WaPo: What's a Press Corps To Do? (press considering revolt against WH)

[grasswire]

This is the most important thing on the media you will read this month. It's Dan Froomkin's report of the National Press Club's panel on Bush administration secrecy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/

<snip>
The panel was called "Confronting the Seduction of Secrecy: Toward Improved Access to Government Information on the Record," and it featured a head-table heavy with Washington bureau chiefs past and present as well as advocates for aggressive, accountability-oriented journalism. There was much talk, on the one hand, about what panelists called the unprecedented secrecy with which the Bush administration operates; and on the other hand, about the need for reporters to occasionally grant confidentiality to sources who are taking a risk by exposing information that the public has a right to know.

But sticking in pretty much everyone's craw was the persistence of those maddening White House briefings where a senior administration official stands in front of an auditorium full of reporters, says nothing remotely controversial, and yet insists on being cloaked in anonymity.

From the reporters' perspective, there is no excuse for it. The anonymity doesn't engender frankness; all it does is hinder accountability and undermine journalistic credibility. But what to do?

Bill Kovach, director of the Committee of Concerned Journalists, described the short-lived revolt he tried to lead when he was Washington Bureau chief of the New York Times in the 1980s. "A few other reporters joined us at first when we asked briefings be kept open and left the room if they were not. But the support didn't last long," he said. "The main argument from other journalists was that they would surrender their independence if they took part in such group actions," he said.

But Kovach said that in this era of spin and misinformation, it's time to head to the ramparts again. "And maybe if we're lucky we can find that cooperation and collaboration are not threats to our independence but are the key to strengthen the value and the appeal of a journalism of verification to the American people."

Tom Curley, president and chief executive of the Associated Press, agreed: "We have to be able to walk out of the room when somebody goes off the record."

[grasswire]

1. and here's what Froomkin's boss says...

...about the coordinated effort to walk out en masse:

But a forceful diverging view came from someone who wasn't even there. Overholser read a message that had been sent to her from Washington Post Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr., an outspoken advocate of newsroom independence, who said, "We just don't believe in unified action. . . . We can't participate in the kind of discussion you are proposing."

[rodeodance]

4. well that sure put a corker on any of idea of a press revolt!!

[Cha]

2. Rots o Ruck you sycophantic

press corpse!

[Pirate Smile]

3. Here is an interesting part

"Several panelists said that another response to Bush's control of the press should be to report more about the process the White House is using to achieve it.

In other words: More stories about the endlessly repeated talking points, the merciless spin, the fake news, the screened audiences, and the increasingly sophisticated public relations apparatus.

I, of course, sat back in my chair in the audience and thought: Oh! Like White House Briefing!"

[JerseygirlCT]

9. I agree

if the WH is trying to substitute talking points for news, then the news ought to report on those machinations -- in exhaustive detail to match the extent of the attempted manilpulation. Exposing the attempts may push for some actual information coming out. At the least, the WH machine is exposed for what it is.

Then the journalists should all go out and find the news without depending on spoon-feeding from WH officials.

[Pirate Smile]

11. Exactly. The WH Correspondents job now is to simply repeat

the WH talking points on camera or in print.

It is insanity and why we don't trust the media anymore.

The real story is exactly what that quote above says. That is the story the media needs to get out there.

[OzarkDem]

61. Is that what they learned in J-school?

To sit back and repeat WH talking points?

I would hope not, unless the j-school standards have really fallen from the last 20 yrs.

What do they have to lose by telling the truth? That's the part I don't get. What do they possibly think they gain from becoming a propaganda tool?

[Pirate Smile]

63. That isn't what they were teaching a decade ago when I got my

undergraduate degree in Journalism.

I've been so unbelievably disappointed in the press over the last 5 years.

They all need a good history lesson in the role of the press and the First Amendment.

No, 9/11 doesn't change all the rules.

No, 24 news channels don't change all the rules.

No, the rise of Faux news doesn't change all the rules.

Do your friggin jobs. Your job isn't to become a celebrity. BE a Reporter, not a talking points/spin reciter.

[chomskysright]

21. YES!!!!: the news ought to report on those machinations

[BrendaStarr]

30. Agreed but at best we will only get the newspapers and magazines

to write about the mechanisms, I believe.

And the percentage of people who read their news is at record lows.

On the other hand, the readership of message boards and chat rooms is high.

So if we would each devote some time daily to visiting mixed message boards and chat rooms to pass on this vast amount of knowledge we collect here we would be a heck of a lot better off in this country.

[MsMagnificent]

They think it, but don't write it

To us, the public, that makes no difference whatsoever. Quite simply they betray us, we who subscribe, therefore pay their wages.

Exactly what the politians do, as a matter of fact.

[Stephen The Liberal]

50. only a SMALL part of their income comes from subscribers

Most of the income comes from advertisers and the biggest corporations are the biggest advertisers and most reporters work for news organizations that are owned by big cooperations who executives are part the political Donner class that would be quick to tell any reporters boss to clamp down on any reporter or group of reporters that stepped out of line. The fact that they report any thing at all is some thing of accomplishment. That is why I go to the net to get the news. Like this sight and others.

