House Democrats Pushing To Revisit H-1B Visa, Green Card Reform This Year

[OhioChick]

Source: Information Week

Members of the New Democrat Coalition are joining the tech industry in calling for increasing the supply of foreign-born workers in the United States.

By Marianne Kolbasuk McGee
InformationWeek
October 23, 2007 02:50 PM


Pressure is mounting on Congress -- now from within -- to pass H-1B visa and green card reform this year.
In a letter sent yesterday to U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi and several other House committee leaders, a group of 16 Democrats in Congress requested that "the House take action this year to resolve the immediate talent crisis that is facing U.S. employers."

The letter was signed by 16 U.S. representatives who are part of the New Democrat Coalition, a 59-member group of Democratic members of Congress who describe themselves as "moderate, pro-growth," and interested in "modernizing" the Democratic Party and the country.

The group says Congress "must act to alleviate the talent crisis before we adjourn this year."

Among the reforms being urged are aligning the supply of H-1B visas and employment-based green cards "with the needs of U.S. employers" and modernizing student visa programs. H-1B is the most common visa used by U.S. employers to temporarily hire foreign-born technology workers.

Currently, the annual cap on H-1B visas sits at 85,000, including 20,000 exemptions that are earmarked for foreign students who receive degrees from U.S. schools.



Read more: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202600744

---

snip~"New Democrat Coalition members signing the letter are Ellen Tauscher (Calif.), Adam Smith (Wash.), Joseph Crowley (N.Y.), Artur Davis (Ala.), Ron Kind (Wis.), Rick Larsen (Wash.), Dennis Moore (Kan.), Adam Schiff (Calif.), Jim Moran (Va.), Gregory Meeks (N.Y.), Susan Davis (Calif.), Lois Capps (Calif.), Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.), Christopher Carney (Pa.), Michael Arcuri (N.Y.), and David Wu (Ore.)."

[robinlynne]

1. Well that's what we really need! sarcasm thingie here!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Why don't they pressure business to hire Americans?

Oh, wait...We don't contribute enough.

[OhioChick]

3. You Got It.

Below the article is a "comment section." I thought this person's response was quite accurate:

"Well there you have it. Republicans want to give your jobs to foreigners, Democrats want to give your jobs to foreigners, the companies want to give your jobs to foreigners, the foreigners want your jobs and at the end of the day America has been SOLD OUT by its businesses and its politicians. Let them hear you with your wallets and your votes otherwise the point will never get across. Too bad most people are sheep."

[Nederland]

11. Bottom line: Americans don't have the necessary skill set (nt)

[Dr.Phool]

18. It's not just skilled jobs.

I used to spend a couple of weeks a year in Myrtle Beach, SC when my parents moved there. Back then all the local hotel and eating establishments hired locals at low wages. I talked to a lot of them in the local bars in the evening. Most were working 2 and 3 jobs just to get by. One journeyman electrician I talked to was making only $9.00 per hour. This is 10 years ago. Up north, he would have been making $25-30 per hour.

A couple of years later, One hotel unionized. That put the owners of the "Redneck Riviera" in panic mode. Now, it seems like all the jobs are filled by immigrants, legal or otherwise.

I was up there again a few weeks ago, and I was reading an editorial in the Myrtle Beach (Sun?) yelling that, if Congress didn't increase the H-1B program really quick, it was going to paralyze the hospitality industry on the Grand Strand.

The solution is simple, especially the way that place has grown over the last several years. Pay a livable wage, and you won't have any problem finding employees.

Also, make college affordable again, and you'll have no trouble finding skilled people.

[lovuian]

47. I'm watching the Democrats here cause if they sell the

American Worker out there their is Hell thats going to be paid

this is aimed at the American Worker

[HERVEPA]

21. I'm in it, with old skill set.

Working at the moment.
Spend money to retrain people in newer skills, and spend money on education.

[Lance_Boyle]

50. presumably the 'skill set' you refer to is

"ability to undercut wages"

[Thor_MN]

4. So they are looking to reduce them?

There is no need for H1-B Visas. If in the "Free Market" of the US, they can not find enough employees, then they are not paying enough. Once they start offering wages sufficient to attract employees, they will find them. Supply and Demand, very simple. There is no need for artifical creations to regulate wages - let the market decide and it will regulate itself. In other words (your's, neocons), FOAD.

