N.C. pastor stands by sign saying Quran should be flushed

[Richard Steele]

From today's Durham Herald-Sun:
http://www.herald-sun.com/state/6-610392.html

FOREST CITY, N.C. -- A Baptist minister refuses to apologize for a church sign saying the Muslim holy book should be flushed.

"I believe that it is a statement supporting the word of God and that it (the Bible) is above all and that any other religious book that does not teach Christ as savior and lord as the 66 books of the Bible teaches it, is wrong," said the Rev. Creighton Lovelace of Danieltown Baptist Church. "I knew that whenever we decided to put that sign up that there would be people who wouldn't agree with it, and there would be some that would, and so we just have to stand up for what's right."
<snip>
Lovelace said he expected the sign in front of his 55-member church to also stir anger in some people.

"If we stand for what is right and for God's word and for Christianity then the world is going to condemn us and so right away when I got a complaint I said, 'Well somebody's mad, somebody's offended, so we must be doing something right,'" Lovelace said.

<more at link>

So, is NC turning out more of these Fristian wingnuts these days? This is 2 in 2 weeks now. (Thank God I live in a nice BLUE county!)

[madrchsod]

1. hey dick wad--- not all the 66 books of the bible

are about christ...those assholes in the old testament are the ones who got the romans to nail Christ to the cross..stupid fuck`n fundies

[derby378]

8. Besides, I thought it was 73 books

That means the pastor is leaving out books of the Bible he doesn't like. SPLITTER!!

[Montanan]

11. Christians tout the Old Testament when it furthers their interests...

...and try to invalidate it when it doesn't.

[katty]

26. o lord I'm glad I'm in a blue state - spray some prozac on the red states

and give us all a break from these psychotics!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

56. Voted blue in a red state where I live.

[jobycom]

31. Yeah, and one is pretty cool softcore porno story, too.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

55. Please explain yourself, madrchsod. I'm Jewish, and I want to be

clear what you mean by "those assholes in the old testament..." I hope you're not starting something about Jews being 'Christ Killers.'

Old Testament (at least the one we use) are "The Five Books of Moses" (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy; not necessarily in that order?!).

As an aside, Jesus isn't part of the Old Testament. I'm not trying to start something; I just want to be clear that you're not.

[daleo]

2. I wouldn't advise him to bring that sign to Baghdad.

Unless he wants to join one of his favorite martyrs.

[chaumont58]

5. "We support our troops"

Can't you imagine how much more favorably inclined an Iraqi insurgent will be toward a patrolling GI, after reading this.

Praise Jesus!

[saigon68]

24. ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
Forward into battle see His banners go!

Refrain

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.

At the sign of triumph Satan’s host doth flee;
On then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
Brothers lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

Refrain

Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
One in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

Refrain

What the saints established that I hold for true.
What the saints believèd, that I believe too.
Long as earth endureth, men the faith will hold,
Kingdoms, nations, empires, in destruction rolled.

Refrain

Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
But the church of Jesus constant will remain.
Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;
We have Christ’s own promise, and that cannot fail.

Refrain

Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,
Blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.
Glory, laud and honor unto Christ the King,
This through countless ages men and angels sing.

Refrain

[Ms_Mary]

3. As if the other minister wasn't enough to make me cringe for my state....n

[MadisonProgressive]

29. What's it with these NC 'Men of God'??

[youspeakmylanguage]

39. Every state has their own share of fundies...

It may be worse in the south, but every state has it's own share of crazies and fundies. Some are worse than others.

[XemaSab]

76. There was a sign on a church

in my town in cali

"It's better to be right than to be tolerant"

My pastor gave a sermon on it, tho it wasn't our church. He took, shall we say, a slightly different view.

[ngGale]

60. They are out to humiliate the hell out of we...

Blue Dem voting people who live here. Learning from Bushco, Inc.:hide:

[Ms_Mary]

62. Southern Baptists.

They tend to be more conservative and closed minded than other mainstream Christian sects, at least in my observation here in the Bible Belt. I was raised baptist and I turned out rather liberal. Go figure.

