Chavez gets Russian helicopters

[cal04]

Venezuela has taken delivery of three Russian-built military helicopters - the first of a total of 15 it has so far ordered from Moscow. President Hugo Chavez said they would help to protect Venezuela if the US ever mounted an invasion. Mr Chavez also repeated that he was ready to buy Russian fighter jets.

Washington has dismissed claims of a possible invasion as ridiculous and says Mr Chavez's military purchases pose a threat to regional stability. A crowd of Russian and Venezuelan generals and diplomats was treated to an air show, displaying the strengths of the Russian-built helicopters. A group of around 20 parachutists jumped in formation out of the olive green MI-17 helicopters during Monday's ceremony.

President Chavez said Venezuela's latest purchases could be used to transport parachute troops quickly into combat. This would be ideal for a war of resistance, Mr Chavez said, a reference to his often repeated concerns that the US may want to invade Venezuela to seize its oil reserves. Army Commander Gen Raul Baduel said Venezuela planned to buy a total of 33 helicopters from Russia.

Balance of power

Venezuela has also agreed to buy a total of 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles from Russia. Russian Kalashnikovs will replace Venezuela's ageing assault rifles

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4875906.stm

[wtmusic]

1. While we pound our chests and beat our drums

Russia and China are ingratiating themselves with any country in the world whose leadership shows a lick of sense. THAT is what we should be addressing.

[Igel]

7. Your qualifier is unnecessarily constraining.

Russia's ingratiating itself with Iran, and China with Sudan. I guess one could say those two countries have at least "a lick of sense", but I'm not one of them.

They understand their self-interest, and realize that for the time being dealing with people of questionable political morality is in what they perceive to be their best interests; the US did the same for many years, and has been roundly and soundly criticized for the same practice.

[yellowcanine]

2. Well I am all for Venezuela being able to defend herself but I think

Mr. Chavez ought to be spending his oil money on his people for decent schools, roads, clean water, health care, etc. A well cared for populace is his best defence against a foreign invasion.

[jukes]

5. it's pretty clear

he IS doing all those things, as well as preparing to defend them from neocon imperialism.

but replay dominionist talking-points for us: we'll pay rapt(ured) attention and be convinced of the carribean menace!


:dunce:

[rinsd]

11. Not showing proper fealty for Chavez, makes one a freeper?

Christ all the poster said was that they wished less money was spent on war and more on the people.

Hey at least you have all the phrases down, good to see propaganda is ineffective on your mind. :sarcasm:

[K-W]

14. If your opinion about Chavez is that he ignores the people

for the sake of militirism it does call into question where exactly you get your information.

The problem with what the poster said is that anyone with any real knowledge of Venezuala knows full well that the government is spending large quantitities of money on social programs and is giving Venezualans education and healthcare the likes of which they have never seen. So it is an odd criticism to see on this forum. It is also a right wing talking point, which of course doesnt neccessarily mean the poster is a conservative.

[rinsd]

17. Where did I make any claim about Chavez?

Someone attacked a poster, implying they were a freeper, for a fairly innocous comment. I responded.

Now I understand that the Chavez threads get heated but what was said was uncalled for.

On Edit: Compare your response to the post in question, with the one I responded too. Night and day in terms of civility and not reading too much into the post.

"The problem with what the poster said is that anyone with any real knowledge of Venezuala knows full well that the government is spending large quantitities of money on social programs and is giving Venezualans education and healthcare the likes of which they have never seen."

I think people reading too much into the other post.

[K-W]

20. When did I say you did?

I never made any claim about you.

Someone attacked a poster, implying they were a freeper, for a fairly innocous comment. I responded.

And I explained to you that your response was flawed. The comment was not so innocuous and the criticism of the comment was based on its clear ignorance of the facts in Venezuala, not a failure to show 'fealty' as you suggested.

It is, whether you know it or not, a right wing talking point that Chavez is a militaristic dictator who spends money on the military and on foriegn policy at the expense of his people. When someone posts something that is an innaccurate right wing talking point, it certainly doesnt garuntee that the poster is right-wing, but it is far from innocous.

Now I understand that the Chavez threads get heated but what was said was uncalled for.

Had you simply cautioned the poster to not jump to conclusions, people can be ill-informed without being right wing, I would have taken no issue with your post, but your employment of the straw man DU'r who demands fealty to Chavez was a bit too much for me to take.

"The problem with what the poster said is that anyone with any real knowledge of Venezuala knows full well that the government is spending large quantitities of money on social programs and is giving Venezualans education and healthcare the likes of which they have never seen."

I think people reading too much into the other post.

Are you kidding?

