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Newsjock (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:16 AM Original message |
San Francisco school board votes to dump JROTC program |
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keopeli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:23 AM Response to Original message |
1. You gotta love SF! So "ballsy"! n/t |
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RamboLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:26 AM Response to Original message |
2. I disagree - I say let the students choose |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 09:43 AM Response to Reply #2 |
10. The issue is discrimination |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:34 AM Original message |
I don't see how taking away students' choices enhances "fairness" |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:52 AM Response to Original message |
22. What kind of a choice do gay students have in this situation? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:56 AM Response to Reply #22 |
26. I haven't seen any indication that gay students aren't welcome in JROTC |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:05 PM Response to Reply #26 |
36. I think the "no free lunch" rule applies here. |
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hogwyld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:28 PM Response to Reply #36 |
78. Excellent poits |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:07 PM Response to Reply #78 |
82. The core of my political philosophy is personal choice |
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hogwyld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:23 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. While I generally agree with you on choice |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:49 PM Response to Reply #86 |
90. I'm from a military family, my brother is an officer in the Navy |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:54 PM Response to Reply #22 |
68. A gay or lesbian student can join JROTC and even become an officer |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:54 PM Response to Reply #68 |
81. Now imagine saying "A Jewish kid can join the exclusive club at the |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:08 PM Response to Reply #81 |
83. If gays and lesbians were actually banned from the military |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:09 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. But gays and lesbians ARE banned if you know they're gay or |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:16 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. Like a country club that says "We don't care about your religion, BUT..." |
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ProfessorGAC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:51 PM Response to Original message |
66. Let The Military Fund It, Run It, and Do It Off Campus |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:54 PM Response to Reply #66 |
70. Good idea, Professor |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:14 PM Response to Original message |
74. Point is, only the STRAIGHT students get a choice. |
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Ka hrnt (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 09:32 PM Response to Original message |
104. Agreed. |
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michreject (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 07:20 PM Response to Reply #10 |
94. That's a reach |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 09:37 PM Response to Reply #94 |
105. Same difference. |
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michreject (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-17-06 10:23 AM Response to Reply #105 |
110. Not even close |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:29 AM Response to Original message |
3. Very dumb. (nt) |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:37 PM Response to Reply #3 |
62. I agree |
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DRoseDARs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:42 AM Response to Original message |
4. One of my friends was in JROTC in high school and went on to military intel... |
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greccogirl (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:57 AM Response to Original message |
5. What a shame. My son was in ROTC |
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keopeli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:57 AM Response to Original message |
6. Actions like this will IMPROVE the JrROTC and ROTC programs in the future. |
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wellst0nev0ter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 05:43 AM Response to Original message |
7. If They Can't Accept Gays While In San Fransisco, They Can Fuck Off (eom) |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:27 AM Response to Reply #7 |
15. It's supposedly the military's position on gays, not JROTC's in particular |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 09:40 PM Response to Reply #15 |
106. It's a DIRTY BABY. |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 08:38 AM Response to Original message |
8. Truman, a Democrat, desegregated the military and that was a courageous act. IMO the military has |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 08:47 AM Response to Original message |
9. Wow.... people sure have a screwed up idea of JROTC |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 09:46 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. The issue is discrimination, not war |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:26 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. From the article |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:43 AM Response to Reply #14 |
19. You say "no reason" to get rid of program? |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:56 AM Response to Reply #19 |
27. Please don't put words in my mouth |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:02 PM Response to Reply #27 |
32. They can be in it, but they can't get the same benefit from it. |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:16 PM Response to Reply #32 |
39. By extension do you also feel that we should cancel the football program |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:19 PM Response to Reply #39 |
40. If they said "gay football player cannot get scholarships," yes! |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:25 PM Original message |
actually |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:36 PM Response to Original message |
44. I advise you be mad at the military, not the SF school board. |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:42 PM Response to Reply #44 |
50. you really believe that denying these 1600 kids a JROTC program |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:48 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. Would you make the same argument for a group that excluded Jews? |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:40 PM Response to Reply #54 |
64. your beef is w/ the military.... not w/ these kids |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:09 PM Response to Reply #64 |
71. I sincerely believe that no one here would argue that a group |
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feminazi (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:13 PM Response to Reply #27 |
60. Bernie Ward was discussing this last night. |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:00 PM Response to Reply #14 |
30. Also from the article |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:12 PM Response to Reply #30 |
38. fine |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:02 PM Response to Reply #14 |
31. Then the rest of the school clubs need to get off their behinds. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:53 AM Response to Reply #9 |
23. Yeah! Our here, we reject the idea that discipline and team skills |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:58 AM Response to Reply #23 |
28. I don't think I said that either |
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tinymontgomery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:10 AM Response to Original message |
12. As a JROTC instructor |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:34 AM Response to Reply #12 |
17. our drill team is better than your drill team! |
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tinymontgomery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:42 AM Response to Reply #17 |
18. Your web page is too!! |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:48 AM Response to Reply #12 |
21. But you can't offer the same benefits to gay students. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:59 AM Original message |
I thought the policy was still "don't ask/don't tell" |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:04 PM Response to Original message |
34. Please. "Don't ask" is a joke. People are hounded out all the time. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:06 PM Response to Reply #34 |
