NYT: Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers

[Pirate Smile]

Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers


Ron Luce, founder of Teen Mania, with concertgoers at an event in Amherst, Mass., last month that combined music and evangelical exercises.

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: October 6, 2006

Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves.

At an unusual series of leadership meetings in 44 cities this fall, more than 6,000 pastors are hearing dire forecasts from some of the biggest names in the conservative evangelical movement.

Their alarm has been stoked by a highly suspect claim that if current trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be “Bible-believing Christians” as adults. That would be a sharp decline compared with 35 percent of the current generation of baby boomers, and before that, 65 percent of the World War II generation.

While some critics say the statistics are greatly exaggerated (one evangelical magazine for youth ministers dubbed it “the 4 percent panic attack”), there is widespread consensus among evangelical leaders that they risk losing their teenagers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/06/us/06evangelical.html?hp&ex=1160107200&en=4bc2ab121e996b11&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[GoddessOfGuinness]

1. Translation: only 4 percent of teenagers will be

devout proselytizers.

[VegasWolf]

17. or devoutly stupid. nt

[saigon68]

29. Or stupidly Devout like the sheep their parents were

Many of whom were professional draft dodgers like the CHIMPANZEE

[No Exit]

65. MAYBE THE KIDS DON'T WANNA DIE IN MEANINGLESS WARS!!!

And you can't be a good evangelical if you don't back The Braindead Messiah. And you can't back The Braindead Messiah if you don't back meaningless wars which kill American (and other) kids.

[rwheeler31]

2. why

They lie.

[Downtown Hound]

3. Looks like their kids are smarter than their parents

Good for them.

[Tellurian]

6. Exactly- either that or their teenagers

will recognize their parents have been LYING TO THEM, as well

[ShockediSay]

61. First, Teens are the first to recognize hypocrisy; Second,

Jesus came for the sinners, not the self righteous. Mark 9:13

[LiberalFighter]

47. Their t-shirts lookslike it has a electric socket ...

showing they want someone to plug into them?

[crikkett]

48. no double meaning there

:evilgrin:

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. Makes you wonder about how happy family life is

for mega-church conservatives.

[LiberalFighter]

44. Some of those churches I wonder when they have time

to do anything else except make fun of themselves or as the minister probably thinks make fun of his congregants. Some of them spend how many hours at a service? Geesh!! I wonder how many days a week they do that. That is something that young kids do not enjoy. Only total fanatics would submit to something like that.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone here that attends any of these mega churches or of the type that I described above. For those that are not here... I don't care!

[Lars39]

55. How can you have a family life if you are always at church

or on the way to church, or at extra-curricular activities or school.
The parents that have their kids at church all the time have minimal time with their kids.

[w4rma]

5. Quit lying to your congregations and telling them to ignore their own eyes

then.

Quit trying to start wars and forment hatred against folks who aren't like you.

Practice and preach what Jesus preached in the New Testiment, instead of using the Old Testiment to try to validate your sins against others.

[Ishoutandscream2]

41. Amen. I was told by a co-worker

that I couldn't be a believer if I adheared only to the teachings of Christ and ignored the insane rantings (my words) of the Old Testament. So I replied that I must be a born again agnostic.

[LiberalFighter]

45. If they are a Christian then about half of the books in the NT

should be ignored because they are not Jesus's words.

[GeorgeGist]

49. Which books did Jesus write?

I've never found one.

[LiberalFighter]

60. Not a one... only books with his sayings are the first 4 in NT

About half of NT are letters written by Paul and the remaining are either known or questionable as to who really wrote them. Then there is the question as to why other writings weren't included.

After all the research and reading I have done I have serious doubt about the validity of any religion. I have come to the conclusion that religion was created as a way to control people and it is another form of government.

[Nevernose]

7. Statistically, it's the exact OPPOSITE

We are in the middle of a third (or fourth, depending upon how you count) Great Awakening. The youth of America are an enormous part of this. A few stastics that I remember from Righteous: Dispatches from the Evangelical Youth Movement by Lauren Sandler are that enrollment in Christian Universities in the past 15 years is up one hundred percent, and sales of Christian Music are up 300 percent. Christian book sales are up even more, but I don't remeber the exact amount. Other frightening statistics presented were the number of teens who believe that the Bible is the literal, infallible word of God, the number of teens who don't believe in evolution, the number of teens who consider themselves conservatives, etc.

It was a good book, and though it was seriously biased, at least it was biased towards the left :). I highly recommend it; it kept me up alter at night than most novels have, and is more interesting, too.