[Supersedeas]

64. NC can be proud of the political ministers and flip-flop Walt Jones too

Or they can 'git' the hell out!!!

I guess.

[tanyev]

4. Then he needs to flush it down his own toilet and

deal with the plumbing problems that are sure to follow.

[chomskysright]

65. WATCH IT EXPLODE!

[liberal N proud]

6. And they wonder... Why the Muslim world hates Americans

This is the kind of shit that set fire under them.

[Supersedeas]

43. "Why do they hate us?" ...Karen Hughes has hard werk to do no?

[OneAngryDemocrat]

7. "N.C. pastor stands by sign saying Quran should be flushed"

I suppose it never occured to this jerk that proclaiming another person's Holy Book should be flushed down a toliet is a heck of a lot different than simply saying that the guy's religious views are wrong.

These Bible-Nazis are so far out there...

[richmwill]

9. Another hypocrite...

If Lovelace saw a sign that said "The Bible Needs To Be Flushed", GUARANTEED he'd be running home to call Jay Sekulow and cry about how that sign offended him and he wants to sue whoever put it up.

[Montanan]

10. Another Christian hatemonger gets his 15 minutes of fame.

I predict more provocative activity of this sort from frustrated backwoods preachers. It's a career move.

[sendero]

48. Bingo...

.... that is exactly what it is.

And most churches are businesses disguised as places of worship.

[Richard Steele]

12. Some Quick Statistics for Forest Hills, NC

(THX to the folks at City-Data.com;
http://www.city-data.com/city/Forest-City-North-Carolin... )

Population (year 2000): 7,549,
Est. population in July 2002: 7,410 (-1.9% change)
Median resident age: 37.8 years
Median household income: $24,243 (year 2000)
Median house value: $62,700 (year 2000)

Education for population 25 years and over in Forest City:
* High school or higher: 64.9%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 9.6%
* Graduate or professional degree: 3.3%
(That adds to 78.8%; are 21.2 LESS than High School?)
* Unemployed: 10.0%

City-data.com crime index = 461.4 (higher means more crime, US average = 330.6)

Forest City compared to North Carolina state average:

* Median household income below state average.
* Median house value significantly below state average.
* Length of stay since moving in above state average.
* Percentage of population with a bachelor's degree or higher significantly below state average.
* Population density below state average for cities.

Isn't it interesting that the conditions which breed crime and drug addiction are the SAME as those that breed RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY?

[LostinVA]

21. The area has also seen alot of textiles go overseas

You reap what you sow...

[Solly Mack]

13. couching their hate in their religion and calling it

"...supporting the word of god..."

his hypocrisy no doubt escapes him...

[Montanan]

14. These fucks know they're hypocrites, they just don't care. n/t

[Solly Mack]

15. I think some of them know...and the rest are just too damn dumb

to know the difference.

[Canuckistanian]

16. Newsweek should be covering this

But they won't.

[chomskysright]

66. Where is NEWSQUEAK when we need it?

[0007]

17. Pure lunacy!

A mental deranged person for sure.

[Richard Steele]

18. Found photo of the SIGN at DailyKos: (thx to DK member 'Benito')

[Supersedeas]

25. nothing like a little hate speech to draw listeners to AM advertisers

[gratuitous]

19. Why doesn't Mr. Lovelace follow the Bible?

Romans 12:18: ". . . so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all."

[Supersedeas]

30. b/c this has everything to do w/Bush identity politics

and less with spirituality

[Fire Walk With Me]

38. "Do unto others"? That's "Old news". And it would be Hard Work.

[chomskysright]

67. great pick-up: I can see my protest sign for this Sunday now....

I picketed the other Baptist church. might as well not stop there.