[MsMagnificent]

69. Good point, thanks

And welcome to DU! :hi:

[Dulcinea]

78. This is so long overdue.

It remains to be seen if they actually do it!

[Jack Rabbit]

5. A revolt of some kind is long overdue

Many of us believe that the media is lockstep with the White House. Their credibility has been damaged.

A better approach to walking out of "anonymous" briefings would be the one proposed toward the end:

Several panelists said that another response to Bush's control of the press should be to report more about the process the White House is using to achieve it.

In other words: More stories about the endlessly repeated talking points, the merciless spin, the fake news, the screened audiences, and the increasingly sophisticated public relations apparatus.

[JDPriestly]

10. Mainstream news has missed too many Bush scandals --

voter fraud, AWOL, no WMDs, ignoring Bin Laden until it was too late, lying about the August 2001 intelligence memo, Gannon/Guckert, Powell lies before the UN, what's happening in the Plame leak case (haven't heard for months -- have the charges, if any, been mothballed?). The list goes on and on. Mainstream news just does not serve its readers/viewers/listeners.

[Stephen The Liberal]

51. you are right

They serve their advertiser and oneness

[TankLV]

81. Actually, "follow-up" questions - repeated till a satisfactory answer is

given, would be nice.

You, know, one guy asks a question, bunkerboy laughs, and, oh, I dunno, instead of everyone else in the room laughing along, wouldn't it be nice, that, even if someone else is called, the next, and the next and the next persons all ask the same or follow-up questions till they get the WHOLE story?

Just my ignorant ramblings.

I seem to remember they used to do this sort of thing.

Or, just maybe, if they all had any gonads, THEY COULD TURN THEIR BACKS AND WALK OUT EN MASSE and bunkerboy would be talking to an empty room?

Naaaaaaaa!

[havocmom]

6. They need to make a decision: Are they journalists or carrier pigeons?

Do they work at getting to the bottom of a story or do they just stand in line and wait to be handed the message the malAdministration wants published?

They are not secure either way, so they might as well be journalists.

[Liberty Belle]

8. Funny, I got a call today from a local community paper editor.

She said the publisher wants me to write an editorial on fake news/propaganda!

I wonder if it's coincidence, or if some in the press are waking up. Editor & Publisher ran something on this, chastising the media for the fake news scandal. Maybe they're taking it to heart, at least at some places.

[Robbien]

18. I believe this story is just cover. The press is trying to convey it has

free will, when they really do not.

They are saying "this is not right and maybe we will tell you about it", but if they were real independent reporters they would have already reported about it, over and over again.

This is just CYA journalism I believe.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

28. Bingo. Playing to the interneters who KNOW THEY ARE CIA'S LIARS.

Many of us know about OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD, the CIA's steering of the mainstream media for the last 50 years.

The msm is pretending to 'deal' with the part they play in the theater of fake democracy called American Fascism because they think it will abate the outrage as WE WHO READ ON THE INTERNET tell the rest of America watching tv THEY ARE BEING LIED TO CONSTANTLY.

Please read this and send it to everyone you know:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-overclass.html
(The Origins of the Overclass by Steve Kangas)

Not surprisingly, the CIA began a mission in the late 1940s to recruit American journalists on a wide scale, a mission it dubbed Operation MOCKINGBIRD. The agency wanted these journalists not only to relay any sensitive information they discovered, but also to write anti-communist, pro-capitalist propaganda when needed.

The instigators of MOCKINGBIRD were Frank Wisner, Allan Dulles, Richard Helms and Philip Graham. Graham was the husband of Katherine Graham, today’s publisher of the Washington Post. In fact, it was the Post’s ties to the CIA that allowed it to grow so quickly after the war, both in readership and influence. (8)

MOCKINGBIRD was extraordinarily successful. In no time, the agency had recruited at least 25 media organizations to disseminate CIA propaganda. At least 400 journalists would eventually join the CIA payroll, according to the CIA’s testimony before a stunned Church Committee in 1975. (The committee felt the true number was considerably higher.) The names of those recruited reads like a Who's Who of journalism:

* Philip and Katharine Graham (Publishers, Washington Post)
* William Paley (President, CBS)
* Henry Luce (Publisher, Time and Life magazine)
* Arthur Hays Sulzberger (Publisher, N.Y. Times)
* Jerry O'Leary (Washington Star)
* Hal Hendrix (Pulitzer Prize winner, Miami News)
* Barry Bingham Sr., (Louisville Courier-Journal)
* James Copley (Copley News Services)
* Joseph Harrison (Editor, Christian Science Monitor)
* C.D. Jackson (Fortune)
* Walter Pincus (Reporter, Washington Post)
* ABC
* NBC
* Associated Press
* United Press International
* Reuters
* Hearst Newspapers
* Scripps-Howard
* Newsweek
* magazine Mutual Broadcasting System
* Miami Herald
* Old Saturday Evening Post
* New York Herald-Tribune

Perhaps no newspaper is more important to the CIA than the Washington Post, one of the nation’s most right-wing dailies. Its location in the nation’s capitol enables the paper to maintain valuable personal contacts with leading intelligence, political and business figures. Unlike other newspapers, the Post operates its own bureaus around the world, rather than relying on AP wire services. Owner Philip Graham was a military intelligence officer in World War II, and later became close friends with CIA figures like Frank Wisner, Allen Dulles, Desmond FitzGerald and Richard Helms. He inherited the Post by marrying Katherine Graham, whose father owned it.

