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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:27 PM
Original message
Ski star's cousin kills cop, then gets killed
Source: cnn.com

FRANCONIA, New Hampshire (AP) -- A cousin of skiing star Bode Miller fatally shot and ran over a police officer, then was killed by a passer-by who grabbed the officer's gun.

Liko Kenney shot Cpl. Bruce McKay four times and ran over him after a traffic stop Friday evening, state Attorney General Kelly Ayotte said. Gregory Floyd, who was driving by with his son, grabbed McKay's gun and shot Kenney when he refused to put his gun down, Ayotte said.

Kenney, 24, was convicted of assaulting McKay and resisting arrest in 2003. Ayotte had no other details of that previous incident between the men, and rejected suggestions the officer should have let someone else handle the traffic stop given his history with the driver.

<snip>

The officer used pepper spray on Kenney and his passenger and then turned around and was shot, Ayotte said Saturday at a news conference in Concord. Soon after, Floyd arrived and confronted Kenney while his son called for help using the officer's radio.

<more>

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/12/officer.shot.ap/index....



Another policeman lost in the line of duty.

:patriot:
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. And this is national news why?
Bode didn't kill this cop and why is he even mentioned. Is the Anna Nichole story dying with her decomposing body?
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Even in the old days this would be considered news.
If not 24-7 news then at least a national blurb through the AP. It has an interesting twist so it sells copy. That's the news' ultimate job.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Why? a cousin of a star is national news?
Even in the old days only National Enquirer would have carried a story like this.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. a passerby took the dead cops gun and shot the shooter dead- is THAT
something that happens every day where you live??

What is your problem???
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Sorry to interject...
your sig line! That very concept has been on my mind for several years. Aldiss (of whom I've read little) has articulated my thoughts exquisitely.

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. thanks- he captured my own thoughts too-
he's a real champion of childrens rights-

peace,
blu
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. Add my vote for "it's national news" nt
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. In (apparently) unrelated news, Bode quit the US Ski Team
Edited on Sat May-12-07 05:36 PM by MaineDem
I just heard that about an hour ago.

But people will remember Bode as the bad boy skier and make this a national story.

Sad.

Here's a link on Bode and the Ski Team: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18631370/
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The death of a Police Officer in the line of duty
isn't something that happens very often here in NH- It happened last October- and now again- it's unusual for us- Maybe no one cares- but please don't equate this with Anna Nichole-

Bodie is the 'bad boy' of Olympic Skiing- and he's connected to this story-

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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
76. Pretty exciting for Franconia Notch
I lived just north of Center Sandwich
one spring back in the '70's
most exciting thing that happened
(besides climbing Mt Whiteface)
was the night i lit and threw a big string of firecrackers
out in the road in front of an approaching group of motorcycle riders

i had little sense at age 15
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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. That was you?!?!?!
You bastard.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. This happened in a peaceful little NH town, too--it's the combination of
a murder that's related to someone famous, and it happening in a quaint, safe place as well. NECN is covering it more from the latter angle.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. thank you
for your rational answer-
I went to school there once upon a time- my late Uncle lived there- It's a small town where everyone knows everyone- and the fact that someone driving by, picked up the dead officers gun and shot the person who shot the officer is kind of ... unusual...?? - As for Bode's mention, whenever there is an incident like this, the media does a check, and if there are "relations" that are notable- they usually get mentioned-

peace,
blu
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I;m shocked, myself. I've been up that way in my hippie youth--it is one of those
"cool rural" places that evoke fond memories. Heck, the Old Man fell down the mountain, and now this???

This is quite an odd story for the region; not to say New England doesn't have murders, but this one is unusual, and probably would be even if the first victim were not a cop, and the second person killed was not related to someone famous. It's just a strange story. They're suggesting that there might be more to it, too--I guess the cop and the guy who shot him and ran him over didn't get along at all.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. here is a link to a 'fuller' account-
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/ap/story.asp?AP_ID=D8P33...

and it is an odd thing to happen anywhere-



I remember when the old man fell too- It was a rainy foggy morning- I thought it was kind of strangely ...appropriate. The war was on- the world had tipped even further towards bizarre-
the face fell-

:shrug:
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. About a cop a week dies in the line of duty, on average
Seems like the least most of us could do is read the story and maybe think about it for a minute or two.

