets whacked by the pentagon or a CIA stooge is a filthy commie.

Unlike you some of us don't see commies under our beds and shit our pants. Some of us can comprehend US and Soviet foreign policy and actually have the decency to put it in terms of actual human lives. Maybe my commie detector is a little rusty but my jackass-fascist sympathizer radar works just fine.

[Pavulon]

106. I believe Arbenz

is listed in Legacy of Ashes (a good list of cia fuckups) as first step in many messes.

Never said "all" were bad guys. However the FARC have made themselves a target.

But if we heard about, it is bad news for the US intelligence community.

[High Plains]

23. And am I correct in thinking you support this policy?

[AlphaCentauri]

4. From the routes article

Morett's presence at the cap sparked speculation in Mexico and Colombia that FARC rebels have a support organization in Mexico. But other reports said the Mexicans who may have died in the camp were there to study the FARC.

good lack with your studies on hamas.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Nice! So what's your position on the 1st amendment, overrated?

I'm thinking you're not too keen on people who disagree with you.

Way to shine the light of freedom and liberty.

[Pavulon]

8. Read up

this is POLICY. You pay for it, every elected administration supports it. We "subvert" communism. That means killing people.

The constitution of the united states does not apply to colombians in Latin america or any other group that supports this policy as well.

That is a reality, not my opinion.

If you heard about it in the news, somebody really fucked up.

[AlphaCentauri]

10. Then you agree with that policy

and basics rigths for every human don't exist outside America?

[ngant17]

25. sounds like a mindset of Nazis

or rather, neo-Nazis.

This is your reality, not the reality of people who want peace and justice in society.

BTW can you go over the part about "we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal"? What part of this doesn't apply to Latin Americans?

Even a condemned prisoner on death row has civil rights. Don't guess you like civilized behavior, though.

[Pavulon]

44. Better see who funds the cia punk

before you call me a Nazi.. If you bothered to read rather than be an ignant ass you would see that every administration since the OSS paid to kill communists.

That is fact. You can wrap your little brain around the fact that that document does not cover the world, does not cover those who we pay to do our dirty work, and does not work world wide

There is a reality that exists that you can accept or ignore, but you can not change. Hit the LOC and learn. The world does not operate in the rules of your mind.

We have and will "subvert" communism. We will run covert ops, that means doing illegal, nasty things. That is what governments do.

As certain as death and taxes. Hit the books.

[AlphaCentauri]

58. Are you a CIA agent?

just wondering, you know a lot.

[Pavulon]

101. I read--a lot.(nt)

[Xipe Totec]

32. Senator McCarthy, I didn't recognize you!

My apologies, sir.

But aren't you supposed to be dead?

[AlphaCentauri]

36. LOL

:toast:

[Pavulon]

40. Like the contractors doing construction on the Death Star

when it was blown up. They knew the risk.

Dont like the policy that has been maintaince since the early 50's dont complain to me. I do not write it.

Just accept it as reality. At that point you can oppose or support it on your own outside of this message board.

[AlphaCentauri]

48. those contractor did not deserve to die neither the Mexicans students

The contractor were moving into hostile territory while the Mexican students and professor were in a neutral territory. Colombian governments have been killing people that they single out as communist thats maybe why they can end violence in their country.

[Pavulon]

51. If I go hang out with hamas

becoming dead is an outcome I would expect. They are not with the pope, or in cuba, becoming doctors. They are in a jungle camp with armed men. Being shot is part of that experience.

Watch clerks, they knew the risk.

[AlphaCentauri]

56. take a look at this discusion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x102304

[MaryCeleste]

11. That it was a known risk is valid point

Whether they were wannabe or apprentices really doesn't matter at this point.

[AlphaCentauri]

12. sorry they were not in colombian soil n/t

[MaryCeleste]

13. When you choose to be with people who have a dangerous lifestyle you accept the risks

regardless of locale. FARC is not a tatting society. If you hang with them, there are risks, regardless of location. Hopefully it was an informed choice voluntarily entered into.

