Are Americans Finally Ready to Get Smart (cars)? 2008 American intro set

[DeepModem Mom]

NYT: Are Americans Finally Ready to Get Smart?
By MARK LANDLER
Published: June 27, 2006


(Christophe Ruckstuhl/Keystone, via Associated Press)
Despite its hip image in big European cities, the Smart division of Daimler has lost an estimated $3.6 billion since it opened in 1998.

....DaimlerChrysler, which shelved an earlier plan to bring its Smart mini-car brand to the United States, plans to announce on Wednesday that it will introduce the tiny, two-seat vehicle to the American market early in 2008, according to several executives at the company.

The German-American carmaker is calculating that with stubbornly high gasoline prices, mounting concerns about global warming, and waning interest in sport-utility vehicles, consumers in the United States will welcome a car that is no larger than a good-sized riding mower.

"Now is the right time to go to the U.S.," said a senior executive at DaimlerChrysler, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the plans were not yet public. "The world, and the U.S., has changed in the last two years."

The Smart car has won a hip image in European cities like Rome and Paris, with their serpentine streets and snug parking spaces. It was recently featured in the film "The Da Vinci Code," as well as in the remake of "The Pink Panther," in which it served as the ride of choice for Inspector Jacques Clouseau.

But DaimlerChrysler's management of Smart has been almost as hapless as the fictional French policeman's driving habits. Since the first car rolled off the assembly line in 1998, Smart has lost $3.6 billion, according to analysts. Efforts to expand beyond the two-seat model, known as the Fortwo, have misfired — sometimes undermining Smart's image as a new-age city car in the process....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/27/automobiles/27cnd-smart.html?ex=1151640000&en=a41d072c3abc577a&ei=5087%0A

[AndyTiedye]

1. Prius and Insight Get Better Mileage

and while I'd fit into a Smart Car just fine, a lot of Americans wouldn't.

[greenman3610]

2. its time may have come and gone

lots more cars will be getting hi
mileage by 2008.
Prius is said to be aiming for 96 mpg
by then.

[SOS]

7. Interesting point on Friedman's show on Discovery

The Prius is capable of 500 miles per gallon of gas now.
There is a button on the dashboard that is unlabeled. It allows the car to run on electric if plugged in overnight.
Toyota felt that Americans wouldn't buy a car which required plug in, so they removed the E/V marking on the button for US consumers only.
If you plug in the Prius and fuel it with E85, the car will get 500 mpg of gasoline.
And that's available today!

If Discovery reruns Friedman's show, check it out. It was quite interesting.

[Dissenting_Prole]

12. Where does electricity come from?

You can't say a car gets 500 miles per gallon if you are subsidizing that with electricity. Electricity isn't free. Where does electricity come from?

Natural gas - which has peaked in extraction in North America
Coal - yeah, we really need to burn more of that stuff
Solar and wind - won't get you very far

And as far as ethanol is concerned, there isn't enough land to grow enough ethanol to meet our current needs. Corn is food. Would you rather eat or drive?

[megatherium]

15. Two issues to consider:

First, electric vehicles are more efficient that gas vehicles, so the amount of fossil fuel per mile is lower when the vehicle is powered by electicity.

Second, electricity is produced from domestic sources of energy. (One source of electricity you neglect to mention: nuclear, which provides 20% of our electricity.) So even if electric vehicles were a wash as far as greenhouse emissions go, they would still be compelling because they would help reduce our reliance on petroleum, which is imported from hostile places and which is certain to become scarcer and more expensive.

[Dissenting_Prole]

16. Thanks for the lesson on energy.

Well, now this becomes a debate over the viabibility of nuclear energy. First of all, North Americans will not be able to afford to build the number of nuclear power plants that will be required to runs it's vehicles (and air-conditioning, street lights and Home Depots) on electricity. The plants will never be built before the effects of peak oil kick in, and the economy collapses anyway. And bottom line, who is going to be responsible for looking after the waste for even 500 years, much less 5000 years?

By the way, uranium is not a infinite resource either.

Face it now, the party really is over.

