US aid for college students slashed

[wicket]

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/11/23/us_aid_for_college_students_slashed/

Nearly a quarter of low- and moderate-income college students who currently qualify for federal Pell grants will see their awards reduced or eliminated under a change in federal rules that Congress allowed in its new spending bill passed over the weekend, according to an estimate from higher education analysts.

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About 85,000 of the 5.2 million students currently eligible to receive Pell grants will become ineligible. And 1.2 million others will get a smaller award under a new formula the government will use to determine how much families can afford to pay for college, according to estimates from the American Council on Education, or ACE. The change will take effect for students starting or returning to classes next summer or fall.

Higher education officials worry that the change, estimated to save the government about $300 million in next year's budget, will hurt students already struggling to pay for college.

''Nobody knows if the change will actually lead anybody to abandon their plans for postsecondary education," said Terry Hartle, senior vice president at ACE. ''The best-case scenario is that families will have to dig deeper to pay for college, perhaps by working more hours or taking out more loans."

--------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to Bush world. :grr: :grr:

[prayin4rain]

1. That is the best case scenario? n/t

[Orsino]

2. Another Brick in the Wall

Chalk up another success in the corporatists' forced march toward ignorance. They're cranking out Bush voters as fast as they can.

[pokercat999]

57. Walmart don't need no stinking college grad-u-ates.

And the republican party sure as hell doesn't want Americans that can think for themselves.

[qanda]

3. Some families are working so many hours already

That I hope they're planning to add more hours to the day if they expect them to work more. This is just shameful.

[Wetzelbill]

4. great...I'm f***ed

[struggle4progress]

83. Are you a student? Organize students. You'll either win or ...

... radicalize hundreds. Back in the Reagan era, the White House decided grad students should pay income tax on tuition/fee remissions offered by schools; the students organized, and the White House backed down.

[doctor klahn]

89. Funny

I started grad classes this year and I get a tuition exemption for 7 credits, because I work for the university. For the past 3 weeks, and until the 1st of '05, I am getting taxed to holy hell for my classes.

Apparently they started doing this again...bastards. Im already working full time and going to school, and getting almost my entire paycheck taken away to pay for taxes on my classes really sucks, since, If I didnt work full time, I couldnt go back to school...

[noonwitch]

5. I guess those students will just have to join the army for the GI Bill

If they survive the Oil Wars, they can get a free college education.

[Bozita]

15. Yep, military enlistments are down

Bush needs more "volunteers."

[MountainLaurel]

33. Coincidence?

I think not.

[RivetJoint]

61. Actually all the services met their recruiting quotas..

The National Guard fell short, but not the active duty services.

[Zero Gravitas]

70. recruiting quotas

and do those quotas take into account the Iraq train wreck or were they based on Operation Cakewalk being the success von Rumsfeld said it would be?

Given this Administration's contempt for reality I would assume these quotas have not been changed to provide more cannon fodder for Iraq or any other crazy war they might want to start in the future.

[moondust]

65. Bingo!

Another backdoor draft.

[sonicx]

6. I hope the College Freepers are happy...

i hear there're job opportunities in Iraq for em...

[mulethree]

7. A little help for the reporters

Please see the third presidential debate for lots of juicy
soundbites you can repeat over and over and over on your news shows.

Certainly more important that seeing some basketball fight over and over and over.

[gratuitous]

8. Well, we all have to pay for Bush's man date

May not apply to the overrich.

[Straight Shooter]

9. Work more hours without overtime; take out more loans with higher rates

That's a solution?

America slips further and further into the abyss.

[BREMPRO]

10. and just guess who benifits?

the bush pioneers who own financial services companies who can now sell more private gap loans to families so they can pay for college. privatize us, profitize bush. This utterly shameful, and more of hypocracy from the bush camp who claimed during the debates that the pell grant was being expanded.

[jojo54]

11. How much more can we take?

My daughter has already taken out 24K in student loans, that we have co-signed for. This is a double edged sword, here. She's in debt up to her belly (so far) just to get this education that Bush has so devoutly stated that all have a right to, and now her Dad and I are putting any future loans for ourselves in jeopardy.

