AP: Rove, Libby discussed reporter info

[Newsjock]

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/breaking_news/12945036.htm

JOHN SOLOMON
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Top White House aides Karl Rove and I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby discussed their contacts with reporters about an undercover CIA officer in the days before her identity was published, the first known intersection between two central figures in the criminal leak investigation.

Rove told grand jurors it was possible he first heard in the White House that Valerie Plame, wife of Bush administration Joseph Wilson, worked for the CIA from Libby's recounting of a conversation with a journalist, according to people familiar with his testimony.

They said Rove testified that his discussions with Libby before Plame's CIA cover was blown were limited to information reporters had passed to them. Some evidence prosecutors have gathered conflicts with Libby's account.

... The Rove-Libby contacts were confirmed to The Associated Press by people directly familiar with testimony the two witnesses gave before the grand jury. All spoke on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of the proceedings.

more

[quaoar]

1. Rove and Libby ratting each other out?

Sweet.

[Kahuna]

16. Ditto that, Batman!

:popcorn:

[bj2110]

31. I don't like this at all. Sounds to me like pure spin - as if neither Rove

nor Libby had firsthand knowledge, and that it came from an outside source. Could be used to paint the leak back to the CIA. Some "disgruntled" agent that was pissed that this outsider Wilson got such a worthy assignment.

[mirandapriestly]

50. yeah, that's what I thought, darn nt

[Athame]

66. Same MO as with the yellowcake info

that ** used in his State of the Union, when he said "British intelligence says that Saddam is trying to buy nukular material from Africa." When the British got the info from the US, who knew it was shoddy in the first place. :crazy:

[Roland99]

41. Or the "flippers" are talking about it.

[Kagemusha]

2. Ouch.

"I'm not sure any laws were violated, but if they were... HE DID IT." Right?

Ouch.

Because if Rove was not properly cleared to receive that information then well... Libby could qualify for the covert ID leak law, right?

Edit: For leaking. To ROVE.

[Cocoa]

3. sounds like a conspiracy

:tinfoilhat:

[Patsy Stone]

4. I love a good link between the two main characters

it moves the plot along so quickly.

What did Libby tell them they talked about? Inquiring minds want to know!

[madmark]

5. If the story is they first got the info from Miller or Cooper, or some

other journalist, then they can take the position that information was already known outside the government and therefore not subject to any restrictions. I do not know that these are prosecution friendly facts.

[Halliburton]

6. of course

that's why Luskin leaked them.

[madmark]

9. That's probably it

[htuttle]

11. If the information was already known outside of government...

...it is STILL classified, and those with clearance are REQUIRED to neither confirm or deny it's authenticity. They would still be liable for prosecution under the espionage laws in this case.

But I highly doubt they 'heard it from a reporter'.

[Halliburton]

14. yeah

Rove is trying to exonerate himself by saying that Scooter heard it from reporters and passed it onto him.

[politick]

86. But who

passed it on to them, and why did they have to pass it on to Judy, Matt and Bob?

[cassiepriam]

15. I think that is going to be their defense, but I think it is lame.

Essentially they are gonna blame the press for everything.
The press did the leak, the press gave us bad info, the press made
us go to war. Bad naughty press.

[Carolab]

39. Hence the pressure for the "shield law" protecting "sources". n/t

[cassiepriam]

69. The best criminals don't break the law, they make the laws.

[Straight Shooter]

12. That defense got buried in the dust a long time ago

If that were true, they should have come clean a long time ago. They didn't. Therefore, that argument makes for an extremely weak defense. Rove has been called in to testify before the GJ four times by Fitzgerald. Rove is in a position of weakness, not of strength, no matter how much his apologists may want to spin it.

Note: I'm not calling you a Rove apologist :hi:

[Patsy Stone]

38. This seems like Karl's sticky wicket.

"On July 9, 2003, Novak told him he was writing a column that would report that Plame worked for the CIA, and Rove told the columnist he had heard similar information, according to his testimony."