(edited for typo - infinite / finite)

[w4rma]

19. Uranium is not an infinite resource. It is a finite resource. (nt)

[Dissenting_Prole]

21. Typo...thanks for correcting me. n/t

[megatherium]

23. I was very interested in nuclear power, after reading web sites

by nuclear engineering professors. They have interesting answers to the various problems of nuclear. The limited fuel supply would be met by building breeder reactors; they claim that we would have enough fuel for tens of thousands of years it this were done. They claim the waste problem can be dealt with by reprocessing fuel. Of course, nuclear opponents have rejoinders to each of these claims.

I think solar might be the dark horse here. The main problem with solar is that it is more expensive than other sources of electricity. Maybe twice as expensive (solar thermal) or five times (photovoltaic). That I suppose is the bottom line for our civilization: we can have all the energy we want but at a higher cost. And the cost of solar will gradually drop as it scales up in production. If we have time.

[krispos42]

48. Nuclear fusion

If we had taken the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted on a war with Iraq and funded a crash cold-fusion project, we could probably be building viable generating plants in a decade that turns hydrogen into helium and energy. No radioactive isotopes, no toxic waste, no dangerous fuels.

With plenty of ultra-cheap electricity, we could turn our homes fossile-fuel-free. Electric heat, electric water heater, electric ranges.

Our electric cars could be plug-ins with an auxillary 15-horsepower air-cooled engine (near-zero emissions, of course) tied to a 230-volt alternator so that we could charge our cars on long trips, while shopping, or sleeping in a roadside motel. There would be a switch for that on the dash. One position for local driving, which would turn the auxillary on only when the battery charge got low, and one position for long-range driving, which would turn on the auxillary immediately and try to keep the battery fully charged.

Eventually we could replace the electric-with-auxillary car with a fuel-cell car because once we replaced all of our fossile-fueled appliances and automobiles we could use the cheap nuclear fusion power to perform electrolysis on water to get the hydrogen that we would need.

[ryanmuegge]

44. Yep, let's just throw up our hands and die.

There's nothing that can be done. The party's over. We're all going to die!


I realize this is the biggest issue of our time, but all of this fatalism is really irritating.

[AndyTiedye]

18. Let Us Not forget Hydroelectric

Also, hybrids will get better mileage with better batteries, even without
external electric charging, because they will be able to utilize regenerative
braking to a greater extent. Lithium Polymer batteries are lighter and hold
more of a charge than the NiMH currently in use.

The Prius is not a small car, yet it beats the Honda Civic Hybrid on MPG
and comes pretty close to the tiny Insight. What kind of mileage would
an Insight get if it had even second-generation hybrid technology like the
Prius?

[Dissenting_Prole]

20. Forget hydro-electric

Most of the large-scale hydro-electric potential in North America has been exploited. You're not going to run 200 million vehicles on it.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

30. but small scale would help

approximately 35% of the small dams already in existence could be converted to generate electricity... each enough for a small town. Every bit helps.

[Dissenting_Prole]

32. Every bit helps.

Although it doesn't help LA too much.

[SOS]

22. True

But Friedman was concentrating on the geopolitics of oil in the segment on gasoline usage, rather than climate change.
He went into future sources later in the show.
His point in the segment on the Prius was to show how we can stop importing oil now, not ten years from now. He then suggests a huge investment in clean sustainable energy.

Brazil would like to export millions of barrels of ethanol now, but Congress was sufficiently bribed (oops sorry, I meant to say "received enough campaign contributions") to slap a 100% import duty on Brazilian ethanol to give unfair advantage to US Republican agribusinesses. Of course since Exxon pays off too, there is no import duty on petroleum.

Germany now produces 6% of it's electricity from wind mills. Nuclear provides 20% of our electricity. CNG can run city buses and government vehicles. Hydrogen buses are already running in Vancouver.
Brazil is 50/50 gas/ethanol.

And most importantly of all - conservation. Let's do what we can now, first to rid ourselevs of imported oil and simultaneously work toward clean renewable energy.

Of course none of this will ever happen since Big Oil is the owner and operator of the US government.

[Dissenting_Prole]

34. Yes, it's all big oil's fault.

> Of course none of this will ever happen since Big Oil is the owner and operator of the US government.

Yes, it's all big oil's fault.