It's not just soldiers that die to keep us safe.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. I'm glad the story was posted - it was on CNN
that makes it national news IMHO. Some of you must sit on DU just to play thread police. If the story didn't interest you ignore it, you just keep a thread alive by posting.

I found it interesting that a passerby had the courage to come to the defense of the police officer and I applaud that.

And the nutcase that killed the cop deserved what he got.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
47. Taking dislike of the media to an extreme ....
Surely this is a newsworthy event, even if it has a celebrity aspect ....

WHY are some so jaded as to deny even basic coverage of these types of occurrences ? .... The unique conditions of this story warrant, in my view, at least cursory coverage ... Even at the national level ...

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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
71. The killing of the cop was brutal by any standard followed up by a passerby doing the right thing
That's why it's news.

Even without the tenuous "connection" to Miller the story is newsworthy in and of itself.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. Any officer killed in the line of duty, should be national news.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. WOW
what an unbelievable turn of events. :wow:
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. I was amazed by the passerby
I can't imagine myself coming upon a crime scene and doing something like that. That guy was courageous, to say the least.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. I suppose the MSM will find pictures, neighbors interviews,
Edited on Sat May-12-07 06:00 PM by anitar1
old girlfriends ect.ect. Then we will see the film over and over for days. Makes me want to barf to think of it. Too bad for
Bodie that he had a cousin. and certainly they will drag Bodie into it , as if he was an accomplice. Poor bad boy
Bodie, destined for disaster. sarcasm
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. Isn't this vigilantiism, and isn't that illegal?
I find it odd that a passerby would stop, take the cops gun and kill the suspect, yet he's being portrayed as a hero rather than a vigilante. You can't take the law into your own hands and self-defense is a bit of a stretch given this man put himself into this situation.

The suspect never received a trial and there was obviously some unusual circumstances (when does a cop spray pepper spray into a car?).

And, would this be a major story if the suspect was not related to Bode? Possibly, but it still bodes poorly for Bode.

Peace
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The fellow asked the killer to put his weapon down, and the cousin didn't
There are unusual circumstances here, certainly. There was a history of animosity between the two. The cousin wasn't, as they say, "unknown to law enforcement."

It's not unusual for a passerby to stop if you know the person doing the shooting, and the guy who got shot. This is a small town, not a big metropolis.

This would be a big story, as I said, because it happened in the Mayberry of NH, in essence, and it involved a cop death--those usually do get some coverage.

As for Bode, he's quit the team, he's on his way home. He had bailed that cousin out of jail in the past.
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. What you say is true, but the passerby is not a cop.
I can't just stumble upon a crime scene in progress, take a dead cop's gun and become Dirty Harry on the guy. The size of the town has nothing to do with it. Even if everyone knew each other, the passerby at most can render aid and practice self-defense. But, this guy actually intervened.

Now, maybe this is a good guy trying to do the right thing, but remember this - he actually killed the man. If the cop had killed the suspect, he would have been taken off duty while an investigation determined if he did so within the law. In other words, even cops aren't above the law.

I still believe this is vigilantiism.

If Bode quit the team because of this incident, then the connection is more relevant. I don't think we know that yet, but it's a good assumption.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. "Self Defense" includes the defense of others.
When I was a kid, a guy down the street from me attacked his wife with a hammer in their front yard (no idea why, I was only 8 or 9). The neighbor across the street ran out of his house and shot the hammer wielding man dead. It was 100% justified.

In this case, the passerby was probably acting in defense of the fallen officer. Shooting and killing the person who attacked him was legally justified in that guise, and it isn't vigilantism.

Most states also have citizens arrest laws on the books which permit civilians to detain people who commit felonies, forcefully if necessary. The circumstances where it's allowed, and the amount of permissible force, vary from state to state, but I would imagine that most states permit it in cases lie this (murder). If the suspect refused to drop his weapon while the other man was trying to detain him, it would also be legally justifiable as self defense.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Who was the guy defending?
Is it ethical to use deadly force to defend a corpse against a perp that is moving away from the scene of the crime?

