CNN: All soldiers sent to Iraq will be staying for one year tours now

[NNN0LHI]

Just reporting. No link yet.

Don

[lanlady]

1. they said it wasn't confirmed yet

but they're hearing it from Pentagon officials.

[Warren Stuart]

2. Just like Vietnam

Would you like fries with that quagmire Mr. Rumsfeld?

[saigon68]

23. I LOVE IT !!!!!!!!

Wow ----365 and a Wake-up

SLOPES AND ZIPPER-HEADS

365 and a BAG DRAG

FIGMO

SHORT TIME CALENDARS!!!!!

Coming Next Kiddies---- the DRAFT !!!!!!!!!

and to think---- at age 58 I THOUGHT I SAW IT ALL

:-), :-)

OH YES I FORGOT

the bodybags :-(, :-(

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qandnotq]

26. sarcasm

do you know what this word means?

[Walt Starr]

27. I think the post was sarcasm

Reminiscing about what he saw in 'Nam.

Realizing that we are now in Iraqnam.

And seeing the kids today will have all of those wonderful (NOT) memories he suffers with has made him LOVE IT (dripping with sarcasm).

At least, that was my take on his post, I could be wrong.

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. Well, As Long As It Makes Kids Like Me Involved In The Political Process

Someone tell me how that draft lottery worked again

[UpInArms]

39. birthday - birthdate - your number scrolls across the bottom

of the television screen - you go away - you may not come back - odds not even good

:(

this is tragic - worse than tragic - not one life will be untouched - not one day will be unmarred - there will be generations bleeding from their souls for the rotten war-mongering liars that have wrought their unholy handiwork across the globe.

[chadm]

58. it works like this...

you go to Canada and never come back.

[saigon68]

32. YOU NEED AN EDUCATION

Ever hear of Viet-Nam ???? (didn't think so)

Ever Hear of Sarcasm ???? (didn't think so)

Ever been Drafted ???? (didn't think so)

Ever Kill a Commie ???? (didn't think so)

Ever see your friends shot down like Dogs ???? (didn't think so)

Ever attempt to understand Irony???? (didn't think so)

Understand the following quote??????

"They never saw what napalm does do a little girl's skin. They never saw a 19-year-old from Iowa screaming and writhing on the ground because a mine blew his legs off. They never saw a man take a bullet through the brain, then watch his body flop around on the ground for a minute or so because it doesn't realize he's dead. They never put pieces of someone into a bag, not knowing who it was until you read the tags, because there wasn't any face left to go along with the other parts. They haven't seen the shit I've seen, and they want to do it all over again. Those bastards!

I turned to the panel next to me. The wind and snow came heavier now; I hunched my shoulders and lowered my face. My gaze fell upon names near the bottom. William R. Hunt. David F. Bowman. Hector L. Sanchez. David W. Wooden. Gary B. Jones. Oscar L. Thomas. Ramon Hernandez Torres. Thomas C. Mays. Woodrow D. Adler. Jonathan Blue Jr."

"I wept"

quoted by Alfred A. Hambidge, Jr.



(didn't think so)

[saigon68]

36. THE WHOLE ARTICLE

Read this and then tell me I'm an idiot.

It's from Hackworth--- know who he is ??????

http://www.hackworth.com/article03112003z.html


"But what really makes me mad is how those who should know better seem to have forgotten. All those vets in Congress, POW's even, who know what I'm talking about, but will go along with the calls for war because it's politically expedient. Don't they remember? Do they really want another generation of kids to experience that shit? Have they gotten so accustomed to the trappings of power that people are just pawns, tools, mere things to be manipulated for their own ends? DO THEY KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE DOING?

"But it doesn't matter. We'll let them do it anyway."

He began walking away, head up but eyes looking down. As he receded into the swirling snow, I saw him raise his face to the storm, toward Capitol Hill. "DAMN YOU BASTARDS!" was the last thing I heard as he disappeared into the white.