Vote with your wallets, people. No one puts a gun to your head and says you have to buy a vehicle that gets 20 mpg. No one forces you to live 40 miles from where you work. No one says you can't bike to work a couple days a week if you find gas too expensive. We and our attitudes are our own worst enemies.

> Hydrogen buses are already running in Vancouver.

By the way, I'm not sure what your point is about hydrogen buses. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it's more like a battery. As far as Energy Return On Energy Invested, you're better off to burn natural gas in the bus than converting it to hydrogen.

> Brazil is 50/50 gas/ethanol.

Yeah, but they don't have 200 million vehicles there. Also, much of their sugar cane is harvested manually, not by machines that use expensive fossil fuels.

> And most importantly of all - conservation.

By far our best option for the shor term. If everyone drove a Prius we could buy ourselves some time, but sooner or later we are going to have to deal with the idea that it's no longer business as usual.

[LostinVA]

39. Sometimes economic circumstances do force you to live

20, 30, 40, 50 miles away from your work.

[SOS]

43. Not quite sure

why you are picking apart everything I post.

I don't even own a car. I bicycle to work.

What do you suggest for the future?

[Bassic]

51. You can buy it from us in Québec

We got loads of Hydro-Electric dams :D

[Skink]

26. By removing the E/V button Toyota fooled the big three.

I haven't seen the whole of "who killed the electric car" but the Prius must have been a stealth move by Toyota.
Toyota must figure the car will last 20 years anyway so who cares if someone figures out how to get 500 mph out of it.

[Dissenting_Prole]

8. Hey, I'm 5'11" and I fit in mine just fine...

with room to spare.

[Dissenting_Prole]

10. Oh, by the way...

the Prius and Insight aren't nearly as economical, especially when you include the cost of maintaining batteries. You need to consider the costs of operating the vehicle over it's lifetime in order to make a valid comparison.

[Paulie]

13. There is no maintance on the batteries

They will outlast the car. Toyota hasn't had to replace the battery modules because of the batteries themselves, but they have because of a failure of the charging system.

The Prius has been around for almost 10 years, and there is almost a million made. If it was truly a problem, we would know by now.

I love the Smart, but they are too "little" too late. :-)

[HuffleClaw]

3. HOW can they possibly be losing money?

they can't make them fast enough for canadian consumers. i don't know about elsewhere but here you have to wait a while to get one.

[MADem]

4. It's not just the gas, it's the city parking

You can fit two of those things in one space on a city street. Good commuter car for someone who will not or cannot carpool. It's certainly a niche market, but hey...

They might do better with the four seater version that they've put on the back burner, for running the kids to school and whatnot.

[info being]

35. Yes but american parking is different

In europe, you park where you can. In the US, you park where the big lines are!

[MADem]

37. Not in the city

Check out Boston and immediate suburbs in winter. People save "their" space on the road in front of their house with kitchen chairs, sawhorses, crime scene tape, you name it. And WOE to anyone who takes their space!!!!!

...Parking in Boston is at a premium. During a snowstorm, you will often see an empty space with a chair or some other object sitting there. This is our way of saving a space that we spent hours in the cold shoveling. To park here is about the most dangerous thing your car can do, and there is a 100% chance your car will not be the same as when you left it there.

...If you're looking for a parking space in the wintertime, especially if it has recently snowed, be careful. Residents who shovel the snow out of a parking spot on the street will, for the rest of the winter (and sometimes into spring), view that parking spot as belonging exclusively to them. When their car is not in that spot, they will "reserve" the space by leaving a chair or a trash can or anything else they have on hand in it. If you should remove this debris and park your car there, you may find scratches, broken windows, or some other damage to your car when you return. Be careful!!! Don't think too badly of the Bostonian for this lapse in friendliness. There is so little parking around town - and the snow makes it that much harder to get a decent spot. I've spent hours shoveling snow & chipping ice out of a spot. And when somebody else "steals" your spot, it forces you to "steal" your neighbor's spot. Winter's nasty enough without this inconvenience!



http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/North_America/United_States_of_America/Massachusetts/Boston-794476/Local_Customs-Boston-Parking_Etiquette-BR-1.html

[arachide]

5. I'd love to drive a Smart Car

but I'm reluctant to become some SUV's hood ornament in the event of an accident - the relative fragility of the Smart is just terrifying.