[ixion]

5. wages are depressed and jobs are scarce in technology these days

thanks to all the outsourcing and HB-1 garbage. :grr:

[GeminiProgressive]

6. would these workers

be allowed to unionize without fear of deportation?

[Deja Q]

8. I doubt it.

To my limited understanding, many have to sign contracts with their employers saying they won't go elsewhere or do anything that breaches their contract.

That's their choice and their problem, therefore they should not whine when they do (check out dice.com's forums; very enlightening stuff.)

[ixion]

17. exactly.. .the company pretty much owns them until they get their citizenship

which takes a long time, apparently.

[Nederland]

9. Where do you live?

I live in Colorado, work in IT and my company can't seem to find enough talent no matter how hard we look.

[ixion]

16. I'm in Florida

there are jobs around, but they're paying far less than they were. It's taking me much longer to find something than it's ever taken me before.

[Vincardog]

22. Do they hire Mainframe skills? Or will they pay me to train? I will take the job. Just pay me

enough to live there and fund my retirement.

[ChromeFoundry]

33. I don't believe you.

There is no shortage of IT workers in this country. NONE, plain and simple. This, so called need for a massive influx of H-1Bs is the capitalists way of deflating current income and maximizing profits. I have been in this field for nearly 20 years and have worked at many different companies. I have seen all the different tricks employers use to get around the federal laws of employing foreign nationals... I have even been forced, at a former employer, to craft job descriptions in a manner to keep expiring H-1Bs, so that the company could fool the government into believing that "no American can do this job." It was a cost cutting measure!

If your company in Colorado can't find people to work for them... and have been forced to find people on the other side of the world to uproot and move here... Your company is lacking something, plain and simple. Here in Ohio, we put an ad in the "local" newspaper and get over 300 resumes in response. We interview at approx. 10% and choose the most qualified.

Unless you live atop an inaccessible mountain, your company is doing something wrong. Maybe you should revise your statement to be, "my company won't pay enough for talent, and would rather line the CEO's pockets with the profits by exploiting cheap labor."

I have nothing against using H-1Bs for appropriate work; This area is not one of them.

[Nederland]

38. I know its not money

Right now we are looking for a Java developer with 5+ years of experience and are offering $70-$80 an hour. I think that is reasonable rate. Perhaps we are doing something else wrong, but it's not money.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Look in California

There are STILL people scrounging for work after the .com bust. My husband, fluent in I don't know HOW many programming languages (probably not using the right term here), including JAVA, took 14 months to find a low-paying job.

Seriously, have your company do a search in California. Particularly the South Bay (San Jose area) and Central Valley. You'll have more applicants than you know what to do with.

[Nederland]

48. California is a victim of its own greed

I know guys that were billing $300 an hour in the San Jose area in the late 1990's. They got greedy, plain and simple. The result was that housing prices went through the roof and now that wages have returned to saner levels people can't afford to live there. I'm sorry your husband got caught up in all that, but I have little pity for most of the people in California that simply thought they could live the high life forever...

[Le Taz Hot]

58. I'm sorry,

I thought the issue here was that you claimed your company could not find anyone inside the United States to fill programming spots. I provided you with a couple of suggestions which prompted you to start trashing Californians? Okaaaayyyy. :crazy:

[ChromeFoundry]

68. I think his post speaks for itself...

He or his company isn't looking for anyone in the U.S. to fill these so called positions he is speaking of. He likes to believe that he is acting in an ethical manner because any less would reflect poorly on him. Fact is, he has the same "sell out the entire middle class, for my own profit" attitude shared by the rest of the people that believe that there are "no Americans to fill these positions." Next he will be saying,
"these are jobs Americans refuse to do!"

Thanks for providing a source for the other companies looking for quality coders!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. Or how high they pay?

:-)

[Nederland]

60. They are offering $70-$80 an hour

Is that a high enough wage for you?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. Are they advertising nationally?

