Chavez offers cheap oil to Britain's poor

[cal04]

Hugo Chavez leaves Britain today after a controversial visit that saw him enhance his status as a ringmaster of international oil politics. The Venezuelan president, who sits astride the world's fifth largest oil reserves, used a press conference with Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, to make an extraordinary offer to supply cheap fuel direct to poor Britons who face soaring energy bills.

We have two refineries here, one in the north, one in the south," said Mr Chavez, who also met trade unionists, Labour MPs and supporters of his socialist project - though notably not Tony Blair - during his two-day visit. "These refineries would be used to help the most needy people in London, in Great Britain, especially in the winter. If prices continue to rise, people will not be able to afford them. People will die."

Mr Chavez has used similar schemes to supply bargain fuel to neighbouring countries and even to poor communities in the United States - much to the ire of those in Washington who regard him as a dangerous populist.Mr Livingstone - who later hosted a lunch for Mr Chavez and 100 luminaries of the British Left, as well as Peter Voser, the chief financial officer of Shell International - said his officials were discussing the logistics of the scheme.

"Anything that could be done by the president to ease the oil-cost burden of a world city would be welcome," said the mayor. In exchange, London would offer Caracas the benefit of its expertise in "traffic management schemes".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/16/nchav16.xml&DCMP=EMC-new_16052006

[Lib Grrrrl]

1. Hooray, Chavez!!

THIS is a leader!
THIS is what a President of a country should do for his people...and where possible, the people of the world!

Bush is a fucktard!!

[not_nameless]

2. or maybe Chavez

should for his people. You know, the Venezuelans. He's using their wealth to gain fame and praise for himself.

[Lib Grrrrl]

3. Hmmm..

I think Venezuelansd pay pennies a gallon for gas, and he uses the oil money for the betterment of his people already.

Hell, they have national health insurance....do we??

[not_nameless]

4. and

these are the only problems that face a nation (assuming that their health care is top notch, and nothing can be improved)? You are making me laugh, thank you.

BTW: pennies a gallon is a lot, when you're making dollars a day; it's all relative.

[Lib Grrrrl]

5. So What's Your Fucking Point, Already?

you are annoying the snot outta me. Is that your sole purpose?

If you have a fucking point, make it.

CLARIFICATION: What's pissing me off about you is that you seem to be advancing the notion that you don't like the idea of the poor in Britain and the US getting help from Chavez. You'd rather see them have to make the cruel choice between fuel and food? THAT is what is pissing me off...you seem to be taking sides against the poor!

[Cha]

17. Thanks! That needed

to be said.

[not_nameless]

20. what's up the f-in profanities?

can't talk like a grown up?

>> You'd rather see them have to make the cruel choice between fuel and food?

Ah...and Chavez The Great has solved that problem: no one in the world will have to choose between
fuel and food. Cheap fuel and food for all, thanks to Chavez.

[Lib Grrrrl]

21. Better Than ANYTHING The Right Wing Has To Offer!

You got a better solution? Why not come out and give it then?

I personally think that what Chavez is doing is GREAT...because it shows he CARES about people....unlike freaking right-wingers and Repukes, and Freepers.

So where do YOU stand? Do you stand with the poor people, or against them?

[not_nameless]

22. I stand against poor people

Actually, I think rich people should eat poor people. How does that make YOU feel?

[Lib Grrrrl]

23. You Really Want To Know?

too bad, I'm not telling you...and you no longer exist on MY DU. Welcome to the Ignore List.

[PinkUnicorn]

6. Chavez knows what he's doing

Chavez knows how to play the game of international politics, unlike the temper tantrum monkey and his poodle who only understand force.

In a way I think of these cheap fuel offers as a kind of 'Health Insurance' - not for Chavez but for Venezuela. By offering cheap fuel for a significant portion of the disadvantaged of a country, he builds a protection base. As they currently have plenty of oil, he has a good bargaining chip.