[LeftHander]

6. that post is disinformation...Smart has a three of five star rating

The steel cage surrounds the passenger compartment and in a side impact the axle is likely hit taking much of the energy....

This post needlesly promotes fear...the big reason SUVs sold. "Keep me safe! Protect me from my own bad driving!"

[MADem]

38. And doesn't it also have max airbags along with the steel cage? NT

[Dissenting_Prole]

11. That's just not true

According to Mercedes, The Smart is the only car in Canada to pass an angle crash-test at 80 kph. So if anyone would prefer to drive a big-ass vehicle just so they can feel safer, then they should go ahead and send their friends and relatives to Iraq to secure the fuel to keep it on the road.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. If I ever consider buying a car again.... this could be it.

Thanks for the safety info, that was one of my concerns.

The only one I have now, is seeing around the road hogging SUV's. I hate that they block the whole view in front of you, even in a regular size car. No way to see what's coming up ahead :mad:

[Thor_MN]

42. vehicles should be required to have X inches of between Y and Z inches

off the ground. It would make all frontal and rear collisions bumper to bumper rather than the small vehicle diving under the big ass SUV or semi. How hard would that be? Maybe make for some uglier vehicles, but ultimately safer...

[oostevo]

46. Not just lack of mass

The handling is apparently pretty poor too.

I want to like the smart, I really do, but it seems like a pretty good concept that's executed very, very badly.

Case in point: a popular British motoring television show voted this model of the Smart the worst handling car in production today. Having had a chance to see how the car stood up to their handling test, yeah, I'm pretty glad I've got a bicycle.

[tammywammy]

9. I love the Smart

I drive a VW Beetle right now. There's never anyone in the back seat, so I can afford to give it up.

If I had been able to get a Smart last October, I would have.

[alarimer]

14. Looks like death on wheels to me

It doesn't matter what the crash tests say, I don't think I would like to be in one of these when I get hit by a semi or by a 6000 pound SUV. Also, when one of these cars made an appearance in the Davinci Code movie, everyone in the theater laughed at the car. So I doubt seriously these would go over well here. It doesn't sound like they are doing well in Europe either (3.6 billion loss). Probably only those who live in dense urban areas could use them. I would never, ever consider it, not with the highway driving I have to do (and the stuff I have to haul). I don't need an SUV

[Dissenting_Prole]

17. Every car is potentially death on wheels

> It doesn't matter what the crash tests say, I don't think I would like to be in one of these when I get hit by a semi or by a 6000 pound SUV.

Dude, if you get hit by a semi or a 6000 pound SUV, see you later, 'cause you are going to intensive care no matter what you are driving. You've been conned by automakers into thinking that you're safer in a large vehicle. So now you need an even LARGER vehicle to protect you from the 6000 pound SUV.

> Also, when one of these cars made an appearance in the Davinci Code movie, everyone in the theater laughed at the car.

then they can laugh when their children die in Iraq, Venezuela or Iran. As I said before, get ready to sacrifice your friends and relatives to resource wars, because that's what will be necessary to keep things running the way they are now.

Everyone laughs at my Smart. Then they give me thumbs up. It's hard not to feel like laughing when you see that little car.

> So I doubt seriously these would go over well here.

Last month I drove through West Virginia in mine and many people asked questions about safety. There wasn't one person that I met who said they wouldn't drive one. Even coal miners I talked to said they would trade their ATV for one - and those guys would rather trade their wife than their ATV.

> It doesn't sound like they are doing well in Europe either (3.6 billion loss).

Maybe they just need better management. Lots of people are drinking Coke but the company still loses money. I had to wait 9 months for my Smart in Canada. They're very popular here. Then again, we pay 4 bucks a gallon for gas.

> I would never, ever consider it, not with the highway driving I have to do (and the stuff I have to haul). I don't need an SUV

I have put 35,000 miles on mine and most of it has been highway driving. I have packed 800 DVDs in it. Nowadays I don't go far from home with it, but I never have a problem finding a parking spot.