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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. The officer was shot and down
the passerby was entirely justified in doing what he did. I commend him immensely.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Why not call for medical assistance or administer triage instead?
Firearms are inherently lethal in their design and use. Is it not logical to expect them to have a high probability of mortality when fired at someone? There was no trial and man is now dead who may not otherwise be.

Justice is not achievable through actions of individuals, only through the complex actions of the gestalt entity which is the criminal justice system. As a system it is molded and controlled through the civil and political institutions of our society. Behavior can be codified, predicted, analyzed and modified. Vigilantism introduces unpredicable and chaotic elements which in no way will achieve professed societal aims.

I am not here to defended the suspect. I am just irritated at what I perceive as in inappropriate assumption of authority to which the only response should have been a collectivist one. Criminals and suspected criminals do not exist outside the utility equation which is in any particular society. One agent of change, the vigilante determined that the risk of not acting outweighed the use of force.

One man cannot be an impartial arbiter of the actions which best serve us all.
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Administer triage? LOL
Sorry but this is unreasonable. Time did not stop, this was not in a vaccuum. Time was of the essence.

An officer was shot and down, that's all you can reasonably assume the passerby knew, except for the fact that a man with a gun was there too, who he could reasonably assume shot the officer.

This is not about " vigilante justice" it's about defending the life of another (and others) and the immediacy of the situation.

If you would have gone over and taken the officer's pulse with the shooter looming over the scene, you likely would have wound up in the morgue too.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Wrong, truth IS NOT self evident
Edited on Sat May-12-07 09:16 PM by wuushew
"truth" of crime can only be established after the fact in a court of law.

Why is the idea that the gunman would continue on a murderous rampage the most likely outcome given past similar cases? Sufficient time existed to premeditate the decision to confront him, therefore the time existed to contemplate alternative courses of action and associated philosophical meanings.



People who mean well are always blameless?
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You reply makes little sense
Honestly. It also tells me that I hope you are never the only one around to make a quick decision to save a life.

First of all, (again) all that was known to the passerby is that an officer was injured. You don't declare someone dead by seeing him/her on the ground.

Secondly, how are you determining "sufficient time?" Please elaborate.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #31
43. Wow, you are unreasonable.
Good thing the law has the "reasonable person" standard, not the wacko standard.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
46. ROFL...
so do you think people who violate the rights of others but are never convicted in a court of law are not criminals?

Do you think people who are convicted but did no wrong are criminals?

The justice system is far, far from perfect.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
49. in reply
"Why not call for medical assistance or administer triage instead?"

The citizen's son was calling for help as he was confronting the shooter.

"Why is the idea that the gunman would continue on a murderous rampage the most likely outcome given past similar cases?"

Maybe because the shooter was still holding a gun? It is very unlikely that the person who came upon the scene had ever encountered a similar case.

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ljaycox Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
65. Look...
The punk did not think the civie passerby had the guts to shoot him down--he was wrong--the fatal slip. Chlorine in the gene pool--F the punk, I glad he's dead. No wasted money on a trial.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
77. Pardon me while I laugh
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
83. Completely ridicules and absurd
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Nope
pistol wounds are fatal in less than 10 percent of shootings. Depending on the details the situation warranted an action. If the guy is on the concrete with a gaping head wound returning fire is rational. There is little to nothing a person can do to treat a gunshot wound to the torso or head in the field.

So the person returned fire and killed a murdering POS. Squares with me..
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I agree - this was a self-defense shooting from what I read
the officer was down. The assailant was still on the scene with a gun. The passerby was perfectly justified in grabbing the officer's gun and defending the officer(who he couldn't know was dead) and his own son who was calling for help. Good grief he gave the assailant a chance to drop the gun. He was perfectly justified.

You Monday morning lawyers would've gotten yourself killed in this situation or you wouldn't have stopped to come to the aid of the officer.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. How can you admister first aid..
when the shooter is still there, with a gun?

The motorist, Floyd, had a very good reason to believe that Kenney had just shot and killed a cop. A felony. It was, in this particular case, at that particular time, in the interest of public safety for Floyd to prevent Kenney from escaping, by using lethal force if necessary.

There are provisions in the law for these rare cases when law enforcement and the courts can't work normally. This is one of those cases.