Maybe I'll try and write a DU book review in the morning.

America is screwed. Atheists/agnostics, non-Christians, liberal Christians, even non-fanatical conservative Christians? We're all screwed.

[StClone]

10. You are correct

Parochial schools have had an increase also. But if they learn what I learned in Catholic school it would be worth it. I am not easily taken in by X-tian dragging crosses after being subjected to Sister Mary Francis.

[Nevernose]

12. I suspect that it's a temporary panacea

A phase, if you will. With many, perhaps most of the born again people I know or have known -- especially young people -- the "conversion" fades after a while.

It's a good book, though. Fascinating and entertaining reading taken from an NPR reporter.

[LiberalFighter]

46. Here in Ft Wayne a week or so ago they had in the paper

that enrollment in parachiol schools was down.

For the sixth straight year, the majority of Catholic and Lutheran schools in and around Fort Wayne have seen their student populations slide. Catholic schools in the area lost 193 students this year, dropping enrollment to 6,612. The majority of the decline was in elementary schools, which lost 172 students since last year. Only three Catholic elementary schools - Most Precious Blood, St. Joseph-St. Elizabeth Ann Seton and St. Joseph, Monroeville - and Bishop Dwenger High School saw

[immoderate]

69. Most Precious Blood Elementary School? Eww!

--IMM

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. They are basing their assessments

on the research of George Barna. He is a statistian who has made a career out of using demographic data to formulate church growth methods. He maintains his livlihood by changing his focus on the collection of data that he has compiled. His latest news "update" is related to teenagers:

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=246


Basically what we are seeing is religious folks with a bias accepting data prepared by someone who shares their bias. And they all have a motive to perpetuate the bias.

Yeck....

[Nevernose]

19. Sorry, Lost Post

Sorry, a lost post.

[Nevernose]

21. The book seemed legit to me.

But I apparently left the book at work this afternoon, so I can't verify my claims or even the citations. Most of them seemed to originate w/ legititmate sources, but I can't cite any of them. Just being honest.

Until I get the book, though, I'm willing to accept the distinct possibility that I'm arguing from the fallacy of a biased sample (or even just some asshole named Barna spreading lies).

The book, Righteous, seemed to be well researched, though being of a left-wing bias they have a motive (selling books). It seemed pretty solid to me, though. If you're rreally, truly interested, I'l pm you the ref page tomorrow. At the very least, it'll be interesting.

[Coyote_Bandit]

40. Barna uses

very strict definitions. He defiines three groups of Christians - born again Christians, evangelicals, and notational Christians. If you look carefully at his research you will find that he considers that only evangelical Christians have a "Christian worldview." He is a Christian statistician who thinks only some Christians have the right beliefs. Nothing new about that. But this kind of labelling shows his bias. Evangelicals, incidentally, are the only Christian group he identifies as having a majority who belong to the GOP and support Bush.

Barna has made his career researching Christians and churches and advising who to target and how to grow a church. He has written and published many books on the subject. His most recent book, "Revolution" documents the growth in unchurched people - particularly Christians. He has concluded that there is a large and growing number of sincere Christian believers who actively practice their faith and have intentionally chosen to leave the church. If my livlihood as a pastor or church worker were tied to church attendance and voluntary contributions of parishoners I might be quite concerned by some of his findings. But if I were the statistician I might find that such alarming research helps to sell other demographic church growth research. They feed off of each other. And each clearly have their own biases. Yes, it is pathological.

There are few organizations that research these kinds of demographics so his work has been influential. It is not like there is a whole lot of competition. And churches are notorious for choosing to rely upon the work of other Christians even when competitive products and services are available from non-Christian sources.

[krispos42]

33. Kevin Phillips covered this in "American Theocracy"

Very scary. The part about our impending financial collapse was very scary as well. Basically, time to move to China if the government doesn't get it's collective heads out of their collective asses.

[silverweb]

8. Excellent.

The sooner they lose the mass hysteria-induced emotionality and brainwashing, the sooner rationality can be realized.

[patrick t. cakes]

9. left behind

just aint as hip as it once was.:evilgrin:

[JoFerret]

13. Scarey pic

Parents should protect their children from these creepy nutjobs.

[Judi Lynn]

31. You're so right. Those children are being "played." What a dirty shame.

The spooky lighting, the wierd music they would have surging through the place, the overwhelming, relentless emotionalism, the dire claims being made about going to hell for eternity and suffering forever, of losing everyone you know and love, etc., etc., etc. if you don't do what the preacher tells you to do, and get "saved," and modify your behavior to conform to everyone else in the church, etc., etc., etc. is a real wild overdose.

