Police, protesters clash at NO city hall

[Algorem]

Source: AP

By CAIN BURDEAU, Associated Press Writer 31 minutes ago

NEW ORLEANS - Police used chemical spray and stun devices Thursday as dozens of protesters seeking to halt the demolition of public housing in New Orleans tried to force their way through an iron gate at City Hall.

Some were arrested as officers tried to establish order and an ambulance arrived on the scene. It was unclear whether there were injuries or the ambulance was a precautionary measure.

The council chambers seat less than 300. Once capacity was reached, people who were not permitted into chambers marched and chanted outside, calling for the council to reject plans by the Department of Housing and Urban development to demolish the housing projects.

Using bullhorns, leaders cried "No Justice, No Peace."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/ap_on_re_us/katrina_public_housing_4;_ylt=AuzkidjEoqSJyBKZc1DiSHQE1vAI

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http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/

[Javaman]

1. Has the fuse been lit? nt

[loudsue]

2. I hope so. I'm ready to get in the car and go down there.

Katrina victims R us. ALL of us. If we don't fight with them now, we'll be wishing they'd fight with us later.

[shadowknows69]

3. Stun devices?

Newspeak for tazers and rubber bullets.

[uppityperson]

4. More info/links...

facts
http://www.defendneworleanspublichousing.org/facts.html

continuing coverage
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/

myth vs fact
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2007/12/11634.php

nola.com updates
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2007/12/city_hall_girds_for_public_hou.html

photos
http://www.nola.com/katrinaphotos/tp/gallery.ssf?cgi-bin/view_gallery.cgi/nola/view_gallery.ata?g_id=9447

[ohio2007]

14. public housing dwellers are protesting the tearing down of their houses

on TV right now;

The public housing is a crime and drug riddled area.......


Cameras and reporters need to get residents on tape to explain the problems w/ the voucher system

[Barrett808]

5. Police, protesters clash in New Orleans

Source: Associated Press

Police, protesters clash in New Orleans
By CAIN BURDEAU, Associated Press Writer 14 minutes ago

NEW ORLEANS - Police used chemical spray and stun guns Thursday as dozens of protesters seeking to halt the demolition of 4,500 public housing units tried to force their way through an iron gate at City Hall.

One woman was sprayed with chemicals and dragged from the gates. She was taken away on a stretcher by emergency officials. Before that, the woman was seen pouring water from a bottle into her eyes and weeping.

Another woman said she was stunned by officers, and still had what appeared to be a Taser wire hanging from her shirt.

"I was just standing, trying to get into my City Council meeting," said the woman, Kim Ellis.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/ap_on_re_us/katrina_public_housing

[bdamomma]

6. this is just immoral pushing people off their land and their homes.

terrible.

[saigon68]

7. Welcome to "The Chimp's amerika"

[Acadia Blue]

10. Yes, Nagin and the Council are giving that land to "developers"

and I wonder if they are getting anything under the table for it???duh?? And the pigs are saying its good to tear them down because of crime. Well....where will they go. Are the streets any safer????
These filthy corrupt killing the poor for money pigs.
I live accross the lake and I am so disgusted.....If they had found places to live first....but we can't trust these pigs. What else will they do to these people? Where are the substitute home. Show them mr. broadcaster.

[ohio2007]

15. The Katrina trailers were unfit to live in

where are the HUD spokespeople to explain what deals were cut with the city ? ......

[Binka]

21. Why Are You ALWAYS Siding With The Establishment?

You suck. IGNORE. NOW.

[fascisthunter]

22. .

[ohio2007]

24. `

;)
some also wear rose colored contacts ......just in case

[sarcasmo]

48. Here come the Casino's.

[Rex_Goodheart]

19. It's not their land...

And although it's their homes it's not their houses.

[Robbien]

8. It is terrible to think

the city is using cops to manhandle people who are only trying to stop the city from tearing down their homes.

It would be tough being a cop in NO.

[Gonnuts]

20. Bull ...

the cops here are applauding these crime infested nests be torn down.

But I will agree with you that the cops here have it tough. Cops everywhere have it tough. But here the starting cop salary qualifies you for Food Stamps. And we wonder why we have police corruption?

[uppityperson]

9. dupe, first link here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3108942

[Auggie]

11. But that's what happens with Disaster Capitalism

[neohippie]

12. a kinder gentler machine gun hand...