[AlphaCentauri]

14. They could be from CNN, FOX , ABC, CBS or BBC

[MaryCeleste]

15. They as in?

[AlphaCentauri]

16. well what do you know about them?

[High Plains]

24. Better not stand too close to Uribe,eh?

[MaryCeleste]

28. I sure wouldn't

Presumptively the Mexican students in the camp were there of their own free will (vice as hostages). If they chose to be there, they had to know there were risk associated with it. Same thing with patch holder parties, and jumping out of perfectly good airplanes.

I respect their right to choose, but no one should not whine if foreseable consequences do happen

[AlphaCentauri]

31. to much NEWSMAX n/t

[MaryCeleste]

34. ah, what is newsmax and what does it have to do with Eribe?

[AlphaCentauri]

42. a news magazine with a spin, very popular in the east coast n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

20. What exactly is a "communista"? The word is "communist" .

If you're attempting to write in spanish the word is "comunista". Do you you jerk off every time you hear about a supposed dead "commie"?

[Pavulon]

45. I guess a typo negates

all us policy from 1948 forward. As cute as you like your tax dollar out that round in his body. Did you sign your name right?

You bought that 556 round from an m16 or a FNC.

Policy is policy. Not going to change any time soon.

But I don't know shit, just dismiss what I post.

[Solon]

46. Jesus, we KNOW this is policy, it is also WRONG!!!!

For fuck's sake, you act as if this shit doesn't even matter to you. "The only good Communist is a dead Communist." as far as we can tell, you SUPPORT such a policy.

[Pavulon]

52. Communism is bad, mmmkay

so that is why every fucking administration from Eisenhower to carter has paid to kill them. They are bad people, and we do bad things to bad people.

Soviet communism is dead, so the sooner fidel dies and the agreements around him are buried the better.

[Solon]

53. And that justifies murder?

You really are unbelievable.

[EFerrari]

54. "We do bad things to bad people". And that is why we are so beloved

around the world.

You are right about the predations of our government from Eisenhower to Carter. And, before and after, too.

[AlphaCentauri]

60. Yeap, he didn't mention Reagan n/t

[Pavulon]

103. I did not mention EVERY congress and President

since Truman who DIRECTLY supported this policy. Some, in effect, selected men for assassination. All knew what was going on. Even the briefest glimpse at the history of the CIA's interaction with Presidents reveals this. That is sky is blue fact. The NEXT president will make decisions that have negative impact, including death, on groups or individuals who work against us interest.

Choose to be ignorant of fact if you like.

[Solon]

55. Oh, and another thing, THIS is the standard the U.S. uses to call people Communist and then kill...

them:

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
–Dom Helder Camara, Brazilian archbishop

[EFerrari]

63. Exactamente.

The first "red scare" on this continent was in El Salvador, 1932. That cover was used to kill 10% of the (laboring) population who strangely didn't want to work for slave wages and live like livestock.

[Solon]

64. It just drives me up the wall...

I have two problems with this poster, the first is they have no fucking clue what communism is, pretty much everyone who shows the least bit of concern for the poor is labeled a communist, making the term lose all meaning, and nuance is lost. As a Marxist, I'm offended at this characterization, especially when the label is applied to people like Chavez or Morales, who, in my opinion, are far too moderate for being such "revolutionaries". Are they decent leaders? Yes. Are they Marxists or Communists? Uhm, I don't think so.

My second problem with this poster is that they would like the Government to kill me, and as someone who values his own life, I object to that. ;)

[EFerrari]

65. Being killed sucks. I'm with you on that one.

:)

[Solon]

67. Speaking from experience, I will say it sucks...

actually, OK, to be honest, I have little memory of it. I was 8, Mom tried to wake me up, my face was blue, I don't remember that, just waking up in the hospital and them getting ready to remove my tonsils, which were the size of golf balls, and I apparently already choked to death on them.

