Saudi Arabia rejects calling Muslims "fascists"

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14265703.htm

Saudi Arabia rejects calling Muslims "fascists"

RIYADH, Aug 14 (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia on Monday rejected linking Muslims with fascism, days after U.S. President George W. Bush spoke of a "war with Islamic fascists".

"(Saudi Arabia) warns of accusing Muslims of terrorism and fascism without considering the history of the pure Islamic civilisation," the cabinet of the major U.S. ally said in a statement after a meeting chaired by King Abdullah.

...

The Saudi cabinet statement said: "What Islam is being charged with today, such as fascism, is primarily the result of Western cultural heritage.

"Terrorism has no religion and no nationality," said the statement, carried by state media. It made no direct reference to Bush or to the United States.

[IChing]

1. Welcome to Neo-Fascism 101'

1. Economic fascism is based a merger of big business and big government. Sometimes, a formal corporatism emerges; other times, the private sector (monopolies and oligopolies) simply pass over into the public sector (as in the US), capturing the state and using it to wage that most profitable of activities: war. This later scenario is what happened in the United States, and the incestuous relationship between Big Business and Big Government ushered in a new Gilded Age of cronyism and corruption. Benito Mussolini was clear: "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
>>>>snip
For the Middle East, the preconditions of mature capitalism (and thus fascism) simply do not exist.
Islamic fundamentalist groups compete at the national level, but Islamic fundamentalism is a transnational movement inherently opposed to the pseudo-nationalism necessary for fascism.


Middle Eastern and Islamic movements can be reactionary, but these are reactions to external powers and not to the core dimensions of their own societies, which remain traditional.
>>>>snip

So the economic, political and cultural prerequisites of fascism do not exist in the Middle East - but they do exist in the United States. Our post-WWII, Information Age neo-fascism is much like the inter-war classical fascism but softer, lighter, friendlier. Today, instead of marching, we ritually demonstrate our political will on touch-screen pads, a ceremony organized by Party-backed corporations with secret software on private servers.

article here:
http://www.virtualcitizens.com/bosworth_2006-08-14_neo_fascism.html

[RethugAssKicker]

2. STFU... and obey your NeoCon Masters !

[Taoschick]

3. Mr Dictionary says....

A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

While that does not describe Muslims in general, it does describe the goals of certain fundamentalist Muslims, including many in the KSA.

[endarkenment]

8. Get a new dictionary.

A key quality of fascism is the merging of statist and corporatist interests. It also requires advanced capitalism. You just can't leave the economic part out.

[Taoschick]

9. so

What do you call a country that adheres to the tenets of fascism but doesn't fit the contemporary definition of corporatism?

[IChing]

15. I don't know maybe

Amerka? :rofl: :rofl: :popcorn:

come back when you get your knowledge from more than a dictionary.
Did you bother to read the link in my first post?
Or google 14 signs of fascism, neo-fascism, and then link your knowledge in your response
here is a start.
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html

[Taoschick]

26. Most

Of my knowledge of Saudi comes from having lived there for 6 years.

Corporatism, by the way, doesn't necessarily mean "rule by corporation". The Saudi clerics are a good example of a corporate.

[IChing]

29. There are 15,000 princes in Saudia Arabia hardly discribe fascism

Is it Saudia Arabia a totalitarian country? Yes.
Is it a theocracy? Yes
Is it a monarchy? yes

Was Stalin's Russia totalitarian? Yes

Are either of these countries I describe Fascist?
No

[Taoschick]

31. How many apply?

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.
5. Rampant sexism.
6. A controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together.
9. Power of corporations protected.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.


From Lawrence W. Britt's Fascism Anyone?
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=britt_23_2

Looks like a pretty good fit.

[IChing]

33. One, four, and nine and 14 are almost non existant.

1.Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism:

It is called Saudi Arabia a kingdom and ruled by a royal family of 15,000 Saudi princes. Nationalism is not prevalent or relevant
Mass rallies for the glory of the the kingdom of Saudi Arabia? No, I don't think so




4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism:

There is no military tradition in Saudi Arabia and little commitment to the concept of the nation state. As fiercely independent individuals who survived on the desert for centuries with nothing but their own wits and fortitude, the Saudis are not about to submit to the discipline of the army. Family and tribe remain the center of any Saudi’s existence, and for this reason it is difficult to keep the military recruits the country does have at their posts.

9. Power of corporations protected

Business and government are controlled by the royal family, this is not the same as "corporations" that are family owned
for example:
Lineup of Aging Monarchs
Succession does not seem a major concern to most Saudis, but some worry about the kingdom's lineup of aging monarchs at the very moment it needs energetic, worldly leaders. King Abdel Aziz established the system of inheritance according to age and family consensus in the hope of avoiding fratricide. The one rule is that any king must be his direct descendant. King Fahd is the fourth son to hold the throne since King Abdel Aziz died in 1953. More than 20 other sons survive from among his 22 marriages.

There is no doubt that the proliferation of princes grates among the professional classes.

A waiter glides up to a senior government official settling onto a couch in a hotel lobby to tell him that it is permanently reserved for a local prince. "Another prince?" the official snapped, before regaining his composure. "Please don't quote me on that," he said to a reporter.

But to some the unhurried system of succession is delaying decisions by senior princes who worry that one mistake might hurt their standing. In addition, they sometimes appear to be creating personal fiefdoms with an interlocking network of personal loyalties.
Prince Abdullah used to run the national guard, a job now held by one of his sons. The defense minister, Prince Sultan, made one son, Prince Khalid former commander of the Persian Gulf war forces his deputy. The same holds true for Prince Nayef, the interior minister, who at 65 is considered third or fourth in line.