[LostinVA]

20. Oh gosh, Forest City, what a surprise... NOT!

My parents used to live close to there, and my sister was visiting them once and was filling up her car at a gas station. My father's family is Sicilian, and my sister has very curly hair and gets very dark in the summer. It was summer. Anyway, a guy walks past here and says, "You a sp*c or a half-n*gger." Several people laughed. Swear to Goddess. Now, my sister ls 36, and lived in NC from sixth grade to two years ago (except for two years in Germany). She couldn't believe it.

REALLY red town.

[DS1]

22. Send them to Iraq to get their message across

[gauguin57]

23. My only response to this bullshit is to quote Brother John Lennon ...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

[babydollhead]

28. that reminds me...

does anyone else around here remember when "imagine" was banned from radio play after 9/11?

[fob]

27. His right to Free Speech and flush as many Quran's as he wants - American

His inability to grasp Freedom of Religion and Freedom from Religion -UN-American.

[Az_lefty]

32. Creighton Lovelace is part of the Southern Nationalist org...

remember the Christian Exodus?
http://www.southernnationalist.org/christian_exodus.htm

Petition:
http://speakout.com/petitions/1305.html

[chomskysright]

68. Creighton's paper won't come up on the Southern Exodus website...

any suggestions?

[chomskysright]

69. On Southern Exodus: its SC based:.....

boy, is this a cult or what? I'm looking for info here in order to report them to AU: Americans United for the separation of church and state.

http://www.christianexodus.com/index.php?module=PostWrap&page=plan

The Plan of Action
ChristianExodus.org is moving thousands of Christian constitutionalists to specific cities and counties in South Carolina through a series of emigrations. Our board of directors considers the values of this state to be very similar to the values held by our membership. Additionally, South Carolina possesses a rich history of standing up for her rights.

The cities and counties will be selected based upon, but not limited to, the following criteria:

Voter turnout in primary elections.
Voter turnout in general elections.
Moral nature of the electorate.
Cost of living/housing.
Economic and employment opportunity.
Christian educational choices (including home school networks).
Availability of churches.

[chomskysright]

70. Southern Exodus has not applied for 501c3: ATTORNEYS HERE:

what are your comments re: this?

http://www.christianexodus.com/index.php?module=PostWrap&page=about&POSTNUKESID=813562eb6b36281ea187d454e497781c

"Mr. Jim Taylor and Mr. Cory Burnell founded ChristianExodus.org in November 2003 as a response to the moral degeneration of our nation and the lack of any determination by the Republican Party to return our nation to its Constitutional moors. ChristianExodus.org seeks a return to constitutionally limited government founded upon Christian principles, and has decided that the best strategy for achieving this goal is to reform the local and state governments. To accomplish this reform, we will relocate thousands of Christian constitutionalists to one particular sovereign State (South Carolina) so that our numbers will make an effective difference in electoral politics.

ChristianExodus.org is a non-profit corporation in the State of Texas. We have not applied for 501(c)3 status because it serves to muzzle organizations. Our mission is to glorify God through moral governance, and we will not be distracted by the issues that arise from 501(c)3 considerations. We believe that America suffers its current Godless state, because our churches have decided that their precious tax-deductible status is more important than preaching the Gospel as it regards ALL facets of life including civic responsibilities and politics. We refuse to fall prey to the same temptation.

We have a dedicated staff of some twenty talented volunteer officers, and four Board members. The Lord continues to bless us with wonderful folks all the time.

[chomskysright]

72. 2003: they've organized a 'Constitution Party':

http://www.christianexodus.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=358&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Exodus is open to all constitutionalists regardless of political party. However, the constitutionalists most convinced of the need for “desperate” measures such as an emigration project like CE tend to be those in the CP. Most CP members used to be Republicans and have already made the psychological commitment to principle first and party second. These folks have already decided that an “alternative” strategy is necessary and therefore have opted for a “third party.” CE is similarly an “alternative” strategy. Consequently the most ardent support for our project has come from Constitution Party members.