Then there was the time when I was around 11 when I fell in the frozen lake, but I don't need to get into too many details. That one I remember(when I was conscious), but anyways, I digressed, sorry about that.

And no, neither time did I see a "light" apparently I'm hell bound. :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

71. Was that a capitalist or a communist lake?

Disclaimer; I am not making fun of your traumatic experience. But somebody here has got me on a roll.

[Solon]

73. Oh, it was definately a capitalist lake...

An artificial lake made by a bunch of capitalists to attract businesses and the rich to the area. Of course, then, after the business folks had their fun building it, and the city grew around it, the city went all communist on their asses and the lake became public property. ;)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

74. LOL. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

70. Yeah but wouldn't it make you proud to be murdered for a good cause? n/t

[Solon]

72. Nah, not really, I prefer to live for a cause than die for one...

martyrdom has limited appeal to me and I don't have Che's good looks so I probably won't have my face spray painted on a wall or put on a t-shirt if I die. :)

BTW, Good to see ya, haven't involved myself in too many Chavez threads lately, gets kinda tiring dealing with stupidity.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

75. Good to see you too. Hey did you know that it's been US foreign policy

to kill communists (and any one else who might be in a 2 mile radius) for over 50 years? I had no idea until some else told me.

[Solon]

76. Well hell, it was news to me...

I'm glad Pavulon was able to educate us on our "ignorance". Next thing you'll know is that he will now tell us how the U.S. used to deport Anarchists! :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

77. WHAAAAAAAA???? Ok now I know you're pulling my leg. n/t

[Solon]

78. I would never do that!

;)

[EFerrari]

80. It used to be policy to call people communists to justify murder.

Now, "terrorist" works just as well.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

85. That's heresy. Can't you read? We kill bad people just like GI Joe and Rambo. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

69. "They are bad people, and we do bad things to bad people."

Tell that to the nuns in El Salvador who were raped and murdered or to Archbishop Romero. Oh wait you can't. Cause they're fucking dead. To quote another DUer "You are an asshole" mmkay Mr Garrison.

[bitchkitty]

82. Ignorance is bad, mmmkay.

And on Fidel's behalf, go to hell.

[ronnie624]

98. "Communism" has never been anything

but a convenient excuse for attacking weaker countries for political, strategic and economic reasons.

It may not be your intention, but your statements reveal much about you, including your profound, propaganda fed ignorance.

[Pavulon]

102. Like we attacked the USSR??

Your post does not correlate to the history of communism in latin america. The US, under ALL ADMINISTRATIONS, supported this policy with money and other efforts.

[ronnie624]

107. I placed quotation marks around the word "communism",

indicating your usage of the term.

For many decades, your ilk has used the specter of communism as a pretext for controlling the political and economic destinies of other countries, such as Italy, Greece, Korea, Viet Nam, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and so on. Subsequently, the historical record - including declassified material from the CIA and the State Department - has shown that communism in general and the Soviet Union in particular were never a real threat to the United States. Further, most of the policy planners of every administration since WWII, has known this.

You seem to be at ease with the act of attacking other countries - either covertly or overtly - that have never posed a threat to the US. I understand perfectly, that the CIA's covert wars are a part of our reality, but I do not accept them as being legal or morally proper, and I speak out against them at every opportunity.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

68. Funny, it seems that you make the same little typo every single time you decide to

illuminate us with your extensive knowledge of all things commie. You probably think that by adding the "a" at the end makes it sound even more sinister. BOOOOO! As for the rest of your post, could you translate that into English?

[Solon]

79. Can we call this poster a Stupidista?

I think the term is self-explanatory, and it sounds Spanish too! :)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

84. No doubt, I must be a masochista because I keep engaging him. n/t

[EFerrari]

81. If you can make something sound vaguely Spanish

you get terrorista points.

lol

[EFerrari]

38. You really aren't in the right place, are you?

[Judi Lynn]

18. Someone shut the door. There's way too much hot air in this thread!

I'm not tolerant of having two people on here bellowing about their fond thoughts of killing off communists.