If that country stats swinging its dick around and making threatening moves to Venezuela, Chavez can say "Fine. We won't help you anymore" and shut of the taps. And with soaring energy costs, that significant portion of the populace will find out very quickly exactly how un-affordable fuel is, which in turn will place immense pressure on the government of the day to 'put it back in their pants' and back off. It also has the side effect of possibly preventing more foreign sponsored coups. You could lay money that any puppet government would not be so generous with oil, again resulting in that significant portion of the population putting pressure on the government when the cheap fuel train stops.

And even if the countries government say 'Get stuffed' at the offer, they lose credibility with their populace while Chavez and Venezuela gain it. Either way, they win.

[Lib Grrrrl]

7. Damn Right!!

Not that Bush COULD lose any more credibility with me, because he already has ZERO...but, if he were to tell Venezuela to "get stuffed" after they made us such an offer, I would be, if possible, even MORE pissed at Bush than I already am!!

[PinkUnicorn]

8. Also

With regards to it being 'the Venezuelan peoples oil', the above scenario also work in their favour in the 'big picture view' if they have the oil to spare. They lose a few million dollars in oil revenue, but when compared to how much a war costs, the books still comes out in the black - hence my comparison to insurance. A small loss to protect against a big one.

In addition they have not so fond memories of governments who were considerably less pleasant and altruistic, so even if they grumble about the loss - which compared to prior situations is minuscule - if an aggressor has to back down because they have him by the 'oily short and curlies', the slight pain would have been worth it.

I don't think Chavez is the 'second coming' as some may, but neither do I think he is Pinochet Mk 2 as others do. But one thing he definitely is, is smart. And when he is surrounded by mental midgets, he comes across larger than life.

[Judi Lynn]

9. You'd be doing yourself a favor to become informed.

Hugo Chavez has had to fight for the ability to start redirecting the flow of wealth in Venezuela: the publicity has arisen from that struggle, as DU'ers who read anything at all recognize.

DU'er "Stockholm" posted this article which would benefit you enormously:

Chávez is a threat because he offers the alternative of a decent society

Venezuela's president is using oil revenues to liberate the poor - no wonder his enemies want to overthrow him

John Pilger
Saturday May 13, 2006
The Guardian

I have spent the past three weeks filming in the hillside barrios of Caracas, in streets and breeze-block houses that defy gravity and torrential rain and emerge at night like fireflies in the fog. Caracas is said to be one of the world's toughest cities, yet I have known no fear; the poorest have welcomed my colleagues and me with a warmth characteristic of ordinary Venezuelans but also with the unmistakable confidence of a people who know that change is possible and who, in their everyday lives, are reclaiming noble concepts long emptied of their meaning in the west: "reform", "popular democracy", "equity", "social justice" and, yes, "freedom".

The other night, in a room bare except for a single fluorescent tube, I heard these words spoken by the likes of Ana Lucia Fernandez, aged 86, Celedonia Oviedo, aged 74, and Mavis Mendez, aged 95. A mere 33-year-old, Sonia Alvarez, had come with her two young children. Until about a year ago, none of them could read and write; now they are studying mathematics. For the first time in its modern era, Venezuela has almost 100% literacy.

This achievement is due to a national programme, called Mision Robinson, designed for adults and teenagers previously denied an education because of poverty. Mision Ribas is giving everyone a secondary school education, called a bachillerato. (The names Robinson and Ribas refer to Venezuelan independence leaders from the 19th century.) Named, like much else here, after the great liberator Simon Bolivar, "Bolivarian", or people's, universities have opened, introducing, as one parent told me, "treasures of the mind, history and music and art, we barely knew existed". Under Hugo Chávez, Venezuela is the first major oil producer to use its oil revenue to liberate the poor.