Welcome to Bush's world is an understatement. Welcome to HELL is more like it!

[phantom power]

12. "nobody knows"

Of course they know that some people will abandon their plans. It's just a matter of how many. These people are contemptible. They won't even face up to the obvious consequences of these decisions.

[RedEarth]

13. Security Moms......how do you like george now????????

[Child_Of_Isis]

96. I have an acquaintance who voted for shrub.

She has three kids in college.

[Beetwasher]

14. All Part Of The Plan

To keep the serfs uneducated and in debt forever...

BOW DOWN TO YOUR REPUBLICAN OVERLORDS!!!

[depakid]

16. It's been part of the plan since the Reagan administration

and it's worked remarkably well for them, don't you think?

[jdj]

34. man, they Reagan screwed me in 87 by cutting my pell

and I JUST GOT my award letter the other day to go back to school, I just can't believe the timing.

Oh well.

[George_S]

97. Sounds like a joke.

But it isn't. It really isn't. Compassionate conservatism means let the weak or needy perish. That is real compassion for the strong.

[yellowcanine]

17. Neat trick. Increase amount for Pell grants but make less people eligble.

So if less people are eligible we won't need the money for Pell grants and we can use it to send you to Eyerack, since you can't afford to go to college. NOW do ya feel better? Well, do ya?

[Raster]

40. That's like announcing all kinds of good programs, only not funding them.

This is a $hrubco specialty.

[KDLarsen]

53. Like..

No Child Left Behind, DoHS, TSA etc?

Nothing new on that front, really.

[Raster]

67. No, nothing new. Just describing the usual pattern.

[tom II]

18. Helps keep tuition down ?

I have long thought that the more money we throw at college kids, the quicker the Universities increase the costs to the students. This cannot possibly continue ad infinitum. Unless the Universities are forced to tighten their belts; there will always be a demand for more money for college kids. In more than 1 state the Legislatures have finally said enough is enough; no additional funding for Universities until they get their costs in line.

[mac56]

74. Welcome - and - are you serious?!

Do you really think that UGA and other state universities increase their fees as a result of PELL grants?

Where do you get your information?

A fellow Georgian wants to know.

[Mandate My Ass]

86. Since when does punishing the needy rein in university costs?

:crazy:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

90. Oh brother

You don't believe in evolution. I guess you don't believe in public education either.

[Dr Fate]

19. Should have put your X-Box controllers down for one hour & voted.

Dont blame me- I worked hard, volunteered, and voted for John Kerry.

[Sleepless In NY]

44. Dr Fate... they did and they went for Kerry

"In fact, exit polls said young people were the only age bracket to break for Kerry, 54-45." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6471283/site/newsweek/

[Dr Fate]

46. I am pleased to read this take on things...

...I hope it is the case...

Thanks for the informative link...

[mrbassman03]

77. WTF is that? The polling place at my school was packed...

And I was one of them.

[Robert Oak]

20. those gay bashing intolerant anti-choice freaks

don't give a rats ass. They ain't going to college.

[pffarrell]

21. And yet we can afford two million for ayacht

nice. Shows they've got their priorities right. NOt.

[DulceDecorum]

22. Those minorities ALWAYS GET

the best slots in the draft.

I was planning to go over to Fallujah myself,
but they are making me wait until they have finished sending off all those lucky ducks.
History repeats itself.

According to Tom DeLay, he desperately wanted to fight in Vietnam, but minorities had taken all the well-paying military gigs in order to escape the ghetto, depriving patriotic young men. A relatively unknown DeLay said this in 1988 to a crowd of reporters, one of whom was then prompted to ask, "Who is this idiot?"
http://veteransforkerry.home.att.net/war_heroes_of_the_republican_par.htm

[Bozita]

23. Good post! ... Never forget the heroism of Tom DeLay

[Chimpanzee]

79. Maybe he'd like to go now! Lets send him to Falluja!

[Scooter24]

24. H.R. 4200- Increasing Military GI Bill

The president and Republicans love to take away from the poor and gives to the military.
------
H.R 4200 authorizing the creation of a new education benefit was signed into law on October 28, 2004. The new benefit, Chapter 1607, makes certain individuals who were activated after September 11, 2001 either eligible for education benefits or eligible for increased benefits.