It is true that Floyd did not have to do what he did. He simply could have raced past and called 911. He chose to act to protect both the fallen officer in particular and society in general.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. wow, you are kind of out there...
two men are dead because of the actions of one criminal which also happened to die.

I'm studying to be an EMT, and one of the first things we are taught is scene safety, you do not go into the scene to take care of the patients if it is not safe.

You cannot go in and start working on a downed officer if there is still a crazy there with a gun who poses a threat to that officer or to you.

As for all your gibberish about justice, and codification, thats all good and nice, but sounds like the ramblings of someone who thinks too much and probably things too much of themselves aswell.

The world nor the universe is a nice, ordered, structured place. There is chaos and unpredicability everywhere. It could be that when we all died we will simply cease to be and nothing matters, so all that matters is right here and now and doing your best to get through the day, which is what the "vigilante" in this situation did. He did what he thought was right at the time, and I and many others think he handled the situation just fine.
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
51. The man had just killed a cop.
If he had been allowed to leave the scene, there is no telling how many other innocent people would have died. Mr. Floyd did the right thing.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #26
53. Himself, his son, against a guy who refused to drop his weapon when asked and was pointing it at
the fellow.
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Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
55. Was the cop dead when he got to him?
Edited on Sun May-13-07 12:31 PM by Show_Me _The_Truth
What if he was not?

Self defense also includes defending others. I only hope I would be as brave.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I don't believe it is a good assumption- Bode was not
very happy with the 'organized' team anyhow- He's been in the cross-hairs for awhile. He'd decided to go independent before this ever happened according to the sports news-

As for the vigilantism- this wasn't done in punishment or revenge- The shooter, Mr Floyd, didn't intend to shoot Kenney- just stop him. Liko wouldn't stop, and re-loaded his gun instead- he'd shot McKay several times (in the back) and run over him 4..? times- he was then driving away-

This wasn't an ideal situation, and YES the 'size' of the town does factor into it- We're talking about neighbors here- people who know each other. I don't think the fact that Mr. Floyd killed Liko is something he (or his son, who was with him) will ever forget.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Oh, no cause and effect, necessarily, but he's headed home where he might not have been
He might have headed to Hawaii or elsewhere...who knows?

I wouldn't let a guy who had shot and run over a cop trot off either, if I had access to a weapon. He'd be a danger to the community.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Exactly. Even if this was a personal killing against the cop, the guy could have killed others
After he'd shown a propensity to take someone's life in such a violent manner, the only sane assumption is that he's capable of doing so again--possibly while he was still in a rage. He needed to be stopped and that passerby and his son saw they were the only ones present in a position to do so.

It's a horrible tragedy all around.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Well the shooter probably would have shot the passer-by
It doesn't sound like he was playing with a full deck.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
67. If the gentleman was trying to proctect the police officer who
Edited on Sun May-13-07 11:50 PM by MadMaddie
obviously was down....(the citizen would not know if he was still dead or alive) then the citizen would be a good samaritan would he not?

The man was armed....the citizen needed to help the wounded officer....

Would I stop and help the officer absolutely.....

If there are issues it will go in front of a grand jury...and the grand jury will determine if charges should be filed.


Apparantly Bode and his cousin had great animosity towards the officer....

You know there is a tendency when a criminal is killed to blame the cop that killed him or the civilian that killed him.....he created the situation that got himself killed....


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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. If it were illegal, he'd be charged with a crime, yes?
Since he wasn't, it seems it was legal.

I don't know all the facts. Maybe the cop wasn't dead yet. Or maybe it's not illegal to shoot a killer who is trying to flee the scene, still armed and dangerous? Or maybe he wasn't fleeing the scene, and was still armed and dangerous....and that was how the passerby got such a clear shot?

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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. No, it's not vigilantiism, and it's not illegal.
Vigilantiism is a form of revenge. It doesn't apply in this case. If the suspect had been unarmed and was shot as retaliation, it would have been vigilantiism, although I've heard of people getting away with it in some places (I remember a case in Texas).

In this case, the passerby tried to intervene in an active crime. The suspect had shot a cop, was still armed, and was at the scene of the crime still. If other officers had been on the scene, he would have had to yield to their instructions, obviously. But this is no different than if you wandered upon a rape, an assault, or any other crime. You have the right (in some cases, you may even have the legal obligation) to do what is in your power to stop the crime.