After Philip’s suicide in 1963, Katharine Graham took over the Post. Seduced by her husband’s world of government and espionage, she expanded her newspaper’s relationship with the CIA. In a 1988 speech before CIA officials at Langley, Virginia, she stated:

We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things that the general public does not need to know and shouldn’t. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows.

This quote has since become a classic among CIA critics for its belittlement of democracy and its admission that there is a political agenda behind the Post’s headlines.

Ben Bradlee was the Post’s managing editor during most of the Cold War. He worked in the U.S. Paris embassy from 1951 to 1953, where he followed orders by the CIA station chief to place propaganda in the European press. (9) Most Americans incorrectly believe that Bradlee personifies the liberal slant of the Post, given his role in publishing the Pentagon Papers and the Watergate investigations. But neither of these two incidents are what they seem. The Post merely published the Pentagon Papers after The New York Times already had, because it wanted to appear competitive. As for Watergate, we’ll examine the CIA’s reasons for wanting to bring down Nixon in a moment. Someone once asked Bradlee: "Does it irk you when The Washington Post is made out to be a bastion of slanted liberal thinkers instead of champion journalists just because of Watergate?" Bradlee responded: "Damn right it does!" (10)

It would be impossible to elaborate in this short space even the most important examples of the CIA/media alliance. Sig Mickelson was a CIA asset the entire time he was president of CBS News from 1954 to 1961. Later he went on to become president of Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty, two major outlets of CIA propaganda.

The CIA also secretly bought or created its own media companies. It owned 40 percent of the Rome Daily American at a time when communists were threatening to win the Italian elections. Worse, the CIA has bought many domestic media companies. A prime example is Capital Cities, created in 1954 by CIA businessman William Casey (who would later become Reagan’s CIA director). Another founder was Lowell Thomas, a close friend and business contact with CIA Director Allen Dulles. Another founder was CIA businessman Thomas Dewey. By 1985, Capital Cities had grown so powerful that it was able to buy an entire TV network: ABC.

For those who believe in "separation of press and state," the very idea that the CIA has secret propaganda outlets throughout the media is appalling. The reason why America was so oblivious to CIA crimes in the 40s and 50s was because the media willingly complied with the agency. Even today, when the immorality of the CIA should be an open-and-shut case, "debate" about the issue rages in the media. Here is but one example:

In 1996, The San Jose Mercury News published an investigative report suggesting that the CIA had sold crack in Los Angeles to fund the Contra war in Central America. A month later, three of the CIA’s most important media allies — The Washington Post, The New York Times and The Los Angeles Times — immediately leveled their guns at the Mercury report and blasted away in an attempt to discredit it. Who wrote the Post article? Walter Pincus, longtime CIA journalist. The dangers here are obvious.

[ClintonTyree]

33. Sadly, you are correct.............

The media is an arm of the government now. This just about says it all.......

"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things that the general public does not need to know and shouldn’t. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows". - Katherine Graham

It's over. We have become what we fought so hard against during the cold war. A country that has government controlled media, that is constantly lied to, whose elections are rigged, whose citizens can be spirited away to some foreign torture farm without benefit of legal counsel..........we've become the Soviet Union.

Shit. It's over. To the freepers......you haven't won. You've lost as well. It has the appearance that your side won, but the reality is that there are no sides, that nobody wins. It's all one side, and it's designed to control and misinform US. Shit.

[Stephen The Liberal]

54. It is the political Donner class that control the government

The government contrail us in behalf of the political Donner class.

[saskatoon]

75. Government controlled media.

You know what we need---A couple of THOMAS PAINES!

[Mandate My Ass]

35. My thoughts exactly. I call bullshit on this "rebellion"

the boot-licking toadies realize that the bloggers are continually outing them and we're supposed to believe after all this time they're sick of marching in lockstep. They haven't done their jobs in five years and they wouldn't have paying jobs if they did, so I doubt we'll see any significant change in reporting other than it looking like they tried to be confrontational or even objective while it'll lead to the same dead-end whitewash all the Bush scandals have enjoyed thus far.

[Liberty Belle]

72. No, my local editor is a liberal.

She's also really pissed that her competitor, another local community paper, is now running Bible verses and far-right religious rants.

[peacebird]

19. Congrats Liberty Belle! I hope you stepped up to the plate!

[Liberty Belle]

73. Yep! I'm even getting paid a token amount, and will be

writing a series of editorials from a progressive point of view!

Way less than my usual rate for journalism pieces, but at least now I can write off all my mileage and admission fees to hear progressive speakers, as part of my newest venture in writing.

