Cherokee Nation votes to expel 'freedmen'

[Heidi]

Tribe revokes membership of an estimated 2,800 descendants of slaves
Updated: 11:52 p.m. ET March 3, 2007
OKLAHOMA CITY - Cherokee Nation members voted Saturday to revoke the tribal citizenship of an estimated 2,800 descendants of the people the Cherokee once owned as slaves.

With all 32 precincts reporting, 76.6 percent had voted in favor of an amendment to the tribal constitution that would limit citizenship to descendants of “by blood” tribe members as listed on the federal Dawes Commission’s rolls from more than 100 years ago.

The commission, set up by a Congress bent on breaking up Indians’ collective lands and parceling them out to tribal citizens, drew up two rolls, one listing Cherokees by blood and the other listing freedmen, a roll of blacks regardless of whether they had Indian blood.

Some opponents of the ballot question argued that attempts to remove freedmen from the tribe were motivated by racism.

“I’m very disappointed that people bought into a lot of rhetoric and falsehoods by tribal leaders,” said Marilyn Vann, president of the Oklahoma City-based Descendants of Freedmen of Five Civilized Tribes.

Tribal officials said the vote was a matter of self-determination.

More: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17442676/

[pitohui]

1. it's all about the dollar bill

lots of casino cash at stake and if you can kick some people out of the nation, that's all the bigger your share of the $$$

i'm a little shocked but in a way i'm not even surprised

[wilde]

18. What a disappointment

It is all about the money. Something not too dissimilar that happened with the Pechanga tribe. The tribe even ignored their own anthropologist's conclusion that one "disenrolled" group of 90 was certainly part of the tribe. All told, after 220 expulsions, the remaining tribe members got to keep an additional $53 million/year that would have been paid in casino royalties to those removed.
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/11067511/detail.html

[Heidi]

22. Welcome to DU, wilde!

:hi:

And thanks for that link. Reading it now. :hi:

[CountAllVotes]

44. welcome to the DU wilde!

That is interesting about the anthropologists concluding descent. I doubt they would make this claim if this had not be throughly researched and studied carefully.

From my understanding, the Cherokee tribal members don't really understand where the money is going and how it is being dispersed.

Actually, I just spoke with them last week about a different issue and they said to me, "A lot of people are saying they are Cherokee these days." I replied, "Well I am not claiming anything as I know who I am. I don't want anything from the tribe. I'm just trying to find out who my mother was and what happened to her family."

They had nothing to say after that. I wrote them again a few days later and received a reply that they had no records in 1920 of what happened to members of the tribe that were adopted out.

And to think they are tossing out members of the tribe based on the color of their skin is despicable to me but as I mentioned earlier, this is a loophole they've got being the Cherokee tribe traditionally did not recognize those of African descent. There are plenty of these people around and they know it.

The whole thing - the casino and the pitifully funded IHS all add up to cutting the tribal roles.

I remember about 15 years ago you had to be 1/332nd blood quantum to claim tribal membership I believe it was. I wonder what it is now? Has it changed? At that time they were also taking in trial members that had been adopted by members of the tribe. Is this no longer the case? At that time they believed that there was power in numbers.

Lots of questions and no answers.

It is also really sad too as there were many Cherokee that left Georgia before the Trail of Tears and ended up in Arkansas where many still live today (known as the "early removals"). None of these Cherokee in Arkansas are "recognized" as tribal members being none of them show up on the Final Dawes Rolls.

What a huge greedy mess is all I can say. :evilfrown:

:dem: :kick:

[Robert P]

29. That's the sad truth.

It seems there must be a countersuit possible here. But, the laws are over my head when it comes to Native American internal affairs.

[AngryAmish]

43. Indian tribes are considered Indian Nations

From their point of view the US courts have as much to say about their citizenship than we have things to say about who gets to be a citizen of Zimbabwe. They can vote anyone in or out.

I think. As you said, the laws are very complex and I am far, far from being an expert.