This is the post:
Well I am all for Venezuela being able to defend herself but I think

Mr. Chavez ought to be spending his oil money on his people for decent schools, roads, clean water, health care, etc. A well cared for populace is his best defence against a foreign invasion.

It would be difficult to read too much into such a simple statement. And I struggle to understand how you read this and fail to see that it was a criticism of Chavez for not spending on social programs.

[rinsd]

22. Misunderstanding regarding claims.....

I was responding to the "you" in that post personally as opposed to if you had used the word "one" kind of phrasing.

"Had you simply cautioned the poster to not jump to conclusions, people can be ill-informed without being right wing, I would have taken no issue with your post, but your employment of the straw man DU'r who demands fealty to Chavez was a bit too much for me to take."

Like I said, shit gets heated. I don't pretend to be immune.

"It would be difficult to read too much into such a simple statement. And I struggle to understand how you read this and fail to see that it was a criticism of Chavez for not spending on social programs"

I saw it more as advice from a non-militarist perspective. This line being the key to me is "A well cared for populace is his best defence against a foreign invasion"

Now we can disagree on that but that is my opinion.

[K-W]

23. Well, I can only go by what people write in thier posts.

In this case in clear english it critisized Chavez for not spending on social issues.

[jukes]

15. hey, you used the "F" word!

all "I" said was that chavez is clearly spending most of his resources improving the lot of the people, including making US oil companies actually pay tax instead of getting the free-ride that the US demands for it's premier citizens..

BTW, chavez ISN'T spending money on war, Venezuela hasn't invaded any1 that I know of. he's just preparing to defend his people against a bully-nation that has a proven track-record of invading weaker countries on trumped up charges.

your taunts are a bit weak. yes, bullshit saber-rattling propaganda by chicken hawks slips off me like crude slips off a wrecked tanker.

waste some1 else's time. you're WAY too easy.

[rinsd]

18. Of course its easy for you....

Your posts are contrived insults with responses to questions and points never raised.

[jukes]

24. i haven't a clue

what you mean. seems "full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse"...

i suggest you put me on "ignore", since you fail to grasp the salient points that i made in response to your previous "contrived insults".

in the meantime, you're dismissed.

[400Years]

6. He is doing that as well

[K-W]

12. The government is spending money on those things.

Venezuala is a rich country.

And unfortunately without guns healthy people are no more of a match for US soldiers than unhealthy people.

[leveymg]

3. Enemy helicopter sighted.

Invasion USA

;)

[sam sarrha]

4. big deal, there is a fire sale on anything not tied down in Russia

[pinniped]

8. The idiots in D.C. always say the same shit.

Chavez poses a threat to regional stability, blah, blah, blah....

[K-W]

10. He is a threat to the stability of US corporate/military control,

and the remaining conservative and neo-liberal regimes in the region, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with helicopters and rifles and everything to do with his demonstration of independent development and socialism.

[K-W]

9. The rifles are more important than the helicopters.

I really cant see helicopters getting very far under US attack, but 100,000 rifles is an insurgency in the waiting. Which is really your only chance of repelling the US.

[cliss]

13. Well, are they any good?

The Russian helicopters, I mean.

I'm recalling all our Black Hawk helis that have gone down in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many lives lost in those things.

There was an article on Counter Punch which claimed that US military hardware has been going down in quality. This is because Rumsfailed gave "crony contracts" to Bell helicopters and other manufacturers. Apparently, they don't do quality control because it was so EASY to get the contracts.

Just kiss Don's ass and you're in. But the Pentagon is upset because these things are poor quality.

Anyone know?

[davepc]

19. Not really

The Afghans got real good at shooting down the same model in the 1980's.


They're useful for ferrying men and supplies into remote reaches otherwise inaccessible, but as a combat helicopter and decent guy with an SA-7 or Stinger shoulder fired missile can take one down.

Even a few guys with machine guns can give them serious problems if they fly low enough.

[K-W]

21. Yah, they would be more useful to prepare for an invasion.

During the invasion they would be easy targets for US air power.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Chavez: U.S. spreading invasion rumors

Posted on Mon, Apr. 03, 2006
Chavez: U.S. spreading invasion rumors
CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER
Associated Press

CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez Monday dismissed as ridiculous suggestions that Venezuela has territorial designs on the Netherlands Antillies, and accused the United States of spreading rumors.

Chavez's comments came after Netherlands Defense Minister Henk Kamp, during a recent parliament debate, said Chavez was looking "with big eyes" at Dutch-aligned islands in the Caribbean.

Kamp said, however, there was no immediate threat to the islands and that the Netherlands wanted good relations with Venezuela.

Chavez took the issue up Monday after a demonstration by pilots flying new military helicopters, calling Kamp "a truly ridiculous man."
(snip/...)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/14256181.htm

://www.def

Henk Kamp