Bush seeks regime change in Iran, but his route is unclear, experts say

[Swamp Rat]

Bush seeks regime change in Iran, but his route is unclear, experts say

Tue Feb 8, 9:35 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) has been actively behind "regime change" for Iran but the route to that end has yet to be defined and the perils are great, US experts said.

Bush and his top aides have turned up the volume in their verbal attacks on the Islamic republic, calling it an "outpost of tyranny" and one of the principal backers of international terror, on its way to developing a nuclear weapon.

(snip)

"I have no doubt the president and his closest advisers believe that the way both to solve the nuclear problem but also to deal with terrorism and improve the lives of the Iranian people is regime change," said George Perkovich, an Iran specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Washington think tank.

(snip)

"Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have not ruled out the use of force, not only to potentially destroy Iran's nuclear sites, but also to weaken the regime."

(snip)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/2005...

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[davidinalameda]

1. unlike Iraq

the Iranians will fight back and their allies in Iraq will fight back, probably bringing in Israel which will bring in Syria and other Arab nations on the side of Israel

let's see--no oil coming out of the middle east, our economy goes further into the toilet, and not to mention even more American troops dying

and probably terrorist attacks in the US

this is WW3 waiting to happen

[AFSCME girl]

3. Yep n/t

:scared:

[BrotherBuzz]

10. Throw Venezuela into the equation....

and we really have a mess...

[XNASA]

2. Route unclear? But, but......what do we have to fear!!!!!

God is on our side. Right? :eyes:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

4. .........

[cthrumatrix]

5. Look who is behind this march to war --- Liberman is one of them!

A group of legislators has introduced in the US House of Representatives a draft bill, the Iran Freedom Support Act, which would provide further political and financial support for so-called pro-democracy elements, especially opposition television and radio.


The Committee on the Present Danger, a group of Washington heavyweights, including former Republican secretary of state George Shultz and former Democratic presidential hopeful Joseph Lieberman, have released a document saying, "We recommend a peaceful but forceful strategy to engage the Iranian people to remove the threat and establish a strong relationship, which is in both nations' and the regions's interests."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1520&u=/afp/20050208/pl_afp/usirannuclear_050208143518&printer=1

[davidinalameda]

6. if Bush had supported the moderate government when it was still in power

none of this shit would be happening!

Bush allowed the conservatives to take over the government by refusing to work with the moderates

[cthrumatrix]

8. Nice name.... Committe on the Present Danger ..... Liberman is a traitor

to peace and democracy.

[starroute]

23. The Committee on the Present Danger? Not a third time!

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/groupwatch/cpd.php

The original Committee on the Present Danger (CPD) was formed in 1950 by top eastern establishment luminaries. It was designed as a "citizen's lobby" to alert the nation to the Soviet "present danger," and the resultant need to adopt the NSC-68 agenda in order to survive. NSC-68 was a top secret National Security Council document written by Paul Nitze promoting a huge military build-up for the purpose of rolling back communist influence and attaining and maintaining U.S. military supremacy in the world. In 1951 the CPD launched a three-month scare campaign over the NBC network. Every Sunday night thereafter the group used the Mutual Broadcasting System to talk to the nation about the "present danger" and the need to take action. As a result of efforts such as these both in and out of government, the recommendations of NSC-68 were adopted. President Harry Truman adopted a policy of containment militarism and the military budget escalated even more than the targeted factor of three times. The Cold War and an era of interventionist policies became a political reality in the United States.

<snip>


The revitalization of the CPD grew out of an independent group called Team B. Team B was authorized in 1976 by President Gerald Ford and organized by then-CIA chief, George Bush. The purpose of Team B was to develop an independent judgment of Soviet capabilities and intentions. Team B was headed by Richard Pipes and included Paul Nitze, Foy Kohler, William Van Cleave, Lt. Gen. Daniel O. Graham (ret. ), Thomas Wolf of RAND Corp and Gen. John Vogt, Jr. (ret. ). Also a part of Team B were five officials still active in government: Maj. Gen. George Keegan, Brig. Gen. Jasper Welch, Paul D. Wolfowitz of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, and Seymour Weiss of the State Department. Team B was housed in the offices of the Coalition for a Democratic Majority.

http://www.alternet.org/story/19647/
August 25, 2004.

With full-page ads in the Washington Post and the New York Times, and a sparkling new multi-media website flashing photos of recent terror attacks in India and Indonesia, the Committee on the Present Danger (CPD) re-launched itself with a bang last month, proclaiming its new mission to be "dedicated to winning the war on terror."

What it didn't say is that the billionaire philanthropists behind the CPD intend to broaden this "war on terror" beyond al-Qaeda to focus on all militant jihadist groups, including Israel's perceived enemies.

Writing in the July 20 edition of the Washington Post, Committee honorary co-chairs Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) described the focus of this new, third incarnation of the Committee as "international terrorism from Islamic extremists and the outlaw states that either harbor or support them."

<snip>

Chaired by former CIA director James Woolsey, the reborn Committee has 49 members in all, including many well known hawks and neoconservatives affiliated with the American Enterprise Institute (Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Danielle Pletka, Joshua Muravchik, Laurie Mylroie, Newt Gingrich, Michael Rubin), former Attorney General Edwin Meese, Victor Davis Hanson of Stanford's Hoover Institution, Norm Podhoretz of Commentary fame, Charles Kupperman of Boeing Missile Defense Systems, former Reagan official Jack Kemp, former Congressional staffer-turned-lobbyist and Project for the New American Century board member Randy Scheunemann; and several anti-arms control hawks – Henry Cooper, Jim Woolsey himself, Kenneth Adelman, Max Kampelman – reminiscent of the Committee's earlier two incarnations.

Can't these guys just shut up and go away for a change?

[Swamp Rat]

29. Where's Daniel Pipes?

Is he related to Richard Pipes?

[DontBlameMe]

41. As opposed to...

say, Wesley Pipes? Because, we're screwed if they bring out Billy Bong Thornton.

[Supersedeas]

17. dwick, your linkie up top is not working for me

[Swamp Rat]

20. New Link:

For some reason the link was broken. Here's a new one:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050208/pl_afp/usirannuclear_050208143518

[punpirate]

28. That could just as easily...

... describe the political situation in the US, as well as in Iran....

[DulceDecorum]

11. If you read the Bible

you will see that when King Solomon died, his son Rehoboam inherited the kingdom.
This twit was used to having Daddy bail him out of trouble. He acquired a posse who told him to strut his stuff. By the time it was all over, the king don of Israel was rent asunder and ten tribes had walked out in protest. They have not yet returned.

They say that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[No Exit]

33. Does this mean Joe is being made an honorary neocon?

I get mixed messages from Lieberman. Maybe it's just that I haven't gone in-depth to try to really figure out who owns him (referring to the fact that every member of congress is in a sense "owned" by those who back them most strongly and most lucratively). Or maybe it's because he really does send mixed messages.

I can't gain a feeling of trust for him at this time. If Gore runs in 2008, I hope he has another running mate.

[Mandate My Ass]

7. Goodie, the carpet of gold or a carpet of bombs gambit again

I personally can't wait to see what happens when Eye-ran catches wind of this. :nuke:

[AzDar]

9. Time to trigger "Armageddon", eh? The Fundies are growing impatient!

[Skink]

12. He'll wait until the wind is blowing out to sea...

to minimize the Nuclear fall out.

[Botany]

13. I promise 20 million in the streets if we invade Iran.

This country would rip apart at the seems. I myself, would not be silent if "they"
tried that crap. Does bush have the slightest clue of how big a hole he is in?

The only people who should go to Iran are bush, his family, rush, delay, cheney,
rummy, rice, alberto, all those young republicans on the college campuses, Inhoff,
Deb Pryce, Frist, wolfi, and all the PNAC folk. Hell, they can go to Iraq too. The election was a success ......

:bounce:

[NYC]

43. I don't believe that.

You said: "I promise 20 million in the streets if we invade Iran."

I think the Iraq War protestors will be out there again plus a few more. I don't think the numbers will suddenly double or more. I really don't.

We'll have the same cable television build up, the same lame excuses, the same rah-rah whatever.

What would make Americans rebel against the Iran War when they didn't rebel against the Iraq War?

[Supersedeas]

14. Regime Change has been Official US policy for a long time??

Regime Change....where have I heard that before?

Not Iraq...yes Iran...America has always wanted Regime Change in Iran.

And we have always been at war with EurAsia.

[caligirl]

15. related thread. HR 282 This Act may be cited as the `Iran Freedom Support

Head's Up - HR Bill 282 ----- Regime Change in Iran.....It's Here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3073014

[JohnOneillsMemory]

16. "America withdraws 25,000 troops from Iraq secretly over weekend" 2/7/05

(This is from Omar Al-Faris at the Jihad Unspun website. I have no idea how reliable this is. The website says it is dedicated to exposing the reality of the 'War on Terror' but I have no idea who is behind it. It claims that a large number of US troops was secretly pulled out under an electronically-scrambled news blackout of the event.)

http://www.jihadunspun.net/index-side_internal.php?article=101574&list=/home.php&

>snip<

In an abrupt move, American occupation forces withdrew 25,000 troops from Iraq over the weekend, according to Islam Memo.

Citing reports from their correspondent in Basra and other eye witnesses, more than 65 military jets left Basra airbase and 40 American ships left the port of Basra, all carrying the troops to Kuwait. The sudden departure was also confirmed by Mr. Kamal Albasry, an administrator in charge of Um Al-Qasr port.

Many of the extracted troops were said to be mentally and physically impaired, unable to continue their military duties, and had therefore been deemed inactive. US military officials had previously announced that some troops would be withdrawn under the guise of handing more responsibility to the newly formed Allawi “National Guard” however it was indicated that these would be small numbers over time, not the significant evacuation that occurred over the weekend. There were no official US military statment on the departure.

>snip<

US Military Bans Journalists, Photographers and Cameras

As more and more people became aware of the mass exodus of American troops out of Basra, many came to take a peek and some with the hopes of photographing the event. American and British occupation forces quickly closed off all major roads leading to the city. The Americans also prohibited journalists from approaching any military convoy. One journalist was arrested and his camera was confiscated after he took pictures of large numbers of American soldiers entering Basra airport on their way out of Iraq.

During the withdrawl, several fighter jets, reconnaissance planes, and unmanned spy planes filled Basra skies over Basra. All satellite, mobile phones and internet communications in the city were also scrambled to black out information pertaining to the event.

[caligirl]

18. self deleted, see my next comment to follow

[caligirl]

22. A division is coming back post Iraq election as promised in November

Remember that they wanted to keep about 150,000 troops in Iraq until after the Jan 30 election. They did this by keeping a division of troops there longer than planned. They promised to send them back after elections. This is that division with equipment(ie, ships to carry stuff) returning. The large numbers leaving at one time are a tempting target and so the jets overhead and other aircraft are likely protecting the troops from being attacked while leaving.

[seafan]

26. At end of article: US Transport Plane shot down on approach

Apparently around 6 pm local time Sunday...

Mujahideen Bid Farewell With 30 Rockets; US Transport Plane Downed

In the meantime, Mujahideen targeted the Basra airport with an assortment of powerful rockets as well as 12mm mortar rounds while American soldiers were withdrawing. Over 30 rockets were said to have been fired as an act of “farewell”. The number of casualties is not known.

Sources in Basra reported that an American transport plane was shot down an area east of the city as it made its final approach towards Basra airport at about 6pm Sunday, local time after it came under attack from ground fire. No further information on the incident is available as of press.

http://www.jihadunspun.net/index-side_internal.php?article=101574&list=/home.php&

Does anyone know anything about the reliability of this source?

[Swamp Rat]

19. New Link:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050208/pl_afp/usirannuclear_050208143518

[Redstone]

21. Big boom,

soon come.



Redstone

[bajamary]

24. Yes, they have already planned the attacks

Seymour Hersh has a great article in the New Yorker magazine about their plans to attack Iran.

Here's another great article: Seymour Hersh: "We've Been Taken Over by a Cult"

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/26/1450204

Do Something. Work for Peace and Justice.

[ctaylor]

36. Of course we have preplanned attacks.

Crap... we probably still have contingency plans to invade Canada if we have to. I'd be upset if I found out we didn't have plans for everything. What do those guys in that big 5 sided building do all day, play Doom3? Not that the plans work... "No plan survives contact with the enemy" and all that. But at least it gives the logistics guys a starting point.

[PROUDNWLIBERAL]

38. How it May Happen

The Israelis will use American Air Bases in Iraq to hit Iranian targets. American war planes may take out air defense systems prior to the Israeli attack. There will be many body bags before this is over! How much death will this Christian idiot spew upon the world?!

[daleo]

25. Anagram for unclear = nuclear.

Anagram for Bush = Uh, B.S.

[frankieT]

27. omg ! i hope it's just a coincidence -eom-

[Redstone]

32. Great anagrams!

Especially the one for bush--tough to make an anagram of a word with only 4 letters.

Redstone

[arikara]

30. And the drumbeat gets louder...

But they have also said they would give a chance for mediation by Britain, France and Germany to wean Iran away from its nuclear ambitions, while being skeptical about chances for a diplomatic success.

Sound familiar?

[formerrepuke]

31. We need to be prepared...

Anyone ready for a nationwide general strike if Iran is bothered? None of this "not-one-dime/turn-your-back" stuff either... but a good old-fashioned French-style general strike.

[Geek_Girl]

34. I think this is the real reason we may attack Iran

<snip>
The Bush administration may take advantage of the soft energy market to continue their oil imperialism in the Middle East and elsewhere. It appears that the neocons have their sights on Iran. Bush has made some threats against Iran recently, using the excuses of Iranian nuclear potential and alleged Iranian interference in Iraq. Over the past year, Iran has been taking aim directly at corporate interests and US dollar hegemony. Iran has been working to set up its own oil market - sort of a world trade center of oil - and to price this market in euros. Iran is doing this intentionally to break the power of the oil majors over the oil market. This cannot be tolerated by the US neocons. So look for them to try to bust the Iranian oil bourse and depose the government through some covert means. But should the covert means fail, or should they feel time is short, then we can expect Bush to bring his already beleaguered war machine to Iran.

Following the 2004 US election, many foreign interests are considering taking matters into their own hands. The problem for them is that any action they take against the US will also hurt them to some extent. And nobody wants to piss off the US too openly; after all, we are the only country to use nuclear weapons in combat. But Iran has been pushed around by the US for years, and might feel that it has little to lose and everything to gain. An invasion of Iran would make Iraq look like a cake walk. And there is always the possibility that it could set off the entire powder keg known as the Middle East.

The US/British imperialist gambit is growing more dangerous by the day. And the Bush administration has gone too far to stop now. They will push the conquest of the Middle East and other oil bearing or geo-strategic areas. To fail now is to cease to be a superpower.

</snip>

Link

[reprobate]

44. Right on, GG. The euro was one of the reasons Saddam was attacked.

He moved to the euro in 2000 and they were afraid of others following. With Iran doing the same, and even setting up their own oil market, they will have no choice. Either attack or watch the US economy slide into the honeybucket.

And I don't think it will be just an air attack on the nuke facilities. It will be a ground war in order to change regimes and install our own government. Their plan, from what Hersch said, is to attack the nuke installations and foment the people of Iran into deposing the mullahs. That's a plan that is doomed from the start. What it will do is touch off massive Iranian nationalism.

Bush is such a screw up that there is no doubt in my mind that he will attack Iran. I just hope that he doesn't put any carriers in the Persian gulf for air cover. As you probably know from reading this board, Iran has SS-N-22 and 25 anti-ship cruise missiles from Russia. There is NO defense against these munitions. One of them, if it strikes a carrier, will penetrate into the interior before it explodes. It can cut a carrier in half. Five thousand men and women will have to swim for it.

Aside from that, I'm afraid that an attack on Iran will result in the decimation of our forces in Iraq. I can see a million Iranians and a million Iraqis with our 120,000 in the middle. Fifty thousand casualties is not beyond possibilities. Of course, numb nuts will use nukes in retaliation, and there goes the United States of America. We aren't the only nation with nukes, but we WILL be the target for everyone else.

It's a strange way to think, but I'm beginning to believe that we will have to go thru all of this before things get any better. For one thing the bush cabal has to be stopped one way or the other, and there's no one here that will do it. For another, something must happen to change the attitude of ALL Americans away from the 'shoot first and ask questions later' to a mindset of cooperation to solve the problems that American corporatism has given the world.

But then I'm a cynic.

[bling bling]

35. I have a suggested route for him...

Why doesn't he take his chickenshit butt over to Iran and risk his own life to change the regime.

[wrate]

40. Because other are doing it for him, that is why. n/t

[GHOSTDANCER]

37. They never stop talking shit, do they?

[pinniped]

39. No nation building, the asshole said.

I think we all agree which country needs a regime change.

[tlcandie]

42. If we only new he meant/intended tearing down nations instead...

:cry:

[Lisa]

45. "his route is unclear" -- nice way to say "doesn't know what he's doing"

I'll have to remember that, when performance evaluation time comes around and people get slammed for being "too blunt".