A young person being brought into that madhouse could be simply overwhelmed and scared to death. That's the plan. Control. Permanent control over them, for the rest of their lives.

Someone who has grown up around these people just might grow a little skeptical and cynical as time goes by, and defintely walk away as soon as possible. There's something disrespectful about people who try to step in front of your obligation to think for yourself, and come to your own conclusions at your own pace.

[JoFerret]

36. The parents should be scared

of the Foleyesque Ralph Reed types who are out there to prey on them. Nothing like a repressed religious nut for pure perversion.

[warrens]

14. Having your political stooges IM them...

Offering to fuck them up the ass is, you know, probably a poor strategy, ifn you know what I mean, you stupid frootloops.

[Ecumenist]

15. Hmmm, they're leaving in droves, huh?

Lessee, why could that be, hmmm? Let's explore the MANY possibilities, shall we? Hypocrisy, lies, twisting the Biblical verses to fit whatever tilted agenda they have, selective memory, bigotry, coming down HEAVILY on those who are female for the failings of men and general misogyny,(ie, men lusting after women is due to their tempting them with seductive dress, makeup etc), greed disguised as blessing for God, rules that apply ONLY to the peons, beating people over the head with Bibles for the express point of justifying any awful ans revolting thing the hierarchy says and does, racism, et al,ad finitum... Been there, done that. The kids are waking up to the idea that God IS NOT in the vast majority of these "churches" and never have been. Could that be the reason, hmmm? :shrug:

[daleo]

16. Don't worry, Foley can't get them all

"Evangelicals Fear the Loss of Their Teenagers"

[Scooter24]

18. wanting perfect teeth is a...

negative cultural influence? :shrug:

[TlalocW]

20. If this is true...

Let me offer some advice out of the goodness of my heart to these evangelicals...

Stop using Jesus to preach hatred.

Actually listen to what Jesus said and help the less fortunate.

You are not rich/well-off/whatever because Jesus likes you more.

Stop putting yourselves or putting others into the role of uber-Christians. George Bush is not a good Christian no matter what you feel you need to tell yourself.

Before you decide to take on all us Godless liberals, you might want to clean up your own houses. Studies done by evangelicals show that their own flocks shack up before marriage, divorce, enjoy porn, etc. at the same (or even higher) percentages that non-evangelicals do. Don't tell us to put down the Playboy until you can get your fellow parishioners to do so.

The United States was not founded as a Christian nation. The 10 Commandments do not form the basis of our government's laws. There's nothing in the Constitution about keeping the sabbath holy, not having false idols, not coveting, honoring your parents, etc. Laws against stealing and killing didn't start with the Christian faith.

Quit whining that you're being repressed. You can talk about and practice your faith openly as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's rights. That means you shouldn't be allowed to make the schools indoctrinate everyone else's kids into your faith. That's not repressing your religion so shut the fuck up.

See the weird scary guy in the picture above? Keep him away from your kids. They'll appreciate it. If you act like that weird, scary guy in the picture above, stop it.

TlalocW

[anotherdrew]

22. this was bound to happen, but it's a bit earlier than I expected n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. I grew up in the shadow of this,

I grew up in a pretty conservative part of Orange County and many of my friends families were among the "Crystal Cathedral" set. Even then I never saw much enthusisim among any of them for their parents religion. They were either outwardly hostile to it - or used it as an all purpose get out of jail free card.

"you know daddy, since I have received their lord, I really don't need a curfew anymore."

Lets face it, growing up in Southern California the bible thumpers just didn't have shit to offer when it was a choice between sex, drugs and punk vs. bible study and reagan worshipping.

[Dem2theMax]

24. Run teens, run! Run from the fundies!

Hey, I believe in God and think that Jesus was a great man.
But when you come up with stuff like "Jesus Camp," Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps, what else would anyone expect those teens to do?
RUN I tell ya, RUN!

[Eurobabe]

25. They say this like it's a BAD thing

eom

[aaronbees]

26. Jesus, those girls look scared...

If I were them I'd run out and head to the nearest mosh pit. Much better for 'em. :)

I think Lauren Sadler's comments in the article are intersting and, from what I see in my area, more accurate. Her quote:
“They always say, ‘We take our faith outside the four walls.’ For a lot of young evangelicals, church is a rock festival, or a skate park or hanging out in someone’s basement.”

[symbolman]

27. Someone should do a

"Left Behind" series that shows exactly this, that the kids are walking away from the hypocritical, "fake" Christian propaganda..

