Parks' Sex Offenders Stance Draws Concern (offenders are concerned)

[shawn703]

Bob Levan bought season passes to Six Flags Great America for his daughters and their best friend, but he is worried he won't be able to ride the roller coasters with them because he is a convicted sex offender.

Six Flags added wording on the back of season passes to all 30 of its U.S. amusement parks this year stating that it reserves the right to refuse entry to anyone convicted of a sex crime.

The amusement park said it does not actually plan to run background checks on everyone entering the park, but visitors seen acting inappropriately could be subjected to a check and thrown out.

Still, the warning was enough to concern Levan.

"My 13-year-old girl read this on the back of the pass and said, `Now Daddy, does this mean you can never take me to Great America?'" he said. "I am 350 percent for protecting children, and that just bugs me."


more...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=772141

[aion]

1. Unintended Consequences

Before I start on this, let me preface by saying that I have no love for pedophiles. I will choose the rights of the child to safely visit an amusement park over the pedophile's right to do the same.

Having said that, however, I do think punishment should always be proportionate to the crime. And furthermore, I think we run the risk of making the penalty too high. Too high for a pedophile? Am I nuts?

I don't think so. My concern is still for the children. My concern is for the child who is being held by a predatory pedophile while amber alerts and sirens close in on his location. This man or woman may very well decide that it is worth the risk to kill the child, rather than take a chance that he or she will be forced to wear a scarlet letter for the rest of time.

[Megahurtz]

4. What makes you think this is about PUNISHMENT?

It's about prevention.
By reducing the risks (as allowed by the fucked-up law) of the perpatrator molesting any more kids.

[TahitiNut]

6. "Prevention" of crime is the Hallmark of Totalitarianism.

No society can both "prevent" crime and enjoy civil liberties.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. Short, sweet and to the point.

:thumbsup:

[Megahurtz]

10. Well, I have kids

like other people do, so with the law being as fucked up as it is, (and having negative experience with it on this subject) I have more interest in the civil liberties of the children.

I could really give a rats ass about the pedophiles.

[aion]

17. I thought I made that clear

I, too, am concerned with the fate of the children. I am concerned about the child who may find his or herself prisoner of a pedophile. I am concerned that the penalty, if disproportionate to the crime, could cause additional unintended consequences for that child.

If you remove the emotional element of the crime, and look at something like shoplifting, for example, you can see my point, perhaps, more clearly. If shoplifting were punishable by death, do you think we would have an easy time catching shoplifters? They would just as soon go out in a blaze of glory as to be caught. That is the thing that I think is worth considering.

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. Children have no civil liberties.

They have the right not to be molested, raped and abused, certainly. And "sex offender" doesn't = "pedophile", anyway. Guy could've gotten drunk and exposed himself at a bar. That's a "sex offence", too.

[bennywhale]

35. A perceptive point

Crime prevention is blanket prevention, so every citizen is subject to it. By the same logic no-one should object being fitted with a microchip detecting all movements linked to a government database. Crime goes tomorrow, side affect being America enslaved.

There wasn't much crime under Stalin, still doesn't mean you'd want to live in Russia

[Toots]

13. Preventative Attack Bush* doctrine

I for one don't buy it. I value the constitution more.

[aion]

25. Proverbs 28:8

One who increases his possessions by usury and extortion Gathers it for him who will pity the poor. (Proverbs 28:8)

[TahitiNut]

5. It's tragic, on DU of all places, ....

... that anyone would have to preface their post with a caveat such as "Before I start on this, let me preface by saying that I have no love for pedophiles."

It often seems that altogether far too many are willing, if not eager, to make implications that those with whom they disagree are either "sympathizers" with or are themselves pedophiles, sexists, bigots, or anti-Semites.

[aion]

21. I hessitated when I wrote it, but what the hell

I hessitated when I wrote it, but what the hell. It is what I believe, and it will ensure that I am not lumped in with that group of people who actually believe that pedophilia is somehow ok. I do not like these people at all. I find predatory behavior reprehensible in all forms -- but especially so when it involves either the extremely young or the aged.

My concern is for the child who is caught by a trapped animal. When you corner an animal, the animal will almost certainly lash out. And when it is a human animal, it seems likely that this human animal will lash out in direct proportion to the threat perceived.

I would much rather have a band around their leg which lets the authorities know their whereabouts at all times.

[bennywhale]

38. Who on earth are the group who think Peadophilia is OK

i have never heard of anyone with such a view, other than possibly a peadophile, yet have never heard such a thing anyway.

[Warpy]

12. "Sex offender" casts far too wide a net

and is extended to men who solicit undercover officers for prostitution in some states, as well as men who chat up what they think are underage girls online without acting on it, and men who have been found surfing very questionable sites online at work.

There needs to be a narrower classification system. Actual pedophiles who have acted out should be banned, whether or not they've got children with them. It's like putting an alcoholic next to an open bar.

[aion]

22. Would you say the same of a bank robber?

Would you keep a bank robber out of banks even after he or she has 'served' his time in jail?