This is so wrong on many levels, and I am sure this story or the protest will recieve little to no coverage by mainstream national news outlets

They are tearing down peoples houses when in most cases there isn't anything wrong with them.

[fascisthunter]

13. Stun Guns Should Be Banned!!!

Unless you know for sure a person is not going to have a heart attack due to the usage of one, it should NEVER be used.

[Rex_Goodheart]

16. I'm a New Orleans native and a Democrat, and

I want those crime-infested dumps to be torn down PRONTO.

[Gonnuts]

17. Hang on there ...

I live in New Orleans and as far as many here are concerned the "Projects" as they are called, I say "good riddance".

For one, The Projects weren't meant to be permanent places to live. They were built during the "War on Poverty" as temporary housing where people could live till they "moved up the social latter", a concept that in of itself is flawed social thinking. Naturally it didn't turn out that way, many moved in and made them their permanent homes. Now granted many of the people living there were mostly honest low income people but many were also criminals. In ever city there are places you warn visitors not to go near, the Projects is one of those places. Maze like block buildings were hard to police and were easy places for thugs who would commit crimes to disappear into.

The St. Thomas Projects were torn down some 4 years ago. Before they were torn down it was a neighborhood that I wouldn't drive my car through. Now it's beautiful single family homes, lawns with clean streets and as far as I can see filled with the same decent people, less the criminals, that I have no problem riding my bicycle through. If this is what they have planned for these other Projects then the people that are protesting are fools to want to move back into these crime infested nests.

Will there be those left out and some instances of injustice? Of this I have no doubt. Nothings perfect. Will there be some level of corruption and back-room deals? This is corporate America, New Orleans, what do you think? Are police using tactics I don't approve of? Absolutely. But if it comes down to having the Projects and what they did with the St. Thomas development I'll take that latter every time.

[Rex_Goodheart]

18. Damn straight

[PassingFair]

23. From the linked article:

In a letter signed by Republicans, including David "The Diaperman" Vitter:


"Public housing in New Orleans has for many decades served almost no other purpose than to warehouse the city's poor and disenfranchised," the letter said. "That generations of our fellow citizens were allowed to live in government-operated and sanctioned slums is offensive and intolerable."

Rrrright! They should be taken around back and SHOT.


As long as there is CURRENCY, there will ALWAYS be poor.

Where SHALL they live?

This is something I just DON'T understand about Republicans.
The DISCONNECT with reality that they have.

[jayfish]

25. New Orleans' Public Housing Fight Rages

Source: Excite News

By CAIN BURDEAU

(AP) A cloud of pepper spray floats over protesters as New Orleans Police re-lock a gate outside the New...
Full Image

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - After violent clashes with police at City Hall, protesters vowed that the fight over a plan to demolish 218 public housing buildings for the poor was far from over, both in the courts and on the streets.

On Thursday, police used chemical spray and stun guns on protesters who tried to force their way into a City Council meeting where the members voted unanimously to allow the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to demolish 4,500 public housing units.

The vote allows demolition crews to begin tearing down the buildings within weeks unless they are blocked in the courts. Lawyers fighting the demolition say they have not exhausted their legal options.

Endesha Juakali, a protest leader arrested on a charge of disturbing the peace, said the confrontation with the council was not the last breath from protesters.

"For everything they do, we have to make them pay a political consequence," Juakali said. He vowed that when the bulldozers try to demolish the St. Bernard complex, "it's going to be an all out effort."

For weeks, protesters have been gearing up to battle with bulldozers and have discussed a variety of tactics, including lying in front of the machinery.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20071221/D8TLQ6OG0.html

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Good luck and deity speed New Orleans. I just hope your non-violent protest of choice (lying down in front of bulldozers)doesn't get some of you killed. There's too much money to be made to let a few crushed protesters get in the way of making it.

Jay

[gasperc]

26. Jeez, I need to check a map, is this America?

what a God Damn disgrace.

[Dhalgren]

27. Non-violence will not work against these fascist monsters. They could

care less. The Israelis bulldozed over a non-violent protester and these people will, too. I think that non-violent opposition is just fine with the corporate thugs. We all know what the answer is, but we just won't say it. These protesters in NO are going to get arrested, injured and killed, and no one will bat an eye...

[noel adamson]

28. Merry Christmas....It is raising public awareness.

[Dhalgren]

31. Merry Christmas to you, too. I agree, but in this country, public

awareness and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee (cheap coffee)...