Mavis Mendez has seen, in her 95 years, a parade of governments preside over the theft of tens of billions of dollars in oil spoils, much of it flown to Miami, together with the steepest descent into poverty ever known in Latin America; from 18% in 1980 to 65% in 1995, three years before Chávez was elected. "We didn't matter in a human sense," she said. "We lived and died without real education and running water, and food we couldn't afford. When we fell ill, the weakest died. In the east of the city, where the mansions are, we were invisible, or we were feared. Now I can read and write my name, and so much more; and whatever the rich and their media say, we have planted the seeds of true democracy, and I am full of joy that I have lived to witness it."
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1773966,00.html

[Judi Lynn]

10. Bolivarian Achievements: Social Missions

Bolivarian Achievements: Social Missions
The social missions put forth by the Venezuelan government are a genuine salvation for the country. There have been great strides in the construction of a new social structure

The Bolivarian Missions are a series of social justice, social welfare, anti-poverty, and educational programs implemented under the administration of the current government. The missions are: Robinson, Ribas, Sucre, Barrio Adentro, Barrio Adentro Deportivo, Vuelvan Caras, Mercal, Guaicaipuro, Zamora, Cultura and, more recently, Negra Hipólita.

In this opportunity, we want to show our readers the achievements and advances that each one has had.

Robinson Mission
This mission was launched on July 1, 2003, and it was used to pull millions of Venezuelans out of the shadows of ignorance.

Robinson mission is the most important civil and military operation ever launched in Venezuela’s history. This mission uses volunteers to teach reading, writhing and basic math to more than 1.5 million Venezuelans who were illiterate. Each educational district gave their support for the implementation of this mission, as well as the Venezuelan armed forces.
(snip)

Robinson II mission is called “I can continue” and it aims to provide ongoing basic education courses to those Venezuelans who have not completed their elementary-level education. There are currently 1,468,967 Venezuelans in this mission, helped by 104,171 teachers in 99,171 classrooms.

Ribas Mission
This mission was born on October 16, 2003, and it provides remedial high school level classes to millions of Venezuelans who were forced to dropout from high school. It iis named after independence hero José Félix Ribas. This mission is sponsored by the Oil and Energy ministry, as well as state-owned Pdvsa.

The goal is for this mission to be a continuation of Robinson II mission.

From 2003 to January, 2006, the Bolivarian government has helped 885,410 Venezuelans enter this mission. There are currently 578,668 Venezuelans studying in this mission with the help of 32,167 teachers, 5,177 coordinators at 8,306 school facilities nationwide. There are 32,291 classrooms and 173,834 students have received scholarships.
(snip)

Sucre Mission
Sucre Mission was launched in September, 2003. The Ministry of Higher Education is in charge of this project and carries it out all around the country. The Bolivarian University of Venezuela (UBV, Spanish acronym) opens its doors to thousands of students who began to study in classrooms that were the luxurious offices of oil oligarchs.

This program’s goal is to boost the institutional synergy and community participation in order to guarantee and provide access to higher education to all high school students.
(snip)

Barrio Adentro Mission
Since April, 2003, the national government’s main objective is to shape a health network through providing a free service to the poor sector of the population. This is why Barrio Adentro Mission I was launched.

This mission’s general objective is to provide access to health care assistance to 60 percent of the excluded population through the construction of 8,000 Popular Medical Centers, to provide a doctor to 250 families (1,200 people), to increase the life expectancy rate of the population and to contribute to the development, growth and ageing with a good standard of life.

Barrio Adentro Mission I has made an important progress in this sense by providing 162,012,583 people with medical assistance, 14,716,325 people with dental assistance and 3,811,741 people with eye assistance, by saving 31,063 lives, by giving 375,144 glasses, and by constructing 1,012 medical centers.

Barrio Adentro Mission II was launched on June 12, 2005. This mission opened 30 Integral Diagnosis Centers and 30 Integral Rehabilitation Rooms all around the country. These centers have make possible to perform 3,936,874 lab tests, 535,631 emergency surgeries, 775,690 ultrasounds, 285,415 X-Rays, 324,936 electrocardiograms, 108 operations, 55,499 endoscopies, 1,064,339 rehabilitation traements.
(snip)

Barrio Adentro Mission (Sports)
This program began in February 2004 and its goal is assisting the sport skills of students, senior citizens, pregnant women, people with disabilities and all people wishing to improve their standard of life and health.