That "kill commies" crap was wrong then, and it's wrong now. PERIOD. Assholes!

If previous U.S. Presidents, and the very worst offenders were most surely right-wingers involved U.S. taxpayers' resources in slaughtering leftists, they were wrong. They will ALWAYS be ####ing wrong.

We've had people sent to kill strikers, too, right here in our own country. Strikers and union organizers. That wasn't right, either.

In case you've never noticed, Latin America is crawling out from under the heavy burden of terror they've been living with from the time of the filthy conquerors who have dominated Latin America all this time, and then went ahead to sell it all to American businesses for a fraction of their rightful costs simply to enrich themselves at the tragic cost to the citizens, impoverishing the countries, and keeping them broken.

Latin America has learned from all its suffering and it's seeking a healing unity and a new shared stength. It is no longer going to welcome any long, nasty, wart-covered nose from the north butting in where it has NEVER truly belonged in the first place.

Duhhhh, gurgle, drool, mumble, "We kill commies." Yeah, right. You bet. WE've got your number.

[ngant17]

26. I like the new Ignore icons on DU

this will make people like Pavulon, or whoever, get flushed out with all that silly rightwing noise that has been popping up lately, and I can get a better "DU" signal.

Can't wait put some more rightwingers on it ASAP. Can't they just migrate to the Freeper sites? What's their big attraction here at DU anyway? Maybe some kind of weird liberal-conservative mindset that comes over here, as a change from the typical freeper lunacy, I suppose.

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. Just like John "Johnny Jihad" Walker Lindh, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time

[Peace Patriot]

29. Yeah, in Ecuador--which doesn't bomb people on suspicious of who they

might be.

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. No one is disputing that it was a FARC camp

[Peace Patriot]

33. FARC camp means you can send bombers to blow it away, without checking

on who's actually there?

What. If. It. Was. A. Mistake?

What. If. Hostages. Were. There?

And what the hell is this, bombing people? If you think they're criminals, go fucking arrest them--after you get permission from the government whose territory you are trespassing on! And if they shoot at you, defend yourself! Be a good law enforcement officer. Take control of the situation. Plan well, to try to arrest people peacefully and protect innocents. But don't fucking BOMB a camp in the jungle IN THE MIDDLE OF SUCCESSFUL HOSTAGE NEGOTIATIONS, and just blow anybody who happens to sleeping there away, and then sachet in and start shooting people in the back!

Christ!

[MaryCeleste]

37. Your points presume a law enforcement vice a military combat approach

In combat, there is nothing wrong with shooting combatants in the back or blowing them up in the middle of the night with warning. Its not allowed if you are the police (exceptions made for large US cities police departments :sarcasm:). Columbia is treating it like a military issue with military ROE.

[EFerrari]

39. Colombia cannot make war on its own citizens and clain the high ground.

[MaryCeleste]

41. No argument from me

[EFerrari]

43. My family was split neatly in two during the 80s over El Salvador

who was doing roughly the same thing Colombia is doing today.

I remember one awful family dinner when one of my uncles said, "I want you kids to come and visit us!"

And my cousin replied,"I'd love to but not in uniform, Uncle Carlos."

My heart goes out to the people of Colombia who have been tossed aside by the ruling class in favor of American millions. :(

[NutmegYankee]

90. If Columbian citizens are enaged in war with Columbia, it's Treason.

And they can be killed just like any enemy in a war until they surrender.

[EFerrari]

91. Have you ever heard of the Geneva Conventions?

You can't have it both ways.

[NutmegYankee]

92. Until they cease hostilties, it's war.

[EFerrari]

93. And so subject to international law. n/t

[MaryCeleste]

94. At this point I am wondering if this was a military or civil action

By Colombia is FARC considered:
- Treason/revolutionaries within Colombia
- A foreign force

What are the law in Colombia for treason/revolutionaries? What level of protection and rights do the have under Colombian law?

