Troops Who Shot Italian in Iraq Cleared, U.S. Confirms

[tuvor]

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The U.S. military confirmed on Saturday that it will not discipline troops who shot dead an Italian intelligence agent in Baghdad two months ago.

A statement said that a report into the killing of Nicola Calipari and wounding of the Italian hostage whose freedom he had just secured found that the soldiers had acted correctly in firing on their car. Opposition politicians in Italy had already condemned the findings when they were leaked earlier this week.

(That's the whole item.)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/iraq_italy_usa_dc;_ylt=Aj5Iq81QNC7qKPxqMOJDSdADW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[w4rma]

1. Negroponte probably should be the one punished for ordering them there(nt)

[Ms. Clio]

2. How astonishing

Nobody could ever have predicted this!

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

3. Next they will be telling us

the guy killed himself and the troops were innocent bystanders. Back when all this shit was beginning I'd write that it was like being on a bad acid trip except you wouldn't ever come down. Now its even worse. Geeze, the Italians had previously cleared checkpoints. How did this happen? Have you noticed we've not been told what led to the troops firing on the car? That is missing from the dialogue. What is the reason they shot at the car?

[OneBlueSky]

4. there they go again . . . jumping in front of American bullets . . .

will these furiners never learn? . . .

(sarcasm off) . . .

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Of course they were cleared

they were just following orders to hit all Toyota's carrying recently released Italian hostages.

[rocktivity]

6. But was it confirmed by the ITALIANS?

:shrug:
rocknation

[glitch]

7. How come we don't know these troops names? Has anyone seen

the names disclosed? I haven't, and I might have missed it. This article doesn't mention names. In other "accidents" the troops names are disclosed.

[AndyTiedye]

10. They Weren't Exactly Regular Troops

They were a hit squad.
They probably HAVE been disciplined.
Because SHE made it out alive.

[NYC]

31. A link to the 37 page document

that includes the names, etc.

http://www.repubblica.it/index.html

Click on the "Con Gli Omissis" part of the red link: SENZA OMISSIS/CON GLI OMISSIS, located to the right of this picture of a computer screen.



Originally posted at:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1437886&mesg_id=1437910

[glitch]

32. Leaked! Now we're going to get some answers. Thanks for posting. nt

[donco6]

8. GASP!

Really? Wow, who'da thunk it?

:sarcasm:

[IChing]

9. Here is the first photo

I have seen from the back of the car. I got it from an Italian newspaper. I have seen all the other photos of the car on the army truck. Notice the back window is shot out.

[Igel]

14. Looking more closely at the car might help determine the

direction the projectile that shattered the window was flying ... but probably not, if it was the kind of glass that crumbles. A window can be shot out from the front as well as from the back.

I don't think the back window's probative.

[valis]

18. The autopsy revealed EXACTLY the bullet path.

I don't remember right now, but I think it entered the left side of the head just abover the ear (I read it at the time, when the autopsy results came out).

[Igel]

30. Yes, but that doesn't address what I said.

By what trajectory did the bullet get into the car's cabin?

One account had Calipari, talking, then grab her from the front in order to shelter her. He was hit and slumped. What seems likely?

Most likely he'd be in front of her. A bullet passed through his head into her chest, so his head was low, in other words, he didn't obviously push her down and fall on top of her. If he was in front, and the bullet went through him and into Sgrena, the bullet wasn't fired from behind the car unless it was a self-propelled bullet that could do a 180 degree turn in flight. Which side of Sgrena he was on is immaterial. The wound requires some bullet moving through the cabin more or less from front to back, the exact angle and height being indeterminate. If he was high enough, it could have come over or through the dashboard; if he was low, through a door.

We know some bullets came from the front; and one coming from the front could easily pass through both windows. Calipari's wound is easily consistent with a generally front-to-back trajectory (even if skewed a bit). There's no fact so far requiring a bullet to come from the back, at least none that I know of. So I don't assume any.