So, we slash money to our poorer citizens, but give more to be in the military. I can see military recruiters drooling over this prospect. You can count on them gloating about it at their next High School presentation.

[Barkley]

71. Great Post/Information Scooter24

I agree with you message.
They are cutting the poor's access to eduction
and making the military more "attrative".

That's how they will make up for the needed troops.

Great post!
It's powerful evidence
:kick:

[dean_dem]

25. And meanwhile college tuitions continue to go up....

I guess you only can get a good education in this country if Daddy buys your way into Yale.

[Peter1x9]

26. At this rate they won't even need a draft.

Kids from poor families will be flocking to the military recruitment centers all over the US.

[wicket]

29. I'm afraid your right

:(

[prolesunited]

32. It's called the poverty draft

Google it and you'll soon discover that this is their plan.

[damntexdem]

27. Just using some of that political capital.

What use is it unless it narrows the opportunities of those without financial capital?

[Maine-ah]

28. keep 'em dumb and keep 'em scared.

:wtf:

[Ima]

30. Elementary my dear Watson

We don't need, all these American kids, with college educations.


We can hire the Indian/etc, for pennies on the dollar.



Look at how many educated Americans, can't find a job now.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

36. And it sure would be a shame to have any new scientists

that could prove global warming is just as bad a theory
as evolution-ism.

[Endangered Specie]

31. Ok, now I really REALLY hate that motherfucker.

[wicket]

35. Amen to that...

:grr:

[PrisonerLazy8]

37. I know nothing about pell grants or any other grants

I went back to four years of school when I turned 21 and worked three jobs to pay for school, loans and a roof over my head. In fact, I'm 45 now and finally paying off my last college loan. I suppose there were grants available back then under Carter but I figured it was up to me to earn my way through school and to work hard.

Now I have free time, good pay and a clear mind that I NEVER used the sweat or others to get where I am. What we need now are more proud people that are not afraid to bust ass to make a future for themselves.

[wicket]

38. Give me a break!

The vast majority of people getting pell grants are those who would not be able to afford college any other way, not because they are lazy and want to "use the sweat of others" as you put it. :eyes: By the way, whose money do you think it was that was loaned to you for student loans??

[PrisonerLazy8]

42. Do the pell grants have to be paid back?

My student loans had to be repaid. Is this true too with these pell grants?

[Sideways]

54. I've Had Your Number Lazy Since The Day Your Stench Arrived

And it isn't 8. Think you got a bit too cocky on this thread..dropped your guard a bit....and POOF the inner freeper appeared. You won't be here too much longer asshat.

[bling bling]

55. I've been watching him too. Typically, he is also a dolt.

Says he's 45 years old now, went back to school when he was 21 under Carter?? 24 years ago was 1980. If he started school in the fall, Reagan was elected in November and inaugurated the following January. Shouldn't he have referenced Reagan, and not Carter?

Not only that, but what school did he go to that he worked 3 jobs and still had to take out a 24 year loan to pay for tuition? Somehow I don't think so in his case.

[Sideways]

56. Dolt Is Putting It Kindly He Is An ASSHAT

[wicket]

66. Damn straight!

You'd think people would have something better to do with their time than go around trying to stir up trouble! Grrr...

[Chimpanzee]

80. FREEPER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[masshole1979]

84. I got a Pell grant

1) they do not have to be repaid. They are Grants, not loans, and as such do not have to be repaid unless they accuse you of not really having been eligible.

2) at $33,000/year total pricetag for my school (tuition, fees, room & board, direct ac. expenses), I got not only Pell Grants, but got more than $23,000 in grants and $7,000 in loans per year, from state, feds, and mostly my university...and guess what, I was still struggling to make ends meet. Because once tuition is covered, and fees, there's room and board (partially covered in my case), books and supplies, essentials like toothpaste, and the fact that it's practically required that you have a PC.

You simply can't work 40 hours/week at a competitive university. I worked through spring break every year but the time I went to Habitat for Humanity, worked through my senior spring...went into deep credit card debt...it's crazy. Now I'm slowly paying off my student loans, and it is not easy to graduate college into this economy, trust me.

[NurseLefty]

88. Quit being facetious...

Don't ask a question to which you already know the answer...
BTW buddy,I have Pell Grants AND loans AND I've had to work to get myself through school... W just wants to keep the people down. Too many "fancy pants intellectuals" in the country will intimidate him. Hell, if I was as stupid as him, I'd be intimidated, too.
Looks like you're on alert - watch out!

[steely]

95. "Coked-up frat boy" has his education handed to him....

It was a struggle when I went - and I had no family who could dig deep if it all - this frosts me. I rememeber almost every year having to wait until the last minute so I had $omething to hand over to the bursar, and I remember how tough it was.

I worked (over the table) one year so I could eat of course, and I lost a grant because of it - after that I learned.

Five (5) Bln a day for the war, and not 0.3 Bln for education for the year?

[tabasco]

47. God forbid if a society helps its young people get an education.

What a horrendous idea.

I would rather my tax dollars help people get educated than subsidize massive corporations. Do you have the same moral problems with corporate welfare, which is thousands of times more than Pell grants?
I suspect not.

I worked my way through college too but I'll spare you the sanctimonious sermon.

Pell grants are not that much to each student. My roomate got one for $ 300 per semester for one year.

Combat Vet

[bling bling]

50. You don't fool me. n/t

[NickB79]

73. I earned my Pell grants, trust me

I grew up on a small family farm, working on it since I was quite young. Our net income was ~$25,000 per year; for a family of five this is poverty-level. To make ends meet, we were on the WIC program (free government cheese, peanut butter, etc), free school lunch programs, grew much of our vegetables and fruits in our gardens and orchard, wore hand-me-down clothes, etc. We basically did everygthing we could to save money, yet I don't recall a single time when my parents had more than $2000 in either savings or checking. Without Pell grants, I would have never been able to afford college. Parents work harder, or take out more loans? My parents already worked 16-hr days on the farm, and had a $120,000 loan to pay off from when they married and bought the farm. Scholarships were few and far between in our tiny community, despite the fact that I scored highest on my ACT exam of all the students in my class. I was offered partial scholarships to several private universities, but would still have had to pay $5000-$10,000 per year to attend. I ended up attending a very good yet cheap state university, and while there was always employed at least 20 hrs a week to pay bills not covered by Pell Grants. During the summers I worked 40+ hrs AND went home when I could to help on the farm.

My family and I worked damn hard for years to put cheap food in the mouths of people like you. I DID bust my ass, and those Pell Grants were the least I could get in return for my work.

[conflictgirl]

85. I earned every dollar of my Pell grant, thankyouverymuch

Until now, I received Pell grants for my first two years of school. I have three children and work from home, and still managed to pull off a 3.9 GPA. If that's not "busting ass", I don't know what is.

I had to go today to sign my first student loan ever for next semester. I lost all of my Pell. Don't know how I'll pay for child care though, we make too much to qualify for assistance there....

[Guaranteed]

39. Yup, that's our President! He loves education, you know! nt

[will work 4 food]

93. I remember this topic in the Presidential Debate

Kerry let Bush steal the thunder on it. He could have hammered the chimp, but it seemed like he ran out of facts as he was not briefed thorough enough.

[Politicub]

41. I was a Pell Grant recipient

I'm so thankful that I got my BA ten years ago. I had to put myself through with Pell Grants, loans, work study, because I came from a poor family. College changed my life for the better, and it's sad that it is becoming less accessible to those who could benefit from it but can't afford it.

It's just a shame that we put so much money into weapons and subsidies than we do into things that would improve all of our lives. :shrug:

[Sleepless In NY]

43. this is payback for the Youth Vote that went for Kerry

"young people were the only age bracket to break for Kerry, 54-45."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6471283/site/newsweek/

[SillyGoose]

45. College aid slashed

but they had 1 million for the Wild American Shrimp Initiative. WTF?