I have also noted people here assuming English common law style jurisprudence. Does anyone really know what Colombia uses (Napoleonic comes to mind)

[NutmegYankee]

99. I'm missing your point.

Bombing your enemy is an allowed action in war. And civilians at a military camp getting killed are not a violation of the conventions, it was a hit on a military target.

[Freddie Stubbs]

88. They are not criminals, they are terrorists

Even Senator Obama has called them that.

[MaryCeleste]

95. Then are they treated as a foreign army or are you suggesting some third way?

Are you stating that terrorists should be treated outside the normal legal system and outside the Geneva Convention?

[Freddie Stubbs]

109. Terrorists who use force to further thier political goals should be met with force

[High Plains]

96. They're not terrorists, they're a guerrilla army.

A belligerent force in an ongoing civil war.

I give a shit what Sen. Obama calls them.

[Freddie Stubbs]

108. They are kidnapping civilians

Considering that Senator Obama is the front runner to become President, his opinion on this matter carries great weight.

[Judi Lynn]

110. Anti-Uribe Protests in Colombia and the World

March 10, 2008

Remembering March 6
Anti-Uribe Protests in Colombia and the World
By JAMES J. BRITTAIN

A significant rise in international opposition toward the militaristic policies of the Colombian state, under President Álvaro Uribe Vélez and Vice-President Francisco Santos Calderón (2002-2010), has been realized over the past week. Much of this opposition has been centred on an illegal military campaign carried out under the direction of Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos, which saw Colombian forces deploy an air and ground assault against members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia-People’s Army (Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia-Ejército del Pueblo, FARC-EP) shortly after midnight on March 1, 2008. The illegal clandestine mission, conducted by a special forces wing of the Colombia military via intelligence support from the United States, resulted in the deaths of Raúl Reyes, Julian Conrado, and twenty other combatants associated with the FARC-EP. Quickly, these events led both the President of Ecuador Rafael Correa and Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez to denounce the Colombian state’s blatant violation of international law and agreements established through the Organization of the American States (OAS) and the Andean Parliament, which prevent a nation’s sovereign territory from being violated.

Virtually every country in Central and South America, including the Caribbean, has denounced the Colombian state’s aggressions. During meetings of the OAS, state officials and representatives from Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Cuba, Mexico, and Nicaragua, condemned the assault. Critics of Venezuela’s Bolivarian Revolution, such as Peruvian President Alan Garcia and Paraguay’s President Nicanor Duarte, have put aside their ideological positions and agreed that the Uribe and Santos administration not only overstepped their boundaries but must effectively guarantee that such a flagrant violation of international law cannot, for the good of the region, transpire again. Unsurprisingly, one of the only backers of the illegal military incursion was the US vis-à-vis President George W. Bush and J. Robert Manzanares, the United States’ representative during the OAS meetings.

While a consistent distain toward the Colombian state continues to resonate throughout various Latin American countries so too has a considerable opposition been witnessed within Colombia itself. A domestic condemnation appeared this past Thursday. Colombians from all walks of like not only protested the illegal incursion of their country’s forces on Ecuador’s territory but denounced human rights abuses against sectors of the Colombian populace at the hands of the Uribe and Santos administration and their links to the Colombian paramilitary.

In the past year, just under 80 governors, mayors, and Congressional politicians have been alleged or found guilty of having direct connections, meetings, and/or contracts with the United Self-Defence Forces of Colombia (Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia, AUC), which led to oppositional political opponents being targeted for assassination, trade-unionists threatened, and various community organizers disappeared. Included in this list is Colombia’s Vice-President Francisco Santos Calderón, his cousin Defence Minister Juan Manuel Santos, President Uribe’s brother Santiago and their cousin former-Senator Mario Uribe.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/brittain03102008.html