In light of these considerations, we have made the decision to actively market and promote Christian Exodus to the Constitution Party while at the same time promoting the Constitution Party. In other words, we will employ a strategy of growing the Constitution Party and recruiting members to our project through the growth of the CP. The growth of the CP will directly complement the growth of CE by informing likeminded Christian constitutionalists of the existence of our project. It should be noted that the CP will not be the only vehicle used by CE to gather constitutionalists to South Carolina, but it will be the most important.

Through this coordination with the Constitution Party we will: 1) encourage all CE members to join their state CP and actively participate in the state and county meetings, 2) elect delegates to the CP national committee who will promote CE as the best near-term strategy for acquiring constitutionally limited government, and 3) recruit fellow CP members to join CE and move to South Carolina.

Christian Exodus does not require any particular party affiliation as a condition for participation in CE. Christian constitutionalists are all encouraged to participate in this monumental project regardless of their party membership. In fact, we certainly encourage our Republican members to also attend their local and state meetings and recruit other Republican constitutionalists to South Carolina. Our relationship with the Constitution Party simply makes perfect sense since we are trying to recruit Christian constitutionalists and the overwhelming majority of the CP fits this definition. If we want to recruit constitutionalists, we need to go where the constitutionalists gather.

Section 3.3 of our Project Blueprint, Feasibility, considers that 956,000 people voted for a Constitution Party candidate in 2004. Nearly 1 million people identified with the message of Christian constitutionalists. We need to notify these same people that Christian Exodus exists for the purpose of instituting constitutional governance in South Carolina. What better way to get the word to them than through the very same organization that got the Christian constitutional message to them in the first place, the Constitution Party?

[deacon2]

33. Praise be to God!

Dear God,
Thank you so much for letting me live among the heathens and commies in California.
Amen.

P.S. Let's do lunch... mean it!

[leesa]

34. What a filthy stinking human being. There will be lots of

these newfangled christian hatemongers in hell, won't there?

Anyone have this evil man's e-mail?

[conflictgirl]

59. Guys like him probably don't have email.

That requires being able to read, you know. :P

[TommyO]

35. methinks the pastor should be flushed!

Right out of his ministry! No doubt his loyal flock (how appropriate for the sheeple that follow these bastards) supports him too.

[youspeakmylanguage]

36. Stop giving these frothing fundie rednecks the free publicity!

I don't understand why people are shocked and upset over this. This is one small, backwoods shack of a church in a small, backwoods piece of sh*t-kicking dogpatch in NC. I'll clue you guys in on a little secret - these people also hate minorities, gays, and anyone else that doesn't look, act, or think like them. It's a sad, pathetic story but it isn't a unique one.

Now this guy who claims to be a "man of the cloth" has his name in the press. He'll attract more bigots to his church and maybe even collect some donations. The more we talk about him, the more attention he'll get. And the more negative press he receives, the more proud he'll be of himself, like a schoolyard bully thumping his own chest after stuffing someone in a locker.

F*ck him and ignore him. He isn't worth the elevated blood pressure.

[donheld]

37. Some think both the Bible and the Quran should be flushed

I find it easier just to ignore both.

[shadowknows69]

40. ok how about hate crime charges?

we still have muslims in this country too dickless and they have all the same rights you do (in theory anyway)

[damntexdem]

41. Well, the preacher dishonors the Bible much more that he does the Quran.

Islam is lucky that this guy isn't going to be misrepresenting them, like he does Christianity.

[CRK7376]

42. Why is my state blessed

with so many small-minded idiots???? They make me nuts....

[Bandit]

44. I think I would be very embarrassed if I was a member of that church

Maybe someone who lives in the area could stand in front of the church and videotape the congregation as they come and go. See if they are as hateful as their pastor. Jesus is about Love and Forgiving not hate and disrespect.

[Richard Steele]

45. No, that's what's SAD...these folks are PROUD of this kind of crap!

This whole fiasco might just be a penny-ante version of Judge Moore's Ten Commandments Monument...wouldn't suprise me a bit if Cretin Loveless is planning to run for some local office.