Unless the story changes (and these things sometimes do), the passerby saw a crime being committed, intervened by picking up a nearby weapon and ordering the suspect to drop his weapon, and then shot when the suspect did not drop his weapon. At that point, not only was the passerby trying to halt a crime, but he was excersing self defense.

You can argue whether the passerby was morally right, or whether this should have been a crime, etc, but it wasn't vigilantiism, and it wasn't, as far as the story has been told so far, a crime.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #36
73. Thank you for explaining the difference between a vigilante
and a good samaritan.

Kind of sad that you have to explain what should be common knowledge.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
40. Citizen's arrest
The passer-by, Floyd, saw a man commit a murder by killing a cop. Under the laws for citizen's arrest, Floyd had every legal right to arrest the murderer because he has a reasonable belief that a felony had been committed. There is also every reason to think that the murderer poses an imminant, clear and present danger to society and must not be allowed to escape, even if it means using lethal force.

This was not vigilante justice because it happened in the act. The brother of the cop, for example, didn't kill Kenney a week afterwards in Kenney's shower. THAT is vigilante justice.

In this particular case, the dashboard camera on the police cruiser probably captured the whole thing, or at least the audio part of it. And the investigators felt it was justified.

Was this the best possible outcome? No, it wasn't. The best outcome after the cop was killed was Kenney being arrested by the police. The worst outcome was Kenney escaping capture. This outcome falls somewhere in the middle.
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
87. I see him as a hero.
He did something few would have the guts to do, and was well within the law in doing it.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why mention Miller?
Because it makes for a flashier headline, that's why. Pathetic.

There's no need for Miller to be mentioned in this.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Bad Seed......
They were cousins, after all....







:sarcasm:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Well, denying the relationship is "managing the news" too. What if it were Bush's cousin?
Shouldn't that be part of the story? The guy is what the guy is...and Bode had bailed him out in the past.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. Didn't have a choice. Rules and all that
I included the required unaltered title of the story and four paragraphs that I felt explained the story enough in a summary fashion. I always include the first paragraph with the dateline and such in it.

I do not follow skiing, so I don't know Miller from a hole in the wall, myself.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
44. My reaction as well
I think it's an unusual story in itself and perhaps a passing statement in the story MAY have been warranted mentioning the relationship.

Bode has nothing to do with his cousin though and it makes no sense for him to be in the headline.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-12-07 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. I've been through Franconia....
I live about 80 miles south.The town is Rte 3 and about a dozen adjacent streets...There's a diner there run by a christian family that serves a great breakfast and a few biblical verses and for me the one makes the other forgivable...They are what we here call "North of the Notches" meaning they are in the Northern 1/3 of the state accessible only via two narrow mountain passages.To their south and west are the notches themselves,listed by Motorcyclist Magazine as one of the ten most scenic rides in America.North of the Notches is only the disappearing paper mill city of Berlin and towns of under 5-8K population living off tourists and being scenic...Bode is just a small town boy who made it and his cousin an appearent flake...Towns up there seldom have any police-just resident state troopers...as in the guy who shot his cousin most likely knew the trooper...The last big news up there was another flake who shot two troopers and the editor of the local newspaper,then later a Vermont Fish & Games officer over taxes or some such...In short, it is a very different place and I pray for the family of the officer and thank all our resident troopers for their service.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
59. I'm glad you said that...
Edited on Sun May-13-07 05:13 PM by Tesha
> as in the guy who shot cousin most likely knew the trooper...

I'm glad you said that. This is one of the ways that New Hampshire
is still a lot like the way "things used to be". Heck, I live in a pretty
big city (at least by NH standards) and even *I* know a fair number
of the cops, whether from running into them chaperoning kids'
dances or just from around town. And even if I don't actually know
them personally, I still know that they're fellow travellers on this
planet. For example, that state trooper who lives over on Route
xxx, parks his patrol car in front of his house most evenings,
and often crosses my path in the mornings. I'd like to believe that
if I came across him in a jam, I'd try to help him.

