Graying of US academia stirs debate

[ckramer]

This fall, professor Roy J. Glauber regaled a dozen Harvard freshmen with tales of his youth -- as an 18-year-old undergraduate helping to develop the atomic bomb on the Manhattan Project.

That was more than 60 years ago. Since then, Glauber has raised two children as a single father, became a Nobel laureate, and in September, celebrated his 81st birthday. He has no plans to retire.

He is part of a wave of professors changing the face of academia by working into their 70s and occasionally even their 80s, particularly at the nation's top universities. A law that went into effect in 1994 banned the common university practice of requiring professors to retire at a certain age, usually 70. Improved health and longevity have also encouraged many to stay in the laboratory and the classroom.

This year, 9.2 percent of tenured professors in Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences are 70 or older, compared with none in 1992. Other universities have seen jumps in the percentage of older professors, although the actual number remains small on many campuses.

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2006/12/27/graying_of_us_academia_stirs_debate/

========

Looks like everybody is holding on to his decent job like there is no tomorrow...telling us how great the economy is...

[MikeNearMcChord]

1. Easier to build bombs and prisons than professors and scientists

[newscott]

2. I was pretty lucky.

There were a few old professors at the schools I attended, but the 60's generation was in full flower and tenure when I was in school. Lots of great mentors at just the right age.

[necso]

3. The problem with this is

not age per se. But rather, like was once (at least) said of certain scholarly disciplines: the old theories will hold sway until the old guard dies off.

And where these old theories (models, etc) are inutile, this old guard can hold back progress (much of what is accepted as being "right" is just some line-of-"thought" that some old, important "thinker" came up with -- and that is now supported by legions of believers trained in this way; but sometimes this belief is generational in nature, if only in the degree to which it is rigidly held). (And, of course, any new theories (etc) may be just as inutile.)

[dave_p]

6. Maybe not

I think it can work the other way though, in that younger academics may get swept away by the latest theoretical fad and become zealots for the cause of the day, while their older counterparts have seen so many great theories come & go (including some of their own) that they may be more open to contemplative scepticism and analysis rooted in a wider body of thought. It's good professors that count, and I think age cuts both ways.

[necso]

10. "can hold back progress"

Can: to have the possibility (to).

"And, of course, any new theories (etc) may be just as inutile."

Certainly, new theories (etc) can be even less utile than the old ones (implied, if not specified in the previous; string "theory" comes to mind). In which case, those who oppose these theories, regardless of why they do so, are on the right (better) side.

In my experience, however, the old guard is much more likely to retard thinking that to forward it.

Moreover, it's not really the old per se, it's those who guard the old merely because it's what they know (because it's old; because it stems from some revered person).

[eagler]

21. Their opinions need to be treasured.

They are as valid as anyone else's and provide a great contrast.

[jody]

8. You paint with a broad brush but might not there be differences between

scholars in the math/sciences fields and those in other fields?

IMO, the profs I know personally in math/science in their 70s and 80s are more open to new ideas than young turks.

They have learned from experience, "A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

:toast: to intelligence, wisdom, creativity and sober grey beards.

[necso]

11. "this old guard can hold back progress"

What part of "can" (here: to have the possibility (to)) don't you understand?

"certain scholarly disciplines"

And what part of "certain" (here: some) don't you understand?

"The problem with this is not age per se."

Consistent with this, "old guard" does not mean the elderly (I'm scarcely young myself), but rather those who guard the old merely because it's what they know (because it's old; because it stems from some revered person).

And the "old" modifying "important 'thinker'" refers to a historical perspective. Much "old" work was done by the young -- if some time in the past.

Perhaps you should read more carefully.

[jody]

12. I understand quite well thank you and you do old professors a disservice by

your post.

Cheer up and have a nice evening for you to will someday be old. :hi:

[necso]

14. No, actually I don't.

That's what you're reading into it.

Perhaps that's because of the tone of the piece linked in the OP.

However, my first sentence ("The problem with this is not age per se.") should have immediately, completely dispelled any notion that I thought age was the problem.

Narrow-mindedness, closed-mindedness, predispositions, etc, are by no means problems limited to any one group (except, of course, those groups characterized by these terms).

[jody]

19. Have you been denied tenure or promotion? IMO that's a major source of discontent

for faculty members particularly in fields that are overcrowded.

Sometimes those actions are justified, sometimes not but if that happens, it's wise to put those things aside and move on to the next stage of life.

May success fall like gentle rain on your future fields of endeavors.

:pals:

[Bridget Burke]

17. Perhaps you should write more carefully.

Bitter?

[Posteritatis]

4. I kinda got the best of both worlds

Hit my university right in the middle of the generational shift, almost perfectly at the midpoint between hiring cycles.