[ohio2007]

36. How many indian casino's will this ruling impact?

[Heidi]

39. Here's a list of all Indian gaming establishments in Oklahoma.

I don't know how current it is, but to my knowledge the Cherokee Nation doesn't conduct any gaming operations outside of Oklahoma.

http://500nations.com/Oklahoma_Casinos_Cities.asp

[semillama]

42. it truly is.

Similar thing happened back in the 90s with the Keweenaw Bay Indian Community (Ojibwa) - except instead of removing people with African descent from the tribal rolls, it was the people who were politically against the tribal leaders. There was a stand off and everything.
more info: http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/news/kewenaw.html

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Yeah, now that there's real money involved from the casinos,

best to trim down the tribe sizes.

Back when there wasn't any money involved, it was easier to call the outsider Brother.

Sad that greed has affected even these people.

[Heidi]

3. Some background: WIRED magazine, Sept. 2005 | Blood Feud

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.09/seminoles.html

(Not sure why the web editor used "seminoles" in the URL. :shrug: )

[Broken_Hero]

4. And some more

http://www.afrigeneas.com/forume/index.cgi?noframes;read=10427

[Broken_Hero]

5. And a bit more,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Act

[Heidi]

6. Did you see the headline at www.kotv.com?

Cherokees Revoke Tribal Membership
Of Their Freed Slaves' Descendants

www.kotv.com

[Broken_Hero]

8. No, reading it now nt

[Broken_Hero]

10. Unbelievable,

Chad Smith...what a waste. When the hell does he come up for re-election anyways, I might write some very ....interesting letters about this idiot.

[Heidi]

11. I believe he's running for re-election in June.

But I also thought the Nation had passed term limits a few years ago. :shrug:

[Broken_Hero]

13. Tammy says, there isn't

but she's not entirely sure(term limits)...I'll google around a bit, and find out...

on edit:its there, not their.

[Heidi]

16. I think the 1999 constitution allows for term limits.

http://www.afrigeneas.com/forume/index.cgi?noframes;read=11556

Smith is currently in his second term, but I don't remember whether the Principal Chief's term is four years. Naturally, cherokee.org is down again.

[Broken_Hero]

17. Yeah, I just found out about it too, two term limits,

"The new constitution also staggers terms for councilors and imposes term limits on councilors and the principal chief and deputy chief. Elected officials may not hold any office for more than two consecutive terms and those term limits will begin with the next election."

http://www.cherokee.org/home.aspx?section=phoenix&ID=uEAJ/s9vXDc=

I learn something new everyday...:D :hi:

[Heidi]

19. So how does _that_ square with _this_:

Smith was elected in 1999
Re-elected in 2003

And he has announced he will seek re-election in this year's June elections: http://www.sequoyahcountytimes.com/articles/2007/03/02/news/front8.txt

[Broken_Hero]

20. Perhaps, because when he got elected in his first term

the constitution wasn't ratified, and when it was, his first term didn't fall under it, like a grandfather clause of sorts? In short, I'm not entirely sure!

[Heidi]

21. No doubt, that's the argument he and Grayson will make.

And ya know, he'll probably be re-elected. Smith and his minions have worked very hard for the past eight years to set Cherokee against Cherokee within the tribal jurisdiction and then appealed to the (generally uninformed) outlander voters to carry them to victory in those two previous elections.

[Broken_Hero]

23. I hope he doesn't get re-elected,

but he probably will...He does pit Cherokee against Cherokee, and also Cherokee against other tribes as well...they usually use the "the reason why you(cherokee) are suffering is because of X, Y, and Z" XYZ usually being other cherokee's aka UKB(United Keetowah Band), Freedman...and in truth, the reason why a good portion of the suffering happens, is caused by mismangement of the tribe, aka Smith.

[UncleSepp]

37. That is some scary stuff right there.

The idea of a DNA test to tell what "racial" ancestry a person has scares the bejeebus out of me. Ugh. I have chills.

[Heidi]

38. Have you read "War Against the Weak"?

http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/

[JCMach1]

7. They are disenfranchising 'black' Cherokees

This is a blatantly racist and greedy move on their part.