New Hampshire really is different. Just to give you an idea of
how different, you can still do cash business with someone you'll
never meet face-to-face. If the sign by the side of the road
says "Fresh Eggs!" and there's a cooler sitting there, you stop,
put your money in the cashbox, and take your eggs. And yes,
you leave the previous persons' money in the cashbox.

The story of the fellow defending a state trooper while his son
called for help rings absolutely true to me.

Tesha
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
48. Bode's always been known as a "bad boy," but I don't think the headline
is fair at all. The horrible act the cousin committed has nothing to do with Bode or skiing. Like the California horse stuck in a ditch piece shown on CNN, this is a local, not a national story.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
50. Sounds Like The Officer Had Been Harassing This Guy For Years...
and he finally snapped. I'm not condoning the killing of the officer, but lets not just assume that he was a perfect angel in all of this.

"The officer used pepper spray on Kenney and his passenger and then turned around and was shot, Ayotte said Saturday at a news conference in Concord. "

The officer seemed awful casual about what was going on for him to to spray a couple of folks and then turn his back to them as if nothing happened. It will be interesting to hear the passengers story.

Jay
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Yup.
I think there's alot more to this than meets the eye. There's nothing like a small-town feud to heat things up. Sounds like there was bad blood between them.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. They had repeated conflicts
Which is to be expected of a repeat troublemaker in a small town. I don't know if the cop was seeking out Kenney or if Kenney was just a bad apple.

Regardless, the Good Sumaritan, Floyd, acted in an appropriate manner. A fallen, injured cop, his attacker standing over him with a gun? Only two things to do: intervene or stand back and call the police.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. I'd Be Interested In Seeing The In-Car...
camera footage of the attacker standing over the downed officer with a gun. I'm not buying a whole lot of this story.

Jay
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. Coming soon to CourtTV! :-) n/t
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #62
78. Why are you skeptical about this incident? Was the passerby harrassing Kenney, too?
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Some Reading.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Deadly...

"The relationship between Liko and this McKay was volatile -- explosive -- and it happened," Kenney's uncle, Bill Kenney, said of their deadly confrontation. "They had bad blood, and you can understand, and it came to a head (Friday) night."

According to Rob Hayward, whose friend Caleb Macauley was in the car with Liko Kenney Friday night, the history shared by Kenney and McKay is what led Kenney to attempt to drive away after the traffic stop.

"Because the officer didn't want to bring in another officer in from another area as a witness, I guess Liko was afraid that something was up and he drove off at a slow rate of speed," said Hayward, who said he had spoken with Macauley about what transpired Friday night.


One encounter between Kenney and McKay, multiple sources said, left Kenney with a broken jaw and resulted in a lawsuit. Bill Kenney, said the suit was dismissed because there were no witnesses to the alleged incident.

"(McKay's) been after poor Liko ever since then," said Hugh McLean, whose wife, Jean, owns Floradale florist shop. "I suppose you can say he finally got him. Liko got him, too."


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/14/sports/othersports/14...

While Liko Kenney, who was 24, is not seen here as a saint, many residents say that McKay and Kenney had feuded for years, and that their history in and out of court presented a conflict that made justice impossible. Kenney was convicted in 2003 of assaulting McKay and spent time in jail. Kenney claimed that McKay had attacked him and kicked him in the head, Bill Kenney said.

Upon release, Kenney was forced to wear an ankle bracelet that identified his whereabouts to the police. According to several residents of Franconia, the towns police had agreed after that incident that if McKay ever stopped Kenney in Franconia, Kenney could ask for another officer to be brought to the scene.



Some comments from people who claim to hail from Fanconia

"A closer look needs to be taken in the case of the death of both Liko Kenney and Bruce McKay. The young Kenney boy is not the only person this officer singled out and relentlessly harassed. He is being made out to be a hero and he most certainly is not. I am not saying he deserved to die by any means but this was far more than a routine traffic stop. McKay had increased his harassment of the Kenney boy in recent weeks as many people know......"







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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. What would possibly lead to that kind of conclusion? Do you have some information on this?
Otherwise, it's just baseless speculation.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Call It A Hunch.
Baseless accusation hugh? We'll see.