[frylock]

37. thank you for your service, and welcome home.

[saigon68]

38. Your Thanks Appreciated

People like us must stop this HORSESHIT from Happening again.

[Walt Starr]

41. Veterans like you are the best ammuniation we have

to nip this HORSESHIT in the bud.

[saigon68]

42. Hackworth

ENTITLEMENTS OF COL. DAVID H. HACKWORTH
(U.S. ARMY, RETIRED)

AWARDS & DECORATIONS
COLONEL DAVID H. HACKWORTH
(U.S. ARMY, RETIRED)




Individual Decorations & Service Medals:

Distinguished Service Cross (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
Silver Star (with nine Oak Leaf Clusters)
Legion of Merit (with three Oak Leaf Clusters)
Distinguished Flying Cross
Bronze Star Medal (with "V" Device & seven Oak Leaf Clusters)(Seven of the awards for heroism)
Purple Heart (with seven Oak Leaf Clusters)
Air Medal (with "V" Device & Numeral 34)(One for heroism and 33 for aerial achievement)
Army Commendation Medal (w/ "V" Device & 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Good Conduct Medal
World War II Victory Medal
Army of Occupation Medal (with Germany and Japan Clasps)
National Defense Service Medal (with one Bronze Service Star)
Korean Service Medal (with Service Stars for eight campaigns)
Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
Vietnam Service Medal (2 Silver Service Stars = 10 campaigns)
Armed Forces Reserve Medal
Unit Awards:

Presidential Unit Citation (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
Valorous Unit Award (with one Oak Leaf Cluster)
Meritorious Unit Commendation
Badges & Tabs:

Combat Infantryman Badge (w/ one Star; representing 2 awards)
Master Parachutist Badge
Army General Staff Identification Badge
Foreign Awards:

United Nations Service Medal (Korea)
Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal with Device (1960)
Vietnam Cross of Gallantry (with two Gold Stars)
Vietnam Cross of Gallantry (with two Silver Stars)
Vietnam Armed Forces Honor Medal (1st Class)
Vietnam Staff Service Medal (1st Class)
Vietnam Army Distinguished Service Order, 2d Class
Vietnam Parachutist Badge (Master Level)
Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation
Republic of Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation (with three Palm oak leaf clusters)
Republic of Vietnam Civil Actions Honor Medal, First Class Unit Citation (with one Palm oak leaf cluster)
World War II Merchant Marine Awards:

Pacific War Zone Bar
Victory Medal

Note: As per a Department of the Army audit conducted by COL Pam Mitchell, Chief Personnel ServiceSupport Division on May 6 1999.

[Walt Starr]

44. This one REALY sticks out for me

Good Conduct Medal

Officers are NEVER awarded the Good Conduct Medal, not even Warrant Officers. Only enlisted men (privates and non-coms)can be awarded the Good Conduct Medal.

This General came up through the ranks. He knows what it is to be the private slogging it out in a foxhole.

[saigon68]

48. He was an enlisted man

Before he got his commission

http://www.hackworth.com/biography.html

"He enlisted in the merchant marine at age 14 and the U.S. Army at 15. In almost 26 years in the Army he spent over seven years in combat theaters, winning a battlefield commission in Korea to become that war's youngest Army captain."

[Walt Starr]

54. I didn't need to see his bio to know that

Just the Good Conduct Medal.

:evilgrin:

[saigon68]

55. UNDERSTOOD

I caught that too, the first time I saw that.

Didn't want anyone (other than us) to misinterpret what you said.

Thanks for the reply to my horseshit post. appreciated it.

We do have a lot to do. :-)

[Walt Starr]

45. This one REALY sticks out for me

Good Conduct Medal

Officers are NEVER awarded the Good Conduct Medal, not even Warrant Officers. Only enlisted men (privates and non-coms)can be awarded the Good Conduct Medal.

This General came up through the ranks. He knows what it is to be the private slogging it out in a foxhole.