[Frederik]

22. Problem with that

is that the front window was intact, in the earlier photos we've seen (the entire front was). So the bullets came from the side or the back.

[Tempest]

11. Italy refused to sign off on the investigation

And have started a criminal investigation.

[IChing]

12. Photos of the report

[valis]

19. Wow, all classified...

[IChing]

13. Italy says US adm. is arguing with Army

CALIPARI: BERLUSCONI, INTERNAL USA PROBLEMS WITH PENTAGON
(AGI) - Rome, Italy, Apr 28 - "The USA administration is having internal problems with the Pentagon. The Pentagon is taking a stance, while the Administration would want this position to be more flexible", said Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on the Calipari case. "We are treating with Sembler who represents the US administration, who has to deal with the Pentagon. It is not easy. We are working, we hope to reach a conclusion, we understand the difficulties that the US are having". (AGI) -

http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200504281659-1141-RT1-CRO-0-NF82&page=1&id=agionline-eng.italyonline

[Frederik]

23. Hmm...

I think it's Berlusconi who is doing some damage control. "My buddy Bush agrees with us, you see, but those bastards in the military..."

[dxdem]

15. Abu Ghraib was

the result of a few bad apples, Gitmo is a health spa, and * showed up for his Guard duty.

[Igel]

16. It's not a open-and-shut case.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050429/pl_afp/italyusiraqsatellite_050429162837;_ylt=Arjg3cLaI9SskuMfdpXZv8GsOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl is intriguing; but to gauge the reliability implies seeing the satellite images, and they're not likely to be released.

At the same time, Sgrena's husband, in early reports, said that she saw a light shined on the car and then the shooting happened. But then the presence of the light disappeared.

The soldiers' names are probably being witheld to avoid helping the Italian courts.

Tough call: Is the US lying to protect the reputation of its government and soldiers, or is Italy lying to protect the reputation of its government and agents?

It's the kind of question I don't need to answer.

[Henny Penny]

28. "its not an open and shut case...."

Certainly nothing open about it.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[IndianaGreen]

17. The Waffen SS did not see themselves as criminals

and neither does the US military. Let's take away their immunity and start shipping some of these "heroes" to The Hague to face the International Crimes Court.

[Southern Dem 2005]

20. Well, this makes my defense of the military look bad

[Frederik]

21. Interesting

1. The troops involved haven't been identified. I believe the unit has been identified vaguely (like 3rd ID, not much more specific than that I think).

2. The "checkpoint" was just a "tactical", temporary checkpoint.

3. The standard procedure would be to let one or two low-ranking "bad apples" get a light punishment, so "everybody" would be happy. Of course this is not standard procedure in checkpoint shootings, but when such a "prominent" person is the victim of one, under such questionable circumstances, that is what one would expect would happen to avoid a diplomatic incident.

4. But instead, full acquittal, even when the other country disputes the factual basis. Which makes me think that maybe, just maybe, they weren't ordinary soldiers?

[MisterP]

24. heck, even with "ordinary" car-gunnings, the soildiers're let off the hook

if it's even covered, the "they're skeert" excuse crops up and the whole thing is dismissed

[Frederik]

25. Yes, I'm aware of that

my point was, this wasn't an "ordinary" checkpoint incident, if nothing else because the person killed was an Italian intelligence agent and a recently released journalist was wounded. So it's a diplomatic incident between the US and Italy, which you'd think they would try to minimize, as Italy is one of the few allies they have left.

[MisterP]

27. there's that too: Mussolini v2.0's position is also becoming precipit-

ous: 90% still oppose the invasion, his party's in the garbage can, and this Mediterranean outpost of the Chimpire may fall from the pressure

[Frederik]

29. Yes, that's why

he's now saying that it's the Pentagon that's uncooperative, that Bush basically agrees with him... if he wants to save his ass, he's got to pull the troops out though.

[IChing]

26. Its hard work dealing with the US

"We are treating with Sembler (US amb.) who represents the US administration, who has to deal with the Pentagon. It is not easy." from my post.