Future topics will include secrecy in government and the need to redefine "moral values" in political discussions.

[ebayfool]

If they have an online edition, make sure you post a link.

That IS a good sign - give 'em a tasty one! Congrats & let us know what you write, please!

[Liberty Belle]

74. Thanks! I'll post, but unfortunately they don't have a website.

But once it runs, you guys can help by writing lots of letters to my editor praising her for her wisdom in running a story on this important issue. ;-)

[ebayfool]

77. Always happy to encourage an editor for good coverage.

She sounds like a good one, coming to you for the story ... I would love to email her. DUers will get on board for that, I'm sure!

[troubleinwinter]

12. "carrier pigeons"!

Best phrase of the day.

[rzemanfl]

46. "Carrier pigeons..." exactly! Love your line. I would be happy

to turn on CNN again if they reported something like this: "The White House had nothing truthful to say about ____________________ so we are now going to broadcast a music video interlude and will return at the top of the hour."

[leftchick]

53. A Journalist's Craft.. Read on WJ C-Span yesterday....

<snip>

A craft's essential skills

Not everyone who simply gathers information and disseminates it can be called a journalist. The craft requires skill in finding story ideas and facts, cultivating sources, and then presenting news in a way that serves the public interest. It requires specific talents for research, interviews, and distillation of information; sifting rant from reality; and then presenting it with clarity, accuracy, speed, and relevance. In giving access to a reporter, newsmakers must be mindful of those essential skills.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0318/p08s02-comv.html


the article pretty much puts down bloggers for not being like this definition above! OMG... NONE of our so called ameriKan mainstream joutnalists fit that dscription save a very,very few.

[FlemingsGhost]

7. Awwwwwww ... "Daddy Dubya" ain't treatin' you 'hos right?

Naive fools, at best. Willing accomplices, at worst.

Either way, credibility .... zero.

[rocktivity]

31. DING DING DING! FlemingsGhost, you're our grand prize winner!

Naive fools, at best. Willing accomplices, at worst...credibility: zero.

They've JUST noticed that the Bush empire is too secretive? They're JUST starting to get tired of the spin, scripting, and evasion? Then why did they REPORT the spin, scripting, and evasion? My mother would describe this summit meeting of theirs as "closing the barn door after the horse has gone out."

Sorry, but this is too little, and WAY too late. You'll have to step aside and let the REAL journalists and bloggers clean up this mess--you know, the credible ones. The only way you can recover your credibility is to confess to being naive, threatened, or "in on it," but you are now mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore. You're talking about walking out of the White House press room en masse? Duh--why not STAY OUT of the White House press room en masse, and write stories explaining why?

Jeff Gannon's downfall may turn out to be good for something after all.

:headbang:
rocknation

[creeksneakers2]

13. I suspect many of the journalists prefer it this way

They can write that they have a top level administration source. They don't have to write that they are being spoon fed by a public relations person.

[grasswire]

14. it might be time to write to Len Downie

.....it rarely does any good, but it does tick him off to get critical mail.

[email protected]

[AlCzervik]

15. well hey publish your battle plan then so the WH can see it.

Jesuschrist on a cracker, why don't they just revolt without giving the wh advance notice??

[Al-CIAda]

71. ...which is why this is all for show and to be consumed by us in an attemp

attempted display of false outrage.
They are complicit, just as some of the Dems.

The 4th estate is GONE.

====
The Truth is Crying... as the media fail America
By Anthony Wade
OpEdNews.com

As the grand altar for Bushism was being torn down after the convention and the presidential seal, which was illegal for Bush to use, was packed away; we all started looking down the stretch wondering where we go from here. Two months to go and the question I am being asked constantly is can Bush win? Of course he can. The second question however is HOW??? The answer to that question will determine the fairness of the election season. The answer is the media.

We have seen the deterioration of the effectiveness of the media over the past three years to the point that it is almost becoming obsolete for finding balance. Everyone likes to point to FOX News, because it makes an easy target. Clearly FOX should be housing their studios in the White House but this goes far beyond the fact that FOX is a propaganda arm of the Bush administration. The true foxification effect is not found on their channels but on the other “mainstream” media stations. We have heard forever, mostly from FOX, about the liberal media bias. This is obvious nonsense designed to make you think that CNN is the “Clinton News Network” and that FOX is merely balancing out the playing field. Nothing can be further from the truth anymore. No, the true foxification effect is that FOX News is so right leaning that it makes other news outlets seem moderate or mainstream, when they really are not. This was never more evident than during the MSNBC coverage of the republican convention. The “panels” that comprised the MSNBC coverage could very well have been booked by FOX staff. When the liberal voice on the panel has the last name of Reagan, we are in trouble from the outset. The democratic voices were all somewhat muted (outside of Reagan Jr., who tried his best to add some moments of sanity) while the voices on the republican side were not only shrill, but also most were former FOX News contributors.
 
http://www.opednews.com/wade_090604_truth_crying.htm

[adigal]

16. I watched this today on C-Span

and the press knows there is a problem. I think they have been taken by surprise at how aggressively this White House has spun them, and lied to them. Mike McCurry (Clinton's press secretary) defended the White House, saying that they are putting out their point of view and it is up to the press corp to challenge it. But they did not seem to be buying.