I'm not lawyer, but you know, right there, that's a problem for me. Even if KKKarl wasn't the source, he shouldn't be the second source either. Let's add Scooter not knowing if Judy had double-secret clearance before sharing some classified documents, and I think we may have something.

[ClintonTyree]

67. Which brings back my original complaint........

why the hell is Novak not going to swing for this? So Novak just happened to have this knowledge, he must have read it on shit house wall or something, and told poor innocent KKKarl about it. KKKarl confirmed it, though he wasn't cleared to know that information, and Novak wrote his "exclusive" story outing a covert CIA Agent.
WHY is Novak getting a pass? That crusty, drooling, doddering old fool should be strung up as well. He knew exactly what he was doing, playing right into the hands of his neo-con masters.
Novak is a national disgrace and if I'm ever in his presence I will spit upon him, guaranteed.

[cassiepriam]

13. Doesn't matter who they head it from? Doesn't the law prevent them

as fed employees from leaking info? Doesn't matter if other non feds have leaked it first?

[Carolab]

40. Yes, they are supposed to plead ignorance.

Even if "someone" in the press or otherwise outed her to them, it's part of their jobs to deny it. An NOC is to be protected at all costs.

[cassiepriam]

70. yes.

[Scout1071]

21. I disagree. I believe it is also illegal to confirm any top secret

information. It's the same as outright telling in the eyes of the law I believe. Even if someone brought it to them. Which they didn't. They found a way to feed it to Miller (paging John Bolton), who helped pass it along and they confirmed when the reporters called.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. Who says they're facts?

Oh, that's right. The suspected perpetrators and their lawyers.

That's rock solid then...:eyes:

[janx]

79. They're not facts.

They're just more speculation and spin. The spin about their getting the information from reporters is already out there, full-bore, in right-wing circles. ;-)

[0007]

84. The information wasn't obtained from the local library!

[SpiralHawk]

7. Rove Vs.Libby

Catapulting propaganda hither and yon -- and at each other.

Perfectly lovely.

[Halliburton]

8. well it looks like Rove's still lying

If Rove said he just heard it from Scooter, he'd be in deep trouble. So he says that Libby also heard it from a journalist and then passed the information onto him, therefore it was common knowledge.

[FormerRepublican]

10. Sounds to me like they discussed how best to further the plot...

...without getting caught and prosecuted.

I have no doubt they discussed the fact that leaking to the press would make it very difficult for the press to reveal them as sources. They're traitors, but not stupid.

Rove is trying to make himself look innocent by pinning the blame on Libby. Of course, his story doesn't explain why he then passed the info along to more press. It also doesn't explain why Rove lied to the Grand Jury about having talked to the press (which is an indicator that he KNEW what he was doing was illegal).

IMO, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. Just more spin and not much truth.

[katty]

17. game of 'telephone', he said, no, he said, no he said....LIARS

[struggle4progress]

18. Has Libby written Karl one of his famous love letters yet?

:D

[dalloway]

23. LOL

:rofl:

[Malva Zebrina]

19. If Judy Miller is the "press" then surely an investigation into her

input is in order. It is possible that Judy Miller, well connected with the WHIG and who knows who else, deliberately leaked the information to the WHIG, being essentially a "charter memeber" of such group. Judy is connected to Chalabi. Chalabi most likely was her source--although I am sure she did not pursue any other sources but Chalabi, She was on a roll with Chalabi and it just happens that the Pentagon , newly formed intelligence bureau that was to circumvent the CIA intelligence, was also relying upon the crook Chalabie for their sexed up intelligence information. and Chalabi saw to it that he passed off intelligence that would support an invasion of Iraq, even if he had to lied repeatedly.

Miller was a part of the conspiracy. There is no doubt in my mind.

