'Natural' chickens take flight

[rodeodance]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060124/ts_usatoday/naturalchickenstakeflight&printer=1;_ylt=AgKfKrADgdmlN0n9E9GTUnDfB2YD;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

'Natural' chickens take flight

By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAYTue Jan 24, 7:35 AM ET

Four of the nation's top 10 chicken producers have virtually ended a practice that health and activist groups for years charged was causing a public health crisis: feeding broiler chickens low doses of antibiotics to make them grow faster and stay healthy.

Tyson Foods, Gold Kist, Perdue Farms and Foster Farms say they stopped using antibiotics for growth promotion. In addition to ending a practice that Europe banned and McDonald's ended a month ago, the four companies also have severely limited antibiotic use for routine disease prevention, though antibiotics are still used to treat disease outbreaks.

"It is the first time that these companies have admitted to major quantitative reductions in antibiotic use. And it's not just one company but a tier of companies - the top tier of companies," says Margaret Mellon, director of the Union of Concerned Scientists, an advocacy group that is a member of the coalition Keep Antibiotics Working.

Groups such as the World Health Organization and the American Medical Association have been calling for an end to low levels of antibiotics in animal feed since the 1990s because it has been linked to human bacterial infections that are resistant to antibiotics. But while Keep Antibiotics Working and the Alliance for the Prudent Use of Antibiotics have called loudly for an end the practice, the industry itself has been quietly moving away from it......

[rodeodance]

1. been a long time acoming. Speaking out does count.

[AtomicKitten]

2. The US animal farming industry is repulsive nonetheless. n/t

[pokercat999]

23. Should be criminalized.

[Fridays Child]

3. McDonald's should also take the lead in rejecting milk suppliers...

...whose cows are given bovine growth hormone. Fast food chains feed too many of our children (unfortunately) to ignore this issue.

[LeftyMom]

4. It'll be interesting to see how that works out

The routine use of antibiotics is a response to the intense crowding (six or seven chickens will be crammed in a cage the size of a file cabinet drawer, stacked up many layers high with the shit of animals in the higher layers raining down on them) in factory farming. Because the chickens in these facilities all come from only a handfull of breeding facilities and there's very little genetic diversity, they are very suceptible to disease, a condition made much worse by the overcrowding, poor feed and use of lighting to manipulate growth.

Without changing the living conditions in the chicken factories, I don't see how factory farming without antibiotics would work.

Either way, I'm damned glad I don't eat chickens.

[Hardrada]

5. Not even chicken noodle soup?

I use that to recuperate from things. Woe.

[LeftyMom]

7. No, I'm vegan.

I have faux chicken noodle soup mix, but when I'm sick I prefer split pea soup or just veggie broth and crackers. Or tea and toast.

[arikara]

16. Try miso for recuperation

very much more healthy than that packaged powder/can of unpronounceables and tasty too.

I'm not vegitarian but I'm leaning that way. I try to only buy eggs, meat that has been raised without antibiotics and the animals raised decently.

[LeftyMom]

20. I don't think I've ever had miso, I'll have to try some

I'm a pretty good label reader, I don't eat a lot of canned, packaged stuff at all, let alone stuff with scary ingredients.

Do be careful, as flvegan and I are discussing downthread, a lot of the time the animals marketed as free range/organic etc still aren't cared for well at all.

Oh, and as I always tell people, if you want more info about going veg, we're happy to answer questions down in the veg group. :)

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

miso is GREAT- it is very de-toxifying--it is really a miracle food!!

I've been eating it exclusively for dinner for months now-
Red organic miso (from the refrigerated section in the heath food store)-
-heat up the teapot-
in a bowl add a spoonful of miso-some toasted nori sea vegetable(the same stuf they use for sushi)-
a chopped green onion-
mix in your boiling water-
Theer you have "almost instant" soup-

You can have it with a bowl of rice-I have it with hulled barley instead-
*****I almost forgot--the plum paste-(Umeboshi Pickled Plum Puree)
That is the key--***one spoonful on the side-it's hard to eat at first but with the miso soup
it pull all the toxins right out of your body-
Don't ask me how but it works extremely well and it is a meal you never get tired of.

[arikara]

46. Thanks!

Its going to be an uphill battle because my hubby is a carnivore. But he loves animals too so I keep working on that.

Miso comes in a paste form, here at least. I use approx heaping tablespoon and mix it in a mug with hot water and drink it like a broth. You can use it for a seasoning too if you want. Tastes delish.

[AngryAmish]

39. Egg Drop Soup

Real easy on the stomach when sick.

[flvegan]

10. 10 to 1 odds they growth hormone the hell out of them.

Growth hormone also increases immunity while accelerating the growth of their muscles and organs. Likely, we'll have chickens that will be ready for slaughter in weeks from egg to butchering.

Of course, the antibiotics activism groups won't care about the side effects of growth hormone on people. That's someone else's problem.

I'm with you on the "glad I don't eat chicken" statement.

[LeftyMom]

11. You're probably right

Right now it's six or seven weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to speed that up to decrease the possibility of losing the "crop." Trying to grow them faster and kill them a bit earlier might protect thier "investment" but I'm sure the cost to human health will be significant.

All this because of greed. :(

[flvegan]

12. AND, bear in mind, if they can "grow" an "eating" chicken

In 3 or 4 weeks, what are the chances of any bird flu incubating or being found? What are the chances of 1 million hens packed tightly in small containers getting sick, such that they'd need to be treated?

Oh, no...churn 'em and burn 'em. THIS will also create intensive confinement like we've never seen before. Sure, they'll stay within USDA regs, but you'll see them stacked a hundred high.

This may well spawn forth the 7th ring of Hell for these animals.

But, hey...they're just animals that taste good (dare I say it? yes, yes I do) coated in Corn Flakes.

[LeftyMom]

13. But as long as money gets made and people get the food they want

who cares, right? :grr:

[flvegan]

14. How dare you play the logic card!

And what of eggs? Someone should convince me that the antibiotics they feed the battery hens doesn't somehow pass on to the eggs that they lay.

You want turmoil, unleash that little idea upon the egg market. As producers make less and less per egg (and thusly create bigger battery barns to increase eggs and pennies) they'll need to up the ante on production. Boing! More antibiotics, as hormones don't help as much in the battery egg business.

Funny. But if you took your post title, replaced "food" with "X" like this:
"But as long as money gets made and people get the (X) they want" you'd have just defined the Bush regime, WalMart, Enron, the war in Iraq and everything else wrong with the planet.

[LeftyMom]

15. They know damn well the antibiotics wind up in eggs

but the money spends the same. :shrug: If they had ethics, they'd be in a different business.

[flvegan]

17. Only freaks use the word "ethics" when discussing food.

Freak.

Really, ethics doesn't exist in the animals-to-food industry, and I could care less how organic, free-range, blah blah blah it is. Though, I do appreciate those that do try to make less an impact by endrunning around factory farming and buying more humane animal products.

Killing an animal for food, or creating a demand for same, when it's not needed, is selfish, and therefore lacking in ethics.

And THAT'S the bottom line.

[LeftyMom]

18. Exactly right

I think they're mostly deluding themselves with the idea that organic and free range stuff is more humane, though. As long as there's such a disconnect between people and thier food supply they don't really know if they're paying three times as much for eggs that were raised in a healthier and slightly more humane fashion, or for marketing. People's desire to do a little good without making a big change gets exploited and nothing changes significantly for the better.

It sure does piss people off when I tell them that, though.

[flvegan]

19. And "free range" is no guarantee of "humane" either.

Just means there's no cage. Great. Pack 10,000 hens into a barn built to hold 5,000 that would have space to move. What's the difference? They're still sick, fighting and killing each other and otherwise miserable. Oh, but they're "free range" so folks can feel better about it.

I appreciate the expanded consciousness of folks wanting to eliminate cruelty from their diet, but I'd really love it if they'd look further into what they're buying. But then, looking further, as we know, can be very ugly and disheartening.

I guess every step is a positive one, ultimately.

[LeftyMom]

21. We should throw some links up here

Just in case anybody's actually read through this whole exchange. After all, if we're going to bitch that people aren't educated, we have some responsiblity to point them in the direction of that they need to know. Here are two really basic ones for anybody who is interested in what chickens raised for meat or eggs go through:

http://www.dawnwatch.com/chicken.htm
http://www.dawnwatch.com/eggs.htm

[megatherium]

25. I gather it's better to look for "pasture raised" chickens and eggs.

These are chickens who actually get to go outside and find their food in the grass. Only small operations raise their chickens in this manner but you can find pasture-raised eggs at Whole Foods.

But after reading "The China Study" by Campbell and Campbell, I'm seriously considering going vegan.

[flvegan]

27. Ultimately, yes.

Though one should research the company to ensure that "pasture raised" doesn't just mean "10,000 chickens unleashed on an acre of grass" as it's all spin in this industry. Some companies are genuine, most aren't.

Hey, if you're considering going vegan, drop me a line. Maybe I can help you out. You can also check out the veg group forum here at DU, chock full of great folks.

[nodehopper]

36. I eat meat

And have no plans on stopping, but I would like to eat meat that comes from healthy, well-treated animals. I only get organic chicken at places like Whole Foods or Trade Joe's. It is usually labeled as free-range, antibiotic-free. What labels should I look for that will indicate for sure that the birds were raised in a cruelty-free environment?

[flvegan]

43. Cruelty free? Well,

The best you can do for that, as well as for health/safety reasons, is to look for vegetarian (meaning they ate only feed, not other chicken parts) organic, free roaming, pasture fed animals. Certified humane would be best. I won't speak FOR them, but this is their label:



Thanks for looking for the ultimate in humanely treated animals. You'll get no crap from me.

[nodehopper]

44. thanks! one more question

do you happen to know if there are specific places where you can get meat stamped with that certification? I've seen both free-range and pasture-raised/vegetarian feed at some of my usual stores, but I don't think I've ever seen that label that you posted.

I am a meat-eater because I think that the human body is evolved to eat and digest meat and it is the best source of protein (also I have a hard time digesting soy, and the hormone mimicking thing concerns me, as a pre-menopausal woman), but I don't think there is anything natural about the meat-raising industry as it exists in the US today, and I am very conscientious of eating animals that have been humanely treated, both because I think that is ethically right, and out of concern for my own health. I just can't imagine that those miserable chickens crammed in cages and shitting on each other can produce anything I should be eating, whether or not they are pumped full of antibiotics or not.

[flvegan]

45. Try this link to search for it

http://www.certifiedhumane.org/where.asp

You need no disclaimer with me, friend. Best of luck in your search, and please forward to anyone interested in kind.

[arikara]

47. Our eggs come from

local chickens that run around in a real field. They aren't given antibiotics either. We willingly pay twice as much for them as what is charged for the toxic battery grown eggs.

[LeftyMom]

49. I think that's the best option for those who eat animal products

Getting them for a local farm whose claims and conditions can be verified. Some food co-ops are pretty decent about checking on conditions and keeping thier standards high, too. Big chains like Whole Foods aren't as good about that.

As an aside, since somebody mentioned them on the thread, Whole Foods is kind of a funny case. On the one hand they're supposedly promoting animal welfare reforms in thier supply chain, on the other they lobby congress to reduce organic standards. Oh, and thier CEO's a vegan bbut they sell meat. Is there such a thing as corporate Multiple Personality Disorder?

[AngryAmish]

40. Did you say Corn Flakes?

Easiest way to get banned around here. (kidding)

[NickB79]

30. It is illegal to use growth hormones in pigs or poultry in the US

A simple Google search reveals that much. And modern breeds of chickens will grow to butchering size in less than 2 months if fed properly. Hormones are not necessary to grow chickens rapidly; selective breeding is all that is required to get them to size fast.

[flvegan]

34. Hi, there.

The war in Iraq is illegal, too.

If you're saying that the USDA/APHIS is protecting you, then I have a mad cow burger for you.

What else you got?

[NickB79]

37. So, you have no evidence of hormones in chickens in the US?

We have found mad cow prions in cattle, despite the paltry amount of testing they do for it. I don't recall reading any news articles about the USDA finding illegal hormones in chickens, and they do test for hormones in meat fairly regularly.

Like I said, with modern breeds of chickens, you don't need hormones to boost growth rates or muscle growth. I have raised organic chickens from chick to butchering, and have personally seen them pack on pounds per week if fed properly. Hormones are not cost-effective on a large scale with chickens.

[flvegan]

41. Considering that the chicken is excluded from the Animal Welfare Act

then a great deal of info on chickens gets buried.

But, as for your question, check the trough. What are the chickens getting fed?

Even if it ain't injected, don't mean it ain't in there.

Congrats on your raising of animals to be killed for selfish reasons. Bravo. Hope you made a good check by it.

[otohara]

6. What About Hormones?

I wont' eat antibiotics or hormones - I have enough hormonal issues right now w/o adding to this process.

[loudsue]

9. The hormones in mass meat production farms is linked to low sperm

count in young boys, and has been shrinking their testicles. There were a couple of studies about it posted here about 3 months ago. I wish now that I had bookmarked 'em, but I didn't.

:kick::kick::kick:

[radwriter0555]

48. I firmly believe the chemicals used in US food production are related to

the cancer epidemic sweeping the USA.

[pitohui]

22. no hormones in tyson chicken for years

i have no knowledge of the other 3 brands mentioned

hormones cost money, the profit on a chicken is pennies, literally around 3 cents or so

i'd be surprised if any chickens are given hormones for simple financial reasons but i know for a fact that tyson doesn't use them

[flvegan]

24. And they got sued for it, too.

To certify that you don't do something in compliance with regulations, means nothing.

Hormones do cost money. The profit is low. Subsidies, however, can make up the difference. That, and, regardless of "low" profits, profit is profit.

Your "knowing for a fact" is suspect. If you work for Tyson, feel free to expound on your post.

As for giving an animal hormones for simple financial reasons...what other reason is there? I'll wait for an answer...

[pitohui]

28. my facts are not in question, your name-calling is pretty questionable tho

i don't work for tyson but i have contacts in the industry

but even if i didn't, a few moment's googling would find tyson's statements on this such as here--
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BDW/is_48_41/ai_68533445

that's dated 2000, that is 6 yrs ago my friend, no steroids, no hormones in chicken, why would you use them, have you ever raised a chicken, even one? get a clue train, they are fast-growing animals naturally and they have been genetically bred for size rather than being reliant on steroids or hormones to achieve size, i submit that you have deliberately made yourself ignorant of the facts since we have had the same discussion before

you have an agenda to frighten people away from animal products, which you seem to feels justifies you in making false claims and creating false fear

we have a real issue in this country of young women and girls starving themselves to death, sit down and compare the number of young women dead of eating disorders (thousands every year) and the number of young women dead of eating chicken (you won't be able to find even one), there is no comparison

no one should be discouraged from eating good healthy food and people who make sensitive young girls and women afraid to eat should take a long long look at their dirty consciences, because they contribute to the deaths of many frankly

[LeftyMom]

29. Chicken corpses aren't "good healthy food"

and the number of people dead in this country from cancers, diabetes and heart disease caused by eating animal tissues as part of the Standard American Diet (SAD) is a large one. Heart disease alone causes a million deaths a year in the US.

How the fuck is encouraging a healthy plant based diet promoting eating disorders? Eating healthy food until full is a healthy approach to managing one's weight.

Your attacks have no basis in reality and you owe flvegan an apology.

[NickB79]

32. Red meat has been implicated in some cancers and heart disease

Skinless baked chicken is generally considered a fairly healthy food, as long as you don't deep-fry the hell out of it.

[flvegan]

33. By whom?

By whom is it generally considered a fairly healthy food?

I will agree though, that compared to many other foods, I'd stipulate to your post.

[flvegan]

31. Pretty personal attack, there pitohui.

I don't see my name-calling. Maybe somebody's "contacts" have rose-tinted their glasses, huh?

Your accusations won't bring me around. Just not worth it to fight with a Tyson spokeswhore. Point out my false claims...or shut up. There you go. Have at it. Make an accusation, but you better be ready to back it up.

Your attack on my post for eating disorders borders on lunacy. I never touched on the subject, and it's not relevant here.

I also have to ask if you're accusing me of being one that would "contribute to the deaths of many frankly"

Cuz if you are...it's on, and you better bring your very BEST game, poster.

[flvegan]

42. **yawn**

Guess I'll go to bed. This poster isn't coming back and the crickets are getting tired.

'Night.

[megatherium]

26. I thought hormones are no longer allowed by law in chickens. nt

[Mnemosyne]

8. .

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

35. I personally don't eat bloody decomposing muscle tissue--to me it's gross

Years ago there was a chicken that used to wander into my friend's shop every day-
We (the crew) thought he was funny- so observant and alert-
-We gave it pop corn-he was so cute-had his own little personality-
--Just like a parakeet or a cat or something-
I thought how much a shame it is to take a sweet little life like that just to make a sandwich?
couldn't even fathom it-
It still doesn't make sense to me-
and I still will not eat any "body"-

it's a life, no matter how small (or large)

[daleo]

38. I assumed this was about College Republicans Supporting the Iraq War

"'Natural' chickens take flight"