Jay
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Jesus. How low can you get? Smearing a dead cop based on your "hunch"?
That's really pathetic. Really and truly pathetic.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Oh My God,...
I think I'm going to :cry:.
Now let me tell you something. I know cops. ...lots of cops. I have friends who are cops. I have family members who are cops. I went to school for three-and-a-half years to be a cop. I've been on lots of calls with cops. You know what? From what I've seen, I don't trust the lot of'em and that story is a little too neat to be the whole truth. I'm sorry that my questioning of the official story equates to smearing a dead police officer to you; but what can I do?

Jay
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. You don't trust the lot of 'em? Broadbrush smears of cops don't work with me.
Especially dead cops. Who have been shot in the back by local trouble makers. And then had their corpse run over by the piece of shit who shot them in the back.

Ummm....I'll side with the dead, shot in the back and run over cop any day of the week.

You come back to me with some fucking FACTS to back up your harassment claim...and then we'll talk.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Look at post #54, the 'hunch' was dead on.
Seemed kinda obvious to me, though.
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #69
70. The punk resists arrest , breaks the cops jaw. That's police harrassment in your book?
Edited on Mon May-14-07 07:52 AM by Beausoir

You are not even in the ballpark. Just broadbased smears based on "a hunch". You'd never make it in the news business.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #70
79. No, it was the cop who broke Kenney's jaw. nt
One encounter between Kenney and McKay, multiple sources said, left Kenney with a broken jaw and resulted in a lawsuit. Bill Kenney, said the suit was dismissed because there were no witnesses to the alleged incident.

"(McKay's) been after poor Liko ever since then," said Hugh McLean, whose wife, Jean, owns Floradale florist shop. "I suppose you can say he finally got him. Liko got him, too."

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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #79
89. What a laugh!
Sources say and then it says, no witness's.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #70
82. Everyone in the case said there was a fued between the two.
Even if the officer was the best officer in the world, fueds just don't happen, there has to be recriprocation, and the evidence seems to suggest that there was.

This of course does not justify the murder of the officer, and all around it's just a terrible tragedy. Someone should've interferred long ago and got them to settle their dispute, regardless of who 'started it.'
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #82
92. "Everyone says". "Some people say". Only the family of the criminal are pushing this bunk.


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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. Broad-brush Smears Of Cops Don't Work With You Hugh?
Well good for fucking you. Aren't you the pious one. ...and you want fucking facts? FACTS? You don't even know what the facts are now. You know what the media and the police department told you. You don't have any more first-hand knowledge of the event then the rest of us. Get over your fucking self. I think you're in for a big letdown on this one and if that makes me a smearer of dead cops then so be it.

Jay
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #72
91. Ok..at least you admit it. You smeared a dead cop based on your own dislike of the police.
Put the crack-pipe down and wait for some facts.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. No, That's Your Definition.
Kinda like if you don't support the war you don't support the troops. What facts are you waiting for? You've got all the facts you need. One part evil, one part sterling and one part hero. Fuck the facts.

Jay
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. You washed-out of the law enforcement program. That's why you hate cops.
You couldn't cut it.

Tell me I am wrong.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Not Even Close.
Nice try though. I wondered if and when you'd resort to that. If you must know, I was on an academic scholarship that paid the bulk of my tuition. The summer before my fourth year the bar to qualify for the scholarship was raised raised due to state budget issues.
We were in the troughs of the Bush I recession, ya know. I lost my scholarship and got a job at the end of the summer. The rest is history. Oh did I forget to mention that I completed the two year program and decided that instead of going into LE right away I'd transfer to a four year school and try for a federal position?
Jay
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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #50
74. He used spray on him only AFTER he drove off
..and was pulled over the second time. Given the bad blood between these two guys, it showed restraint on the cop's part that he didn't approach with his gun drawn.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. More from the NH Union Leader
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Deadly...

FRANCONIA Liko Kenney and Franconia Police Cpl. Bruce McKay were on a collision course that left both men dead.

Four years before their fatal confrontation Friday night, Kenney was convicted of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer. The officer he assaulted was McKay.

And that was just one chapter in a history of bad blood between the two men, local residents -- including friends and relatives of Kenney -- said yesterday.



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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-13-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
56. Argument less restricive concealed carry laws (not). Floyd should NOT have
had to stop and pick up the injured officers weapon. It would have been much less risky all around if he and every other passerby were able to pull out their own weapons and blow Kenney up in a crossfire. A hail of bullets, delivering swift justice and revenge, saving the court systems time and expense.
:sarcasm:

RIP Cpl.McKay. Our gun laws have failed you too.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
84. Always the assertion
never the fact.