Karma is a Bitch, eh?

Now they're pushing Christian "rock" music, like Christ Metal, and as usual, that and Christian Rap is hilarious.. in the end it's really like Lawrence Welk music, where they have to repeat the phrase "Christ" or "Jesus" every 15 seconds or they will go straight to hell..

Frightening, usually aimed at non urban kids who've heard WAY better music than that, the middle america kids who don't have REAL bands coming through are easily punk'd by this fake rock/rap crap..

[Nihil]

32. Hmmm

> Now they're pushing Christian "rock" music, like Christ Metal, and as
> usual, that and Christian Rap is hilarious.. in the end it's really
> like Lawrence Welk music, where they have to repeat the phrase "Christ"
> or "Jesus" every 15 seconds or they will go straight to hell.

I thought there was something in their favourite book about "not taking
the Lord's name in vain" ...?

Oh well, maybe that was just in the early editions ...

[immoderate]

70. I remember when rock music was a blasphemy.

The churches preached against it. But like most things that become popular, the church eventually picks it up and takes credit for it.

--IMM

[Dulcinea]

73. Christ Metal?

That sounds like a curse word: "Holy Christ Metal!"

If I had a hardcore band, I would name it Christ Metal.

Reading all this, it's nothing new. All my friends raised in the South were raised by religious parents & none of them are churchgoers now. My parents are Catholic, & they sent me to church, CCD (religion class for Catholic kids), & made sure I got the sacraments, but as a teenager I figured out the Catholic Church's social agenda, & that was it for me & Catholicism. I can't remember one thing I learned in CCD, either. I regarded it as a colossal waste of time even when I was little.

Anyway, fundamentalism requires the kind of blind faith I lack, & that seems to be true of a lot of others too. If religion is forced on someone as a child, are they going to continue with it when they're old enough to decide for themselves?

[sakabatou]

28. "We must need sheeple!"

[Chovexani]

30. I used to be a born again Koolaid drinker

Then I took the red pill around age 14 because I couldn't deal with the woman hating, Earth hating politics they tried to drill into me in youth group. I got kicked out for asking too many questions.

Been Pagan for 10 years since. :hi:

[krispos42]

34. My heart bleeds...

Oh, wait, that's a pimple. Never mind!

[mitchum]

35. Evangelical$ worried about future ca$h in their coffer$...

but they shouldn't worry...there's a sucker born again every minute

[zbdent]

37. A thought on the T-shirts worn by the girls in the pic - does that say

"plug in to me?" Do the boys have the "plug" to go into the outlet?

Just a thought ...

I find it subtly perverted (but then, I am a perv ... card-carrying ...)

[pinerow]

38. if they're afraid of losing them, they should implant chips

in them :sarcasm:

[LibertyLover]

39. Another reader of "Righteous"

here. A truly scary book. I'm hoping that this NYT article is correct after just finishing that book. The chapter on the right-wing Evangelicals in the military was very frightening. No wonder America is in deep trouble around the world. My family and I are going to England and Scotland at Christmas time (oops, Note to self - must remember the liberal war on Christmas and use some other phrase next time.)and I'm thinking of making a button that reads something to the effect of 'Bush's policies - not in my name'.

[LostinVA]

75. Really scary book, isn't it?

[HughBeaumont]

42. Uh.

WHACK. JOBS.

Yeah, who WOULDN'T want to stay in that fear fortress? Say YES to living under a coal black cloud of Crapture.

I'd feel less creeped out at the Church of Satan. Seriously.

[LiberalFighter]

43. They got a mag for teen pastors? Geesh

I bet that magazine tells them how to relate to teens and/or control them.

[Tyo]

50. "...teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves."

God works in mysterious and wonderful ways.

[GeorgeGist]

51. Why can't you see...

the joy of Christianity on their faces?

[CountAllVotes]

52. good for them - they are waking up to reality

They have minds/brains of their own. A lot of this "Christian" crap doesn't hold any water especially when look at the activities of those behind these Christian "cults" as I call them.

I have no problem with Christianity per se, but these "crying Christians" etc. make me sick and I'm thinking the young people are just as sickened by it as I am.

:dem: :kick:

[damntexdem]

53. If true, it's the best news about religion I've heard for some time.

Although four percent of minds is still a terrible thing to waste.

[Rambis]

54. Thank God!

the sooner we get rid of the religious wackos in this country the better.

[TrogL]

56. If kids are so happy in Jesus, why is everybody in the picture crying?

except for the guy screaming into the microphone?