[krispos42]

49. Try switching cars in a collision

I drive a 1989 Oldsmobile Regency 98. It does not have airbags. It does have 3600 pounds of Detroit steel. If I was about a have a collision with a Smart car, and God froze time and asked me if I wanted to change places with the driver of the Smart car, I would politely decline.

You see, a Smart car weights about 1800 pounds or so with a driver. My car is about twice that. In a head-on collision at 60 miles per hour, my car slows from 60 to 20, a change of 40 mph. A Smart car slows from 60 to -20 mph, a change of 80 miles per hour.

Ouch. That's a hell of a lot of delta-vee.

The choice is hitting a brick wall in the Olds at 40 or the Smart at 80. I'll take the Olds for $500, Alex!

Incidently, the Smart car must also plow through a cast-iron-block 3800cc V-6 and a 4-speed Hydromatic encased in a 5-foot-long engine compartment to get to me. The Smart... not so much. It looks like there's about three feet between the front bumper and steering wheel, and nothing mechanical in the way but the front steering and suspension.

I'm sure the Smart car is safe for its weight, (much more so than, say, a Geo Metro) but that's a hell of an caveat when you're competing in big-car-and-truck America.

My car gets about 24 mpg and is paid for. It is cheaper for me to keep the current car (with less than 160,000 miles on it and running quite well) than buy a new one, because no new car in existance will save me more than about a $100 in gas a month.

To double my gas mileage with a Smart car, I lose room for six, plenty of legroom and headroom, cushy seats, a big roomy trunk, decent acceleration and passing power, 3(!) cigarette lighters, and, apparently, air-conditioning. Well, it's an option.

This is why fuel-sipping cars are so slow to catch on here. A person loses a lot for a small increase in gas mileage.

I predict that the cars in America will get smaller with times as gas prices go up, but few will want to take the leap from huge to tiny. It will be a gradual process over a decade or two.

[arenean]

47. Perfectly safe

Bit of misinformation here. The Smart Car holds up very well in terms of safety (4 out of 5 stars in the Euro NCAP tests), and the Tridion safety cell acts as a mass damper

http://www.smartnewzealand.co.nz/safety_construction.asp

They ARE doing very well in Europe actually, the money loss is not down to the number of cars they're selling. In London, it's the only car that's exempt from the Central London Congestion Charge (£8/ day), which has also increased their popularity.

Also, if you're not a family, how much space do you need? I see TV commercials for SUV's, and it seems that a selling point for these monsters, is that you take the entire contents of your house with you when you go out on the road. Well, I don't know about you, but when I commute to work each day, the only thing I put on the seat next to me is a newspaper.

However, if you want something with more seats, maybe the Toyota Aygo is the best bet (68 mgp in UK gallons, so even more in US gallons). I'm not sure if Toyota will introduce a small car to the US however - even the Yaris looks bigger and is more thirsty than its European counterpart.

[AnneD]

24. I saw them in Paris

when I was there 5 yrs ago. They are perfect for most European cities that were built for pedestrians and horse carts but fankly, they look like circus clown cars-and would be very anemic in most American cities-except NYC perhaps. You can get 2 adults and maybe 2 bags of groceries in them if you are lucky. They really won't fit in most American family lifestyles. I see them as big in India and China, but not here. Hybrids have the best chance here.

[Strelnikov_]

25. The 'Smart'er Thing Would Be EV

They are entering an ever more crowded market for fuel efficient IC vehicles. An EV variant would open up a new market.

Take the form factor of the Smart, install an electric powerplant.

I mean, if hobbyists are converting Geo Metros to EV's with a 60 mi. range . . .

Develop a 'power pack' trailer add-on with a small IC engine for extending range (future application for a fuel cell) for those who wish for more than a commuter car.

And do we really need 63 bhp and 85 mph and a turbo? In a few years, most people are going to be happy to have the fuel to drive from point A to B at any reasonable speed, in anything. The 20 mi. commute at 45 mph is still a hell of a lot better than 8 mph on a bicycle, in winter, in a sleet storm, with a head cold.

[dancing kali]

27. I love my Smart Car.

It has a 15 litre gas tank and I get almost 350 km with that. My (well maintained) Ford Ranger pickup (1989) has a 54 litre tank and gets slightly less mileage per tank. I pay something like $13.00 for a tank of gas for the Smart Car. I must say, it is very satisfying to pull up to the pump, fill my tank for less than $20.00 and pull away while the person with the Hummer is standing there with the little bell dinging it's way up to $100.00.