About half the faculty were new guys, all fired up, highly specialized, knowledgeable of the latest technological/etc aspects of education, and able to empathize well with the students; about half the faculty were the old guard, grown into their status as generalists, ridiculously multilingual, bolstered by decades of teaching experience and cloaked in terrible wisdom.

As someone who plans on going into education at the university level, I kinda hope to wind up being either in turn. ;)

[dave_p]

5. Keep 'em

I think it's cool. After all, it's not like they're going to stop when they "retire", so why waste that experience? Old professors are like old library books, if they've lasted that long they've obviously something going for them. It's unfortunate that restricting compulsory retirement wasn't accompanied by sufficient expansion to take in the new talent too.

[Greybnk48]

7. Immanual Kant wrote his best work in his 70's

There's much to be gained from Profs who have been around for a while and lived through eras and the process of innovation, rather then just having read about it as students themselves. We need both the young and the old teaching on campus. Young Profs need mentors too.

[JCMach1]

9. These trends have been especially hard on Gen Xers

It has been much harder for us to find positions. Older professors tend to hire people who look and think like themselves.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

13. I appreciated it,

I liked the older faculty alot more than the younger ones who at the time I was in university all seemed to be caught up in post moderninsm or something else equally as crazy.

Post-modernist geography was... uhh... interesting.

[buddysmellgood]

15. I'm calling bullshit on this whole thing. We need to stop looking at age and start

looking at people. If you live an work around a university, it does not take long to figure out who is pulling weight and who is really just taking advantage of the great campus benefits...REGARDLESS OF AGE.
But, I will say this. If it were up to me, I would carry ten low-contributing old faculty if it meant I could keep one that is so smart, so revered and so influential that you know you will mourn their death for the question you never thought to ask. We make some damn brilliant people through our ancient higher education organization. God knows it needs dramatic change and nothing moves slower than change at a university, BUT DO NOT THROW THE BABIES OUT WITH THE BATH WATER!

[eagler]

22. BRAVO

NT

[tblue37]

16. Part of the problem is that university departments are

"tenured in," which means that older profs with tenure are filling up all the positions, and they usually make higher salaries, so there is no money in the budget to hire younger tenure trackers. Instead, universities hire a bunch of very poorly paid adjunct faculty with no hope of ever getting tenure (or a decent salary).

The older tenured profs usually teach very few students per year (and those are largely grad students), while the vast hordes of undergrads are mostly taught by GTAs (graduate teaching assistants) or nontenured adjunct faculty.

[Tansy_Gold]

23. You said exactly what I thought when I read the OP

I think it's great that people who are willing and able to keep on teaching are allowed to do so rather than be forced out at some arbitrary age. But the downside of tenure is that it sometimes -- maybe rarely, maybe occasionally, maybe frequently, I dunno :shrug: but sometimes --provides a safe harbor for those who are less competent, thus locking someone else out of a job.

I watched it happen with one of my instructors a few years ago: her avowed goal was to get tenure and then slack off. She had the complete support of the other tenured professors in her department. Having secured her future, she cut back her teaching load, cancelled classes so she could go to conferences, eased off on assignments (so she wouldn't have so many papers to grade), and generally skated. And bragged about it.

Some of the best instructors I had were the under-paid adjuncts who knew they had to perform to be offered a contract for each coming semester; some of the worst were the tenured bozos who didn't give a shit, who used the same syllabus year after year, who hadn't done any (or even kept up with others') new research in their field for decades, who trotted out their own out-dated publications as examples.

After I got my master's in 2003, several of my instructors asked where I was going to do my Ph.D. work and they were very disappointed when I told them I'd had my fill of academia; pretty much everyone assumed I'd go on to a college teaching career, which was really the only "career" for someone in my particular field. But I told everyone I'd seen the dark side of academia and I didn't want any part of it.

There are days when I regret not going on; then there are posts like the OP that remind me, and I don't miss it at all.


Tansy Gold, who could have been a professional student because learning was so damned much fun

[xchrom]

18. there's a difference between what any professor

teaches{i.e. knowledge acquired and disseminated} and defending a political system that the or any university operates by.

the knowledge that can be disseminated by older profs is incalculable when it is also surrounded by more cutting edge thinking no matter the field.

however if older{and by older, you can really be any age} you defend an internal political system that prohibits diversity and fairness to those younger -- then this is damaging and counter productive.

[AngryAmish]

20. Wait until the Baby Boomers get to retirement age

With tenure and an automatic lifetime salary do you think they will gracefully retire? No f'n way. They will hold onto their jobs with a stranglehold sucking every last dollar out of the taxpayer or the endowment.

[robcon]

24. It's the combination of tenure and no fixed retirement age

Years ago, tenured professors were "forced" to retire at 60 or 65. That's illegal now, and the graying of academia has followed.

[damntexdem]

25. As a professor in a gerontology department, I say:

Good for them!

Of course, it's also harder than it used to be to retire on what a professor makes.