[saigon68]

52. HIS BIOGRAPHY

http://www.hackworth.com/biography.html

"After almost five years in Vietnam Hack's cup runneth over. In 1971, as the Army's youngest colonel he spoke out on national television saying, "This is a bad war ... it can't be won we need to get out." In that interview, he also said that the North Vietnamese flag would fly over Saigon in four years -- a prediction that turned out to be right on target. He was the only senior officer to sound off about the insanity of the war. Understandably, Nixon and the Army weren't real happy with his shooting off his mouth."

[TahitiNut]

60. Look familiar?

Cartoons like this were everywhere.

[catmandu57]

3. Oh Boy

this ought to go over real good, can the draft be far behind?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

9. You are so funny!

I choked on my coffee laughing out loud....

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

4. They will be pulling back the Draft

Iraq, a Vietnam for the 21st century.

Quaghdad, Iraqnam.

And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn,
Next stop it's IRAQNAM!

[NNN0LHI]

7. I never thought there would be a draft...until this morning n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

15. I've thought all along that there'd be a draft, predicted it to come in

after last fall's elections. I'll hold to that insofar as I think it may be proven later that they certainly were planning a draft then. I think they'll sell it as a way to give our brave troops already in Iraq a way to come home. A draft gets a lot of unemployed people off the streets and war is a great means to reduce population, keeping some of those people from ever being on the streets again.

[Dhalgren]

6. Now, if I understand this correctly,

this means that we are supposed to have 550,000 troops committed to the "in country" occupation. If there is to be a standing occupation army of 150,000 troops, then there has to be that same number in rotational transit, and that same number in rotational prep. I'm prety sure that is what I understood some general to say last week (sorry i can't remember who it was). Does this sound right? Is there anyone out there who is up on these things and can comment - I may have this wrong. Anyway, Iam also pretty sure that the standing 150,000 strong occupation army is "in country" and doesn't include the thousands and thousands of support troops in Kuwait and Turkey and elsewhere. How many do we have in Afghanistan? This is so out of hand!

[NewGuy]

10. One year tours reduce the rotation requirement.

If you keep troops there a full year, essentially, your in rotational prep and your in transit can be combined. The longer rotation period simplifies the planning and reduces the number required. Thats why they go to it.

[TahitiNut]

11. Memories: It wasn't until 1966 that troop strength in Vietnam

... exceeded 100,000. It took over ten years to get to that level.

[JoFerret]

28. And we already have

almost 150,000 without counting the Danes (!).

[KG]

8. how do they fukin plan to pay for it?

oh, yeah, they haven't thought for ahead. they never do.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Easy, they'll raise taxes on those who have the least money. They

want to get money from those "luckie duckies" who don't make enough to pay federal taxes.

And they'll cut veterans' benefits more, cut education funding more, cut Medicare and Social Security -- just getting rid of them entirely is their ultimate goal, anyway.

But they'll keep talking up how they support our troops, how they'll "leave no child behind," how much they care about the needs of the elderly and disabled. Bush* is a "compassionate conservative," don't you know?

And if people don't see through their lies, they'll continue to get away with doing the opposite of what they claim to be doing. Remember, they've returned honor and dignity to the White House.

:puke:

WAKE UP, AMERICA!!!

[kayell]

13. Oh, don't worry so

They'll just ask for a supplemental when they need to.... :eyes:

[GreenArrow]

22. They'll pay for it with the Iraqi's oil, of course

Free money, you know. And they'll cut a bunch of social programs.

[Beetwasher]

14. Is there a more SINISTER reason for this?

It's bad PR and it's going to go over like a Led Zeppelin.

I'm wondering if they don't want to bring those boys home, because when they do, a whole lot of ugly truths will come out, such as true casualty figures etc...

[enough]

17. I've been wondering this too, Beetwasher

Think of all those thousands of soldiers coming back, each one being interviewed by their local paper, and their local TV station.

These are stories they do not want heard right now.