It was very disconcerting when a truck pulled up behind me at a stop light for the first time... but you get used to it.

Nobody laughs at the car anymore. There are enough of them on the streets that they are beginning to seem almost commonplace so there are less giggles and stares. I do still take a bit of ribbing about it. A friend of mine refers to it as either "a Hummer for tree-huggers" or "the Anti-Hummer" and thinks they're pretentious. Another referred to it as "the Wardrobe", and another thinks I should put a ribbon on the front of the roof because she thinks it looks like a "big tap shoe" (I opted for all black instead of doing the two colours).

I had to wait 3 months to get mine last summer... which is three months earlier than expected.

As for hauling stuff... well, I can get 9 bags of groceries in it. If I need to do big bulky stuff at the store, then I take the pickup. I can't haul people around. However, people don't ask me to move things for them all the time now.

For those of you with kids... this car is not for you. It has big stickers on the inside saying so... or at least it is not safe for kids in car seats. It's because of the airbags. Since I don't have kids and don't need the "soccer mom" vehicle, this is not a problem for me.

It's also not the car for you if you like to do the "jack rabbit start"... it's a little sluggish at first when you are pulling out but it goes like the proverbial bat out of hell once it gets going.

It handles like my old Bug. The wheel base is just narrow enough to sit in a bad place in the truck ruts on the highway so you have to correct more often and a good crosswind will blow you around a bit... just like the Bug. Doesn't have the same ground clearance though... I wouldn't consider driving it around on some of the backroads of West Virginia that I drove the VW on. The Smart Car is definitely an urban vehicle.

It's supposed to handle well in the snow, but since I'm on the West Coast... I haven't had the opportunity to test that.

It's not a hybrid - it's diesel only. 6 speed, 3 cylinder engine (located in the back). I'm including that since those are the first things I usually get asked about.

However, no matter how much I like the car... I can't see it ever going over big in the US.

[arwalden]

29. I First Saw Them When Visiting Stuttgart Last Year...

... they were EVERYWHERE! I fell in love with them and I wanted one right away... and I'll definitely be in the market for one by the time they get to the US. (I've heard about folks that have imported them and spend TONS of money having the car retro-fitted so that they comply with US regulations/standards.)

I don't want one THAT bad... but once they are here, we'll most likely have one in our driveway.

[NEOBuckeye]

40. Hummers aren't pretentious?

The H2/H3 is the most ridiculous, overbearing and pretentious, privately-owned and operated vehicle on the road today. What a cool way to play "soldier" while the real soldiers are spilling their blood all over the desert sands of Iraq. :sarcasm:

[dancing kali]

41. Oh, Hummers are pretentious

I certainly didn't mean to imply that they aren't. Smart Car drivers just get to be pretentious about how environmentally conscious we are... kind of the way people got to be pretentious about having the first hybrids. Now that the hybrid cars have made it into the mainstream - the pretension value has dropped. It will be the same with the Smart Car.

[krispos42]

50. Why I love my beater...

You can read about my Oldsmobile in another post I made on this page, but it's amazing how much a battered car driven with some aggression keeps people in pretentious autos at a distance!

[OnionPatch]

28. I don't know about the rest of you but

I'm ready to buy the smallest, most gas-efficient car I can afford. I'd ride a motorcycle if I didn't have to drive my daughter to school. This article didn't mention the mileage. I also wonder about the cost. There are a lot of us out here that simply can't afford a car that has a base price in the $20,000 plus range, no matter how good the mpg is.

[Dissenting_Prole]

31. Cost is about $15,000-19,000US

based on $16,500-20,500CDN.

[KansDem]

36. We need "smart politicians" before we can get "smart cars."

To do otherwise is to "put the cars before the whores."

[Bamboo]

45. Will a big gun keep you safe?

You can visit the SMART website and sign up to get on their mailing list if you can tolerate the shockwave flash download.

http://www.us.smart.isc4u.net/index.php

The site says SMART will be sold through the United Auto Group.

http://www.unitedauto.com