A few newspapers said that they are going to try to put on a reporter for the "truth squad."(my words, not their's) They spoke of some very important stories, and how there has been no interest - such as torture. The woman who was head of CBS in Washington was whining: But there's no interest in stories about process. Another reporter contradicted her, saying that when the stories were put in the perspective of citizens' rights, that the White House was trying to lie or spin the citizens, they got a huge response. They have to write the stories that way, because the people don't like to be lied to, and really pay attention when that happens.

They agreed to do more to show how this WH spins. My opinion: this administration has embarrassed and scared them, and now many of them are pissed. I think we will see more real journalism in the next few months. I know, in their shoes, I would be pissed.

[rocktivity]

38. Orginally posted by Adigal

...this administration has embarrassed and scared them, and now many of them are pissed...I would be pissed.
Yes, the Bush White House HAS embarrassed and scared the MSM, but that's only half the story. Their real problem is that they're being double-teamed--the NON-mainstream media are scaring and embarrassing them, too.

The MSM has been perfectly happy to go along with Bush's fake news videos, scripted press conferences, prepackaged talking points, and payoffs. More important, they were also able to dismiss the Will Pitts, Greg Palasts, Daily Kozes, and Mike Malloys as part of a luntatic fringe who commanded neither credibility nor respect. But then the Gannongate swung open!

To use an archaic journalism term, the MSM got scooped, caught completely flat-footed missing a story that anyone over the age of twelve with an Internet connection could have put together. Even worse for them, the authors of Gannongate did what journalists are SUPPOSED to do--TELL THE TRUTH completely, accurately, comprehensively, and objectively. The MSM's response was to accuse bloggers of working in basements in their pajamas and looking at the world "through a pinhole;" turn Wonkette into the Al Sharpton of liberal blogging; and make CNN's Aaron Brown come across like a father grounding his son when he interviewed BlogAmerica's founder. Also, CNN has gone as far as to hire a "blog reporter" so viewers didn't have to waste time going online to read their stories anymore.

With the public now wondering who else is on President Mightymouse's payroll, or if Jeff Gannon kept an appointment book, the right wing noise machine has got a couple of crater-sized dents in it. And if they felt driven to have this kind of a meeting, it must be showing up in the ratings!

A few newspapers...spoke of some very important stories, and how there has been no interest - such as torture. The woman who was head of CBS in Washington was whining: But there's no interest in stories about process...
If there was a lack of interest in the torture stories, it was result of the MSM's mandate to always make President Mightymouse look good. But even if that wasn't the case, is that any justification in NOT reporting the story? I thought they were in the NEWS business. This proves that they're more interested in entertaining than informing.

:headbang:
rocknation

[realFedUp]

58. Janet Leissner, CBS Washington chief

snip-
The woman who was head of CBS in Washington was whining: But there's no interest in stories about process.

( I wrote her name down because of that comment...)

Just give us the facts, we'll decide. And if you
can't give us the facts, we'll find them elsewhere.

[OzarkDem]

62. What really has them worried - $$

is money - declining revenues and viewership.

They've been willing participants in Republicans charade to spin the news for the last 12 years. The growth of the internets is putting a dent in their pocketbook.

Money talks and bs walks. The sudden concern over media manipulation is an act, at best, to convince Americans its safe to buy their newspapers again.

[NMDemDist2]

17. poodle pup press

just pants and wiggles and squats between senseless yips at no threat while the furniture is stolen right through the front door

i ain't holding my breath for any "press revolt"

[Robbien]

20. Yep. And they were probably ordered to print stories such as this

to help offset all the noise of the press just being propaganda pushers.

[BlueIris]

23. Heh. Interesting, but I'll be skeptical until I see action. n/t.

[Robbien]

26. I meant to say stories such as this WaPo one which says reporters

are upset. They are being told to print stories about how upset reporters are, not stories outlining every underhanded thing the WH press officials make them do. They will continue cranking out the WH propaganda just as they are told.

[confludemocrat]

37. Yeah, a "false dawn"

The current crowd and their bosses are terminally compromised. Some more fundamental changes need to come about.

Don't count on the WH press as it is currently composed for the foreseeable future. We must fight in different ways that leaves them out of the picture.

[confludemocrat]

39. As said above, if this was on the level,

the attack (to use a war analogy) would begin with some substance, not a proclamation of an attack.

[grasswire]

22. a combative clip from yesterday's briefing

David Gregory, NBC, v. Scott McClellan

MR. McCLELLAN: When people are rendered to another country, we seek assurances that they won't be tortured. When we return known terrorists to their countries of origin, or we render people to countries, we want to have assurances that they're not going to be tortured, because that's a value that we hold very dearly. And let's understand, though, that we are talking about -- I mean, Terry brought up earlier today, Khalid Shaykh Mohammad. Khalid Shaykh Mohammad is a known terrorist who is responsible for overseeing the attacks of September 11th that led to the killing of 3,000 innocent civilians in America. But I make very clear, again, what our view is.

