Woman claims Panhandle officers abused her with Taser (FL)

[struggle4progress]

By CURT ANDERSON
Associated Press Writer

MIAMI -- A woman arrested .. for staying too long at a .. motel says she was stunned multiple times ... Skelly's .. attorney .. said there is little evidence .. the 110-pound woman posed such a danger to police that repeated use of a Taser was required ... Larry Caskey, director of the .. Department of Corrections, acknowledged Wednesday that his officers used a Taser on Skelly nine times. But Caskey said she was .. combative, attempted to wriggle out of handcuffs, escape from a patrol car and bite her own hand ... <A> police report .. says .. Skelly was arrested .. when the motel's owners were unable to determine whether she would leave or stay another night. Medical records .. show .. Skelly's body bore .. marks of "numerous Taser sites" .. and that the afternoon of her arrest she was stunned with a Taser .. while being treated at North Okaloosa Medical Center ...

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050420/APN/504201040

[liberalnurse]

1. Well, she settled down after that....didn't she?

These little street crack/heroine "WHOE's" can really be obnoxious, dangerous and threatening. Thats how they survive. Don't let her body weight mislead you.......

snip>

But Caskey said she was extremely combative, attempted to wriggle out of handcuffs, escape from a patrol car and bite her own hand - and an internal review of the matter concluded Taser use was justified.


very dangerous!

snip>

When he placed her under arrest for trespassing and handcuffed her, Ratteliff said, Skelly "began to fight" and yelled "Ron, go away, you are not God," later kicking Ratteliff in the chest and stomach as he put her in his police car. She was later charged with resisting arrest with violence and faces a May 3 court arraignment.

[struggle4progress]

2. You left out the part where she got tasered in the hospital ...

... for throwing herself on the floor ...

[liberalnurse]

3. She was being a threat.

Unpredictable and dangerous. It was a good call.

[struggle4progress]

4. I have no way of knowing whether your view will prevail in court.

It is unclear to me exactly what supports your characterization of the woman as a 'little street crack/heroin whore.' According to TV news, "Skelly was staying at a motel in Valparaiso and police were called when she was 20 minutes late checking out" ( http://www.local10.com/news/4399639/detail.html ), which really doesn't sound to me like a claim she was hooking or tripping.

However, the police claim that the woman "attempted to wriggle out of handcuffs, escape from a patrol car and bite her own hand" as a justification for taser use, strongly suggests that she was actually in the police car and handcuffed when the taser was used. Meanwhile, meanwhile, curiously, TV news ( http://www.local10.com/news/4399639/detail.html ) reported "A department spokesperson said no Valparaiso officer used a Taser gun on Skelly, but added she could not speak for corrections staff at the jail."

An attempt to "bite her own hand" appears to me a self-destructive threat, rather than a dangerous threat to the arresting officer, especially if she were handcuffed in the patrol car at the time, and the mishmash of accusations sounds to me as if possibly an officer lost his/her temper.

I'm strongly inclined to assume that in a hospital setting a person who is actually a danger to herself or others can be treated immediately by means more in keeping with modern medical practice than electrified darts. Since there's no indication the woman was committed for psychiatric assessment, I find your claims, that she was dangerous and unpredictable, unconvincing.

It is, of course, completely unclear to me exactly which statements made by the various parties here are true and which are not, and I am not committed (for example) to any view that the woman is a saint.

[1monster]

5. They called the cops because she was 20 MINUTES late checking out!!!

I need to commit that motel name to memory to make absolutely sure that I never stay their if I go to Miami again. And I'll make sure to tell all my friends and acquaintences too.

[ahem]

7. 1monster, it wasn't in Miami. The hotel is in Valparaiso (north FL) n/t

[Zhade]

35. Ahhhh, Valparaiso. It's all clearer now.

I grew up in Fort Walton Beach, and this sounds par for the course, unfortunately.

[liberalnurse]

8. She was an asshole and provoked the situation.

I don't hear anyone talking about her responsibility to comply. You guys just want to seek a victim and cry foul because it's easy.You dare not look into the abyss of the ghetto and deal with the vermin. Out of control folks cause harm...it's that simple. Controlling the scene prevents injury and deaths. The Taser is a blessing to law enforcement.

[LeighAnn]

11. Taser Watch

http://www.newsfromreality.com/taser

At least she didn't die like a lot of them. Too many of these stories. Why didn't they just shoot her, or starve her to death? It's Florida.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Your boardname says one thing, but....

...the vast majority of your posts say something quite different.

You don't have to be a "bleeding heart" to realize that the taser is being used inappropriately by some police officers. In some cases, the act of a police oficer shocking someone with a taser...the elderly and the very young...and/or shocking someone multiple times is absolutely criminal, IMHO.

