Angry families threaten legal action against police over anti-terror raid

[IndianaGreen]

Angry families threaten legal action against police over anti-terror raid

The Muslim man shot by officers protests his innocence and accuses them of failing to give a warning

Mark Townsend, Anushka Asthana, Antony Barnett and David Smith
Sunday June 4, 2006
The Observer

A young Muslim man shot by police on suspicion of involvement in a terrorist chemical plot last night protested his innocence and alleged that police failed to give warning before opening fire.
Solicitors for Mohammed Abdul Kahar and his brother Abul Koyair, who was also seized in a dawn raid on Friday involving 250 police officers, said they denied any wrongdoing.

A family who live next door to the brothers alleged that they were also arrested and assaulted, leaving one man with a head injury and needing hospital treatment. They are considering legal action against the police.

Kahar was shot in the shoulder during the raid in east London as police reportedly searched for a 'suicide vest' that would pump out poison gas - a claim questioned by MI5 yesterday. As he remained under armed guard in hospital, his solicitor, Kate Roxburgh, described her client's account of the shooting: 'He was woken up about four in the morning by screams from downstairs, got out of bed in his pyjamas obviously unarmed, nothing in his hands and hurrying down the stairs. As he came toward a bend in the stairway, not knowing what was going on downstairs, the police turned the bend up towards him and shot him - and that was without any warning.'

She added: 'He wasn't asked to freeze, given any warning and didn't know the people in his house were police officers until after he was shot. He is lucky still to be alive.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1789965,00.html

[letsgonova19087]

1. Yeah, sure

I don't know...I think I'll side with the UK before I side with the terrorist suspect...

[BiggJawn]

2. The same UK who shot a South American man...

...Because he "looked like a terra-ist"?

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your (short) stay.

[Imajika]

4. Why?

I also side with the police. I am saddened by the fact that an innocent person got shot by the police after the tube bombings, but that doesn't mean I assume every time the police take down alleged terrorists that they are automatically wrong.

Mistakes happen in law enforcement. People are on edge, situations get chaotic, cops and agents are often dealing with extrememly difficult sitatuations with multiple factors involved. Sometimes innocents get hurt. That is a shame, but it has always been part of life - and it will ALWAYS be part of life. I place the bulk of the blame directly on the terrorists elements for putting we as a society and law enforcement in these situations.

I swear I don't know what it is around here. I get the feeling that the bulk of DUers simply don't believe the West is dealing with a fair number of Islamic fanatics who are quite intent on killing or destroying westerners, western targets, or in some parts of the world pretty much anything unIslamic.

And no, everything Islamists do is NOT our fault. I am so sick of reading excuses for these people. It is not America's fault, George Bush's fault, Tony Blair's fault or any other Westerners fault that all too many Muslims want to murder Thai Monks in Southern Thailand, blow up buildings in Canada, set off bombs in subway stations in Britian, blow up trains in Madrid, kill women who want a modern life in Indonesia and attempt to impose Shari'a law, slaughter Christians in Nigeria and attempt to impose Shari'a law, etc, etc, etc, etc (it's a disturbingly long list here).

The modern world does have a real problem with Islamists, and at this time "moderate" Muslims are simply unable to keep them in check. Western nation do need to track and deal with the ones whom live and operate amongst us. Arrest, try, jail, deport, etc, etc. Whatever we need to do to keep populations safe from these elements. And I flat out no longer care about Islamists excuses about they feel compelled to do what they do. We're long past the point where understanding them is our main priority. We've been coddling these people for far too long now.

So yeah, my first instict is to side with the police.

[treestar]

6. They didn't have to shoot him

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

12. Imajika- You have made BIGOTED blanket STATEMENTS

posted here to get closer to the original bigoted post
quote:I swear I don't know what it is around here. I get the feeling that the bulk of DUers simply don't believe the West is dealing with a fair number of Islamic fanatics who are quite intent on killing or destroying westerners, western targets, or in some parts of the world pretty much anything unIslamic.

And no, everything Islamists do is NOT our fault. I am so sick of reading excuses for these people. It is not America's fault, George Bush's fault, Tony Blair's fault or any other Westerners fault that all too many Muslims want to murder.



1) you have no way to measure what the "bulk of DUERS believe--
2) WE are NOT targets of any large group--but yes the U.S./U.K. attempts to attract retaliation by some for its blunderous immoral actions(illegal invasions/illegal prison camps/torture/murder of innocent people)
and
3)The current situation IS the fault of the current so- called "leaders" of the world
The Islamic religion is responsible???? iii!!!
you blanket any who use radical violence to defy the U.S/U.K as "Islamists" !! Bwaaaahhhh!!
Christian fanatics kill their own people right here in the U.S-they blow up clinics- kill doctors -terra-ism by definition-Do they represent the majority of Christians?
That is just flat out Naive-
not even going to explain why-

[Karmakaze]

7. See, I always thought murdering innocent civillians WAS terrorism...

But I guess it's ok if they are Muslim, right?

If innocent Muslim's are just "collateral damage", then so are innocent Westerners. You can't have it both ways.