Q I know. I know what the view is. I know what Khalid Shaykh Mohammad evidently did. That still doesn't answer the question. Does the President believe that there is no torture going on in any of these countries that are receiving prisoners that are part of this rendition program? Is he sure of that?

MR. McCLELLAN: David, we comply with our treaties and with our -- with our --

Q That's a non-answer, and you know it.

MR. McCLELLAN: David, will you let me finish my response?

Q Yes. When you get your assurances, does that mean he believes it's not happening?

MR. McCLELLAN: We believe in adhering to our laws and our treaty obligations. That's the way the President has always acted. And he's made it clear to everybody throughout government that we do not torture. And that applies across the board. And as we carry out the war on terrorism, and seek to prevent attacks from happening, we must adhere to those laws, and we must adhere to those treaty obligations and we must adhere to -- we must adhere to our values.

Now, these are -- some of these issues you bring up are matters involving national intelligence or matters involving classified information that is related to the ongoing war on terrorism. And it's relating to known terrorists. And, obviously, I'm not going to get into discussing specific cases, for that reason. But we do take very seriously what our obligations are, and we have an obligation not to render people to countries if we believe they're going to be tortured.

Q One on this, one on another subject. Would you acknowledge then, as David just pointed out, there are people who have been in U.S. custody, who were transferred to other countries, who have now come out and said, I was tortured. Did that happen?

MR. McCLELLAN: Director Goss was testifying earlier today; he addressed some of these issues. The Attorney General, Judge Gonzales, has addressed some of these issues. I would leave it exactly where they left it, Terry.

Q But does the White House admit or deny the allegations of these people who were in U.S. custody --

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, Terry, that matter -- those questions have been directed to Director Goss, they've been directed to Attorney General Gonzales during his testimony, and they've responded to it, and they've addressed it. And I will leave it where they left it.

[tater_salad]

27. David Gregory has been one to press McClellan (not physically) more than

most reporters. Hope he gives him the full press soon.

[MADem]

66. Oh, but David speaks FRENCH

That automatically qualifies him as a card carrying Enemy of the State!

Remember when he questioned Chirac in flawless French at the presser with the chimp some time back? The chimp went NUTS on him, started whining--I believe the quote was "The guy memorizes four words, and he plays like he's intercontinental!"--and then chimpy tossed out a couple of 'drunk in the bar' Spanish language expressions...a real "intercontinental" that chimp!

It was NOT America's finest hour, but I thought DG acquitted himself admirably in that exchange!

[TankLV]

82. "Render"? "Rendition"? What the fuck is it with all these euphemisims?

I can render onions.

I can render a pretty good version of "Old Man River".

What the fuck is wrong with this picture?

HELLO?!?!?!

ANYBODY OUT THERE?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!

[NVMojo]

24. glad to see there are some journalists left who know what their job is ...

[SpiralHawk]

25. An astrological pattern: US will see more press revolt

If you can entertain the possibility of astrology, you may wish to visit the DU discussion thread linked below to follow the unfolding scenario. It involves not only the MSM and the blogosphere, but also the unfinished "Jeff 'White House Prostitute' Gannon" story, and the nation's Intelligence and Information systems, and more.

If you are just coming over to flame the astrologers about what a bunch of hopeless turkeys we are, puh-leease spare everyone. We are well aware of most skeptical arguments, and duely respectful of them. Please respect our little byte of DU cyberspace and unRANT.

Come on in, the cosmic waves are are long and strong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x4920


-- If we do not wakefully intend,
we are subconsciously compelled --

[Spiffarino]

67. As a former adherent to astrology

...I have to admit that I just don't buy it any more.

That said, any good news is welcome news. And any discussion in compliance with DU rules is good by me. So carry on, Starwatchers! :thumbsup:

[Robeson]

29. I think the media, in general, are panicking over blogs,....

....and the internet in general. Many educated people who want to know whats really going on in our government, society, and world, have turned off MSM. They're hitting the blogs, and going to foreign news sources over the web. This also helps to explain the non-stop smarmy assaults that MSM does towards blogs. They are actually nervous that they are being marginalized in importance. Honestly, they are becoming caricatures, and not taken serious as real journalistic news sources.

With the media, its kind of like a modern day Timothy Leary philosophy, i.e. people are "tuning out" the MSM, and are "turning on" to the internet for their news. They're being by-passed.

[ClintonTyree]

32. The media HAS TO start embarrassing the White House.................

they have to start writing stories that challenge the White House's propaganda and embarrass the CRAP out of them. Needle them, call them out, call them NAMES, challenge the bastards until they HAVE to start replying lest they be made complete fools of (not hard, they do it everyday). QUESTION EVERYTHING! Wolfowitz's promotion (?), Rice's miserable failures and HER promotion, Medals of Freedom for COMPLETE FAILURES! CHRIST, it writes itself. MAKE SOME DAMN NOISE!
The freaking gelded press corpse just sits there, pushes "record", and takes a nap. WAKE UP! PISS THE WHITE HOUSE OFF! What the hell are they going to do to you, withhold information? Deny you access? LET THEM! You never get anything out of them anyway. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, A DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION TO TEAR APART?
It's time to start making some god damned NOISE! If this crap doesn't change soon it's going to be too late. I fear it already is.