[LibDemAlways]

57. Teens are rebellious. These fundies don't know that?

I would imagine being dragged to a service where some nutcase is weeping and wailing would be enough to send most teens fleeing.

[stepnw1f]

58. Can You Say: "Mass Hypnosis"

That to me is psycological abuse.... but then again, most are willing falling for it.

[Megahurtz]

59. The Teenagers are learning how Looney

these people really are.:crazy: Good for them, I hope it's a trend!

May the Truth set them free!O8)

[dback]

62. Send 'em to Jesus Camp!

Isn't that the solution? Make 'em fearful, self-righteous, warriors for God?

[progressivebydesign]

63. Run for your lives, kids! Mass hysteria = brainwashing.

My adult stepdaughter attended a weekend camp for evangelical teens a few years ago, as a teen. She was invited by friends and wasn't sure what it was. It had a cool name, and fun activities... but.. at night, the teens would gather in a tent and they'd blare super loud christian rock music and have speakers who were yelling and crying, and all the teens were crying and flailing around. My SD said that she was totally overcome and taken in with it at that moment, she was crying and acting out along with everyone else. She is an agnostic. The next day, when she had distance from it, she knew that she was taken in by the mass hysteria (like kids at the Beatles concerts in the 60's).

I attended a Hari Krishna temple during a school trip about cultures, in the early 70s. And, with the smells in there, and the chanting, and the movement, you totally got caught up in that. It's mass hysteria.

The evangelicals should be worried about their teens.. because most of them see that brainwashing for what it is, and make up their own minds. It's reprehensible to see how adults are using these kids... and how many public schools and organizations allow it on their property.

[progressivebydesign]

64. One more thing... my town has one of those churches..

And they try to market themselves as a city of it's own, pretty much. The lives of the 4,000+ members revolve around it. So, they get donations from some heavy hitters in town, and build a 10 MILLION dollar youth building (yes, 10 million dollars!). But the problem is.. that the kids are leaving the fold in droves. When my SD first got to this school district 3 years ago, the kids were WAY into the church and that creepy Young Life stuff. Now that the kids are in high school, they've moved on, or they treat YL as a social network, and drink and have sex on the side. I think that churches are effective in brainwashing jr. high kids, but high school kids are moving on. And the funniest thing is that this mega church has a friday night thing for jr. and high school kids.. and I've heard from the kids that it's a great place to score drugs and alcohol in the parking lot.

[madrchsod]

66. well i went to church every sunday and sang in the choir

untill i was in high school then i`ve never been back yet i`m ok...well that`s up for debate. if a child gets a decent upbringing in the church those values will be with them all their lives. i know that`s a simple answer to a complex set of issues that go along with discussing religion in it`s many forms but it`s 61 and the sun is shining so i`m off to enjoy the rest of the day!!

[Lexingtonian]

67. and...Modernity wins!

The Kids Are Alright. It's the parents who are the wackjobs, of course.

[Initech]

68. Teen Mania?

:rofl:

To quote Homer Simpson - "Good things dont end in 'eum! They end in 'mania or 'eria!"

[PurityOfEssence]

71. Evangelicals fear, period.

People who demand to be treated as special hate pluralism.

Somehow, they're superior and if they're not treated like gods, it's some kind of discrimination.

[NMMNG]

72. Hatred and repression can only go so far

Teens aren't as dumb as some make them out to be.

[LostinVA]

74. An email from a local Pagan leader about this article

I sent it to him, because I know he grew up Evangelical. He's now a very well-respected local Pagan leader, who does alot of stuff for local environmental causes. I thought some might find it interesting:

"Sounds a bit to me like one of those questionable "most persecuted
religion" statistics. For example, if their child started attending a
Methodist church I suppose that means they are now "lost". Evangelicals
always try to make everything seem dire so that they have a reason to
mobilize people. I've heard younger people within the evangelical
movement basically admit they hold out salvation like a carrot but never
actually give it to you. In the end, no one is ever "Christian" enough
for them, because if they were then they wouldn't be needed any longer.

That said, I suspect their youth do tend to temporarily stray, and a
significant number then go on to other things. For most, their
"rebellion" consists of seeking the opposite of what they were taught.
So... They do drugs, have sex and buy lots of trendy clothes. Not
surprisingly, they eventually find that more empty than the faith they
left and they return. Controlled rebellion is actually part of the
program. Hopefully, where groups like ours can be helpful is in
providing a meaningful alternative to that cycle. It isn't an either/or
that one is either a Christian or a materialistic hedonist*, but that's
what they teach the kids in these places."