[ichiro99]

34. Nothing 'ugly' ...

Military looked like a career opportunity before; it still looks like a career opportunity. ...Getting the invasion settled may ultimately mean withdrawing to the desert, re-bombing population centers, but victory's at hand in any case.

These guys are the best and they just need to do their jobs -- bring home the pelts, take their amphetamine and their cheeseburgers, make certain their prayer-meeting attendance is current and accurately documented -- they'll come home, be first in line for all the new cop and jail-guard jobs. What's wrong with that?

Success.

[Ripley]

16. Unbelievable what that soldiers fiancee said!!

A few minutes ago, I saw CNN interview a woman from Savannah who's fiancee is in Iraq. She said he is mentally, physically and emotionally drained and he has nothing left inside him to fight with. He is completely demoralized because he was supposed to come home Sept. 1, now he has no idea how long he will be there.

She actually said He found it hard to fight for a President he once believed in, who now has LIED to him. !!!

She sounded really pissed and so do the troops!

[Zero Gravitas]

43. Mission Accomplished?

but, but when Our Glorious Leader swaggered about the flight deck in his flight suit I thought we'd Liberated Iraq. Why aren't Our Brave Troops home already, surely the Grateful Iraqi People can take some time out from dancing in the streets and showering Our Brave Troops with rose petals to run their own country now?

(the above was intended as scarcasm)

[saigon68]

46. LOOKS LIKE A LONG STAY

According to a friend of mine still in the reserves, the powers that be are furious over the political spin.

Much of the troop strength is being used as armed guards for everything under the sun, convoys, oil ministries, airports etc.

Apparently the average citizen of this fine country is also becoming more fed up with our presence.

[Walt Starr]

18. We MUST take it to the streets now

We are in a new Vietnam, take it to the streets August 23.

[blondeatlast]

20. I'm there--got more info???

nm

[Walt Starr]

21. I'm just now trying to get this going

I read about the one year TODs in Iraq, realized we are definitely in a new Vietnam, and decided personally we need to get moving on taking it to the streets.

August 23 seemed like as ggood a day as any to do this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

31. Oh How I Wish There Were Large Demonstrations BEFORE

this blamed war began.

You know, to show the * and the rest of America there are people totally against the war and all the tragedies that will follow.

Oh, my bad, there were.

Lot's of them. Thousands of them.

But we were called "focus groups" if not worse.

F**k you Bush. F**k you very much.

[myrna minx]

63. Exactly.

I was in one of those focus groups, walking down Hennepin Avenue with my fellow Minnesotans: 10,000+. I walked along side WWII veterans, mothers and fathers pushing strollers, people walking their puppies, etc. ...but bu$h needed to get his war on.

My friend is outside of Tikrit and will miss the birth of his second child who is due in August. His daughter misses him immensely. He's hot, miserable and wants to come home. His unit will be thrilled to know their tour will be extended. :grr:


By the by...:hi: vfw.

[blondeatlast]

19. Be subversive . . .SUPPORT the troops (the gov't doesn't)

The Admin doesn't want them home . . .

What have the troops dealt with in Iraq?

1. A far better prepared Iraqi military than was expected.
2. Skeletal rations of water and food.
3. Guerrilla fighting.
4. Combat from non-uniformed troops (US couldn't tell if civilians or military--the US should have anticipated this)
5. A less-than-welcoming Iraqi populace.
6. Longer than expected or promised tours of duty.
7. Their sacrifice for THE BIG LIE.
8. Now they are scared poopless that they are sitting ducks--and they are.

What will they deal with when they do get home?
1. An economy in the toilet.
2. Possible job loss.
3. Drastic cuts in veteran's benefits.
4. The realization that their sacrifice didn't matter at all.

How will the ****istas gag them when they get home?

[Blue_Roses]

24. What a mess

this whole ordeal just keeps getting messier. A whole year--let's see now, didn't Rummy say that they would have our troops out of there as soon as possible. What a f*cking liar.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Something terrible just occurred to me

Maybe they plan to bring them all home and scream "Mission Accomplished" (again!) a week before the election?

