Bush set to pull out 60,000 troops

[54anickel]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1887806,00.html

Growing political and public aversion to the war in Iraq is forcing the President’s hand



PRESIDENT BUSH is planning a major pullout of US troops from Iraq amid rising opposition to the war on Capitol Hill and across America.

After a fortnight in which the political debate has rapidly moved from how to fight the war to how best to get out of Iraq, the White House is looking at reducing troop levels by at least 60,000 next year.

Confirming the worst fears of the war’s conservative supporters, who argue that more troops are needed to defeat the insurgency, senior military officials made clear yesterday that the Bush Administration’s goal is to cut troop levels from 160,000 to below 100,000 by the end of 2006.

Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, far from denying the withdrawal plan first reported in The Washington Post, said that a gradual pullout of troops could begin “fairly soon”, and that the number of coalition troops is “clearly going to come down”.

[onehandle]

1. Operation "Save the GOP House so we don't get Impeached" 2006. nt

[Greeby]

5. Hey, I don't care why it's done, as long as it's done

nt

[liberalnurse]

17. There has to be some level

of deception here.....Probably these 60,000 are all on their 3rd tour of duty anyways. Will the re-deploy another 60,000 under the wire? We will never really know the truth.

[WePurrsevere]

24. This was my first thought as well, it seems to be the "norm" for BushCo.

I always feel like I'm watching some bad slight of hand cup 'n ball magic trick with this bunch... distract and switch.

I'm just so darn tired of this BS admin's BS games. ::sigh::

[Charles19]

30. I agree, wish the headlines would just say

Bush to pull out troops because it makes sense to do so.

Why?

Because it does.

[VLenin]

47. Our continued clamour for withdrawel

is necessary for to defeat Bush at home and Iraq.

We did it with Vietnam and we can do it again.

[cantstandbush]

76. Just think, if the Dems had raised this much hell earlier, some lives

may have been saved. There is no doubt that Bush will now use this pressure as cover to claim victory and get out as soon as the election is over in Dec, no matter what happens on the ground after that.

[dflprincess]

82. I want us out of there but

I have mixed feelings about this.

My gut reaction is they're doing it because it's an election year.

Yet, I have to wonder if cutting the number by 60,000 will leave the ones left more vulnerable? If it results in more casualties, then Bushco will use it as a "See we told you so" excuse to send even more over there. Or they'll find some other reason to up the number after the election.

Besides, Bushco saying they're pulling 60K out of Iraq, it probably means they're sending that same 60K to Syria or Iran.

[wryter2000]

6. Do you think it'll work?

I'm afraid he's going to declare victory. I want our troops home, lord knows, but I also want real hearings into how we got there to begin with. (And many other things.) None of that will happen if the repukes hold the Congress, especially the House.

Besides, I'd worry much more about the troops left in Iraq. There aren't enough now to protect each other and to try to help the Iraqis.

[cliss]

21. It may not pan out the way Bush thinks....

Bush may be scared witless about the mid-term elections next year. If recent elections are any indicator, the Repugs are about to get swept out.

So Bush, in desperation, brings 60,000 troops home. That leaves 100,000 (or so we're told). Iraq is already in chaos. What's going to happen to those who are left behind? They're going to be at much more risk. The Iraqis will see this as a "green light" to mop up the occupation, to "get rid of the last occupiers".

Stupid idiot Bush. Only he could create such a mess.

[dogfacedboy]

26. Exactly.

Bush began this mess with too few troops, and now he's going to fuck up this withdrawal somehow. This is what happens when you don't have a real plan from the start.

[goforit]

73. And now we only have massive casualties to show for it.

[Barrett808]

89. Withdrawal under fire: A very difficult maneuver to execute

Bush/Rumsfeld will screw it up.

[joeunderdog]

68. Operation Embarrass Democrats

Pull the troops out immediately--not when practical or sensibly planned--let Iraq erupt in chaos, then say "I told you so."

The press is again misreporting the Dems "Get a Plan" message, and Shrub is exploiting it. Great political mover, really. Too bad people will DIE for it.

[goforit]

74. Well, though it has bush's signature on it. Shows a flip-flopper!!!

[banana republican]

49. Too late to save his sorry ass.

If we do take control of the house he should be impeached for playing politics with the troops.

[Generator]

65. This is why I love DU

Five seconds to the succinct truth in a time of unreality and utter tripe.
But hoepfully, the people won't buy it..less troops just means to me the ones still left in Iraq are in more danger and the nightmare just goes on.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Does that mean he is a coward

or does it mean that someone in the white house has their finger out checking on the political winds. bush and his administration are evil. Our soldiers welfare is not their concern, the future of the republican party is. Evil bastards to the bone. Kill our kids for political reasons, save their lives for political reasons. I am going to try to be a real good boy because I don't want to spend eternity with republicans.

[bahrbearian]

16. "Cowards Cut and Run"

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. Yeah, except the goal was to go under 100,000 by the end of 2004

And we all know how that went.

This is pretty simple: the more troops they pull out, the more troops will be killed. They do not have the man-power to stop the insurgent networks as is. You either go up to 500,000 or you pull out completely. And these are the jagoffs that accused the Johnson administration of half-assing Vietnam? This is half-assing taken to a fucking fault.

[Ferret Annica]

67. Not necessarily more killed

but definitely there will be increased isolation from the Iraqi people as they adjust the security net to accommodate the new force size.

More Iraqis at risk for participating in the puppet government we have set up will be killed or will quit the field because we will have even a greater influence in public safety then ever before.

We need to pull out now, and to hell with how many political reputations get trampled. These are our kid's lives on the line over there.

Men and women who signed up to defend this country and protect the U.S. Constitution, not to be security providers and invaders in operations that enrich the few at the expense of many.

[alcibiades_mystery]

84. The force will be increasingly unable to protect itself

That's the Catch-22 of the whole thing. They;ve tried "not going out" and it failed. They get aggressive, and it just dampens one area for a short time. Either way, you're either putting yourself out there or you are allowing the insurgent networks to regroup and gain in sophistication. You sit at an FOB and don't patrol, you'll start taking more and more accurate indirect fire and have to deal with more lethal and more deftly concealed IEDs. Again, you either bring in 500,000 and run a mega-Phoenix Program, or you beat sand. There are no half measures at 170,000 or 100,000 that can solve the problem.

[K8-EEE]

4. UM....Are The "Cutting And Running"

How come they only use that "C&R" nonsense when the Dems ask for a plan re: gradual withdrawal of the troops?

[Cha]

7. Cause they think they own

the word game but we are turning it back in their big ugly face.

[ashling]

8. has anyone talked to Mean Jean?

[bluestateguy]

12. No, it's enlightened foreign policy statesmanship when Bush does it

If it was President John Kerry doing exactly the same thing, along the same time line, we would be subject to endless neoconservative whining and policy papers from their phony-academic think tanks lamenting that the US was "cutting and running". The Democrats are appeasers, and so on...

But when Bush does it, why, it's enlightened foreign policy statecraft, a visionary move that will strengthen democracy.

Just watch.

[Ouabache]

42. and they will pair it with 'a RESPONSIBLE withdrawl'

just watch. All of a sudden the word 'responsible' is a big meme with them and I expect it to continue. Of course they wouldn't know responsibility if it bit them in the ass, but they will catapault it as the latest propaganda meme.

[Mend]

9. what happens AFTER the 2006 elections? Do the troops go

back and then are pulled before 2008 elections?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. My guess is that those 60,000 troops will be sent into Syria...

...technically a "withdrawal" from Iraq, right?

IMHO, the NeoCons are either lying to lower the political pressure back home, or they actually intend to withdraw the 60,000 troops because the intend to use the troops elsewhere. Syria better be on their guard.

[Barkley]

36. You're right! We're going to invade somebody who can't fight back

That's why Reagan invaded Grenada in after US Marines were expelled from
Beirut.

[tatertop]

43. Looks that way to me as well

[kentuck]

11. Is he cutting and running?

Huh?

[karlrschneider]

13. Not 'cut and run', just 'nick and skip' I guess

:eyes:
:grr:

[MidwestTransplant]

14. But I thought we were going to listen to the Generals on the ground?

Hmmm I am so confused.

[cantstandbush]

78. Bush never has listened to the Gens on the ground. Only to Rummy.

That's why we are in this mess now.

[Kierkegaard]

15. Go ahead. Cut & run you cowardly, irresponsible, unpatriotic,

opportunists. How dare you undermine the morale of the troops? How dare you politicize the war for the betterment of your party?

:eyes:

[meti57b]

23. "under pressure, a weakened bush caves to the libs"

[existentialist]

35. Yes,

except, of course, without any acknowledgment of what he is doing, or why, or that anyone in his administration has made any mistakes.

[truthisfreedom]

18. well, we all have to admit, either the number has to go way up or way down

there's no other direction to go. if it was way up we might stop the insurgents more effectively. if it was way down we'd seriously reduce the number of US targets and reduce violence overall.

bush sure is flippy-floppy lately, huh? the most hated president ever, and now nobody will trust him. there's nothing that schmuck can do to save himself now.

[CountAllVotes]

19. I hope this is true!

If it is true, I am very glad for our soldiers that will be able to come home. HOWEVER WE NEED THEM ALL HOME NOW!!!!

If this just another political game, it will make me only angrier than I already am! * has already damaged himself beyond repair, the USA is not winning in Iraq and thousands have needlessly died and are maimed for life!! I will not forget this, no matter what happens.

U.S. OUT OF IRAQ! BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!!!! :patriot:

:kick:

[0007]

22. I hope it is too! But junior is such a liar, I don't have much faith

he what he sez.

[Tight_rope]

20. Good...The dumbass should have never sent the troops in the first place.

:spank:

[leftchick]

25. 100,000 is still too fucking many

but they need them for the enduring bases and the embassy.

[fshrink]

27. This is temporary spin.

In the XMas spirit probably. A little dose of morphine.

[Hyernel]

28. Operation Guard Baghdad and the Oil...

Let everything else go to the insurgency.

I imagine the rate of U.S. Casualties will increase dramatically, as the insurgents will have more freedom of operations in the countryside.

This war is lost.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. The only thing "clearly going to come down" is Bush's numbers

And they can't stop it.

[rpannier]

31. How dare he cut and run

Major Bbup will be outraged. Where is Representative Schmidt to berate him on this cowardly action?

[salin]

32. Two things: Secret war (Cambodia) and war by private contractors

I won't believe it until I really see it, and read about it repeatedly in the international press.

[spanone]

33. and you can bet it will be timed to maximize political gain.

Not because of the loss of lives, but because of the political pressure. Shameless once again.

[wookie294]

34. Hillary says we can't withdraw troops

Hillary is more right wing than Bush. Wow.

[Disturbed]

38. 100K will stay to gaurd Amerika's oil.

"The terrorists want to control the oil. Our way of life will be at risk". George W. Bush (Nov. 2005)

[A Simple Game]

39. I was thinking the same thing.

We now know the minimum required to guard the wells and pipelines.

[NeoConsSuck]

40. Close.. but I don't think you're correct..

it's not America's oil, it's American Corporations oil.

The goal was not to assure a steady stream of oil to Americans, it was to assure a steady stream of oil to Exxon, Sunoco, Valero etc..

[louis-t]

69. Sunoco buys Venezuelan oil.

[Clara T]

37. Many will be relocated

to Western Africa to protect new energy routes in this region. Many reserves will come home. Many will stay on at one of the 12-14 permanent bases and serve as protection and coordination and advisory services etc.

Increase in so-called Iraqi forces at front lines and increase in mercenaries for special ops.

[Disturbed]

41. "it's not America's oil, it's American Corporations oil."

Of course.


"The terrorists want to control the oil. Our way of life will be at risk". George W. Bush (Nov. 2005)

[banana republican]

* is doing a Nixon

Nixon delayed withdrawal from Viet Nam so he could win his second term.

Then when the shit hit the fan he proposed a withdrawal.

as best as I can remember.

We are being NIXONED here.....

[banana republican]

44. dup deleted

[TomClash]

45. Vietnamization is working!

Oops, wrong war. Or is it? Wait - this one has a lot of sand and not a lot of jungle.

:sarcasm:

[VLenin]

46. noncommital

So troops are moved to Kuwait.

There are many ifs involved.

[meganmonkey]

48. I'll believe it when I see it

Just like everything else this maladministration says

:shrug:

[sabra]

50. U.S. already planning Iraq pullout, lawmakers say

http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=IRAQ-TROOPS-11-25-05

U.S. already planning Iraq pullout, lawmakers say

WASHINGTON -- Amid raucous debate in Congress about an exit strategy from Iraq, U.S. commanders on the ground have already launched plans to close bases and withdraw troops in the coming year, according to two congressmen who returned from Iraq this week.

"They wouldn't put a hard date on it, but clearly the planning is at a very mature level," Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., said. "We can shrink down the number of bases as we shrink down the number of Americans."

Rep. Mark Kennedy, R-Minn., who was with Kline in Iraq, said that in some places the turnover is already in progress. "They have a planned turnover process where American troops have already pulled back from some of the smaller bases."

...

Responding to growing public dissatisfaction with the war, Democrats and Republicans in Congress are eager to see a downtick in the U.S. presence in Iraq, particularly as the 2006 congressional elections get closer.

[babylonsister]

51. Talk about sending mixed messages; who to believe? nt

[global1]

52. Of Course They Would Say This Because It Makes It Look Like....

this plan was in place before the Murtha speech. They want to make it look like it was a *Co and Repug idea and not that they are being forced into it by the Dems, Cindy and precipitously falling poll numbers for * and hence the Repug party.

[sabra]

53. ding ding ding. right on the money.

Murtha et al burst their bubble.

[rocktivity]

54. Well, you know what they say about best-laid plans

of mice and men--don't be surprised if they end up getting laid to waste.

:headbang:
rocknation

[cmutt]

55. an '06 ploy?

It doesn't take a Karl Rove to read the polls: the war is vastly unpopular & the large majority of the public wants their troops home. Elections are next year. IMO, it would be more surprising if a plan wasn't being bantered about.

[Southsideirish]

61. Bingo!! "Give "cmutt" in the balcony a silver dollar!" n/t

[Up2Late]

56. Let me know when a Democrat says this, I don't believe anything...

...Republicans, especially Congressional Republican's, say regarding anything, especially when the Subject is "Making Progress in Iraq."

Then again, they never told us about the death of Osama bin Laden, so I'm sure they will try to "Cut and Run" as they like to say, without the American public knowing about it.

[TheCowsCameHome]

57. BS - There was no talk until John Murtha stood up for America

Don't let the repugs make you think they had a plan - for anything.

[karynnj]

58. True - look at what they said when it was Feingold, Kennedy or Kerry

talking about exit plans. (Apologies to any other people articulating plans before Murtha)

Murtha was the first they couldn't dismiss as a liberal peacenik. They even weren't happy with Hagel saying he thought the war was becoming Vietnam.

[mzmolly]

59. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

:eyes:

[truth2power]

60. Of course they're on their way out. As soon as

the Production Sharing Agreements (PSAs) go into effect, we'll be outta there. Mission accomplished! That's what it was all about from the beginning. Then, on to another invasion: Iran, Syria etc.

We're all rejoicing because everyone is talking about withdrawal. Seems like the tide has turned. The MSM and Dems in Congress have grown a spine. Uhm....sure..

That Congress is "responding to the growing public dissatisfaction with the war" is total BS. The PTB have dropped the dime: Time to get out because global corporations will soon have secured the oil resources of the Iraqi people for the next 40+ years with unbreakable contracts.

Everything is going according to plan. Nothing has changed. That American withdrawal means fewer troops killed is a good thing for us. But the Iraqi people will have had their wealth stolen for the forseeable future.

[54anickel]

62. Don't change the subject!

They just got everyone heated up and talking about how and when we are getting out and OFF of that nasty subject about how and why we went in there in the first place.

The new mouth piece Jean Schmidt made that perfectly clear in her latest schpeel. (They've got her making hay while the limelight shines ya know.) It's OK to debate how we're gonna get out, but there shouldn't be any debate on how we got in. (paraphrasing)

[Peace Patriot]

63. Contrary to reports--and the opinions of some DUers--the American

people are not stupid ("sheeple"). They know this is crap. They've been against the Iraq war since before the invasion (58%, Feb. '03). But they cannot get their will enforced. The one thing they've been stupid about--because it happened so fast, and completely under the radar--is Bushite corporations (Diebold and ES&S) gaining control of the vote tabulation with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, and no paper trail in a third of the nation, and wholly inadequate audit/recount procedures everywhere else.