JESUS WEPT.

[redwitch]

53. 55 members

kinda tells ya something.

[Greylyn58]

46. Just what I needed to see

another whack-job acting out in my state. North Carolina isn't as bad as these goobers make it seem. Unfortunately, the media is gonna give this air time and give him the very publicity this stupid fundie is looking for.

He has 55 members currently in his church...doesn't that prove he is trying to grow his congregation and bring more like-minded idiots into his church.

Lord what an embarrassment. :evilfrown:

[doni_georgia]

47. I wonder how many people will die because of this moron of a pastor?

That's a real Christian there, all right... Piss off your enemies when you're safely out of range. Never mind that the troops in Iraq (whom you claim to support) are the ones who take the brunt when you piss them off.

All I can say is: let him go to Iraq or Afghanistan, and put his sign up there. Then HE can be the one who gets killed, instead of some innocent civilian or one of our soldiers (who have enough problems already).

What a coward. And what an asshole.
If I had a Quran, I'd desecrate it too. I'd shove it so far up his sorry ass that I could use his teeth as bookmarks.


Mac in Ga

[maddezmom]

49. the moran was just on Keith O right now on MSNBC...,

can't wait to read the transcript...just flipped it on at the close.

[chomskysright]

73. Someone have that transcript? thanks.

[RPM]

50. this guy needs to be flushed....

I'll volunteer to give him a swirlie!!!!

[AirAmFan]

51. Spouses, children, parents, and friends of US soldiers in Iraq ought to

let that pastor know what they think of his efforts.

You can be sure reports from North Carolina are giving anti-American forces a little extra boost every day, leading them to kill a few extra Americans thanks to that "Christian" clergyman.

[Tippy]

52. This man is not a true or real Christian I really

feel sorry for people like him...

[genieroze]

54. As a liberal Christian, I say "Flush The Minister". eom

[demgurl]

57. I am from this state....

and I can not imagine that the idiot realizes what he is saying. The Koran flushing controversy was a controversy because it is torture. He is basically saying he is agreeing with the flushing and therefore his small bible thumping mind is condoning torture for Muslims! I want to know what version of the bible he reads.

You know, I wish I lived closer to his city. I would be out changing his sign in the wee hours of the morning. There is no glass to protect 'his message'.

[Contrary1]

58. Here's how it looks with a bit of editing...

"I believe that it is a statement supporting the word of Allah and that it (the Quran) is above all and that any other religious book that does not teach Allah as savior and lord as the 114 suras (chapters)of the Quran teaches it, is wrong," said the Iraqi religious leader. "I knew that whenever we decided to put that sign up that there would be people who wouldn't agree with it, and there would be some that would, and so we just have to stand up for what's right."

Same intolerance, same BS...

[NMMNG]

61. This is probably the dipwad I saw on tv tonight

as I was walking by.

So his 'holy book' is so much better than anybody elses?

Pfft!

[MN ChimpH8R]

63. Doesn't that sign

look like it should say "Topless Dancers, 2 for 1 beer for happy hour"? :P

Olbermann beautifully skewered this inbred hillbilly asshat last night.

Isn't there something that sensible southerners can do about this plague of imbeciles in your part of the country? :shrug:

[bunny planet]

71. Reverend Creighton Lovelace?

Porn star name or what?

[drduffy]

74. What goes on inside the church....

I met professionally today with a woman who lives near the church. Bear in mind that she stated that she knew neighbors who had gone to the church and they described it as one where the children, men and women are segregated. That they attempt to compel the children to speak in tongues and will tie the children to their chairs and yell at them if they are disobedient. She described it as a cult.

Note that this is not 'evidence' per se but just one Christain woman describing what she views as a cult. I am located abouty 40 miles from there. She also finds the sign to be disrespectful to another religion.

[Norquist Nemesis]

75. Children speaking in tongues?

Really!?! The behavior she describes is textbook cult.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

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