[AZCat]

8. Perhaps it is a matter of opinion...

but I feel that the track record (especially of the U.S. authorities) in these matters shows that in almost all cases the government is in the wrong. More importantly, whatever happened to the concept of the accused being innocent until proven guilty? You argue that we need to do whatever is necessary to keep the "populations safe from these elements" but I argue that police tactics like this are the opposite of safe, since the harassed elements happen to be part of our population. If we have to live in a armed police camp in order to make you feel safe then I hope you and I live in different areas because that is not what makes me feel safe (and actually causes quite the opposite reaction).

[WhiteTara]

10. glad you weren't the guy on the plane

who needed to take his meds and got shot by the air marhals; or the young man from Africa who was shot 41 times by the NY police for taking out his wallet so they could rob him; or Amado Dielo who was sodomized in the police station with a broom handle by the police. Or the little girl tazered by the police who was having a childish fit; or the people living in the Ramparts district of LA who were killed, set up by and robbed by the LA police. I could go on, but my fingers are getting tired and I'm getting angry.

[Pavulon]

11. I'm glad

I was not an african who just happened to be around the us embassy's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings

Glad I'm not this guy. Bet that brick hurt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

Glad I was not on the plane richard reid was on. Used same explosive used to do this



Got to have police, air Marshall's, and stealth bombers to have a prius, walk your dog, and express free speech.

Anarchy sucks, Somalia is a great example of a free for all (for 10 years, long before american influence.)

[LivingInTheBubble]

14. Look at the score, mistakes in law enforcement currently standing at 100%

So far the police have killed one innocent man and shot another suspect.

They have shot zero terrorists.

Every so often the police have been making unproductive high profile raids just to keep the sheeple scared of the "islamists" or whatever nonsensical term they come up with to try and make the religion of islam synonymous with terrorism.

With their raids they have probably encouraged more people to become terrorists, of course theres a good chance that this is what they want.

[CJCRANE]

23. I think it's political -

just like Operation Swarmer, I think there's some political influence somewhere that dicates the timing of many of these big raids. The individual soldiers/police officers have to take the threat at face value.

[daleo]

17. My first instinct is to side with the law

That means a trial and evidence.

[Matilda]

19. Yes, the world does have a problem with Muslim extremists,

but a lot of it IS our fault.

The West has arbitrarily divided their countries, paid off corrupt rulers to make sure they run
things to suit us, control their oil and gas resources in a way that gives maximum returns to
western oil companies, remove or destabilise elected leaders who may not be as pro-west as we would
like, and condone the stealing of their land.

Then we wonder why they follow leaders, however extreme they may be, who promise to right their
wrongs.

Even if the man was guilty, since when is it right to shoot first and ask questions afterwards?
Especially when the man is clearly unarmed.

We are no better than the worst of the Muslim extremists when we allow this to happen. The
"intelligence" authorities have learned nothing from the de Menezes case - they've got away with it,
and they obviously just don't care.

[Solon]

20. I doubt you really care about innocents at all...

The Brazilian who was shot, was shot over 3 times in the head AFTER he was wrestled to the ground by guys who did NOT identify themselves as police, and they were wearing plain clothes. I call that murder, and it is inexcusable, I don't give a shit how much "pressure" these assholes with a sheild are under, no better than those "Islamists" that you deride.

[reprobate]

21. You talk like you stumbled in here by mistake. Perhaps you'd be more...

...comfortable in another venue.

The sad fact is that most americans believe that the Bush administration knew before hand and did nothing to stop 9/11. If that's true then your claim that nothing is Bush's fault falls apart. Look at what has happened to Iraq since the invasion. In fact look at what happened in Iraq in the decade before the invasion, when the sanctions were responsible for the deaths of up to a half million innocent Iraqi children. Sanctions that were pushed thru the UN at the insistence of the United States. Then look at the way the nations of Islam have been treated by the west (particularly the US) over the last century.

In the cases of both Iraq and Iran we removed elected leaders and installed dictators. In Iran it was the Shah and in Iraq it was Saddam. Both were beasts that treated their people as if they were slaves. All of this in our insatiable quest for oil, black gold, texas tea.

So do a little research and educate yourself. You will mo longer wonder why we are hated around the world. You will learn that we, or at least or governments, are not innocent. Like everything else in this world actions have consequences. When you treat others badly don't feign surprise when they don't end up being your best friends.

[Henny Penny]

25. It might be better if your first instinct was to think! n/t

[UpInArms]

3. grape or cherry?

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. LOL

[treestar]

5. So much for keeping an open mind

[WhiteTara]

9. wha?

Since when is the shooter more believable than the shootee? Ask the dead in Haditha.
Good luck here letsgonoval19087. This forum may be a little too anarchistic for you. :shrug:

[genieroze]

13. I think I'll side with innocent until proved guilty.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Suspect - does not equal guilty

unless you went to the Edwin Meese school of law.

[Mr_Spock]

18. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay!

[TheWatcher]

22. Well, at least you are right about one thing

You DON'T know.....Much of anything apparently.

Please leave the way you came.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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