[noel adamson]

32. If they were not worried about public opinion they would not have gone to...

...such great lengths to buy up and consolidate the MSM and turn it into such a desperatly blatant propaganda mashine. There just needs to be a lot of public awareness.

[Dhalgren]

35. You have more faith in the American people than I do. I hope you are right...

[noel adamson]

38. People will eventually realize that it will affect them too.

[shance]

29. This is something PFAW or Moveon could actually help with. Get busses of people to New Orleans

to help these folks out, instead of hitting everyone up for money or telling us to sign a worthless petition.

[AngryOldDem]

30. I agree,

Dammit -- decent, affordable housing should be a birthright in this country. (And no, I am NOT talking about McMansions or anything of the sort -- just a safe roof over people's heads.) It is also a civil rights issue.

If people were unclear as to the motives of all the "rebuilding" efforts after Katrina, this should clear up ANY confusion.

[KingFlorez]

33. I don't agree with the police tactics, but I do think it's time for that housing to go

It's time to fight for better housing. I'm probably in the minority here, but I think it's time that this housing has been gone. Putting poor people in dilapidated housing that is economically isolated from the rest of the city does not work and it's time to break the cycle. For years, people have lived in extreme poverty and surrounded by crime in these places, I don't think the answer is to keep them standing, but that's just my opinion.

[Robbien]

34. Oh sure getting rid of public housing just moves the poor into tent cities

while the wealthy take over the prime land. And no, the land is not isolated and outside the city. Why do you think the developers want that land so desperately?

You want to knock down public housing. Tell me, where do the people go? There is no other available public housing and any new development will conveniently not build the lower income portion of that so call "mixed housing" redevelopment.

You are in favor of getting rid of that housing which hurts your sensibilities so much. So tell me, where do the people go?

Tent cities in the USA are on the rise because of sentiments such as yours.

[pitohui]

40. there are 300 public units available today as per the local newspaper

i suggest that people inform themselves once in awhile instead of just jumping on bandwagens from afar

[Robbien]

43. They are demolishing 4,500 units and you are offering 300 units

i suggest that people teach themselves how to add and subtract once in a while instead of just jumping on pro-corporate bandwagons from afar

[jayfish]

36. Problem Is It's Not Coming Back ...

and the residents know this. They are basically fighting their final eviction notice.

Jay

[MadLinguist]

37. These projects are not the same as the jack-in-the-box stuff you are talking about

It's true that they are old. But they were actually well-planned beautiful buildings that do not shut out the neighborhood, but instead nestle into it nicely. The problems that they have are the same problems that other old houses in New Orleans have -- retro-fitting for central air, old style sewage pipes to be replaced, stuff like that. You don't see people in those houses tearing down them down because of such issues. In a city whose income depends on tourists being charmed by architecture from days gone by, this decision doesn't even begin to make sense. Because you know as soon as you stick up whatever cracker jack box krap they have in mind (and trust me, there will be no bricks nor wrought iron) the surrounding area will be devalued and sooner rather than later the neighborhood will follow in architectural suit. If HUD devoted anything to renovation, the 4000 + affordable units would be saved, and the surrounding neighborhood would be uplifted. This "mixed income" housing idea sounds to me like code for "gradually (but hurry up already!) price the poor out of here" and the fact that its 3 years away means that the pre-katrina residents will be long gone by the time those doors open the to the 'mixed income' crowd. This is some Orwellian-ass shit.

[pitohui]

41. these projects are unsalvalgeable and were slated for demolition before katrina

facts need to be reported honestly

these are not historic bldgs that should have been preserved, they were handy dandy ways to preserve segregation of black and poor people long after segregation should have been abandoned in a decent society

[pitohui]

39. these slum units DO need to go, i'm from new orleans

it's crazy that anyone would advocate to keep these deplorable slums around when we have empty housing units available elsewhere right now

i simply don't understand the mentality that you must keep the poor segregated in miserable, unhealthy, violent housing projects forever

i heard that one person leading this fight apparently is an attorney who formerly earned a good income helping residents of these slums sue because of the terrible and unsafe living conditions, no slums = no customers for him and to hell with the people he would have living in shit forever for his profit

most of the other protestors seem to be the naive from way outside the area, one example -- they posted a sign saying that for every one of these units destroyed, they would destroy a condo because "the rich" do not deserve housing if the poor don't have it, the only thing is -- hello, in new orleans area "the rich" do not live in condos, they can afford to buy actual houses, so it's dead giveaway this campaign was created by someone from say san diego or manhattan not anyone who has ever spent any time in new orleans -- here the people in condos are secretaries or old ladies who can no longer afford to maintain a real house, not "the rich"

this "protest" does not deserve the time and attention of people who care seriously about poverty or public housing, it's a classic use of propaganda to serve the purposes of racists/classists who want black/poor people segregated even when being segregated into slum public housing has had a terrible effect on these people

and the neat twist is how they can loudly claim the high ground while advocating boldly for this kind of segregation

it really makes you wonder if everyone suddenly got brain damaged all at once to even fall for this crap