[liberalnurse]

24. Acknowledged, but lets be adult

here and focus on the that there has been the rare occasion of "quick draw' by an officer but the Taser is a safe, effective tool and used prudently 99.9 % of the time nationally... It is not criminal to multi-shock anyone under the pretense of protection. The officers are not just sitting on a park bench shooting of their Tasers at citizen walking down the street. They are involved in a crisis call summoned to the scene by the citizens under duress. There is always more to the story that what hype has been postured by the news or a claimants lawyer.

If you were the citizen calling the police, you would cry crocodile tears if they did not keep you safe. The shoe indeed could be on your foot tomorrow. So, just look outside the box and judge ther Taser tool as a much safer means of protection, less fatal than a 9 mm.hand gun. Thats all I ask and why I speak up here at all the one sided Taser posts.

[Jose Diablo]

29. I know there is a tendency of law abiding citizens

to give the police the benefit of the doubt in all situations. However, I should point-out it is quite common for the police to use techniques to escalate encounters during an arrest that make it seem like they were were resisted in trying to make the arrest.

For example, it is not uncommon for an 'officer of the law' to use a pin and poke someone while they are 'only trying to subdue' the person being arrested. This of course causes the person to squirm, thus resisting arrest.

Then naturally, the use of the cattle prod can be justified as they were only trying to do their job and the cattle prod, in theory is non-fatal. Is it possible, just possible, that the police are not 'just doing their jobs', that sometimes they enjoy inflicting pain on other people? The cattle prod is a perfect tool to inflict pain.

You seem to think the police are just wonderful, and believe anything they may say must be the truth. Maybe you haven't encountered the same police many here have.

[struggle4progress]

31. It's not safe to get a dart in the eye:

Concerns over safety of Taser stun guns
By Gary Hughes and Fergus Shiel
April 20, 2005

New concerns about the safety of Taser stun guns used by Victoria Police have been raised by the case of an Adelaide man hit in the eye by one of the weapon's fishhook-like darts.

Surgeons from Adelaide's Queen Elizabeth Hospital saved the 50-year-old man's eye after operating to remove the barb.

Details of the case, the first documented example of a Taser dart entering a victim's eye, have been published in this month's American Journal of Ophthalmology. <snip>

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Concerns-over-safety-of-Taser-stun-guns/2005/04/19/1113854203255.html?oneclick=true

[struggle4progress]

32. Would you support using a 9mm against someone because ...

... she threatened to bite her own hand or threw herself on the ground?

[liberalnurse]

33. No, but use of a Taser may or may not

of been my choice. It would be on the list of options. I probably would of let her bite her own hand..as long as not digits were being removed..I sense she wouldn't do it for too long....but ya never know. If it was another persons hand, well that kicks things up a notch. I support the Taser because it can make the 9mm obsolete.

[ninkasi]

15. This will be a rare thing for me...

To respond as I am about to do to your post. However, when you make statements such as "you dare not look into the abyss of the ghetto and deal with the vermin"... I can agree that the ghetto is a place of misery, poverty, and hopelessness.

When fellow human beings call others vermin, though, it's easy to see why so many people trapped in poverty do not feel compelled to act as you would like them to do. They are not vermin. They are humans.

I realize that some are trapped in a vicious cycle, born to teenage mothers who are not mature enough to raise a child; having people who are better off come to the poor areas to buy dope, and putting up with substandard housing. But don't for a moment think that they don't know that too many people have this attitude, of thinking of them as vermin who need to be controlled.

I don't think anybody has any particular wish to see a victim, but the plain and simple truth is that sometimes the police over react, and this might have been one of those times. Please, though, don't refer to people who come from poverty stricken areas as vermin.

I have no wish to offend you by calling this to your attention, but an attitude like that solves nothing, and can only make tensions worse.

[liberalnurse]

26. I see you point and have advocated

repeatedly for the poor, I still do as I just attended a Rally at our Statehouse against the Budget Bill. I'm referencing the criminal element and they are a nasty group to say the least....That is the group the law enforcement must contain 24/7. I realize too that most people are shielded from this element and do not understand.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. IMHO, anyone who believes this use of the taser is justified...

...should report to the nearest police station and demand to be tasered multiple times.

[liberalnurse]

27. You first......

Hang out a jail/booking area for a week and deal with the clients being booked-in face to face with your heart on your sleeve. It will soon be ripped out of your chest and they will ask for more and blame it on you.

[soup]

20. re: "She was an asshole and provoked the situation."

>>"You dare not look into the abyss of the ghetto and deal with the vermin."<<

and from an earlier post:

>>"These little street crack/heroine "WHOE's" can really be obnoxious, dangerous and threatening."<<


Ms. Skelly is a mentally ill woman, suffering from a bipolar disorder. She had recently been released from a psychiatric hospital in Vermont before moving to Florida.

I can only hope you will apologize.

---

Taser was used multiple times, woman claims

North Florida officials justify their actions

By Ihosvani Rodriguez
Miami Bureau
Posted April 21 2005

>>According to an April 11 investigation report by jail officials, Skelly was calm when first brought into the jail. But after an officer removed her handcuffs, Skelly became combative, the report said. A female officer fired the 50,000-volt Taser when Skelly refused to go into a holding cell.