Now that 40 some states (and thousands of citizens) have concealed carry it shouldn't be too hard for you to find even 1 example of this scenario playing out, huh?

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scrinmaster Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
96. We've had legal CCW here in Florida for 20 years now.
There are several hundred thousand CCW holders here. You're scenario never happens. Even in Alaska or Vermont, where anyone who can legally own a handgun can CCW, this never happens.
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bigworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
75. Picture of the asshat
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
86. The same crowd who oppose concealed carry
and seek punishment of a citizen who dares act in self defense, run to the defense of this back shooting, cop killing known criminal looking for reasons that the cop or the citizen should be to blame and/or prosecuted. Unbelievable.
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qdemn7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Isn't it?
The depths some people will sink to defend some scumbag. Disgusting. :nuke:

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
88. Floyd was clearly wrong, he should have fled the scene as any gun-grabber would have done. n/t
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-14-07 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
94. Floyd, the passerby, is a hero.

It sounds like Kenny could not have been in imminent fear of his life even though he may not have been looking forward to another interaction with Cpl McKay (unless the witness in Kenny's car isn't telling us something).

Either way, Floyd was very brave to jump in the middle of that to help the fallen police officer. Too bad Kenny didn't drop the gun and surrender himself.

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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #94
98. Actually, it's starting to turn out that Floyd the hero was another nutcase.
Edited on Tue May-15-07 08:28 AM by Tesha
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID...

Floyd had own run-ins

By ANNMARIE TIMMINS
Monitor staff
May 15. 2007 8:00AM

The man who jumped to the aid of a shot police officer in Franconia
Friday offered a very different response several years ago to a pair
of New Hampshire troopers investigating him on a criminal charge.
In 1997, Gregory Floyd, 49, told the troopers how he'd kill them
if he wanted them dead.

"I know you wear vests," Floyd told them, according to court records.
"So I would have put it right between the eyes."

<snip>

In the past, Floyd has found himself the target of police investigations,
according to court records made available yesterday.

Floyd's arrest record goes back to at least 1981, when he was convicted
in Georgia of selling marijuana and theft by unauthorized taking, the
court records said. Floyd also had a misdemeanor offense of disturbing
the peace in Massachusetts, but the date of that offense was not
available yesterday. It is unclear from court records when Floyd,
his wife Michelle and son Gregory Floyd moved to New Hampshire.

He was in the state by 1997, when he was arrested twice within a month.

In May of that year, the state police charged Floyd with criminal
threatening for allegedly showing a clenched fist to a 24-year-old
meter reader for New Hampshire Co-op. According to court records,
Floyd asked the meter reader, "Do I need to kick your ass?"

<snip>

Upon further checking, the police learned that Floyd's 1991 drug arrest
in Georgia was a felony level offense. That, the state police concluded,
meant Floyd could not legally own guns in New Hampshire. In June 1997,
the state police added a second charge against Floyd: being a felon in
possession of firearms.

<more>

-=-=-=-=-=-

Sounds like the ideal NRA poster boy for increased concealed carry,
doesn't he? Drug felonies, theivery, violent past, gun collector,
hunter who shoots near other folks' homes...

Tesha
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. This is small-town life
I know a lot of folks in my little burg that have bi-monthly run-ins with the police. In a little community, it's often the same people getting in trouble over and over. Frequent flyers.

I know a great deputy out here who's despised by several of them. Law-abiding citizens Monday through Thursday, but after the bar closes all bets are off.

"Feuds" aren't uncommon between cops in small towns and their regular customers. It's not harrassment if they get pulled over for speeding every Saturday night, it's just that they're speeding every Saturday night, and usually drunk. And it's the same cop that picks them up, because there's only like five that work the town.

There are bad cops, but anyone who's lived in a small town can tell you this isn't as likely as the "frequent flyer" scenario.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. oh well, Floyd was far from squeaky clean.

But yet, he probably did a good thing by coming the officers aid.

If he has done other bad things in his life for which he needs to be held accountable, then so be it.

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