37. The policy is flawed and needs to be changed |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:21 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. I understand, but disagree. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:30 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. The military is by nature ultra-conservative |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:45 PM Response to Reply #48 |
52. I do advocate progressives entering the officers corps. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:45 PM Response to Original message |
51. Clarification: it prevents any gay person not willing to keep his life |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:05 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. Further clarification: keep his life a total, complete and absolute secret |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:51 PM Response to Reply #51 |
67. There you go |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:11 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. Yes, there I go: I think programs should have to be fair to the students |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:20 PM Response to Reply #72 |
76. JROTC does not discriminate |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:33 PM Response to Reply #76 |
80. I'm not committed one way or the other about the decision, but |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:02 PM Response to Original message |
55. Ask Gretha Cammermeyer. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 08:29 PM Response to Reply #55 |
103. You are talking about life in the military, not in JROTC |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-17-06 01:12 PM Response to Reply #103 |
111. The question was about DADT |
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tinymontgomery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:05 PM Response to Reply #21 |
35. So get the vote out and change it |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:16 PM Response to Reply #35 |
61. Would you be as supportive of a program that excluded Jewish kids? |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:39 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. Excuse me |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:30 PM Response to Reply #63 |
88. Suppose the US military had a "no Jew" rule.... |
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KitSileya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 02:59 AM Response to Reply #88 |
98. That is a very good analogy. |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 10:17 PM Response to Reply #98 |
109. So |
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KitSileya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-17-06 04:10 PM Response to Reply #109 |
112. I don't know too much about the JROTC, |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-17-06 04:53 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. The problem |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 10:11 PM Response to Reply #88 |
108. Easy question |
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Election (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 01:34 PM Response to Reply #12 |
102. As a former JROTC student |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:25 AM Response to Original message |
13. Re: "We need to teach a curriculum of peace.'' |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:59 AM Response to Reply #13 |
29. What crap. Are you advocating conscription for low income students? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:03 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. Your logical extension does not wash |
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hogwyld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:34 AM Response to Original message |
16. Bravo S.F! |
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Tatiana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:43 AM Response to Original message |
20. The JROTC, run ethically, can be very beneficial to students. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:56 AM Response to Reply #20 |
25. The question is, why is it that these opportunities to widen |
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MissMillie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:21 PM Response to Reply #25 |
42. they're not, those opportunities are available in other programs... |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 10:11 PM Response to Reply #42 |
96. So, whose failure of imagination is it that someone can't come up |
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Tight_rope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 11:54 AM Response to Original message |
24. Good for them! |
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qwlauren35 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:25 PM Response to Original message |
43. Well... this is going to be interesting. |
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Big_Mike (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 12:49 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. I find I must agree. |
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hogwyld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:18 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. That sir, is a flawed argument |
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Big_Mike (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 09:21 AM Response to Reply #47 |
99. No, I was arguing an absurdity |
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Duncan Grant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:16 PM Response to Original message |
46. JROTC (junior reserve officer training program) is a military program, not a local one. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:32 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. Next time there is a major earthquake in California... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 01:46 PM Response to Reply #49 |
53. Straw man. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:49 PM Response to Reply #53 |
65. No, it's a social contract |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:12 PM Response to Reply #65 |
73. To the contrary - the military serves the citizens, not the reverse. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:19 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. You're not reading my post correctly |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:30 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. But military service is already available. |
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Duncan Grant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:07 PM Response to Reply #49 |
57. When I think of all the competent GLBT people who won't be able to help... |
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hogwyld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:08 PM Response to Reply #49 |
58. If the military refuses to help us |
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Vidar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:10 PM Response to Original message |
59. Good for Frisco. |
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Der Blaue Engel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 02:54 PM Response to Original message |
69. No. Not "good for us" |
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hogwyld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 03:25 PM Response to Reply #69 |
77. You can't have it both ways |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:27 PM Response to Reply #77 |
87. Simply |
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Der Blaue Engel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 05:15 PM Response to Reply #77 |
92. Sure I can |
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Sequoia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 04:30 PM Response to Original message |
89. San Francisco values-- Peace brother! |
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Neecy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 05:13 PM Response to Original message |
91. I tend to support this decision |
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stevekatz (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 05:37 PM Response to Original message |
93. This is so dumb |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 07:52 PM Response to Reply #93 |
95. Article 125 of UCMJ defines sodomy |
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stevekatz (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-15-06 10:11 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. your right |
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Finder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 11:25 AM Response to Original message |
100. JROTC is a good program...This is not good. n/t |
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transeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 12:21 PM Response to Original message |
101. I'm gay, and I disagree with SF schools on this |
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torrentprime (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-16-06 10:01 PM Response to Reply #101 |
107. Ditto! |
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