Maybe 'black' Cherokees should demand slave reparations as some were slaves on Cherokee plantations in the 18th and early 19th century!

[Heidi]

9. Not a bad idea, re: reparations.

But the Dawes Commission itself was a racist convention of removal, established by the government to (eventually) ensure the extinction of the tribes. (See Edwin Black's excellent treatise on eugenics in the US: "War Against the Weak.") Certainly, sovereign nations (like the federally recognized Indian tribes) have the right to set their own conditions for citizenship, but I find it very sad that the Cherokee Nation is relying upon the Dawes Roll as the litmus test for citizenship.

How Principal Chief Chad Smith thinks this whole thing is going to be good for the Cherokee Nation in the long term is a mystery to me.

[Broken_Hero]

12. This part.

"How Principal Chief Chad Smith thinks this whole thing is going to be good for the Cherokee Nation in the long term is a mystery to me."

He does it to pander, to distract from other issues, that really matter...much like the RW, the RW throw distractions aka Flag Burning amendments/video game censorship, etc etc.....its fodder for the masses.

[Heidi]

14. He also opposes same-sex marriage.

Remember when Kathy Reynolds and Dawn McKinley were married within the official tribal jurisdiction, and Smith went on a rampage and appealed to the JAT?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/31/AR2005073100885.html

[Broken_Hero]

15. I didn't know about this story,

just another reason why Mr. Smith, should be utterly despised.

[Heidi]

24. He passed up a chance to make the Cherokee Nation

to do the right thing and at the same time be perceived as a beacon of progressive enlightenment.

[oneinok]

25. it's about the $$$$$$$

Chad Smith is building a huge casino empire in Catoosa Oklahoma. Guess who is helping him????? ex-congressman Brad Carson who destroyed the Oklahoma Democrat Party with over $1,000,000.00 in debt after the last election.

Remember, it was Brad Carson who said he was not a Democrat...but a member of the Oklahoma Party.

When asked in a debate by Coburn "what political party will do you side with?" Brad Carson refused to answer.

Chad Smith admits to having several wives. The list goes on and on...but it is centered around $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[Heidi]

26. I don't care how many wives Chad Smith has.

On that matter, I defer to his legal wife, his common law wife and their multitude of kids. What I do care about are human rights; I never met a "regular" citizen of the Cherokee Nation who didn't care about human rights.

It's my opinion that Smith and his cronies have gotten on the wrong side of human rights a number of times in the past few years, beginning with the ongoing Freedmen debate and including Smith's campaign to invalidate a legal, same-sex marriage within tribal boundaries.

Blow a kiss to my home state for me, wouldja? :hi:

[Exultant Democracy]

27. Total BS, they raped the crap out of their slaves just like everyone else

BTW anytime a master sleeps with a slave it is rape.

[Heidi]

28. This election may put the Cherokee Nation on the wrong side of the US Goverment.

I'm no lawyer, but the disenfranchisement of the Freedmen's descendants appears to me to be in violation of the 1866 Treaty, which still is in full force. Emphasis mine:

ARTICLE 9.
The Cherokee Nation having, voluntarily, in February, eighteen hundred and sixty-three, by an act of the national council, forever abolished slavery, hereby covenant and agree that never hereafter shall either slavery or involuntary servitude exist in their nation otherwise than in the punishment of crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, in accordance with laws applicable to all the members of said tribe alike. They further agree that all freedmen who have been liberated by voluntary act of their former owners or by law, as well as all free colored persons who were in the country at the commencement of the rebellion, and are now residents therein, or who may return within six months, and their descendants, shall have all the rights of native Cherokees: Provided, That owners of slaves so emancipated in the Cherokee Nation shall never receive any compensation or pay for the slaves so emancipated.

[oneinok]

30. good point

Thanks for the info.

[JCMach1]

32. Reading the treaty seems to say that if this is broken they might 'legally'

be owed reparations!

[Springster]

41. I re-read the passage and the only reparations referred to was to

compensate the owners of freed slaves for the loss of their property - not to the slaves for their loss of freedom.