[Trillo]

33. In the process of banning "actual pedophiles",

should a private corporation such as this park be allowed to sell a ticket to an actual pedophile, then revoke that after "entry?"

[bennywhale]

39. I know a young man in Britain who was

put on the sex offenders list for 5 years for running naked around the block, having lost a drinking game as a student. He was charged with indecent exposure and it has virtually ruined his life.

[Megahurtz]

2. Oh well.........

:shrug:

[Malikshah]

3. The issue is--

Defining sex offender/sexual battery

[undeterred]

7. Why just sex offenders? Why not anyone convicted of a violent crime?

The offender has children to take care of and he has served his time.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. "Levan was convicted of molesting an 8-year-old relative when he was 16"

OK, I'm torn. It was an 8yo.

Then again, it was when he was 16, and he's 35 now, and between then and now he married and raised a family, and seemingly never did anything wrong since.

As I said, I'm torn.

[undeterred]

11. Me too.

And is it fair to his 13 year old daughter to have to be reminded of her father's 19 year old mistake and perhaps to be more vulnerable herself because her father can't be with her?

[davidinalameda]

14. its a CYA thing

doubtful that it would ever been enforced

unless the parks are going to stop EVERYONE entering and doing a background check

gee, that would go over like a lead balloon

[genieroze]

15. Not to mention the cost. That would make ticket prices go up and

corporate profits go down.

[aion]

19. ID designation

It wouldn't be quite that difficult. It wouldn't even be as difficult to do here in the USA as it was in Nazi Germany.

Here in Indiana, we have a different color background on driver's licenses. If you are 21+, you get one color. If you are under 21, you get a different color. This way, at a glance, someone looking at the photo will know your age -- more or less.

I suspect it won't be long before sex offenders are designated as such on their official state/national ID. And if these parks were to simply require a valid ID in order to enter, then they will be able to restrict access without doing the background checks themselves.

[Maddy McCall]

23. Well, hell, then...

That's what we need to do. As if we aren't already enough like Nazi Germany.

:eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

27. Yikes... yes, by all means, let's model ourselves after Nazi Germany...

and sacrifice all our civil liberties... we're not so far from that already, so it shouldn't be so difficult. :eyes:

Maybe they can give gay Americans PINK licenses, so that judges and ministers will know at a glance that it's illegal for me to get married. What a great idea!!

[Maddy McCall]

28. I vote that we just put everyone we find offensive in leg irons.

Then they can't run fast when we chase them down to beat them up.

:eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

29. Excellent, but of course surgically implanted chips would be more

effective in the long run... that would simply incapacitate them whenever anyone "in charge" decides it's appropriate. I trust our government, don't you?

[Maddy McCall]

30. Hell yes. We could get some of them there Arizona vigilantes ...

to stand guard at Disney Land, to jolt any dangerous people who try to enter.

I think you found the solution to remedy our impending doom. :D

[WatchWhatISay]

49. Dont be silly

Lets just post some pictures of naked children in a curtained off booth and make all males walk through it with their pants down. Those who get a rise get tossed out.

[Eugene]

24. Swipe a Real ID compatible DL and check it with ChoicePoint...

Six Flags already checks visitors at the gate
for weapons and contraband. If they make
and ID check work efficiently in real time,
they could justify the cost with the reduced
risk of a negligence suit.

I don't think this is a good idea,
but it may be technically feasible.

[Maddy McCall]

26. How ya going to keep out the molesters who have never been convicted?

Like I said below. False sense of security.

[bennywhale]

36. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary

saftey deserve neither liberty or safety"

B. Franklin

[tammywammy]

37. No, I don't think that it would be feasible

Meaning, they're not going to be able to check the ID of everyone that enters the park. First, there's a lot of teenagers with season passes that spend days (I mean like 3-4 days/week during the summer) at the park, and someone who's under 16 may not have any identification.

Six Flags, and most other amusement parks, already have a policy that they can throw anyone out. You're caught stealing, you're thrown out, etc. I think this policy is more of a "If we see someone acting inappropriately and they have a season pass" then we'll run a check on them, and it's another excuse to take away the pass and bar them from entry.

And for the record, I was a 3 season Six Flags Guest Relations (aka complaint dept) employee.

[shawn703]

43. What is CYA? n/t

[progressivebydesign]

16. I just can't imagine letting my kid hang out with a sex offender..

.. whether it was a parent or not, and the best friend.

[Danmel]

18. I was thinking the same thing

. I just can't imagine letting my kid hang out with a sex offender..


.. whether it was a parent or not, and the best friend.

The daughter obviously knows about this and the guy is apparently not shy about it. I just don't think I'd be comfortable letting my child hang out with a convicted sex offender.

[Maddy McCall]

20. America's 21st Century witchhunt

I AM a parent. However, once again, parents get some false sense of security by this policy.

Someone said above that they want to know that their child is not hanging out with a pedophile.

Sad thing is, your kid probably is. If he or she goes to school sports events, community get-togethers, family barbecues, the zoo, then your kid is indeed hanging around with pedophiles. Only problem is, most of them haven't been convicted.