So far, 150,504,060 people (including all sports programs) have registered in this program. 43,976,715 people belong to sports, 25,259,343 people to physical activities at school, 980,574 people are training, 480,593 consultations and 40,417,071 recreation activities have taken place, 31,663,978 sport programs have been carried out and 7,726,786 people are registered in therapeutic sports.
(snip)

Vuelvan Caras Mission
Vuelvan Caras Mission’s goal is to provide vocational training for work. People graduating from different missions must gradually incorporate into the country’s economic production process and this is fulfilled through Vuelvan Caras Mission. This program represents the claiming for our knowledge and our creating potential and it serves the transformation of the socioeconomic model proposed by the government of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

Since January, 2004, 6,814 cooperatives have been shaped, 130 Endogenous Development Centers are working, and there are 5,627 financed cooperatives and 264,720 graduates. The funds for these cooperatives amount to $ 423,914.
(snip)

Mercal Mission
This program was created to trade and sell food and other essential products like medicines at affordable prices. It is worth mentioning that the Ministry of Food’s goal for 2005 was to set up 6,000 sale points; this represents 14,539,300 people benefiting from this program.

Also, 6,004 Soup Kitchens are working; these benefits 900,600 people by giving them free meals. These meals are given to the poorest sectors of the population. Regarding nutrition and protection, 1,374,312 people living in extreme poverty have benefited from this proram.

Thanks to the products of the Corporation for Agrofood Supply and services (CASA, Spanish Acronym) and Mercal (markets), people can save up to 34 percent in comparison with the prices regulated by the State and 37 percent in comparison with the market prices.
(snip)

Guaicaipuro Mission
This mission’s goal is to restore human rights to numerous indigenous communities. This program was launched in August 2004 and it has handed over 21 communal land titles to an indigenous population of 6,769 people.

The government has carried out a total of 61 projects, which represents an amount of more than 2 million dollars. The national government has financed 32 projects for a total of 600,000 dollars. Guaicaipuro Mission represents the restoration of constitutional rights to indigenous people, as well as economic development, land demarcation, strengthening of their identity, language, education, habitat and health.


Zamora Mission
Mission Zamora’s main goal is to hand over land titles to farmers in order to guarantee the food offer for the have-nots and to bet for social economy and endogenous development. This mission is linked with Mercal.

Since January, 2005, the government has granted 68,528 future land titles. This represents an area of 7,222,880 acres, apart from the 80 awarded titles that represent an area of 87,739 acres. There are 48 Zamora Ranches, representing a total of 56,994 acres.

Culture Mission
Culture Mission has worked since July, 2005 and it is a new kind of university system; that is, people graduate as Teachers in Culture. The student fee is about $230 per year. This mission has 70 tutors, 328 university teachers.

Negra Hipólita Mission
This mission is one of the newest created by the national government. It was launched on January 14, 2006, in order to fight poverty, misery and social exclusion; thus, the government begins a new stage in the fight against these calamities.

Currently, Negra Hipólita Mission is a fact that represents the commitment to set Venezuela free from misery. Also, it is a very important effort aimed to defeat the worse kind of exclusion: poverty. The assistance is aimed at children, adolescents, adults and the elderly living in the streets, in extreme poverty, and drug-addicted individuals.
(snip/)

http://www.venezuelasolidarity.org.uk/ven/web/2006/missions/social_missions.html

[Lib Grrrrl]

11. Bravo!!

Just makes me like Chavez even more!

Already, when I can help it, I get my gas from Citgo, because I know it is 100 percent Venezuelan oil...and the profit from it is going to help poor people, instead of into the pockets of the already-wealthy scumbags like Lee Raymond.

Incidentally, more to the point, I'd rather give my money to the Venezuelans...who have as yet expressed a desire "to kill as many Americans as possible." Fuck the Arabs!! Until they back off that shit, i'm not giving them one cent if I can help it!

I mean, unless the local citgo is like, 10 cents a gallon higher or something...i'm getting my gas from Citgo!!

I'm supporting peaceful people who do not want to kill Americans, and I am supporting poor people, and not filthy-rich oil execs!