:shrug:

As another poster said, they should advertise in Silicon Valley, touting the lower cost of living in Colorado.

[Nederland]

7. Good

The whole outsourcing trend was in no small degree fueled by the reduction in the number of H-1B visas. I've worked in IT for 18 years, and it used to be that we took all the smart people from India and brought them over here to work. Then some really brillant fucks decided that was a lousy idea because those people were taking "American Jobs". Before you know it all those people were staying in India and working over there. It doesn't take a genius to realize that given a choice between having people move here, work for American companies and pay American taxes is a far better deal than having them work over there and getting nothing.

And don't give me the bullshit answer about giving those jobs to Americans who are already here. The number of college graduates with Computer Science degrees is lower today than it was when I graduated in 1990, despite an enormous boom in demand. Why I don't know, but the bottom line is that native born Americans don't seem to want to pursue engineering or computer science...

[GeminiProgressive]

10. then perhaps a better solution would be

government funded college education for those who pursue jobs in needed fields?

[TexasBushwhacker]

12. I'm okay with the visas IF the employer actually hire them

There are far too many who are brought into the US with H-1B visas, only to work as "independent contractors"; no withholding of taxes, no benefits, etc. If an employer is going to bring someone in, they should have to hire them. Allowing them to work as indies is unfair competition for the US citizens who want full-time jobs with benefits.

[Nederland]

35. I would agree

Many companies abuse the system. In general however, I think a large number of companies have such a hard time finding good people that they are more than willing to do the extra work to get desirable people their green cards.

[w4rma]

51. Bull. Companies aren't having a hard time finding good people. It's the wages they don't want to

put up to pay those good people.

[NekoChris]

13. It might be because..

..of the costs associated with getting the certs and degrees you need to be considered. I'm still paying out of pocket for my Associate in Computer Networking that I got almost a year and a half ago. It's not easy to pay back when I'm the primary provider even in a household of two.

On top of that I ended up in a career in ACCESS CONTROL where I do almost no networking at all. The pay is pretty decent in truth but I only remember snippits of networking. On top of THAT alot of companies demand you have prior experience so you don't break their stuff when you get there, gone is the days of apprenticeship to teach you what you need then pass it on.

[Thor_MN]

23. To answer the why, just look at wage deterioration in IT

[Nederland]

36. Wage Deterioration?

Sure, there has been wage deterioration in IT--but that's only because toward the end of the dot com boom wages reached absurd levels. Yes, after the market crashed in 2000 my personal salary declined almost 50%, but I didn't care because in 1999 I was getting paid a ridiculous amount of money. I suppose some people just don't deal well with wage declines, but for me it seemed inevitable.

[suziedemocrat]

25. Companies are abusing H-1Bs.

There may be legitimate shortages in some disciplines, but I am a mainframe programmer and I know a lot of unemployed old mainframe geezers, yet I keep working with H-1Bs who have trouble understanding simple COBOL concepts, like 88 levels. I also work with an H-1B who was being coached on how to "fudge" certain skills on his resume to get a job. He wanted me to give him a quick tutorial on TSO so he could "fake it" as a mainframe programmer. Employers love these guys because for the most part they will not quit under any circumstance. (Don't want to start the green card process over with a new employer.) It is even becoming more common for employers to pay for a "days" work, and that day can be 8-24 hours. I was told on my last contract that I could work up to 9 hours a week "for free" if I wanted to. The situation is becoming incredible.

Also, I remember when Ross Perot created a very good tech company called EDS by hiring recent college graduates, including Liberal Arts majors, and sending them through a rigorous training for several months. American IT employers today rarely offer training of any kind as far as I can tell. Too many American employers want H-1Bs because they can treat them worse, and pay them less than American employees and have no fear that they will quit for a new job.

If you can't find H-1B's for legitimate needs, then you should blame all the companies abusing the system who are using up the quota just to put downward pressure on wages and working conditions.

I know of TWO recent Purdue CIS graduates who can't find jobs. Of course young Americans are not going to pay for a college degree in a field where all the jobs are heading overseas.

[girl gone mad]

32. That's been my experience..

too. Several of my friends work in IT. The pattern seems to be that they are terminated every couple of years and can then only find lower paying work. I also know a few H-1B's from India, and most have told me that they doctored their resumes to get here, including one who invented awards and honorary degrees for himself. I used to think they must be pretty clever to get away with it, then I realized that their employers simply don't care about anything except how much they can save by hiring cheaper foreign workers. They probably know, just like those who hire day laborers know.

edit: grammar

[OhioChick]

26. There is NOT a Shortage of American Engineers.....

Pay them what they're worth.

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

April 4, 2007

A commonly heard defense in the arguments that surround U.S. companies that offshore high-tech and engineering jobs is that the U.S. math and science education system is not producing a sufficient number of engineers to fill a corporation's needs.

However, a new study from Duke University calls this argument bunk, stating that there is no shortage of engineers in the United States, and that offshoring is all about cost savings.

This report, entitled "Issues in Science and Technology" and published in the latest National Academy of Sciences magazine further explores the topic of engineering graduation rates of India, China and the United States, the subject of a 2005 Duke study.

In the report, concerns are raised that China is racing ahead of both the United States and India in its ability to perform basic research. It also asserts that the United States is risking losing its global edge by outsourcing critical R&D and India is falling behind by playing politics with education. Meanwhile, it considers China well-positioned for the future.

Duke's 2005 study corrected a long-heard myth about India and China graduating 12 times as many engineers as the United States, finding instead that the United States graduates a comparable number.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2111347,00.asp

[Nederland]

37. Pay them what they are worth?

And how exactly is that determined? In 1990 I was making 24k a year. In 2000 I was making 175k a year. In 2001 I was making 90k a year. So how much am I "worth"? The correct answer is that I am not worth a dime more than a guy in India who is capable of doing exactly what I do. To say otherwise is racist.

American engineers priced themselves out of the market, plain and simple. It's a global economy and people who think they deserve to get paid more simply because they are Americans need to get their heads out of the sand.

[girl gone mad]

39. Nonsense.

American engineers did not price themselves out of the market.

Have you looked at the price of a 4 year college degree lately? Most students have to take on large amounts of debt. In India, college education is usually free, payed for by the government. Of course, only the top students have access to this education. The rest are sol.

How about the cost of living in most tech-heavy areas in the USA? In India, the cost of housing, food, clothing, medical care and transportation is a fraction of what it is here, and the standard of living Indians are accustomed to is often less than what Americans would deem acceptable.

If you want Americans to buy the global economy kool-aid, then be prepared for most aspects of our middle class quality of life to deteriorate. That's simply the only way we can compete with the labor pool from second and third-world economies.

[suziedemocrat]

41. I work in a room with an H-1B who shares a one bedroom apt w/ 8 other guys.

He likes it and even though there are occupancy laws preventing overcrowding, I don't really have a problem with it either. But, that is one reason why they are able to make so much less money. I guess American programmers could start putting 9 people in a one bedroom apartment to be able to compete with H-1B wages and still make ends meet. I mean, it is a global economy, and I guess if we are able to have any housing at all we should feel pretty lucky, eh?

[suziedemocrat]

40. Then why not tell congress, We need H-1b's because Americans are too expensive?

The excuse for more H-1Bs has been: companies need H-1Bs because there aren't enough Americans with the correct skills. If they'd be honest and tell Congress, "we COULD hire Americans, but we'd have to pay them too much," at least they'd be honest. That message just doesn't sell as well though does it?

Anyway, some companies are finding out that small town America is cheaper than India, so at least that's good.

http://www.latimes.com/business/careers/work/la-fi-onshore21oct21,1,5169578.story?coll=la-headlines-business-careers&ctrack=2&cset=true

Some firms replace offshoring with onshoring

Small U.S. towns can match India in cost.

Northrop Grumman plans up to 50 sites for tech support. Dell opens a center in Idaho.

By Peter Pae, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 21, 2007

CORSICANA, TEXAS -- Gary Richardson left this boomtown-gone-bust in 1996 for a computer job in Dallas, the big city 60 miles north. "I didn't think I would ever come back," Richardson recalled recently, "because there were no jobs like mine here." Not until this year, when Northrop Grumman Corp. opened an information technology center in town and began recruiting IT specialists and software engineers.