I hate pedophiles as much as anyone else. However, I am not naive enough to believe that this silly policy will protect my child.

And, as I've said in threads like this before, most of the people convicted for sex crimes are minorities and poverty-level people. Rich white accountants usually can buy a lawyer to get them off; therefore, background checks won't show their past crimes.

On the so-called sex offender registry for my county, all offenders are black. I know of child molesters who are rich and white who aren't listed. Yet the eighteen year old black male who had sex with his white sixteen year old girlfriend--whose parents pressed statutory rape charges--is listed. The sex-offender's registry is pretty damned useless, except for giving racists more ammunition with which to be frightened of the "big black boogey man."

When the sex offender's registry reflects the true number/kind of people who commit sex crimes, then maybe I'll feel differently.

[frictionlessO]

31. If I may swear for you Maddy??

Fuck yes!

This and many other attempts at keeping our children safe are as false in their design as airport security.

You all want a pacifier?? Fine beleive that we know who most of the bad guys are and we have them in a completely unflawed database just so people aren't wrongly persecuted after having done their time!!

The only way to protect your kids is to empower them with info and training. Your brother might do it or your pastor or their teacher or the guy dressed as superman at the frigging amusement park. Keep track and teach 'em well and hope for the best.

Im also interested if the "Kill em all" (and torture them while youre at it) crowd feel he (the father) should've been killed and tortured when he was 16... maybe later like 18???

[bennywhale]

40. The overwhelming amount of cases are

also by a family friend or member. This authoritarian measure will be attacking a problem that is out of all proportion

[Trillo]

32. Why not just reserve the right of refusal of service

for anyone and everyone who acts inappropriately?

Does this means that by purchasing a ticket, all purchasers have given their consent to have a background check run on them by a private corporation? Shouldn't background checks be done by law enforcement instead?

[tammywammy]

42. They do that already

This is an in-addition-to policy (from what I've read).

At Six Flags (the one I worked at, and I left there Sept '99) they can not allow you to enter if you're wearing a t-shirt that's offensive (example, a naked lady/man, swear words things along those lines), but they'll offer you a blank white tshirt (for $5 of course). Also, at the one where I worked, no one could wear bandanas...even if you were a family with 3 little kids, they just weren't allowed.

Acting inappropriately you could be kicked out if you were caught having sex in the park (and I did see people kicked out for that, and trust me there's cameras someone will catch you). Also, I did see one night, a cross dresser that was kicked out (and she was wearing a short dress and high heels not something I'd think you'd wear to a theme park).

Also, the park I worked at, had a few police officers (not just security guards) there every day. So, if they wanted to run a background check, I would assume that the police would be involved, not just park officials.

Really, I just see this as an attempt by Six Flags to present a "safe" environment and being tough, but really if someone was doing anything inappropriate they'd be kicked out anyways.

[BiggJawn]

34. WHY is that man allowed anywhere NEAR his daughters????

Hey, just getting with the program on how DUer's feel...
Check out some of the posts HERE if you don't believe me...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1481698&mesg_id=1481698&page=

almost 20 years ago, he's not re-offended, and it seems to me that if he's allowed to be with his daughters, then the courts and his ex-wife don't feel that he's a danger...

"... sex offenders are social outcasts despite whatever steps they may have taken to rehabilitate themselves."

He said a fucking MOUTHFUL (no pun intended)

Today, "Sex Offenders". tomorrow, Liberals, Atheists, "Rabble-rousers", Union members...

But you people don't GET IT, because this shit's being done to "PROTECT Children"....

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. Boo hoo hoo.

I feel so bad for this guy who molested an eight-year-old.

[Gyre]

45. Any of you 'down with totalitarianism' types have small children?

I didn't think so. Sex offenders should be branded. Megan's Law and this are decent steps in the right direction.

Gyre

[w4rma]

46. Why is he listed as a sex offender when he committed his crime as a minor?

He was 16 years old. Isn't that information supposed to be wiped from his public record at 18?

Nonetheless this is a really wierd article.

[Pert_UK]

47. ""I am 350 percent for protecting children" - WTF?!?!?!

Why on EARTH do people do this? Why do people just randomly insert numbers to show how much they support things?

I mean, I can kind of understand the idea of saying "I'll give 110% effort" - even though it's physically, mathematically and logically impossible to give more than 100% effort, the "110%" suggests that you will be trying to exceed your best......but coming up with "350%"?!?!?!!?

Insane, bizarre and ridiculous.

Rant over.

P.

[WatchWhatISay]

48. Just guess who threw this out there?

The Right would just love for us to come to the defense of sex offenders! This is no coinsidence. Believe whatever you will, but do not let them talk us into jumping on this bandwagon right now, when they are starting to reap the "rewards" of much of their recent overreaching.

[shawn703]

50. I think most of the Left would be against sex offenders too

The only group I can think of that would come to their defense is the ACLU. But they also come to the defense of the KKK and other groups that most of society finds undesirable.