[northzax]

33. oh, so when you said 'may'

you meant may 2004. interesting. thanks for clearing that up Rummy.

[SeattleDem]

35. nah, would backfire

if the troops are angry NOW, just think of the venomous things they'll have to say if they don't come home until November 2004. At that point, they'd have to wait til AFTER the election. Angry soldiers would NOT increase votes for the President*.

[Best_man23]

40. Damn

This is becoming a worse clusterf*** than I ever imagined.

I think the look on this soldier's face says a thousand words.



Member of 3ID after being informed they are staying in Iraq indefinitly.

[Pathwalker]

47. I can't look at that picture anymore - he looks just like my son

who was in Oil War One. It breaks my heart to see that picture - I KNOW what his parents are feeling right now! I have to go cry now.
Please BRING THEM HOME!

[Pathwalker]

49. I can't look at that picture anymore - he looks just like my son

who was in Oil War One. It breaks my heart to see that picture - I KNOW what his parents are feeling right now! I have to go cry now.
Please BRING THEM HOME!

[Pathwalker]

50. I can't look at that picture anymore - he looks just like my son

who was in Oil War One. It breaks my heart to see that picture - I KNOW what his parents are feeling right now! I have to go cry now.
Please BRING THEM HOME!

[Pathwalker]

51. I can't look at that picture anymore - he looks just like my son

who was in Oil War One. It breaks my heart to see that picture - I KNOW what his parents are feeling right now! I have to go cry now.
Please BRING THEM HOME!

[lebkuchen]

56. One year personnel rotation. Goodbye unit rotation plan

That's the only thing Rummy can do. India isn't going to step in and fill the gap.

Rummy didn't anticipate the complications of occupation, one being the Iraqis antagonism toward US troops and the other being the power grab within the Iraqi infrastructure, or what was left of it.

[TahitiNut]

57. Individual rotation would be a disaster.

One of the most individually disastrous "experiments" of the Vietnam Era was shuffling individuals, by themselves, into and out of in-country units, running the "RepoDepot" as a kind of slave market. ("Fuck your MOS, you're an 11-bravo now, fella!") The first weeks or months were very lonely for many guys. (Newbies had lower survival rates.) Unit "cohesion" suffered. Unit morale suffered. At the end of our tours, we went home alone. No stateside friendships to rely on; no in-country friendships to rely on. No support structure for many guys. In prior and subsequent conflicts, they went back to unit rotation. (This doesn't totally eliminate the "RepoDepot." It merely reduces it by 99%.)

The military supposedly learned the the "lesson" of this personnel management policy. Will they have to learn it again?

[Walt Starr]

59. Apparently, Rummy never learned the disastrous effects

But what do you expect from a NAval Reserve pilot who has no clue of what a ground pounder goes through?

:shrug:

[saigon68]

61. WOLFIE AND RUMDUMB DON'T GIVE A FUCK

Totally agree with the above post.

Any other vets chime in on this.

Look at first five minutes of PLATOON to see what this is about

Unbelievable dumb assholes running the show here.

They know nothing about troops, morale or common sense.

[NickB79]

62. Holy Shi'ite!!! I have two friends over there right now

Stock up on sunscreen, boys, you're gonna need it. I have 2 friends from high school serving there now, and neither one should be there. One was considered a little "slow" in high school, got caught up with the druggie crowd because of it, and after high school his only options were low-paying manual labor jobs or military. Everyone thought it was a great idea, him joining up, and a way to straighten him out and make a man out of him. I wonder how his family feels about that now. My other friend went to college, got a teaching degree, and was an assistant in the Special Education office at our old high school. Great guy, always able to make you laugh, would offer his help to anyone who needed it. Now he's stuck over there shooting at Iraqi's instead of helping a disabled child with his/her homework! What kind of sick world is that?