In a twist on offshoring that Northrop has dubbed onshoring, the global defense and technology corporation has been shipping computer work to small-town America, shunning India's Bangalore and Mumbai.

...

Onshoring, in fact, is becoming trendy. Some U.S. companies have recently pulled back from India to set up shop in rural areas where access to high-speed broadband connections isn't the problem it was just a few years ago, and where lower real-estate prices and wages are attractive.

...

But Dan Sernett, a partner in Los Angeles with Ernst & Young, a professional advisory firm, said many companies were reassessing offshoring. "It's not a slam dunk as it was several years ago," he said. "They're looking for alternatives closer to home."

...

[brentspeak]

46. "Racist", huh?

That smear-argument has been bandied about since the 1970's by the Republicans whenever the topic of Americans losing their jobs has come up.

If you're such an enthusiastic fan of the "global economy", then I suggest you renounce your American citizenship and move overseas.

[Nederland]

49. I have no need to leave

I'm content with the salary I am making today. Yes, I'm making half of what I used to, but unlike most materialistic Americans I can live with that.

[brentspeak]

54. Oh, those greedy Americans who are now making a fraction of what they used to!

Damn their materialistic urges to 1) put food on the table for their families; 2) have adequate medical coverage; 3) pay the mortage.

They should all be shills like you, and be happy!

[Nederland]

57. Oh please

I'm talking about IT. Nobody working in IT today is having trouble putting food on the table or suffering for lack of medical insurance. If they have trouble paying the mortgage, it's probably because they bought a fucking enormous house they can't afford.

I realize that in many other sectors people are struggling, but it's not happening in IT.

[OhioChick]

56. "If You Are Not Worth a Dime More

than a guy in India doing the same work....."

YOU shouldn't be making 90K a year, they aren't. As a matter of fact......you should cut your salary in half and live in a mud hut.

Simply put, the cost of living is more in the US. We have running water and we don't shit in our streets.

[Nederland]

61. Excuse me?

We have running water and we don't shit in our streets.

Really, do you understand just how offensive comments like those are?

[OhioChick]

66. Google is Your Friend.....

Human Waste Overwhelms India's War on Disease
By Kenneth J. Cooper
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, February 17, 1997; Page A27

About half the world's reported cases of polio, a crippling disease virtually wiped out in Western countries, occur in India. Each year, diarrhea kills 500,000 Indian children. A jaundice epidemic strikes a small district of India's Rajasthan state as regularly as the annual monsoon.

Those deadly diseases and others that afflict India can be traced to the same source: drinking water contaminated by human waste. Infected water causes an estimated 80 percent of disease in India, according to the World Health Organization (WHO), making poor sanitation and inadequate sewage disposal the nation's biggest public health problems.

"Waterborne diseases in India are very, very common. Every year, there's bound to be a few epidemics of viral gastroenteritis, typhoid, cholera," said P.C. Bhatnagar, a community health worker for the Voluntary Health Association of India.

Fewer than 30 percent of India's 950 million people have bathrooms in their homes or easy access to public toilets. The rest routinely relieve themselves in the open -- along roadsides, on farmland or in municipal parks.

Read On: http://swopnet.com/engr/sanitation/India_sewers.html

[HughBeaumont]

64. All I see is a ton of "Ignored", and with good reason, apparently.

Who is it this time?

No supporter of job offshoring and free trade can call themselves democratic. End of damned SENTENCE. Destroying one middle class in an attempt to lift another when you're only benefitting the wealthty of BOTH nations while screwing their middle classes is not sound economic policy, short or long term.

[OhioChick]

67. Always One on Every Thread

Spewing the same old Republican mantra.

[Skittles]

27. they're not pursuing such degrees

because they know American bosses will pimp off any technology job to the lowest bidder- who the FUCK wants to live in constant fear of losing their job???

[gulliver]

31. Absolutely right, plus eliminate tax evasion (outsourcing)

Let more H-1Bs in so they are paying taxes here and buying houses. But also get rid of the tax evasion scheme known as outsourcing. If the work is paid for using U.S. funds, and the work value is consumed in the U.S., then it is U.S. work. And that should make it subject to income and FICA tax. And let's add an import tax if India is not buying American exports.