[peacetalksforall]

34. I saw part of this forum and was impressed and depressed....

The naivete and defenselessness of the honchos from the big news sources depressed me. I couldn't decide if they were grieved about the state of journalism, but were helpless - or just acting grieved.

Shafer from Slate (?) impressed me. Bill Nelson, an old timer who sounded, at times, as though he was a DUer. Also - the former Washington journalist, now with the U of Minn.

This was a worthwhile event.

[Harlequin]

36. I cant imagine that meeting as being anything other than a buncha phonies.

Plus their stinkin' lies.

[napi21]

40. Well at least they are admiting there's a problem with this WH!

I still don't understand why they ever let them get away with all that secrecy shit, but that's in the past. Sincer Shrub is a lame duck now, just maybe they'll get some more backbone and hammer them with some real questions!

[loudsue]

41. But are we hearing about this forum on the teevee?? 24/7??? Nope!

This "news" is for the benefit of the bloggers, and those who are naive enough to be optimistic.

When 6 major corporations own 90% of the media in this country, and the heads of those corporations BENEFIT from the crooks they put in power, does anyone really think they're going to allow journalists to tell the TRUTH to the American people??

Not no, but HELL no.

It's probably some sleepy CIA suit's idea of how to throw this dog a bone. Problem is, THIS DOG HUNTS!! This blogger dog doesn't need some "bone" the plastic press wants to throw.

The press is going to have to do some SERIOUS journalism for a very long time before I'll buy into this "we're fed up and we're not gonna take it anymore" crap. Yeah, right. Who? You and the other talking heads in the unemployment line? Their owners, editors and corporate advertisers aren't going to play with the truth coming out for long. In fact, I doubt we'll see much of it at all.

:kick:

[paineinthearse]

42. in this era of spin and misinformation, it's time to head to the ramparts

I'm holding my breath.

[LynnTheDem]

43. Ain't it interesting how the rest of the world's media has had no problems

reporting the facts & reality of bush's bullshit...yet US State Media "can't".

[Rex]

44. Wow they all talked about how to handle being kicked in the ass

by Bush and his lies. Ho Hum. :eyes:

[gtar100]

45. You all kick ass here!!!

Better than the story on the media by the media, you all dissected it and gave me a lot to think about. Now I have both hope and skepticism but my eyes are wide open watching. Thank you...I might have swallowed the story.

Media - MSM - wake the fuck up!!!

[Gin]

47. There are no Reporters anymore....Just...Repeaters.

g

[realFedUp]

59. I like that phrase....

think I'll use it another time. Thanks!

[Catchawave]

52. Hi gtar !

Welcome to DU :hi:

I've also noticed the MSM is rolling out their "internet mental health experts" to paint the bloggers as no-life dweebs who can't function in the real world (I honestly heard that from one!). So that convinces me they are really worried about us...lol.

I think it was Joe Trippi who said "they can't ignore the beating drums".

[bobthedrummer]

48. The BFEE uses the WH press corps as part of their "perception

management" agenda.

Bush"s Perception Management Plan
by Robert Parry
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/111804.html

[ClintonTyree]

49. The Press Corps is revolting?

You can say that again! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk! Sorry, I couldn't resist. The Three Stooges (bush, cheney, rumsfeld) are still at it.

[90-percent]

55. press corps

If they grow testicles and do their job they'll get fired and replaced by other carrier pigeons. (suscinct term. good invention there. Hope you get credit when it migrates to mainstream terminology, or blogstream terminology?)

MSM is in the same position Colin was during the product unveiling of Gulf War II. Better to be a liar with a job than have integrity and unemployment.

I don't see any changes forthcoming. Those in MSM with courage and principles will be fired and replaced by toadies.

-85%

NITRO OVER NASCAR!

[athenap]

56. "Surrender your independence"

"The main argument from other journalists was that they would surrender their independence if they took part in such group actions," he said.

Sorry Mr. Kovach, they've already surrendered their independence when they started shilling for the Administration.

"Leonard Downie Jr., an outspoken advocate of newsroom independence, who said, "We just don't believe in unified action. . . . We can't participate in the kind of discussion you are proposing." "

Mr. Downie, didn't you forget to add..."because our choke-chain is already held too tightly by Karl Rove and Scott McClellan."

Sorry guys, I'll believe it when I see it. This is a bunch of mental masturbation. "We should revolute," "Yeah, whatever." "Right after I finish typing up this talking point for the front page."

[Enraged_Ape]

57. When monkeys fly out of my ass...

will the press corps actually "revolt". They lavishly fellate this fraudulent administration on a daily basis, sometimes LITERALLY.

Every one of us on DU, if somehow magically transported to the White House press room, could quickly think up at least 10 rapid-fire questions for these crooks that have never been, and never will be, asked or answered by this cabal of whores and crooks. They act like it's so damned hard to ask a straight, honest question, and it's just absolutely ridiculous.