[Judi Lynn]

13. Kicking for the social programs from oil information!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[1932]

14. I think he's doing it so that the imperial nations don't have unstable,

polarized societies which are easily exploited by the right wing (think, Thatcher, Reagan, Bush, Nixon) who then engage in exploitative foreign policies against the developing world. I think Venezuela accurately believes that stable, un-polarized societies in the west will then elect progressive leaders who don't engage in imperial missions against the developing world, which includes Venezuela.

I also think this argument in your post is nothing but Edward Bernays-style, unsubstatianted bs.

[corporate_mike]

18. Venezuelan population below poverty line : 67%

Chavez should use Venezuela's resources to help Venezuelans out of powerty

He's a thief, stealing the national resources from Venezuelan poor to give to gain personal fame. What a loser!

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. If it's heating oil, he'll find relatively few people using it in London

Since heating oil has been more expensive than natural gas for many years. It's used mainly in rural areas, where gas pipelines haven't been laid. The same goes for LP gas. There are some homes using it - 700,000 in England - about 3% of homes. Between 16 and 22% of rural households interviewed for a survey on rural fuel poverty use heating oil - it's far more common in the country. I hope Chavez was just saying London because he was there.

[1932]

15. IIRC, Citgo offered Chicago oil to run the Mass Tran system if they

promissed to pass the savings on to low-income commuters (which they wouldn't do so it didn't happen). I believe this was the plan because few Chicagoans use home heating oil.

So, perhaps, that's the strategy CITGO is planning for London.

[Cha]

16. "Schemes"!? Doesn't that

have a bad connotation? How about "offers"? And what's wrong with being Popular with the masses?

[Doctor_J]

19. Hugo's kicking Blair and * while they're down

The guy's a maestro at politics, besides being a devoted egalitarian and populist.

[struggle4progress]

24. .

:kick:

[CentralEuropeanDude]

25. People will die? Dear Mr. Populist Chavez

People are dying right now. The poorest people you can find here:

http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=b8d8e61b2e37e25039d587b9b39891ad
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0908763.html
Afghanistan
Angola
Bangladesh
Benin
Bhutan
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cambodia
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Comoros
Democratic Republic of Congo
Djibouti
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gambia
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Haiti
Kiribati
Laos
Lesotho
Liberia
Madagascar
Malawi
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Mozambique
Myanmar
Nepal
Niger
Rwanda
Samoa
São Tomé and Príncipe
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Solomon Islands
Somalia
Sudan
East Timor
Togo
Tuvalu
Uganda
Tanzania
Vanuatu
Yemen
Zambia



"These refineries would be used to help the most needy people in London, in Great Britain, especially in the winter. If prices continue to rise, people will not be able to afford them. People will die."

- This cheap cynism make me sick!

[Judi Lynn]

26. What would you imagine creates such tragedy? People who try to help

or people who exploit countries, using the people as slaves, or near slaves, draining their resources and returning absolutely nothing, ignoring their desperate suffering?

[CentralEuropeanDude]

27. Then why help the Brits first?

They have lots of coal in the uk.
http://www.energybulletin.net/2706.html

[Judi Lynn]

28. What would lead you to imagine Chavez has helped the British first?

From a post earlier in the thread, a list of the programs he created to help the extremely poor of his country whom had been kicked to the curb by the European descended elite scum who controlled the country prior to Hugo Chavez's election:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2286653#2286867

[CentralEuropeanDude]

29. He should help the poorest before he helps the Brits...

Oh I like Chavez and what he has achieved in Venezuela. The same with Evo Morales and his nationalization of Bolivian natural resources. This is all fine. But offering EU/USA/UK cheap oil is nothing more than a cheap provocation. South american leaders should work toghether and improve the situation there and ignore the rest of the world. Playing big politics with "the free west" can get out of control really fast (sadly). They will have enough problems when "the free west" starts to destabilize south america once again (I think this could be easier then we hope...). Cuba's "export of doctors" is a great example (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4583668.stm) how to improve the situation in south america. Offering cheap oil to oil addicted western societies (Why did Thatcher close the coal mines?) is not. Sorry for my english.