If anything ever cried out for Al Sharpton and his bullhorn, this is it. Of course, now that he's one of them thar high-falutin Thurmonds, he might not take on this kind of cause anymore.

Alternatively, historically black colleges and universities can all adopt indian mascots until this bad decision is reversed. The University of Illinios has a surplus mascot outfit they no longer need! And just let let the NCAA take on the NAACP and try to bar post-season play only for historically black schools!

[CountAllVotes]

40. there is also an old law floating around

It specifically states the the Cherokee Nation does not recognize persons of African descent as being tribal members. It is an old law and this is part of what they used to push this disenfranchisement through.

Furthermore, it is all about money yes. Not so much the casino monies, but the IHS (Indian Health Service). The IHS has taken massive budgetary hits from the * admin. They cannot afford to take care of everyone in the tribe without the funds.

The easiest way out seems to be to strike those off the roles that the Cherokee had already disenfranchised along time ago - those of African descent (but in reality, this never really happened obviously).

I don't think the Cherokee get much from the casino operations - maybe a few hundred a month at best per person and believe me, many Cherokee are not on the roles as I myself am one of them. I want nothing from the Cherokee tribe personally.

However, the health care being provided by the IHS which is grossly underfunded, is probably costing the tribe a lot more than the casino operations are paying out would be my guess.

In the meantime, I agree, the whole thing really does suck! :mad:

:dem: :kick:

[rebel with a cause]

33. I thought this was the case also, (raped slave women)

but read today that some of these "freedmen" are descendents of freed slave men and Cherokee women who were actually married, thus the name "freedman". Of course, it could be the other way around, the freed slave could have been a woman who married a Cherokee man. The Cherokee were known for marrying out side the tribe, that is how my one group of ancestors came about. A Cherokee woman married a white man, when her and their daughter were put on the Trail of Tears, he helped them escape and came to Illinois where they passed. Never claimed any money from the government because, what the family thinks, they did not want anyone to know who they were. Well, I guess if I can claim the horse thief and the bootlegger that was in my ancestry, I can go ahead and admit to having my slave owning people in both the Europeans and maybe the Cherokee. :blush:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. What's really ironic (and racist) is that some of the "blacks" are

as much as half Cherokee, while there are other people, who will remain tribal members, who had maybe one Cherokee ancestor three or four generations ago but are otherwise white both in appearance and in culture.

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. You Are Right

It's right there in the Dawes Commission rolls. Any person who is 1/8th Indian but is otherwise white was put on the "Indian by Blood" column.

[dkofos]

34. Indian givers!!

[ohio2007]

35. Freedom is slavery

[Heidi]

45. UPDATE | Black Cherokees to challenge ouster from tribe

Cherokee Nation voted to expel 2,800 whose ancestors were held as slaves
Updated: 10:00 p.m. ET March 6, 2007
OKLAHOMA CITY - Black Cherokee Indians said Tuesday they will challenge a weekend vote to kick them out of the tribe that once owned their ancestors as slaves.

They threatened legal action to overturn the vote Saturday in which 77 percent of those who cast ballots said they should no longer be Cherokees.

"We are working with our attorneys," Marilyn Vann, president of the Descendants of Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes, told Reuters. "Rest assured, we will be challenging this."

<snip>

Exclusion from the tribe means the black Cherokees cannot vote in tribal elections or receive entitlements such as health benefits or a share of casino revenues on tribal lands.

The tribe has about 250,000 people, but only 8,500 cast ballots in Saturday's vote.

More: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17491094/

Local coverage
http://www.muskogeephoenix.com/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_063003221.html
http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/local/local_story_065095036.html

[lynne]

47. Looks like the Natives Americans are still irked -

- over that Buffalo Soldier business. Sadly, one race had been at the throat of the other since time began. This time it appears to be about $$$.

[scisyhp1]

48. Great. It only takes 20 rounds of referenda

to democratically reduce the number of members from 10,000 to 2,
if 2/3 majority bands together to expell the remaining 1/3 minority.
The last two members will certainly be the most deserving of the spoils,
having gone through such vigorous selection process.