The will of the vast majority of Americans--peace-loving, justice-loving, ethical, law-abiding progressives--has been thwarted.

And until we rid of oursevles of Diebold and ES&S election theft machines, we are going to continue getting nothing but more lies, thievery, coverup, collusion and death.

[daleo]

64. A short drawdown for U.S. election purposes.

But, the Iraqi puppet government wouldn't last a month on their own, so this is just a Bush ploy.

[catmandu57]

66. It'sa sleight of hand

They increased troop numbers to cover these phoney elections, now next month they'll pull out the troops inserted temporarily and call ot a draw down.
Many of these troops are on their third tour, their equipment has been beat to hell, new stuff isn't coming, mark my words this too will fall to pieces and turn to shit just like everything else our most glorius fuhrer has touched.

[leftchick]

75. Thank You Thank You Thank You!

they bumped up the numbers in Iraq over 35,000 this year for all of those "benchmarks". They will draw down 30,000 and send the rest to Kuwait leaving over 100,00 STILL to be sitting ducks in Iraq. WTF is the diff?!? We are still in a fucking endless quagmire!!!

:banghead:

[DemCam]

70. The better to attack Iran, m'dear.

Why, oh why, do I not trust this bunch to do the right thing...ever?!

[Westpark1]

71. Just a PR game to save them in 06'.....

Dubya just wants to keep his majority in 06. That's why this is happening. If there wasn't so much strong opposition towards the war he'd have brought the draft back by now and also invaded Syria and Iran for the neocons favor.

[goforit]

72. Bottom line the GOP has exposed their inept weakness all around.

They have destroyed America here and abroad!!

[Marr]

77. Didn't they increase the number of soldiers not too long ago?

I remember hearing talk a couple months ago here on DU about the Republcans setting up a rather transparent shell game with the troop numbers in Iraq, specifically to prepare for the 2006 elections. I don't have any links saved here unfortunately, but if I recall correctly, it had to do with troops that were going to be coming home anyway at that time, and others being rotated in to replace them.

It reminded me of jacking up gas prices by $3 so you can make a big deal about reducing gas prices by $2. That sort of thing.

Anyway, I don't think the Bush Admin. will *ever* willingly pull out of Iraq. You have to look at this from their perspective. To somebody like Dick Cheney, the occupation is a huge success. Money is being funneled straight into Halliburton by the boat load and US corporations have control of Iraq's oil (doesn't matter whether they can actually pump it out or not- they have US boots all over it and so they control it).

They don't give a shit about public opinion, really. They want to keep the GOP from losing Congress in '06 so they can avoid impeachment, but they will *not* give up their corpo/imperialist colony. Never.

[0007]

81. They do this with a straight face too!

Jacking up gas prices to $3 then make they a big deal about reducing the prices two buck a gallon and then tell ya that Six dollar gas is right around the corner.

Repuke go to Iraq and come back with wonderful stories and how happy the Iraqis are, then the Democratic leaders go over and find that everything is a cluster fuck and Halliburton can't steal fast enough while the Carlyle Group has their stocks going out of sight with defense contracts.

[stepnw1f]

79. Operation Kiss Lefty Bumb Bumb

That's right RIGHTARDS!

[tblue37]

80. Why does she hate America?

[lovuian]

83. This is a Nixon trick this is to placate the people!!!

Michael Moore predicted this!!!

[Wind Dancer]

86. Exactly!

Richard Nixon:
Address to the Nation
on the Situation in Southeast Asia
April 30, 1970

Good evening my fellow Americans:

Ten days ago, in my report to the Nation on Vietnam, I announced a decision to withdraw an additional 150,000 Americans from Vietnam over the next year. I said then that I was making that decision despite our concern over increased enemy activity in Laos, in Cambodia, and in South Vietnam.