[glitch]

60. Watch the CIA move into the blogsphere

and I bet the corporate media "discovers" some "new" bloggers witn something to say. Oh wait, aren't they already doing that?

Sorry bloggers, if you are wanting fame and fortune on the teevee it just might be the kiss of death to your credibility.

So they'll figure out another way to promote their propagandists.
Seeding the more popular forums would be the cheapest and easiest way to accomplish this. Unfortunately for them that board members have mighty powerful bullshit detectors. Still, the swarms are annoying and do wear you down so I imagine the end result will be board death.

This is why it's important to stay aware and not participate in obvious swarms and never ever feed trolls. If only for the sake of your fellow weary travellers.

Their ultimate goal is to poison all the common meeting grounds, so that no one rational wants to go there and democracy is ground to a halt.
Just like back in the USSR.
They've done it to the political sphere, the media sphere and they'll do it to the blogosphere.

But I digress.

The only way the corporate media can redeem themselves is to do the investigations and print the truth. They will not do that.
So, no redemmption.

[DirtyDawg]

64. So, we're supposed...

to be impressed when the 'press' grows a fraction of a testicle? If this bunch, collectively, had one tenth the moxie of Helen Thomas, they'd have taken over the WH Briefing Room years ago and beaten the ever-lovin' shit out of Scottie, or Ari, or whoever they traipsed out there to blow smoke.

[msanthrope]

65. It begins--look at this snippet on a report about Schiavo

"ABC News obtained talking points circulated among Senate Republicans explaining why they should vote to intervene in the Schiavo case. Among them, that it is an important moral issue and the "pro-life base will be excited," and that it is a "great political issue — this is a tough issue Democrats."


When asked about these talking points on "Good Morning America," DeLay said, "I don't know where those talking points come from, and I think they're disgusting."


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Schiavo/story?id=595905&page=2

[deadparrot]

68. Is anyone else disturbed by the idea of a MSM revolt?

Given the number of times they've "ignored" stories and let people off the hook, why should we put a lot of stock in this?

[MsMagnificent]

70. We shouldn't :(

If, WHEN, the truth ever comes out the media will be just as culpable by their negligence to report it as those who spread the lies.

It's highly unlikely, IMO

[Oeditpus Rex]

76. Almost none of you

have any idea what the fuck you're talking about. Enraged_Ape, you think those 10 questions would, gosh, magically result in answers that reveal the truth behind all the lies? Please. :eyes:

Most of you seem to forget that the Beltway is populated with professional liars and spin artists, and those who work for the Wregime are the best in history at what they do. You want the truth out of these asshats? You might as well try sucking plutonium out of a golf ball.

Add to this all the publishers and high-level editors who'd panic at the thought of running a real story because it might piss off subscribers and, especially, advertisers, and you've got a press corps that has any number of road blocks standing between it and the truth.

Instead of shooting the message and the messenger, you might set your sights on those whose raison d'etre is to make sure the message doesn't get out.

[grasswire]

80. and a public welcome to DU, oedit

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

79. Like this is going anywhere? NO!

The corporate heads won't allow this to happen. Got to keep the status quo going.

:eyes:

[leanin_green]

83. The only kind of revolt that will work is. . .

honest, truth-evoking and hard hitting journalism. Do you really think that this administration would care if there was a unified walk out? That would be a dream come true! It would all be the media's fault.

No, if they really want to do something about the secrecy, start by reporting the news. Start digging for the stories that matter and quit being the hand puppets of this disturbing use of controlled spin and canned news propaganda.

[Nothing Without Hope]

84. The key: that enough of the press act together with integrity rather than

with selfishness:

...."And maybe if we're lucky we can find that cooperation and collaboration are not threats to our independence but are the key to strengthen the value and the appeal of a journalism of verification to the American people."

Tom Curley, president and chief executive of the Associated Press, agreed: "We have to be able to walk out of the room when somebody goes off the record."

The White House knows all about selfishness and division, and they have only contempt for integrity. They obviously don't believe that even the most humiliating and corrupt behavior will fail to spur enough of the journalists to revolt to make a significant impact. Indeed, it might be helpful in clearing out the minority of high-profile journalists that still HAVE integrity.

I hope the White House is wrong, but I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

I think we need to apply the pressure of censure to the journalists that have allowed the White House to suppress the truth in this country and, in doing so, have enabled such violence and criminality. I have suggested something that may seem silly, but could help - a reframing campaign in which we name names and point out the corrupt compliance of the shills: they're the Poodle Press. Let's put THEM in the spotlight and see how they defend what they have done.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1668099

[The Kicker]

85. Never give up.Never give in.

To those reporters who still have integrity(and even those who don't).The truth will set you free.Ain't no amount of money or "prestige" that'll satisfy like standing for truth.You would be amazed at the support out here just waiting to stand with you.What kind of world will you leave your children?It's in your hands now.Stand and deliver and help give the people the power to stand with you.Time is short now.You can change the world for the better.Courage.:thumbsup: