White Students Walk Out At Local Catholic School

[Postmanx]

NBC

HADDON TOWNSHIP, N.J. -- Some white students at a South Jersey Catholic school walked out of classes Tuesday in protest over a speech by the New Jersey Secretary of State Regina Thomas.

Tensions have been building up at Paul VI High School since Thomas' speech on racial justice last week.

Many students and faculty members walked out of the speech offended. They said that she lambasted one student for not knowing his black history and that she insinuated that the students were racist.

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. What an irony.

I remember my sister-in-law, a teacher at a private Catholic school, complained because the black students didn't know anything about black history.

[ananda]

2. and stuff

So, those white kids aren't racist and stuff? Hmm...

Sue

[Rann]

3. Private school hmmm

Wonder how this will play out?

[libnnc]

4. "Indignant rich, white kids insulted by NJ Sec of State's inference...

that they are NOT the victims of social injustice...Film at Eleven" :eyes:

[MountainLaurel]

20. Snort!

:evilgrin:

Oh, the beleagured rich white kid. Sigh.

[pelagius]

70. Don't know how rich these kids are...

...demographic info on the Web states that Haddon Township has a median income lower than the average for New Jersey. Attendance at a Catholic private school isn't ipso facto evidence of affluence. Catholic schools generally have rather low tuition and liberal scholarship programs.

[TankLV]

75. Not the Catholic Schools in Kenmore, NY suburb of Buffalo.

They were prohibitively expensive and minimal scholarships.

Glad I went to public schools.

[bklyncowgirl]

119. Depends on the school

There's a local catholic school in a town near me that will remain nameless which draws from two groups.

1. White parents of all denominations, living in this town who send their kids to this school to avoid the majority black and hispanic public school (to give people the benefit of a doubt this is a low-performing school--largly due to the fact that upper middle class families have abandoned it) and the racially mixed charter school. Taxes are high in our area and with a few exceptions, anyone who's paying the rather high tuition has to have considerable disposable income.

2. Affluent Catholics from the surrounding areas who sent their kids to the school for religious reasons.

The situation is different, of course in the inner cities where there are generous scholarship programs but in suburban areas it's much more of a white flight thing.

I could see the same thing happen in this school if someone dared to tell the students that they need to examine their attitudes toward race and social justice.

[paineinthearse]

5. I'd like to read a transcript

Story is very short, in length and substance.

[comsymp]

13. What!?! You don't think that there were enough details

to roundly condemn the students???

Sheesh ~ betcha you're one of those "innocent 'til proven guilty" pinkos, aren't ya?

[tsuki]

63. Did she miss a chance to educate them?

[tx_dem41]

64. How can anyone make any judgement when there is no direct...

quote of anything the speaker said? That speech is the key item of the whole story and it never makes an appearance in the article.

Bad journalism, IMO.

[othermeans]

117. She spoke extemporaneously so no transcript but........

ask a single question-Why was she at a private school? Now begin to piece it together. She had to be invited. She was there to give a 3-V award given by the Martin Luther King Foundation. She stopped short of apologizing but said she was sorry that her remarks were taken the wrong way.

"It was never meant to be personal or critical of the students or school," she said. "Like you, I am disheartened by the way things turned out. I have prayed for resolution and understanding for all involved in this situation. . . . It saddens me that I could not reach (the students)."

Rodney Parish, a black freshman from Sicklerville, said the problem with the speech was "the way she phrased it all and put it together."

"She was just going back into the past," he said. "I've never had a race problem (at school). Everything is still cool. Everybody is still family."


People here make me laugh. Blanket condemnations, characterizations of kids in a parochial school as spoiled rich kids and the usual black-good and white bad logic. Yeah we'll take back the white house when pigs fly.

Here's a newspaper account of the events read 'em and weep:

http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/southjersey/m031605f.htm

[wickywom]

6. My fundie catholic sister in law..

thinks Christianity freed the slaves.

[mmonk]

8. what's a fundie catholic?

[wickywom]

27. Fundamentalist ..

women serve the Lord by submiting to the head of the house-- ya da ya da.

[northzax]

12. um, it pretty much did

the early abolitionists were quakers and baptists.

of course it also enslaved the slaves first off.

Luckily, not all 'christians' think the same on anything. how boring would that be?

[wickywom]

26. ummm...

Come on.. alot of factors brought about the end of slavery.
England did it first through a boycott of sugar.
I don't discount the efforts of Christians at the time.. but
she and others use it as thier mantra to end abortion as well.

[goclark]

28. Hariett Tubman and many others Freed Themselves

Stories told and yet untold bravely expressed the need for freedom.

[wickywom]

31. "Untold" pretty much sums it up..

I've become shocked at the American history that was taught to me... so many myths..
Few seem to teach honest history let alone honest black history.. so it doesn't surprise me what kids don't know these days.

[enki23]

29. if christians defended slavery, while others opposed it...

and there was no glaring discrepancy between the numbers on either side, saying "christianity freed the slaves" is completely meaningless. that's especially true in a nation where the overwhelming majority of the population identifies as "christian."

that would be like saying marriage freed the slaves. after all, the majority of people who worked to free the slaves were, in fact, married.

[patcox2]

58. By the very same analysis, nothing is the fault of christianity.

Your analysis is correct. However, it also works both ways, when people say "christianity enslaved the slaves in the first place," that is a meaningless statement as well. Likewise with the various wars blamed on religion.

[enki23]

69. that's right. nothing is the fault of "christianity"

though there are a great number of things which are in no small part due to the faults of christians. and, if christians were lopsidedly on one side or another, one might make a good argument that "christianity" tended to either lead, follow, or at least accompany whatever issue one were studying. with slavery, however, it seems "christianity" was pretty firmly, and more or less evenly, divided.

[pelagius]

71. You seem to be arguing both sides of the fence.

Which is convenient, but not intellectually honest.

[enki23]

73. not really.

technically, christianity doesn't cause things. people who call themselves christians cause things. but i'll grant that i wasn't quite right in the first post. after considering it... yes. in a sense, you could make a case that christianity in general was more or less in favor or opposed to a certain policy, so long as a reasonably large majority of christians fell on one side or the other.

but black slavery in the united states, at the time it was occurring, almost *certainly* doesn't fit even well enough to say which side "christianity" took on the issue, much less playing such a role as to say it was the single most important cause of slavery's demise.

[pelagius]

74. Thank you for reconsidering...

...and I basically agree with you.

Since it's St. Patrick's Day, here's a fun fact: Patrick is one of the first Western writers we know of to condemn slavery!

[wickywom]

97. besides... the Quakers

who from my understanding were the most vocal of the whites, were basically rejected as " true Christians" at the time.

[JohnLocke]

19. It did (nt).

[enki23]

30. bullshit (nt)

.

[megatherium]

39. The holy scriptures were cited by both sides in the

slavery debate. But the abolitionists could credibly argue that all humans were equal before God (all humans must stand before God in the day of judgement), and that given the equal worth of humans before God, no one should have the right to own another person. This argument would have been unintelligible to people in ancient (pre-Christian) times, or in many other cultures, which lacked this belief that all humans are equal in some moral or spiritual sense. Thus it can be reasonably argued that the abolitionist movement was a genuine expression of the Christian faith.

[gratuitous]

7. Beats going to class

Looks like my standard rejoinder to any student walkout works again.

[msongs]

9. catholic church aided and abetted the african slave trade so

since the church and its various underlings like kings and businessmen helped run and profited from the africa-america slave trade, they have little morality to complain about race.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[8misyears]

21. Actually...

if it wasn't for the Catholic Church in Quebec buying my forefather's freedom, he would have died a slave. France, Britian, the colonists...all were involved in slavery in North America...and don't forget the thousands of white slaves that helped build this country, while being treated poorly by the black slaves because they were looked at as being physically inferior(and cheaper).

[StuckinKS]

33. Thousands of white slaves? Whatever.

It's just like the argument that many non-Jews died in the Holocaust. Of course both happened and shouldn't be ignored but blacks suffered most from slavery and Jews from the Holocaust. Period.

Even if there were that many white slaves, all you are doing is using that fact as an unimportant adjunct to this argument. Which is whether organized religion played a major part in freeing the (black) slaves.

Undoubtedly, many people of different faiths were involved in the abolitionist movement and subsequent efforts to free the slaves. But just as many people of faith used that faith to argue FOR slavery. Some denominations even divided North and South over the issue. And I'm pretty sure there were no pronouncements from the Pope or any other major religious leader in the 1850s and 1860s decrying slavery and urging their followers to fight against it.

So, "Christianity" was no more responsible for freeing the slaves than they are for securing gay rights today. There are merely some Christians working on either side.

[8misyears]

42. Well...

...it's actually hundreds of thousands of white slaves. The success of white slave labor paved the way to bring in African slaves. The African slaves were seen to be much more valuable to slave owners, which after time, stopped most of the white slave trade...they weren't worth anything. These poor whites were contracted for the most dangerous jobs, because if they died or got injured from the job, it wouldn't matter to the slave owners.

Though the Catholic Church is guilty(with basically everybody else being guilty at the same time), they still did some good...the buying of my forefather's freedom, among many others, being fine examples.

[SemperEadem]

54. you're talking about indentured servitude, which is different from slavery

if an indentured serf managed to free himself and escape to another town where he/she was unknown, no one would automatically label him/her a slave due to the color of his/her skin--even on a bad day, they could assimilate far easier into the populace than an african slave could on a good day.

The very thing that drove most Europeans to American are the very things they embraced to oppress and subjugate peoples of color once they got here.

[kwassa]

107. Hundreds of thousands of white slaves? What nonsense !!

Find any reputable source, and I mean reputable.

[TankLV]

77. Umm - actually the numer of non-Jewish victums outnumbered the Jewish

victums.

Gays, Catholics, Slavs, Gypsies, Communists, Unionists.

Look it up.

And while I can't ever equate indentured servants with black slavery, these mainly white indentured servants were of significant numbers in the earliest part of our history - 1600's onward - to have been a significant factor. Not nearly the numbers of black slaves, nor nearly the cruelty and suffering that the black slaves suffered, but still a significant fact.

See posts 54 above & 34 below.

[StuckinKS]

81. Ummmm

Yes there were more...if you add them all together, maybe. But no other group alone came close.

I don't mean to be pissy and I don't wish to diminish any one group's suffering. I've heard it said that, "if you have a handful of shit or a mouthful of shit, it's still shit."

But, this whole adjunct argument seems to have started taking off because of someone mentioning that a Catholic saved their ancestor, oh, and by the way, what about those white slaves treated badly by the blacks.

In a discussion about an outraged reaction from whites when chided by a black person, this comment comes off as insensitive, at the least.

[TankLV]

115. Only if YOU choose to take it this way. I was merely pointing out facts.

Which you have corroborated.

I read somewhere recently the total number of slavs or russians equaled the number of Jews - they listed all the groups - but as you have said, that is not the point, and I certainly didn't intend to diminsh the heinuousness (sp?) of the fact that many suffered and the Jews were the main intended target and suffered disproportionately.

BTW, I totally support the speaker in all of this. These white privileged students seem to have a very thin skin, so to speak.

[blanca52]

102. Antebellum white slaves

Antebellum white slavery was a reality. Read The Forgotten Cause of the Civil War: A New Look at the Slavery Issue by Lawrence R. Tenzer:


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962834807/qid=1111164859/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-0556765-5488819


http://www.scholarspublishing.com/

[kwassa]

108. These "whites" are descendents of blacks and whites

and you have to define your terms. Just because a person of African descent and white descent may have very light skin and eyes will never make that person a white person in the antebellum south or anyplace else.

[kwassa]

34. Where is there any history of white slavery in the US?????????

There were white indentured servants, but no white slaves that I've heard of.

It was a whole lot better to be an indentured servant than a slave.

[carolinayellowdog]

35. New book: The Lost German Slave Girl

It got good reviews but I haven't read it; can only assume that it includes discussion of the prevalence of the practice. Thousands is not many compared to tens of millions black slaves, but it did happen:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=JV1i5GxANJ&isbn=0871139219&itm=1

[carolinayellowdog]

37. Here's a better source: Talty in Salon.com

http://dir.salon.com/books/it/2000/06/15/white_slaves/index.html

It turns out that the book I cited concludes that the case was a fraud and the girl was not in fact white.

[blanca52]

103. The German Slave

The WOMAN was white. Whites are not "pure." She was, however, legally enslaved and was able to claim the identity of a person who was not legally enslaved.

[PhuLoi]

36. Information regarding white slaves in the Americas can be

obtained in the book "To Hell or Barbados." 17th century documentation and first person transcriptions.

[8misyears]

43. Yes, there were...

white indentured servants, but I specifically said "slaves" and that is exactly what I meant. Read some books.

[kwassa]

106. You should post your sources, if you have them

You made an assertion about hundreds of thousands of white slaves, which is .... completely unsubstantiated.

[happyslug]

44. They were some white slaves

Most of the Colonies abolished white slavery while before the Revolution. Thus by the time of the Revolution you had no white slaves but prior to that you did. Most of these where either Catholic Irish shipped to America or the West Indies under Oliver Cromwell or Criminals who were shipped to America.

It was harder to keep whites as Slaves than Black for the law assumed every Black was a Slave, but every white was NOT, thus if a black was walking on the street he could be picked up by the local Sheriff and held as an escaped slave unless he could prove he was not, while the Sheriff to hold a white must first prove the White-man was a slave (Furthermore if no one claimed the black the Sheriff could sell him to pay the cost of keeping him in his jail, thus a lot of Free Blacks ended up sold by their Sheriffs throughout the South both in the Colonial period and the Ante Bellum Period).

Given the above problem (and the additional problem was most of these White-Slaves were some of the worse convicts in England) most Colonies forbade them being imported after about 1700, thus when white slavery was abolished about 1750 there were very few white slaves.

[Xithras]

51. Yep, it was very easy for a white slave to escape.

If they stole a decent set of clothes from a neighbor and took a bath, nobody could tell a slave from a settler. That's why white slavery died out about the time that the colonies were being settled (it had existed in Europe since the dawn of history).

[blanca52]

104. More information on white slaves

http://www.interracialvoice.com/powell9.html

[NorthernSpy]

105. per the 'one-drop rule', these "white slaves" were *black*...

The real irony is that the very same neo-nazi types who love to dwell upon the plight of the much-fabled "white slave" are themselves the first to reject any attempt by a person of partly African ancestry to call him or herself "white". Judged according to white supremacist ideology, the vast majority of these white slaves were genealogically "impure", and therefore NOT white -- by definition.

Clearly, the one-drop rule (A.D. Powell, whose article you cited, calls it "hypodescent") is stupid. But it's no stupider than anything else that racists do -- including making an arbitrary attempt to recategorize some long-dead slaves in hopes of convincing the gullible that whites were the "real victims" of American slavery.

:eyes:

[blanca52]

109. Antebellum white slavery

White slavery was a reality. Do some reading. Many of you seem to feel that the reality of white slavery deprives blacks of something. In reality, it shows that slavery was a threat to whites and the republic in general. I especially recommend:

The Forgotten Cause of the Civil War: A New Look at the Slavery Issue
by Lawrence R. Tenzer

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0962834807/qid=1111189188/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-0556765-5488819?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


There is no difference between a "pure" white and an "impure" one. Indeed, there is no white racial purity at all, so why defend it.

Also, contrary to the myth of "one drop," black blood was legally permitted in whites throughout the antebellum Southern states. It was not until the 20th century and the rise of the Eugenics movement that some states (motivated by a small band of activists such as Walter Plecker of Virginia) tried to define whites as "pure." But, it was not only "black blood" that was banned. However, no one seems to remember that because modern black Americans (at least the intelligentsia) tend to support the "one drop" myth. This was proved by the NAACP's opposition to the Multiracial Movement's call for a "multiracial" census category not to mention the hysterical denunciation of Anatole Broyard and other mixed whites for "passing." Why Hispanics and Arab-Americans, who have plenty of black ancestry, are exempt from this demand to be forcibly assimilated into an "African American" category is not answered.


http://www.interracialvoice.com/powell12.html

"White Slavery: An American Paradox" by Carol Wilson and Calvin D Wilson in Slavery and Abolition, 19:1.

"The Slave Trader, the White Slave, and the Politics of Racial Determination in the 1850s" by Walter Johnson in Journal of American History, (June 2000)

http://www.scholarspublishing.com/

http://www.scholarspublishing.com/plate.htm

[NorthernSpy]

112. gens de couleur libres

There is no difference between a "pure" white and an "impure" one. Indeed, there is no white racial purity at all, so why defend it.

Like I said, recategorizing a bunch of long-dead slaves because doing so might make for useful anti-black propaganda is stupid.

Do you honestly think that these "white slaves" were actually viewed as white back then in the South?

Occasionally, in some places, a slave or the child of a slave could be freed. This happened in Louisiana. The result for ostensibly white former slaves was not a newfound freedom to marry and meld into white society. The result was a retooled caste system that included a stratum of non-slave, white-looking blacks.

...modern black Americans (at least the intelligentsia) tend to support the "one drop" myth. This was proved by the NAACP's opposition to the Multiracial Movement's call for a "multiracial" census category not to mention the hysterical denunciation of Anatole Broyard and other mixed whites for "passing."

Heehee! Yeah: they're not hopelessly stupid. The one-drop rule has created an all-inclusive "Black" race that can only increase, no matter how much out-marriage occurs -- unlike all those Indian nations which are pretty much doomed to dwindling numbers because the recognition and tribal membership criteria that are forced on them (by the gummint!) are so strict.

"Mixed white", in the sense of "white, but with a little black" isn't a category that exists in most of American society. Only in New England have I ever met whites who claim a black ancestor and nevertheless succeed in remaining socially white. Unlike a claim of European heritage, a claim of whiteness in the American context is always a negative claim: it means nothing-but-European, or perhaps European, plus a dubious claim of a wee drop of Indigenous blood (just enough to give the claimant a sort of "birthright" to the North American continent -- but not enough to land him on the Rez, heaven forbid!).

"White" is a category within the American caste system. It isn't a synonym for "English", or "European", or even "caucasoid". As a political term, it was invented in large part to keep your "mixed whites" out -- permanently out. Trying to lay the responsibility for that at the feet of the NAACP is dishonest, ignorant, grossly unfair, and even kind of tacky.

[blanca52]

122. Whites with "black blood" are still white

Sorry to disappoint "Northernspy," but a little black blood does not ruin a white person's life. How do you explain the fact that the descendants of Eston Hemings Jefferson (son of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings) are all white? Indeed, Eston
was legally white himself after he was emancipated. Ever heard of the Melungeons or the Redbones? These are Southern whites descended from people classified as "free colored" who are proudly reclaiming their mixed-race roots. However, they are still white!

I think I can speak for my fellow whites by stating that the vast majority of us do not spend our time worrying whether other whites have small amounts of "black blood" or not.

Furthermore, can NorthernSpy explain why Hispanics and Arab-Americans (who are nearly all of partial black ancestry, at least) are allowed to reject being forced into the "black race" and have usually been classified as white (which is what they prefer to be) regardless of ancestry or phenotype? When they intermarry with European Americans, they spread their "black blood" throughout the white race, but only a few Matthew Hale types seem to care. (The white supremacists think Jews are not white, so mainstream whites don't give a damn what they think).

The determination to commit "ethnic rape" by trying to force mixed whites or even mulattoes into the "black race" does not serve blacks well. It only implies that something is wrong with their genes. American Indians, by contrast, are never denounced as biologically "inferior" by any "Bell Curve" opportunists, despite their dismal academic achievement. Could it be because American Indian ancestry is so freely acknowledged in the "white race" that there is no political profit in doing so? Blacks would be wise to stop trying to "kidnap" people for their "race," stop denouncing people for "passing for white (which is what they really are, anyway) " and support an end to hypodescent and the "black blood" stigma. Foolishly, too many of them support "one drop" and thus their own degradation.

[blanca52]

110. The definition of "white"

The 20th century saw many families redefined from "white" to "Negro" when they had been LEGALLY WHITE in the antebellum period. Historian Frank W. Sweet has done a great deal of research on this topic.

http://www.backintyme.com/website/books2.htm

These people deserve our sympathy just as much as the German Jews who found themselves redefined as a separate and inferior "race" during the Third Reich. People have a right to be who they are, even if it's white.


--------------------
The Great 'White' Influx
--------------------


Regardless of color, two-thirds of immigrants choose that designation on census replies. For some, it's synonymous with America.


By SOLOMON MOORE and ROBIN FIELDS
Los Angeles Times Staff Writers


July 31, 2002


Zarmina Khalili says she never considered herself white until she moved to the United States 15 years ago.


Race was a nonissue in her native Afghanistan, she said. There, the basic distinctions were tribal, between Tajiks and Pashtuns. Khalili knew where she stood: She was a Tajik.


In America, it wasn't so clear. The census forms that came in the mail asked Khalili, 42, a Canoga Park homemaker, to place herself in one of six racial categories. She picked "white." Though she is fair-skinned, it wasn't entirely a matter of color, she said.


She regarded white as synonymous with American, with belonging, with fitting in.

In identifying herself that way, Khalili joined a growing number of newcomers who are stretching traditional U.S. racial definitions and -counterintuitive as it might seem - making white among the most diverse of demographic categories.

The 2000 Census counted 28 million foreign-born residents. Two-thirds identified themselves as white. In 1990, half of the foreign-born population checked "white."


Another sign of change: In 1990, immigrants made up 5% of all white Americans. By 2000, the foreign-born accounted for 9% of the white population.


Latinos, the nation's largest immigrant group, are driving those numbers. Almost half checked the "white" box in Census 2000.


"What white traditionally meant - the WASP, the blond hair, the California drawl, the Hells Angels motorcycle riders - is being overlaid with new images of white Russians and Armenians ... Iranians, North Africans and Latinos," said USC demographer Dowell Myers. "White is the most polyglot category, and it's morphing."

Recent newcomers are expanding the meaning of "white" much as Southern and Eastern European immigrants did a century ago, when many Americans still viewed the word as signifying Anglo-Saxon heritage.

The latest arrivals are also upsetting conventional wisdom, which held that the percentage of white Americans would inevitably dwindle over time. About 75% of the U.S. populace defines itself today as wholly or partly white. Many demographers expect the same will be true in 50 years, despite continued immigration from Latin America, Asia and elsewhere.


"There's been this idea that demography is destiny and that America is going to be a nonwhite nation," said Peter Skerry, author of "Mexican Americans: The Ambivalent Minority" and a fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington. "It ain't necessarily so."


Why do so many recent immigrants choose a white identity?


White Means Inclusion


For earlier generations, the value of doing so was clear. They were coming to a place where nonwhites suffered systematic discrimination. Even today, many immigrants say they equate whiteness with opportunity and inclusion.


But a growing number, influenced heavily by Latino culture, say they see race as fluid and whiteness as an unbounded territory they can enter and exit at will.

Yareli Arizmendi, a Mexican American actress, said she used to be typecast as "the gangbanger's mother" or "the excitable Cuban woman." So she stopped specifying her ethnicity at auditions. Recently, she landed the part of a Jewish lawyer on an episode of the television series "NYPD Blue." No one guessed her roots until she mentioned them to a hairstylist on the set.


"I am a Latino," said the actress, who lives in Hollywood. "But I am white too, and I don't want to be pegged as 'the other.' "

In Mexico, where Arizmendi was born and raised, "we never asked: 'What are you? What percentage Negroid? What percentage mongoloid? Are you Latin American or Mayan or Aztec or European or Moorish?' " she recalled. "Because a lot of us are all of these things."


Other mixed-race people are embracing a similar sort of racial flexibility, choosing white as their primary race. A 1995 federal schools survey found that 17% of the children with an African American parent and a white parent chose white as their primary ethnicity. Among children with one Asian American parent and one white parent, half considered white their primary race.

In the past, people of mixed race were almost uniformly counted as minorities, not as whites.


Even siblings with identical racial backgrounds sometimes make different choices based on personal experience. David Chau, 22, a student at the Rhode Island School of Design in Providence, has a Jewish mother and a Chinese American father. He considers himself white. "White fits me best, I guess," he said.


His older sister, Jen, sees herself as a minority: Jewish and Asian. "I honestly don't know what white means," she said. "I don't know what a white experience is."


Debate about racial categories and their meaning revives each decade when the U.S. Census Bureau asks American households about themselves.


Changing Categories


In the first national headcount, in 1790, government enumerators placed people in four slots: free white males, free white females, slaves, and "others," a category that included free Native Americans.


Today, people fill out the survey themselves, choosing from six options for race: white; black or African American; American Indian or Native Alaskan; Asian; Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander; and "other." In 2000, for the first time, respondents could check more than one category.


The census allows Latinos the most room for layered self-definition. Since 1980, the survey has treated Hispanic ethnicity apart from race, asking about it in a separate question and indicating that Latinos can be of any race. The Hispanic category is meant for people who trace their origins to a Spanish-speaking nation.


The choices Americans make about their racial identities have far-reaching consequences. More than 60 federal agencies use census data to distribute government funds. State legislatures use the numbers in redrawing congressional districts. The Justice Department consults the census in looking for patterns of racial discrimination. Businesses base crucial decisions on the data, ranging from where to open stores to how to market soft drinks.


In doing so, they give bedrock permanence to racial identities that may be ephemeral or subjective


People who pick Hispanic as their ethnicity and white as their race often are communicating that they feel "functionally white," said Ian Haney Lopez, a UC Berkeley law professor.

For example, Latinos living in affluent, suburban parts of the Los Angeles area tended to call themselves white in Census 2000. By contrast, 50% or more of Latinos living in several of the region's urban barrios picked "other" as their race.


The sensation of being white waxes and wanes, and not just for Latinos. Shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, FBI agents came to the home of Khalili, the Afghan immigrant, to ask questions. Her 15-year-old daughter was harassed at school.


"Until Sept. 11, I just felt like this was my own country," Khalili said. "Now it's different. I feel like a minority."


That same uneasy feeling might have shivered through an Irishman in the 1850s or a Slav passing through Ellis Island in the 1920s.


Go back far enough in U.S. history and many Americans who see themselves as white could have been considered minorities at one time. To Benjamin Franklin, for example, "white" referred only to those of Anglo-Saxon descent.


"Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes are generally of what we call a swarthy complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal body of white people on the face of the Earth," Franklin wrote in a 1751 essay, "Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind and the Peopling of Countries, Etc."


Like Franklin, early U.S. laws regulating marriage, property rights, citizenship, voting and other facets of life viewed whiteness as a hereditary attribute. But the laws employed varying, often conflicting, standards for determining who had it. Someone could be deemed white for purposes of citizenship, but nonwhite under marriage laws - and thus barred from marrying a white.


Between the Civil War and World War II, Japanese, Arab, Afghan, Armenian, Indian and other immigrants sued in U.S. courts, trying to prove themselves white and therefore eligible to enter the country, hold jobs or become citizens.


National Identity


Courts gave contradictory rulings. In 1910, an immigrant from India named Dolla was pale enough to convince one court that he was white. Ten years later, the Supreme Court ruled that another Indian immigrant was not.


The unprecedented wave of immigration at the turn of the 20th century made the racial identity of newcomers a more contentious issue than ever, as traditionalists declared the national identity under siege.


A 1911 congressional commission sought to quiet the controversy by cataloging the identities of the immigrant flood. It issued a "Dictionary of Races or People" that put Slavs, Poles, Italians, Russians and others in 45 nonwhite racial subgroups. This prompted intense opposition from immigrants, especially Jews, who were placed in a "Hebrew" category.


Many immigrants feared ostracism if the dictionary's distinctions became policy or law. Ultimately, the government discarded the categories. People with diverse origins came to be seen, and to see themselves, as white.


Mexican Americans became part of a similar debate as the United States expanded west in the 19th century, absorbing sizable Latino populations. After the end of the Mexican-American War in 1848, census enumerators counted people with Spanish surnames as white. That practice continued until 1930, when a separate "Mexican" racial category was created. Mexican Americans successfully lobbied to have the designation dropped in 1940. Once again, enumerators classified virtually everyone with Spanish surnames as white.

The discrimination visited on African Americans gave immigrants a powerful incentive to be identified as whites.


"They were coming into a society where slavery was synonymous with skin pigmentation," said Joel Perlmann, a senior scholar at the Jerome Levy Economics Institute at Bard College in New York. "It had nothing to do with preserving their own culture."


In the expansion of whiteness, African Americans have remained conspicuously apart. They are the group least likely to intermarry with other races and most likely to live in segregated communities and attend segregated schools, according to census and other research data.


"Everyone else has taken their positions in relation to that duality," said Noel Ignatiev, a history instructor at the Massachusetts College of Art and author of "How the Irish Became White." "Everyone can assimilate into white America, except 'homie.' "


But some scholars say African Americans' historical exclusion spurred them to a powerful political and cultural unity. The solidarity they achieved during the civil rights movement of the 1960s is being emulated today by Latinos, said Todd Boyd, a USC pop culture professor and the author of "Am I Black Enough For You?"


"We took those crumbs and transformed it into a distinctive culture," he said. Even African Americans who could "pass" as white because of their appearance or cultural background choose not to, Boyd said. "Now there's no reason to shy away from it - it's ours."


Latinos have adopted a similar strategy, but with a twist, said Arturo Vargas, executive director of the National Assn. of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials.


"To the extent that being white means being American, we are white," Vargas said. "But at the same time, we don't have to deny being Latino as much as before because we've had a significant civil rights movement, and politically we're still one bloc."


The question "Are you white?" puzzles many second- and third-generation Americans. Many say they simply don't think about it.


"Whites live in a society that was created for them, that caters to them, where they are the norm. They fit," said Matthew Kelley, publisher of Mavin, a multiracial affairs journal in Seattle. "So to a lot of people being white is almost indefinable. It's just this kind of comfort that you don't recognize unless it goes away. It's like describing air."


Disturbing Definition


When whites try to define whiteness, they often find the experience uncomfortable, even disturbing.


"For me, being proud that you're white is like some kind of Nazi thing," said Tom Radu, 43, a general contractor from Monrovia. Radu is of Swedish and Romanian ancestry and is married to a Mexican American woman. He describes their 19-year-old son as a "whitesican."


Jim Stewart, 49, who works with Radu, remembered an odd conservation with his father about race.


"I told him: 'You're half-white and half-Sicilian,' " recalled Stewart. "Like a half-hour later, he came up to me and said with all seriousness: 'I'm pretty sure Sicilians are considered white.' It mattered so much to him that he was thinking about it all that time."


Some whites yearn for a more distinct identity, in effect seeking to go back to a time before their families joined the mainstream.


"For many white Americans, white is not enough - there is no unifying white experience," said Diena Simmons, producer of a 23-episode PBS documentary titled "Ancestors." "They want to say they are Jewish, or Polish, or Ukrainian or something like that."


Last year, the Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation opened a Web site listing the names of 22 million immigrants who arrived in the Port of New York between 1892 and 1924. The site (http://www.ellisisland.org) logged 1 billion hits in its first month.


Bob Nafius, a San Diego computer executive, was one of the teeming masses at Ellis Island's virtual port. Within minutes, he found his Irish great-grandmother's passenger record showing that she sailed to New York from Liverpool on a ship called the Oceanic.


"Growing up in the San Fernando Valley, white meant suburban, being connected from mall to shining mall. That whole white-bread kind of thing," Nafius said. "But I always wished I could have a real ethnicity. I'm looking for a tribe to join. Don't I get a tribe?"

[unhappycamper]

55. there will be slaves after the house OKs the bankruptcy act

:-(

[SlavesandBulldozers]

80. excellent post

the Spanish crown even had a policy "against" the "slave trade" that was anything but. They would be involved in no such unCatholic principles. so they bought a big batch of slaves from the English protestants and encouraged the slaves to reproduce. It was the "purchase" of slaves that Catholics considered unchristian, but they manipulated slave culture with a stick-and-carrot kind of approach into creating a separate lesser culture.

The English and Dutch, by comparison, were the worst. I always enjoy how the Brits act like they are this enlightened culture who have resolved their past racism. Jamaica alone,during the height of the slave trade, had more slaves than all of the North American colonies or early United States.

[anitar1]

10. Wonder if her speech was filmed?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

11. Uppity Negro! How dare she!

:eyes:

The race disparities in this country are disgusting and they SHOULD make people feel uncomfortable, just like the Iraq war should make people feel uncomfortable. Things don't change when people feel comfortable with the status quo.

[xchrom]

14. white people racist?!?!

nooooo!

where will it end?!?!

that woman must a liberal.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

15. "They said that she lambasted one student for not knowing his

black history"

Well hell, did anybody bother to try to teach them?

A heck of a lot of students don't know American history, period.

[Voltaire99]

16. Little holy brownshirts--a stark failure of Catholicism

Sheltered from social reality and the consequences of their prejudices, these kids are apparently well-marinated in racism, too. Clearly their faith is of little functional use in this regard: all that praying and confessing isn't turning out decent human beings.

Here's the Rx for these brainwashees: less time railing intolerantly against the choices of women and more time practicing the good works of Dorothy Day, a Catholic who had her head screwed on right. Reading the liberation theologists would help them, too.

Meantime, staging a walk-out AGAINST social justice gives these pint-sized brownshirts good standing in the ranks of the Bush Youth.

Repent, shits!

[cap]

17. also Mother Drexel

who was sainted because of her early work in educaton for blacks after the civil war. She started one of the first black colleges.

[mark414]

25. poor kids

all they do is grow up as some of the most privileged kids in the world and now we got this uppity negro pickin on em

way to go kids! stand up for what's right! don't let yourselves be held down!

*end sarcasm*

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Blue_Tires]

41. "Once lefties like you no longer dominate our party"

who's side are you on, i wonder, with a quote like that?

[PeterJames]

45. Not The Fringe Side

The posters remarks were completely thoughtless and rude which is
typical of the far left.

According to one newspaper report this woman was yelling and screaming
at 13 and 14 year olds for what she went through growing up black.
Is it their fault? I can tell you one thing, none of them will support
a party that blames them, like this poster did. More young people are
choosing to vote Republican because of it.

If this adult woman still cannot get over the past and work to
better the future then she never will, and neither will her children
and anyone else she influences.

This poster also condemned an entire religion. He must be perfect.

I, for one, am sick of it. I want these people out of the Democratic
party. They have ruined it. They should start their own wacko party.

[ashiebr]

50. "According to one newspaper report .............."

And that was enough to set you off?

Come on. I think you were just looking for a fight. There are bigger prpblems for the Dems than lefties. Joe Lieberman, for example.

[PeterJames]

56. That Was One More Newspaper Report Than

Voltaire read before he posted his remarks.

I assume you agree with him as you have not felt it necessary
to condemn them. That is the problem with the Democratic
party today, they allow hatefull things like this to
pass without addressing it.

We have fallen out of the mainstream and have been rejected.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[PeterJames]

65. Agreed.

Maybe some common sense will begin to sink in, eventually.

[ashiebr]

84. I hope common sense prevails too..........

....which excludes selling-out to the right-wing like Smoking Joe.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

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[fudge stripe cookays]

46. I'm trying to figure out...

exactly what part of his statement was racist.

And exactly where you get off calling anyone on this board a "leftie" like the poster. You're posting here. That must make you a leftie too. If you aren't, then there's a problem and you're on the wrong board.

FSC

[PeterJames]

48. It Is A Democratic Forum

I am a Democrat, like my grandfather and my parents, and I vote
Democrat. However, I am so sick of the irrationality of many in
this party that say things like that poster.

It made no sense at all. He immediately trashed the white students,
who obviously were frightened at the yelling and degrading speaker,
without learning the facts first. Is that a mainstream Democrat ?
I would think not. Why did he call them brownshirts ? Why did he
blame Catholicism ?

The woman speaker was out of bounds - clearly.

Also, I suggest that you stop disinviting people from Democrat forums
and the party in general just because we disagree. The party doesn't
need that right now, does it?

[fudge stripe cookays]

60. It wasn't racist.

It might have been biased, and leaned toward the speaker, but it was not racist. Nor was it irrational. Blacks have historically had it much harder than Catholics. I saw where he was going with it.

I would tend to favor the speaker as well. I've been a Catholic school student. Sounds to me like this woman was doing her best to shake them out of their happy little middle class existence and have them realize what kind of crap blacks go through every day.

Oh boo hoo she hurt their feelings.

There's a difference between disagreeing and flaming people in your first few posts. May I suggest you settle in for awhile and up your post count before you go pointing fingers.

People tend to be pretty distrustful of newbies, especially when they name call like you did ("leftie" is generally considered derogatory around here, along with "pinko", "commie", and a few other choice terms the freepers use). Just a tip.

[othermeans]

116. How do you know it wasn't racist? She speaks extemporaneously

so there are no transcripts. Black good-White bad logic is dangerous and only exacerbates racial tensions. But why did she go there? Remeber this is a private school. She had to be invited. Before condemning something or someone out of hand get the facts.

Read this transcription of the events and the ensuing problems:
http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/southjersey/m031605f.htm

[Occulus]

96. Yeah, it really sucks for them to get the same treatment

their parents and grandparents happily dished out once themselves, isn't it?

"people from Democrat forums"

You left out the 'ic'. That's common in some circles.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

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[harpboy_ak]

118. How Special!!!

For every -blank- that leaves the party we will get back three
or four mainstream Democrats. Those who left the party
because it is, currently, out of touch.

uh, no. the folks who have left the party are those that are sick and tired of the centrist crap and want to vote for real democrats, not corporate DLC losers who can't attract working folks back to the party. they want to vote for candidates that don't waffle, who support ordinary folks, not corporations.

so the "blank" you are referring to is "beltway corporate shill".

and what's all this white guy BS? a dozen posts here, and you suddenly represent "white guys"? not this white guy! you're a newbie here, and calling regulars "lefties"? anybody know this freeper troll?

[stranger81]

121. Let me respond . . . .

And for every conservative that leaves the democratic party, pulled further and further to the right since 1992, there's a "leftie" waiting in the wings to reclaim the party's original mantle. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the democratic party is historically more conservative than it is now -- that's manifestly not true. Ever heard of the New Deal? Unless your grandparents were really young, if they were democrats, they voted for that.

My original point stands: the democratic party doesn't need ANY part of its membership right now attempting to drive other democrats out of the party simply because you disagree with them.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

[blanca52]

123. Democratic Forum

I have to agree with PeterJames. Too many people on the Left would rather be ideologically "pure" rather than politically successful. Denouncing innocent schoolchildren as "racist" may enhance one's ego and create the illusion of being some kind of elite, "anti-racist" white (as opposed to the supposedly racist white masses), but it doesn't accomplish anything positive.

Did you ever hear the expression about catching more flies with honey than with vinegar? The Right is more successful, in part, because they know how to flatter people and make them believe that they are acting in their self-interest (even when they're not). The Left tends to lecture people on their social sins (real and imagined). Study some basic human psychology! The Right certainly has.

[makhno]

68. What in the world ...

... do excesses of political correctness have to do with the "far left?"

Lenin, that's far left. Philistine social liberalism isn't.

[Occulus]

95. I'm gay. I get a pass when it comes to the church.

So, with that said, I think the single largest problem in this country comes from some religious people who cannot stand the fact that there are people who worship a different god- and that god is placed on a par, by law, with theirs.

It sickens them to realize that America is beginning to recognize that Xtians like them (NOT to be confused with real Christians- you know, the ones who actually walk in the footsteps of Christ, rather than using Him as a weapon) aren't really practicing their faith, but are instead using it against others. It's bad karmic juju to do that. They don't seem to believe in karma or anything of the kind, but that's all right- karma always wins, especially against those who don't believe in it.

Angry? Self-focused? When practitioners of that very same religion have made her angry, made her examine her own struggle instead of the utterly nonexistent Xtian "persecution" they wail over- you know, the persecution that doesn't take place in the US anymore?

Give me a break.

It's become painfully obvious to me over the thirty years I've been here that Xtians are where most of our problems in the US arise from. They aren't Christians, by the way.

They are, however, usurpers. Each of them. And having been truly persecuted by people exactly like this all my life, well, I'm very comfortable and unapologetic in saying that.

[Name removed]

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[sandnsea]

111. Read some other articles

That describe KKK All The Way stuffed in lockers of black kids and black kids saying they were happy with what she said, that she was speaking for them. That they weren't going to have flyers circulated around campus.

I don't know anything about New Jersey but I do know about racism and I do know whites don't want to hear about it AT ALL.

Just like you don't want to hear about it AT ALL, despite the fact that there was just an article yesterday about higher interest rates being charged to blacks by Ford Motor.

We could just sweep all our problems under the rug, racism, sexism, gun violence, pollution, poverty. But then what the hell would be the point of a Democratic Party?

[NNguyenMD]

18. I think if you ask most white students, 99.9% of them embrace the idea of

living in peace with other people of color, and are not looking to pick a fight with someone just because of their race.

[mark414]

24. wow...i would bet not

and i've lived in both predominantly white and predominantly black areas...if that were true race relations would be light years ahead of where they are now

[Blue_Tires]

22. i'd be interested in finding that speech

[Catt03]

23. Me too

I think it is a good idea to check out everything written or spoken.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[NashVegas]

32. This Is What I Remember of High School:

1-2 years of European history. 1-2 years of US history.

Zero time spent on African history except how Africa impacted US history, ie, slavery, and the northern Africa WW2 battle.

If anyone doesn't see that as an issue, ask yourself this: why do we study European history?

[Xithras]

53. The point is, she shouldn't have attacked the students for it

I agree that African Studies tend to get the short shrift if modern schools, but you fix that by taking your arguments to the school boards or administrators. Verbally attacking students for not knowing their African history is stupid and pointless.

[solinvictus]

57. Why European History?

Oh, I don't know, I suppose for classical philosophy, mathematics, architecture, logic, astronomy, politics, and other disciplines. I'm not saying Europe has or had a monopoly on any of these, but to take up the dated PC "dead white men" mantra is as counterproductive as ignoring Black history and achievements.
Let's keep this in mind: Western civilization was the first collective body to outlaw chattel slavery. Chattel slavery is still a growth industry in Moslem Africa and much of Southeast Asia.

[NashVegas]

85. My Goodness - You Miss the Point

Architecture? Egyptians were building pyramids when Europeans were living in shacks, if anything that sophisticated.

Math? Where do you think our numeric system came from - answer is *not* Rome.

Except for philosophy - as far as we know - just about everything you've listed was happening in Africa at the same time if not before it was in Europe.

I'm not saying all this to dismiss dead white guys, okay?

I'm saying it because when you teach a class of white kids European history, it reinforces our sense of *our* history; it's where we came from.

So what about the 5-15% of the kids in that class who do not share that ancestral past? What message does it give?

Try "your ancestral nations' history doesn't matter."

[potatoe]

86. An American citizen's bloodlines don't affect

his cultural inheritance. All American citizens, regardless of who their ancestors were, have an interest in sharing an understanding of their nation's cultural roots. The ideas that formed our fundamental beliefs about how citizens live together in community came from Europe, England especially.

Many students are being cheated. Teaching resources and classroom time are limited, and should be focused on what is most important.

[NashVegas]

87. "Kiss Me - I'm Irish"

You don't think so?

[potatoe]

88. It's good to remember and enjoy

and be inspired by our own ancestor's unique cultures, but I do think we need more commonality. An shared understanding of our nation's history is so very important to all of us.

History is a subject that can and should captivate students. A lot of history textbooks are now being written by committees, instead of by a single author with a gift for narration.

[Bridget Burke]

91. African-Americans were among the first settlers.

They were building what became the USA with their sweat & blood. And their cultural contribution helped make us the country we are.

Most of my own ancestors got here much later. And they didn't come from England.

[CarlWoodward]

40. Why does everyone assume ...

.. that these kids are rich? I'm not defending them - I think their priorities are way out of line - but Catholic schools rarely correlate with wealthy students. Typically they're solidly middle-class and, in many areas, working-class or even low-income. Catholic school tuitions tend to be far lower than most private schools and are heavily subsidized by the church. And most Catholic schools reduce or waive tuition entirely for low-income parents.

The article didn't make any reference to the white kids being "rich" so I'd have to assume that it's a typical Catholic high school where the kids have a diversity of economic backgrounds.

[tx_dem41]

62. Finally, a post on this thread that actually addresses the fault of a key

assumption being made by just about everyone on this thread. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

[pelagius]

72. Excellent point! n/t

[phasev]

47. I don't know much about black history either.

does that make me racist?

Do you know much about asian american history?

[tsuki]

66. Or Arabic. Or Southeast Asia. Or Japanese. Or Chinese. Or South

American? Or even, Canadian? How much history is the average student exposed to?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

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[Bridget Burke]

92. Education doesn't stop when you graduate.

Even if you went to the best of schools, they didn't teach you everything. There are bookstores, libraries, educational TV shows & lots of stuff on the internet.

Ignorance is boring.

[mondo joe]

113. I'm told not liking rap music can be a sign of being a racist also.

And it does not give me any pleasure to say so.

[brentspeak]

49. This must have been an annoying woman

to have inspired ordinarily placid teenagers to walk out in protest. Catholic high-schoolers are not known as the activist types.

If I had to sit still and be subject to some self-righteous person pointing her rigid finger at me, I'd probably do the same thing as these kids. Too bad they didn't do it while she was speaking.

[Democrats_win]

52. Empathy with students. They don't control the curriculum.

The speaker should have addresed the administration rather than blame the students.

[makhno]

67. Why not afford these kids the same courtesy ...

... we afforded the Larry Summers audience? Could they have been upset for a reason?

[maxsolomon]

76. could we stop jumping to "rascist" immediately?

in general, we're misapplying that term.

the kids may be IGNORANT or PREDJUDICED or BIGOTED, but "rascist" is too strong.

i'd get pissed if i got called a rascist, too.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

78. so, let me get this straight tensions built up from a speech last week

and some students walked out of classes Tuesday?

"hey im still mad about that speech last week, let's leave class in protest today because of it."

where are the authority figures telling the kids to get the fuck over it and their asses back in class? sounds like a bunch of spoiled kids to me. now they're drawing kkk letters on the black students lockers'. looks like the speaker was on to something IMHO.

[Bridget Burke]

93. Hey, some people are having Spring Break.

Check out those cuties dancing on the beach on MTV. But these poor kids were stuck in school, being lectured. Any excuse to leave class...

[SheepyMcSheepster]

94. "now they're drawing kkk letters on the black students lockers'"

i don't think the article implied that this is happening "now" as a result of the speaker or even before the speaker. i think this was an "in general" kind of statement. of course the article gives no details about this statment so it can be taken how ever you want to read it.

"They don't know what it is like to open up your locker and see a KKK letter there. It's not the most comfortable feeling at all," said African-American student Kristen Minoh.

my point is i don't think it is fair to assume that the "KKK" in the lockers is happening "now", or at least i don't believe that is what person quoted meant to convey.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[Ellen Forradalom]

90. What a tremendous loss

for both the speaker and the audience.

[mondo joe]

99. If she truly was "lambasting" a student I support the walk out

I don't think that's acceptable.

[union_maid]

114. Need to see the speech

Overall, it sounds counterproductive and that's too bad. Younger people need to learn about things like this because, frankly, they don't really have a clue and that's not their fault. Kids live in the reality that they see. If no one tells them about other realities, they're not going to know about them. Presented correctly, it might have been riveting for them. Of course, maybe not. I don't know anything about the population of that school, either. I've heard that might be in the same genre, though, and if so, they're not helpful.

[Mr.Green93]

120. The students need to be told.

Their race is the problem. And they need to own up to it.

[Moderator]

124. locking

the thread has outlived productive discussion.