There is something that is hidden in Judy Miller's contacts and in the apparent support she gets from Sulzberger and Keller who are willing to sacrifice the reputation of their NYT for this war enabler whore, whose reporting has been absolutely based upon lies ---for months at a time, and those lies just happen to coincide with the lies of the Bush regime and the WHIG

[Generator]

20. Even though I read everything on this

I'm growing weary of the leak of the leak of the leak of the version of the leak rumored to be leaked of the leak of the leak of THE LEAK.

Indict already. My brain is numb. (patience grasshopper. I have none)

[Wordie]

25. LOL...you're sure not the only one!

I woke up in the middle of the night last night and felt compelled to turn on the tv to CNN, just to make sure there wasn't anything I had missed! LOL! (When I finally really was awake, I realized how ridiculous that was and went back to sleep, comforted that the channel was already set to CNN for when I woke up in the morning.)

This better happen soon, because many of us just can't take much more of this!

[Athame]

60. Same here!

Only I woke up at least twice and turned on DU, even though I am on the left coast and knew very well that it was the wee hours in DC. Then at 6:30 here I raced to the TV to see if there were any frogs marching.... :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

This thing is wearing me out!

[GDoyle]

22. Raw Story

Raw Story has added this to their main page:

"More coming tomorrow in leak case... Late ..."

They will break Friday indictments late tomorrow night maybe?

GDoyle

[DesertRat]

27. I hope so

The suspense is killing me! :bounce:

[bj2110]

32. Daily News is supposedly working another story on this tomorrow as well.

[Vinca]

71. Or a resignation . . . perhaps? Dare we think Cheney?? nt

[Merlot]

76. ...for "health" reasons...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Denouement.

?

[Cha]

56. Can't wait for

it!

[Pithy Cherub]

26. Rove is thowing public punches at Libby?

Who has more to lose right now? :shrug: Tossup in the Bush Indictment Sweepstakes. But the end result is they won't be picnicing together anytime soon where there are aspens and connected roots.

[confludemocrat]

28. This attempts to hang Libby out there, doesn't it?

"What, a reporter told you what? That Wilsons wife is CIA? Hmm well that's interesting that a reporter is passing that around. What a coincidence, since we don't like him."
Yeah right, Reporters did it. So supposedly we are supposed to ignore the fact that Robert Novak said gvt official(s) told him.

So Libby was hearing this from reporters and passing it on and maybe some mysterious gvt official passed it on to Novak. And so Rove heard it third hand and so it was Libby who was trafficking in classified information?. That's their story? Should be an interesting trial.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

29. Falling like a house of cards

First Drunky McPukeshoes then Tubby McTreason

:popcorn:

[truthisfreedom]

30. i bet Fitzgerald is irritated by these leaks. i'd prefer to hear nothing

more until he reads off the indictments.

[shraby]

33. Fitzgerald looked angry after interviewing Rove

the other day. There were pics of him leaving the courthouse. It was a combination of angry/disgusted look.

[hickman1937]

34. so "people directly familiar with testimony..." etc, are leaking

info to The Associated Press?:rofl: :popcorn:

[janx]

80. The only identification of these "leakers" that I've seen so

far is that they're "defense lawyers." That ought to tell us something. ;-) :rofl:

[Carolab]

35. Rove would sell out his own mother.

Wonder what Libby will do?

[kurth]

36. Pinky and The Brain

always trying to take over the world... soon to be cellmates.

[IndianaGreen]

37. "Rep. John Conyers: When Was the President Told?"

Rep. John Conyers
1 hour, 41 minutes ago

Today’s New York Daily News reports that “n angry President Bush rebuked chief political guru Karl Rove two years ago for his role in the Valerie Plame affair..” and that Rove conceded to Bush that “he had talked to the press about the Plame leak.”

Yet, just last year on June 11, 2004, the President responded affirmatively when asked if he would “fire anyone found to” have leaked the agent’s name.

And White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said “If someone in the administration, anywhere in the administration, leaked classified information, we want to know who it is. The President has always made it clear that the leaking of classified information is a very serious matter.” (October 2, 2003)

And this: “The President -- no one wants to get to the bottom of this more than the President of the United States. And the sooner the better.” (October 7, 2003)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20051019/cm_huffpost/009137

[99Pancakes]

52. Oh, I grow weary of all this.

We KNOW that it was a conspiracy. We KNOW they are all pawns of Lucifer and partners in The Dark. That's what makes this waiting came so hideous.

Hey! Maybe Karl Rove is really Valerie Plame! There's something new to leak.

[Pirate Smile]

42. WP: Rove Told Jury Libby May Have Been His Source In Leak Case

Rove Told Jury Libby May Have Been His Source In Leak Case
Top Aides Talked Before Plame's Name Was Public

By Jim VandeHei and Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 20, 2005; Page A01

White House adviser Karl Rove told the grand jury in the CIA leak case that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, may have told him that CIA operative Valerie Plame worked for the intelligence agency before her identity was revealed, a source familiar with Rove's account said yesterday.

In a talk that took place in the days before Plame's CIA employment was revealed, Rove and Libby discussed conversations they had had with reporters in which Plame and her marriage to Iraq war critic Joseph C. Wilson IV were raised, the source said. Rove told the grand jury the talk was confined to information the two men heard from reporters, the source said.

Rove has also testified that he also heard about Plame from someone else outside the White House, but could not recall who.

The account is the first time a person familiar with Rove's testimony has provided clues about where the deputy chief of staff learned about Plame, and confirmed that Rove and Libby were involved in a conversation about her before her identity became public. This further undermines the White House's contention early in the case that neither man was involved in leaking her identity to the media.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/19/AR2005101902431.html

[AussieDave]

43. Oh dear - are they now turning on each other, for a better "deal" ??

Whne the cannibalizing REALLY starts, it ain't gonna be pretty.......

[texpatriot2004]

44. Uh-Oh another article that says they knew. n.t

[Pirate Smile]

47. It gives more information on Hannah:

"John Hannah, an aide to Vice President Cheney and one of two dozen people questioned in the CIA leak case, has told friends in recent months he is worried he may be implicated by the investigation, according to two U.S. officials.

It is not clear whether Hannah had any role in unmasking of Plame, or why he should fear Fitzgerald's probe. But the eleventh hour emergence of another possible target speaks to a larger truth about the secretive investigation: Fitzgerald has cast his net so widely over the past two years that it is impossible to know who, if anyone, it might ensnare.

Fitzgerald and his team have interviewed or taken before the grand jury at least two dozen officials or staffers from the White House, the vice president's office, the State Department and the CIA, according to people involved in the case.

-snip-
The new information about Hannah signals how broadly the prosecutor has probed for answers. As Cheney's deputy national security adviser, he was intimately involved in Iraq policy.

[crispini]

45. Jim VandeHei has been consistently giving us the goods on this story.

Yep. :thumbsup:

[Pirate Smile]

48. You gotta love this:

"One person in the probe said Fitzgerald showed considerable early interest in the White House Iraq Group, a task force created by Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. in August 2002 and charged with "marketing" the war in Iraq to the public.

The group met weekly in the Situation Room. Its regular participants were Rove, Libby, Hadley, then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, adviser Karen Hughes, Matalin, and White House director of legislative affairs Nicholas Calio.

The special prosecutor has talked to a number of Foggy Bottom officials about the State Department memo, drafted about a month before Plame's identity was disclosed. Fitzgerald has questioned Powell about his knowledge of the document, according to people familiar with the case.

Former CIA Director George J. Tenet and Deputy Director John E. McLaughlin, were both interviewed by prosecutors. Bill Harlow, CIA public affairs director, went before the grand jury and was questioned about a conversation he had with Novak before Novak's column appeared. Sources said he was contacted by Novak about the Plame information and told Novak not to publish Plame's name or information about her."

[grasswire]

49. charge them all

Let justice roll down.

[Patsy Stone]

55. I was about to post just that.

"One person in the probe said Fitzgerald showed considerable early interest in the White House Iraq Group, a task force created by Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. in August 2002 and charged with "marketing" the war in Iraq to the public."


Had it ready to hit "Ctrl-V" and everything. :toast:

[rodeodance]

59. Novak appears to be the good guy in this scenario.

.....Former CIA Director George J. Tenet and Deputy Director John E. McLaughlin, were both interviewed by prosecutors. Bill Harlow, CIA public affairs director, went before the grand jury and was questioned about a conversation he had with Novak before Novak's column appeared. Sources said he was contacted by Novak about the Plame information and told Novak not to publish Plame's name or information about her."

[Carolab]

51. I know. He's like the new "Bernstein", only Dutch. n/t

[calimary]

57. Well, perhaps. But I'm not sure VandeHei is really on this as much.

I saw him on Olbermann a few weeks ago, on the same show on which they also had the "bush's Brain" author. He took issue with the whole matter of rove forgetting where he heard such-and-such and pointed out that this was the guy who could recall precinct vote counts from local elections in Texas back in the early 1980's, so the very idea that rove could "forget" somebody he talked to in one of his big smear projects seemed - shall we say - preposterous. VandeHei, on the other hand, seemed too willing to take whatever rove had said at face value, even excusing that - well, a guy like kkkarl rove talks to lots of people so it's certainly understandable that he might have forgotten something...

Yeah. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE.

I'm afraid that, ever since then, I've taken what VandeHei reports with just a wee grain of salt. I mean, SURELY people in the Washington media have heard or know enough about rove by now. SURELY some of these people tasked to work on this story have researched rove a little bit to know what they're dealing with, and SURELY the book "bush's Brain" and its contents are sufficiently well-known by now that it would inform and enlighten whatever coverage of rove was undertaken. File it under "deep background." I watched him and I wasn't that impressed. For all we know VandeHei may still be on the reservation. We'll see how much he digs into this, and how much of actual value he finds.

[Carolab]

58. I tried to find some biographical info on him but came up empty.

Do you know about his background?

[UTUSN]

46. Ha-HAH! n/t

[Beetwasher]

73. ROVE'S LAWYER IS BEHIND THIS LEAK GUARANTEED

The long knives are out and slicing away!

What a fucking trainwreck!

[nookiemonster]

78. LOL. May I provide a visual aid?

:)

[Roland99]

54. If true...a minimum of perjury for Rove. But...

this smells almost of a way to spin Rove out of trouble.

Check this out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5106168#5106229

;)

[TacticalPeek]

61. Top Aides Talked Before Plame's Name Was Public

Rove Told Jury Libby May Have Been His Source In Leak Case
Top Aides Talked Before Plame's Name Was Public

By Jim VandeHei and Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, October 20, 2005; Page A01

White House adviser Karl Rove told the grand jury in the CIA leak case that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, may have told him that CIA operative Valerie Plame worked for the intelligence agency before her identity was revealed, a source familiar with Rove's account said yesterday.

In a talk that took place in the days before Plame's CIA employment was revealed, Rove and Libby discussed conversations they had had with reporters in which Plame and her marriage to Iraq war critic Joseph C. Wilson IV were raised, the source said. Rove told the grand jury the talk was confined to information the two men heard from reporters, the source said.

Rove has also testified that he also heard about Plame from someone else outside the White House, but could not recall who.

The account is the first time a person familiar with Rove's testimony has provided clues about where the deputy chief of staff learned about Plame, and confirmed that Rove and Libby were involved in a conversation about her before her identity became public. This further undermines the White House's contention early in the case that neither man was involved in leaking her identity to the media.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/19/AR2005101902431.html

[Roland99]

62. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1863000&mesg_id=1863000

[Patsy Stone]

63. Yes, but

this is the WaPo story, not only the AP story.