[ChromeFoundry]

34. Kids are not pursuing CS degrees...

because the current outlook is dismal. Onshore wages are falling and American companies are hell bent on diluting ethics over profits. There are also less kids able to afford continued education costs in comparison to 1990. The "enormous boom in demand" that you are referring to is not for advanced level work, it is mainly geared for medium level project workers.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. Hey, I know!

Most of those companies have really highly paid top level executives, CEOS, CFOs and the like, who not only earn megabucks but routinely draw bonuses.

If THEY get too greedy, let's bring in someone from India to replace THEM. I'm sure you could get someone from India to be CEO for only $500,000 a year and no bonuses.

Put the blame for greed where it REALLY belongs.

[pattmarty]

14. Fix the education system here and end of problem.

[LanternWaste]

53. Smartest thing I've read today... n/t

Smartest thing I've read today... n/t

[gulfcoastliberal]

15. Same thugs who agitated for for the "bankruptcy reform" bill - scum!

So obvious "new dems" = fascists.

[Dr.Phool]

19. "New Democrats" are really Old Republicans.

They go under the name Democratic Leadership Council. DLC.

[Joanne98]

20. The jobs that Americans aren't smart enough to do!

I have to say it! I HATE the Democratic leadership!

[Enrique]

45. this isn't the democratic leadership, this is the DLC

I expect Pelosi will resist this pressure.

[ramapo]

24. aka - Open the Floodgates

The H1B program has all but destroyed the job market for many American IT workers. Countless jobs have been lost. Instead of developing a system like India has to churn out quality candidates, our Congress just takes the money and opens the door to foreign-born workers.

Ain't America great or what?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

29. More Here:

http://www.eng-i.com/E-Newsletters.htm

http://www.jobdestruction.com/shameh1b/

[antigop]

30. Yep. Matloff has been on this for some time... more here.....

http://www.workingassetsblog.com/2007/10/h1bs_and_the_triumph_of_buypar.html

[Vinca]

42. Let me get this straight.

First they ship out the manufacturing jobs the blue collar class used to perform and train the displaced workers for high tech jobs, then they import more high tech workers. In addition, a day doesn't go by that you don't hear or read of highly educated Americans who can't find a job that isn't beneath their skill levels ("Want fries with that?"). This is a killer for the Democrats . . . so, of course, they're gravitating toward it.

[sadiesworld]

55. Of course, the dems are "gravitating toward it"...

the repubs are pretty unpopular at the moment and the dems have to keep up.

[Enrique]

43. there is also GOOD legislation pending

support Durbin and Grassley's, NOT the DLC garbage:

http://durbin.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=271783

Monday, April 2, 2007

- U.S. Senators Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Chuck Grassley (R-IA) introduced "The H-1B and L-1 Visa Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act of 2007" late last week to overhaul the H-1B and L-1 visa programs to give priority to American workers and crack down on unscrupulous employers who deprive qualified Americans of high-skill jobs.

The H-1B visa program allows American companies and universities to employ temporary foreign workers who have the equivalent of a U.S. bachelor's degree in a job category that is considered by the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services to be a "specialty occupation". The L-1 visa program allows companies to transfer certain employees from their foreign facilities to their U.S. facilities for up to seven years.

"Our immigration policy should seek to complement our U.S. workforce, not replace it," Durbin said. "Some employers have abused the H-1B and L-1 temporary work visa programs, using them to bypass qualified American job applicants. This bill will set up safeguards for American workers, and provide much-needed oversight and enforcement of employers who fail to abide by the law."

"This is about protecting the American worker," said Senator Grassley. "We're closing loopholes that employers have exploited by requiring them to be more transparent about their hiring and we're ensuring more oversight of these visa programs to reduce fraud and abuse. A little sunshine will go a long way to help the American worker."

[w4rma]

52. Durbin's legislation looks pretty darn good. (nt)

[ryanmuegge]

65. Good thing we have the Democrats, the party of the working class, in power.