14. Fraudulent elections.
It is a kingdom where power is pass to a family member


So no it is not Fascist, but definitely bad news


Now explain to me why Stalin's Russia was never never considered to be fascist even though it shares some of the signs of fascism?

[LynnTheDem]

20. America.

[endarkenment]

25. I disagree that Saudi Arabia adheres to the tenets of fascism.

It is a deeply conservative heriditary regime that rules by kinship relationships rather than corporate forms of organization. Everything is family in Saudi Arabia. That is not the form of fascism.

[Taoschick]

27. Actually

Everything is not family in the KSA. There are several competing interests.

[guruoo]

30. 'Corporatist' doctrine is the very basis for for what you refer to as...

the 'tenants of fascism'.

[Odin2005]

16. The problem is that textbooks leave out the corporate part of fascism.

The average american rarely learns about the corporate side of fascism because it would put our corporatist masters in a bad light, and thus contradict the Neo-Liberal BS shoved down student's throats in civics and history classes.

[Trajan]

21. One could make a strong argument ....

That Saudi Arabia is itself 'fascist', in that it is controlled by a singular ruling cadre, IE The House of Saud, who rule their land with an Iron Fist, using its power over the police state, disallowing and crushing dissent, forging vast economic fortunes based on familial, clannic, and tribal ties .....

Aramco is about as overwhelmingly huge as a Corporation can get .... and one can find the American NeoFascists, ALA the BFEE, their predecessors and their ilk, intertwined within their dealings and transactions for decades ....

One party rule is one party rule ..... Monarchism suffices as a fascist vehicle as well as any other one party state ....

[endarkenment]

24. But it is really more of a classic monarchy.

Saudi Arabia hasn't advanced far enough to qualify for fascist. They are still in the developmental stage that western european states were in around 1600-1850 or so. Of course they have all the trappings of modern technology to enforce their heriditary despotism, and they are in the midst of industrializing, but they have all the baggage of heriditary regimes dragging around as well. Fascism and kinship forms of control are quite different. Fascism perhaps requires the modern atomized alienated individual, our modern human connected more to his tv than to his relatives, in order to spread corporatism throughout society.

[guruoo]

28. Totalitarian capitalism is the heart and soul of facisism....

Therefore, by definition, you can't have one without the other.

[Igel]

4. "The pure Islamic civilization"!

:rofl:

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. I'm just thankful he didn't say holy crusade against..........

muslim fascist. I'm sure it was probably in there.

[dbackjon]

6. No more kisses from Prince Bandar for you

Dubya....

[mom cat]

11. Saudi Arabia has already promiced Lebanon one and a half billion dollars

in aid for reconstruction. I think they are quite miffed at Bush right about noe. Wonder how this will play out in the Caryle Group?

[Strelnikov_]

7. Oh Oh. Somebody Pissed Their Patron Off n/t

[mitchum]

10. Some uncomfortable silences at the next bush family gathering

[amandabeech]

17. Poppy must be having a stroke.

Somebody check the ER in Kennebunkport.

I wonder if Poppy is hoping to live long enough to help clean up Junior's mess.

Are Baker and Scowcroft en route to Riyadh?

[unschooler]

12. the "pure" Islamic civilization?

When ya starting talkin' about "pure" civilizations, I start to worry.

[Kitsune]

13. How messed up is the world that I'm agreeing with the Saudis?

I mean, they're absolutely right. Fascism is a Western idea, and terrorism is a methodology embraced by minorities from all cultures who percieve themselves as both powerless and persecuted (regardless of whether that perception is true or not).

But it's still really messed up that I'm agreeing with anything Saudi Arabia has to say.

[Joanne98]

14. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

[ShockediSay]

18. "Muslim fasicsts," a label as bad as "Zionista fascists"

and you be the judge

[Disturbed]

19. Saudi Arabia is a Theocratic Dictatorship.

The label "Fascist" was cooked up by some Busholini Regime Spin Doc to deflect what the Busholini Regime is.

[Trajan]

22. When Bush used the term "Islamic Fascist" ...

he was attempting to mimic his buddies in the AEI\PNAC/AIPAC Neocon sphere, who LOVE to toss around the phrase "Islamofascist", which incidently is a word THEY themselves coined .... Pipes, Wurmser, Gaffney, Adelman, Hell: even the US Ambassador to The United Nations loved the phrase ....

Most of the 'worst' Islamic perpetrators of 'Terror' are freelancers or are loosely associated with other like-minded wannabe thugs who praise violence as much as Bush and Sharon do (did) ....

Assholes ? .... you bet ..... Murderers and amoral thugs ? .. absolutely ....

Islamic ? ... without a doubt ....

Fascist ? ..... Hmmmmm ... no more than any other theocrat .... They dont accept Corporate power, per se, but they DO accept theological power of the state over individuals, which can be just as devastating to personal freedom and free-thought ....

Bush simply bungled the phrase, as per usual .... He hacked it in front of the camera once again ....

[Igel]

23. How about fascist Muslims?

That work any better?

Doesn't mean the same thing, however. It's horrible when one language is interpreted as the relexified/regrammaticalized version of another language. No real communication, just deep, but factless, introspection about another's meaning and motives.

[fujiyama]

32. Most Muslims aren't fascists

but the government of Saudi Arabia is pretty damn close...
.

[elliswyatt]

34. Saudi Arabia is just as bad

if not worse, than Iran. And we think Iran is all big and evil. They all are.

All the neo-cons need to do is give them better prostitutes when the sons of bitches invade Vegas again. That's sure to get them to say what we want again.