[Roland99]

64. I don't believe that matters. WaPo story locked >>>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1863579

[Patsy Stone]

65. Ah, my bad.

I didn't know it was a dupe of a dupe. :)

[hiabrill]

68. Finally a link and proof of a conspiracy..

Since the two top White House aides were working together to out the CIA agent, surely both Cheney & Bush were fully aware...


With this leak, I say Bush (The White House) is trying to hold on to Rove, but it's not going to work. Rove failed to mention his discussion on Palme with Matt Copper. He should be served an indictment for that alone.


Libby initiated the call to Russert and Judith Miller of The New York Times.

The Rove initiated the call to Matt Cooper of Time magazine and Novak.

[Karmakaze]

72. I thought I'd put this here...

even though it is a little off topic. You know how many of the Freepers say that Plame was not a covert agent, by the definition in the IIPA - an agent whose intelligence relationship to the government was classified AND who had served overseas in the last 5 years...

Well, I just realised there is a simple answer to that, even if Plame herself was NOT a covert agent by the IIPA. Plame worked for a CIA front organisation that was still in use at the time of her outing, AND it would have had some people serving overseas at that time.

By outing Plame, the leakers also outed the front organisation, and every agent working for it. So it may be that Plame's outing may not be considered a indictable offense under IIPA, but the outing of all the OTHER agents working for that front organisation will be.

Remember the law says nothing about naming a person, it merely says "information that identifies a covert agent" - such information surely would include the fact that an organisation is a CIA front, and thus identifies every agent working there.

[Beetwasher]

74. Can You Say CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT TREASON?!?!

Yeah, I thought you could!

[McKenzie]

75. Rove Told Jury Libby May Have Been His Source WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/19/AR2005101902431_pf.html

[robbedvoter]

77. WaPo, AP bats for Cheney. Libby, NYT for Rove, W

In the end, we'll have all the rats out in the light.

[confludemocrat]

81. This portion of the WP story has conspiracy written all over it:

"Cooper, after receiving permission from sources, testified before the grand jury and later said publicly that Rove and Libby had talked to him about Plame. But other reporters were contacted by other White House officials about Plame during the crucial week in July 2003 after Wilson's views became public, according to government officials and people involved in the case.

This leaves open the possibility of a broader leak campaign. In September of 2003, a senior administration official told The Post that at least six journalists were contacted about Plame by two top White House officials."

Hence, the wide net and hence the disquiet and gloom in the white house, a number of people will at least go on trial for conspiracy and many will additionally be charged with obstruction of justice.

[DoYouEverWonder]

82. Why was outing Plame such a big deal

that so many key people would be involved? This had a lot more to do with shutting down Brewster Jennings, then it did with making Wilson look bad.

[Carolab]

83. Absolutely. n/t

[confludemocrat]

85. Brewster Jennings? what's that? n/t

[faithnotgreed]

87. there is lots of information around on brewster jennings

but the basic answer is that they were the cia front company that valerie plame "worked" for

by outing this company (and ms plame) the repercussions were many as you well can imagine

extra information you likely already know:
among other scenarios this information becoming public would prompt any foreign intelligence agency to immediately review their dealings with plame/brewster jennings and any other related contacts (which then involves untold other people and contacts) thus assuring many people were placed in considerable danger
which all relates back to valerie plame and not only her outing but her position with brewster jennings

there is debate as to how many have paid with their lives but suffice it to say it was among the more nefarious/treasonous deeds this cabal is responsible for

and thats not even to mention the work that these agents had been involved in - wmds

so that is likely why the cabal really wanted plame and brewster jennings out of the way

[Kenneth ken]

88. the CIA front company

Plame 'worked' for. They did a lot of covert WMD monitoring outside the US. There is another theory that postulates the Bush* maldaministration wanted to shut down Brewster Jennings so they could plant WMDs in Iraq after the invasion. It is also speculated that an attempt to plant was made but stymied.

That's all I've got off the top of my head.