[maxsolomon]

42. what is the proposed replacement proportion?

1:1? if its under that, there's reason to be pissed.

in seattle, 1:1 replacement of dilapadated old units with new units was not very controversial.

[salin]

47. I believe it is about 10% - that is lost to new is 10:1

I haven't read what the expectation is for the 90% to live - unless the plan is to hope that they simply left during the storm and never come back.

[Ignis]

44. Not much of a "clash" when only one side has weapons. (nt)

[madmom]

45. saw a thing on faux news about this, the banner under it said "proof handouts don't work" what a

bunch of asses!

[happyslug]

46. Some comments on Public Housing in General

For more information on the Housing Authority of New Orleans see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Authority_of_New_Orleans

First, the propose plan to Tear Down Public Housing Units affect units build in the 1930s and 1940s NOT later. Public Housing came into existence do to inner city slum conditions, the old slums (many without running water) were torn down in the 1930s and 1940s and replaced by Public Housing Projects. Most of the tenants of Public Housing prior to 1974 were working class people. The poor could NOT get into most Public Housing Projects nation wide prior to 1974, do to a lack if Income, or poor history of paying rent. Most Public Housing Authorities (PHA) saw they function as providing public housing to people who held steady jobs, the working class as a whole. This housing was often to support some industry so that they workers could live close to the industry but in modern housing.

This changed in 1974. Nixon had switched the country from public Housing Projects to what is called "Section 8 New Construction", these are housing built by private corporations under contract with HUD which comes under similar regulations as PHA but are privately owned (What most people call Section 8, is Section 8 Existing homes, a different Section 8 program). Thus NO public Housing was built after the early 1970s, and even Section 8 New Construction projects ended under Reagan.

Now in 1974 Congress re-wrote the Federal Housing law, inventing two new terms in addition to "low-income" which had been in the law since the 1930s. These two new terms were "low-low Income" and "Low-Low-Low-Income". This was to cover people whose only income was Welfare (Most people on Welfare prior to 1974 could NOT get into public Housing, they did not have the Income or lack a history of paying the rent). When Congress found out that people on Welfare could, as a general rule, get into most Public Housing, Congress made it a requirement that PHA give priority to people with little on no income and to people on Public Welfare. This had NOT been the rule prior to 1974.

Now the chief reason people were "low-low Income" and "Low-Low-Low-Income" was to to problems that prevented them from Working (i.e. drugs and alcohol addiction and Psychological problems that technically did not make them "Disabled" for Social Security Purposes, but made them last hired, first fired employees). Thus "low-low Income" and "Low-Low-Low-Income" people had problems getting and holding a job. Such people also tend to be tied in with criminal activities and worse tended to be violent in nature. Thus the move to give priority to "low-low Income" and "Low-Low-Low-Income" people lead to increase Crime in those same projects. The few full time working class people moved out in the 1970s as the PHA deteriorated till the PHA were known for high crime activity by the time Reagan became President. Since Reagan President the Rules of HUD for PHA has been Zero tolerance of such Criminal Activities, but that lack of income AND psychological problems lead them to criminal acts.

My point is twofold: First is that these Projects are NOT products of the 1960s, but part of the New Deal of the 1930s.

Second, that PHA only became areas of High Crime Rates starting in the 1970s, but more do to the concentration of people with Psychological problems then anything else. This was a product of what Congress did in 1974 to help people on Welfare get into Public Housing.

Please note, this is NOT just New Orleans, this has been Nationwide. HUD has now embraced the concept of breaking up these huge concentration of poor people as a way to end Crime in PHA Projects. Part of this is to make the areas more attractive to higher income people, but at the cost of kicking most "low-low Income" and "Low-Low-Low-Income" people out of Public Housing, like it was prior to 1974.