Skelly fell and hit her head on the concrete floor, causing a cut above her right eye that needed three stitches, the report said. When Skelly continued to fight with officers, they stunned her again.

After the Taser did not fire correctly, an officer used the stun gun as a "hand-held" device and stunned Skelly "an undetermined amount of times," said the jail's director, Larry Caskey.

Skelly said she pretended she was dead to stop officers from stunning her.<<
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/miami/sfl-dtaser21apr21,0,7252877.story?coll=sfla-news-miami

[retread]

21. You are saying "Comply or die, vermin" ???

*

[Voltaire99]

22. About the "abyss of the ghetto" where, you say, the "vermin" come from...

Where do you get off stereotyping poor people? What a disgraceful outburst.

And how dare you characterize these posters as just "want(ing) to seek a victim and cry foul because it's easy"?

To the contrary, struggle4progress has written a very careful consideration of the events--actually parsing the article's evidence, which is a far cry more than you've done.

You may call yourself "liberalnurse," but to me you sound more like Nurse Ratchet.

[liberalnurse]

30. You don't even know me.

I'm a deeply compassionate and professional nurse who is quite liberal! I support the least lethal mode of restrain ...the Taser instead of a crime scene elevating to the use of a gun or resulting in a senseless loss of life. The Taser is a blessing for all.

Calling me names, without even knowing me at all.... is a sign of ignorance. You loose any credibility. At least I am in the field seeing things for myself and have the courage to speak up. What is your experience?

[bpilgrim]

34. "I'm a deeply compassionate and professional nurse"

we know ya :hi:

peace

[liberalnurse]

37. You give me a much needed

warm fuzzy. Thanks.:loveya:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shanti]

6. hmmm

are you partnered with a police officer? you never fail to pipe up and support them whenever tazer stories are posted. you aren't seeing a pattern here?

[liberalnurse]

9. Indirectly, I am connected

to law enforcement. I speak out because the consistent Taser posts are crying for the assailant like they had no responsibility for the end result. On the contrary, law enforcement prefers to end things much less aggressively. Taser action is not an impulsive choice but a controlling choice to contain an out of control scene wherein harm is a predictable outcome without deescalating an explosive situation. The threads here don't reflect the entire story, just the news hype version. Thats why I evoke discussion....to get folks thinking things through.

My gut instincts tell me there is much more to learn about this gal. There is more to the story.

[Spangle]

10. I'm also indirectly connected

They are HUMAN. Saints, Sinners and everything in between. For those who are not "connected", there are enough cop shows out there to get a lite taste of what cops go through when dealing with people. It's a pretty sad job.

Here is the problem. We can't be using them like we are passing out candy. We can not start thinking of them as "no big deal." And that is exactlly what it's sounding like is happening.

Cops have such a bad rep, that $$ is spent on PR. Getting cops in friendly situations with the public, etc. So they are not seen as "bad guys." So kids learn not to be scared of them.

This idea of use the taser for every little peep... no amount of PR is going to help. It's as smart a PR stunt as sending 100 riot officers in full gear to a peace rally of 10 people.

This smells of KGB type scare.

With a GUN, cops know they have to be damn sure they know what they are doing and damn sure they have tried everything else. With a taser and thinking it's nothing....

These are NEW and have to decided the RULES of WHEN, WHERE, and WHY they should be used. Not just cops, but citizens. So I hate to tell ya, these storys are going to be reported and dicussed. All in order to help UNDERSTAND what is going on.

[liberalnurse]

12. The group I'm with are very respectable

and discrete when it comes to using the Taser. I realize there are half-brained cowboys out there and they piss me off! I don't want the few to ruin it for all. I see the Taser as a terrific tool. Newspapers like to sell newspapers and typically, they only get the claimant's side of the story...not the ugly part of the escalation which lead to the use of the Taser.

I do agree the cowboys need to be weeded out and the rules, standards to be national. Our group would be an excellent example.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. A minimum of 40 people have died as a result of taser usage...

...sounds like a lot of "cowboys" to me.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. My "gut instincts" tell me that using a taser multiple times on a single..

...human is unacceptable.

Tell me the purpose behind tasering an elderly lady in her late 70s in a nursing home, and tasering a child under the age of ten? How about a man suffering a seizure who was tasered 3 times and who later died? Are you trying to tell us that the police had run out of options with these people?

[tallahasseedem]

14. There's something going on with cops and tasers...

here in the panhandle. Hell, just a couple of weeks ago a soldier who just returned from Iraq was tasered in a case of mistaken identity.

[screembloodymurder]

23. Face it, there's a % of cops that ENJOY INFLICTING PAIN

The taser gives them an excuse for their fun.

[Mojorabbit]

36. If she was unresponsive

they should have left her in the car. If she had had any spinal injuries she would probably be paralyzed after being removed like that. I can't believe they do not have basic medical knowledge esp if responding to various auto accidents in their line of duty.