-snip-


For the lives of American men are involved. The opportunity for 150,000 Americans to come home in the next 12 months is involved. The future of 18 million people in South Vietnam and 7 million people in Cambodia is involved. The possibility of winning a just peace in Vietnam and in the Pacific is at stake.

It is customary to conclude a speech from the White House by asking support for the President of the United States. Tonight, I depart from that precedent. What I ask is far more important. I ask for your support for our brave men fighting tonight halfway around the world - not for territory - not for glory but so that their younger brothers and their sons anti your sons can have a chance to grow up in a world of peace and freedom and justice.

http://www.edwebproject.org/sideshow/resources/nixon.430speech.html

[devinsgram]

85. Sorry, but I'll believe when I see it.

This is just like the money he promised to help fight aides. The only reason he is saying this is to try and appease his critics, but in the end it won't happen.

[Mz Pip]

87. Flip flop

flip flop

Or just plain flop.

He'll declare victory and leave. Just like Nixon did.

The next step would be for him to resign in disgrace like nixon did.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Orangepeel]

88. These must be the 60,000 *not* guarding the oil

Seriously, it is great that they feel forced to announce this. Let's hope they feel forced to actually bring these 60,000 and then the rest soon.

[bhuddaboy]

90. All Or Nothing

Either they all come home now or forget it. Diminishing their numbers just makes the ones left behind more vulnerable to attacks.

[Up2Late]

91. White House lays foundation for US troop withdrawal (AFP)

(I think a better headline would be "WH to take credit for Senate Democrats Plan")

White House lays foundation for US troop withdrawal

27/11/2005 19h20

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House for the first time has claimed possession of an Iraq withdrawal plan, arguing that a troop pullout blueprint unveiled this past week by a Democratic senator was "remarkably similar" to its own. It also signaled its acceptance of a recent US Senate amendment designed to pave the way for a phased US military withdrawal from the violence-torn country.

The statement late Saturday by White House spokesman Scott McClellan came in response to a commentary published in The Washington Post by Joseph Biden, the top Democrat of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in which he said US forces will begin leaving Iraq next year "in large numbers." According to Biden, the United States will move about 50,000 servicemen out of the country by the end of 2006, and "a significant number" of the remaining 100,000 the year after.

The blueprint also calls for leaving only an unspecified "small force" either in Iraq or across the border to strike at concentrations of insurgents, if necessary.

In the White House statement, which was released under the headline "Senator Biden Adopts Key Portions Of Administration's Plan For Victory In Iraq," McClellan said the administration of President George W. Bush welcomed Biden's voice in the debate. "Today, Senator Biden described a plan remarkably similar to the administration's plan to fight and win the war on terror," the spokesman went on to say.

<http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/051127192003.lac9unmy.html>
(more at link above)

[mike_c]

92. they're lying, as usual....

Spin 'till you drop. America will NEVER leave Iraq as long as the PNAC and their enablers hold power. Mark my words. This is a smokescreen, and nothing more.

[chelsea0011]

93. Oil baby. They ain't leaving until the job is finished or never...

whatever comes first.

[tuvor]

94. I guess "stay the course" isn't test marketing very well anymore

[Writer]

95. LOL Karl, is this another one of your "brilliant" strategies?

I shake my head. You really think this will "change the tide," Piggly? Why you tryin' to be so wiggly?

If it's reducing the rate of casualties, it's too late.

If you're trying to change the topic to something more beneficial to the GOP, it's too late.

If you're trying set up the Democrats somehow by spinning conventional wisdom to make everyone believe that they supported this war all along (CW: People naturally will assume that Democrats have always been against a war started by Republicans) then try again. People will empathize with the Democrats, because they think Dems were just as bamboozled as they were.

Here's the rub, my Piggly Wiggly in a poke: You're fucked. And you're arrogant enough to think that your alleged "brilliance" will pull you out of this mess.

Oh, and your party's fucked, too. If you really wanted to pull a "fast one" on that Murtha bill, you should have had your GOP House monkeys vote FOR immediate troop withdrawal. That way, you can claim in '06 that your party is doing the "right thing" by way of the American people.

Karl, you have got to be the biggest balloon ever to be popped. What an absolute fakery of a genius you are. But the American people are catching onto you, as they are catching on to Bush.

Go find some slop to roll in.