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5...

[Kool Kitty]

48. I don't see a problem here.

You won't need a college education to fight in one of the little emperor's many wars.

"Leave No Child Behind", my ass.

[wicket]

75. Sounds about right

n/t

[talk hard]

49. Gotta keep kids stupid so they'll vote Republican.

"As people do better; they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing."

KKKarl Rove

[Bozita]

51. That Rove quote belongs on billboards

Information may be harmful to the Repuglican Party.

[Bozita]

52. GWB: "There ought to be limits to freedom"

Rove feels the same way about education.

[The Zanti Regent]

58. You still think secession is a bad idea?

I don't.

F Jesusland and stick them with the debts!

[mutius]

59. Bush in the debate

Bush was asked the question? What do you tell someone who lost their job? He ingenious replay was, we're going to send you to school train you for a better job. But in the mean time you can live in the streets, eat garbage, and collect aluminum cans for college tuition.:wow:

[mutius]

60. Jerry Falwell

Let Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the rest of the rich, and I mean rich, evangelicals pay for tuition.

[Massachusetts]

62. Do not discount

the great value of a Community College. In Mass. you can transfer (with a req'd cum avg.), to a State 4 year College, and complete the degree. Big Savings IMHO

[arwalden]

63. (processing error)

[arwalden]

64. Now Poor Students Can Be Coerced Into Enlisting For "Free" Tuition...

if they survive Iraq.

[progressivebydesign]

68. Half of America deserves this...

.. the rest of us, who listened to Kerry, do not. Fuck the Republicans. Make it harder for Americans to get an education, at a time when our jobs are disappearing, and THEN diminish our ability to produce good technical and scientific and health professionals, good fucking plan.

[Zero Gravitas]

69. Who needs an edumacation

when everything you need to know about anything is in the Bible (mostly the Old Testament and Revelations) :eyes:

[LynnTheDem]

72. KERRY said bush would cut Pell grants...BUSH said he wouldn't. BUSH LIED

Again. As always.

And the 51% Incredibly Ignorant Americans will thank bush for fucking them.

[VegasWolf]

76. awol say's its a proven fact that poor people are so malnourished -

that they could not possibly benefit from a higher education.

[Chimpanzee]

78. Thanks again, Herr Bush

[JPZenger]

81. But Plenty of Money For the Trip to Mars

Bush cut college aid, but found almost $1 Billion to increase funding on sending a person to Mars in the recently passed budget. Funny, I don't remember the trip to Mars being mentioned as the President's highest priority in his stump speeches.

To all the college students who voted for Bush, and who had their entire financial future mortgaged by Bush to pay for tax cuts - we can say a big "Told You So." Hopefully, the right wing will get so mad with power that there will be hundreds of stories like this one. Then the pendulum will swing back to the left.

[masshole1979]

82. they've already watered the grants down so much...

...when I was in college, they generally gave out the maximum $2,000 grant (only $31,000 more to go! yippeeee!!!!!)

now my sister tells me that they've cut down on the average grant size so that more people can qualify--i.e., people who just need it less (not that they don't need it).

now it looks like they're going to bump out the not-so-needy without un-diluting the grants, right? that the gist?

[purduejake]

87. My education is worthless anyway...

without a job.

[WindRavenX]

91. Meh, it's not like I needed an edumication

I'll just vote for Bush. :crazy:
FWIW, my Pell grants went from 4K to 1K and I go to a 40K a year school (thankfully the school pays for everything that my family can't, but I still need to take out loans).
So here's a nice big FU to Bush for fucking the youth of the world over :mad:

[struggle4progress]

92. kick

:kick:

[420inTN]

94. That sucks.

Personally, I was never eligible for a pell grant. My parents made too much money (barely), but couldn't afford to pay for my college. I paid for it myself through scholarships, loans, working two jobs, and finally, working for a company that gave tuition reimbursement (FedEx).

I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, but it definitely gave me an appreciation for my education, and helped me to focus on my studies. I graduated college with $15,000 in student loans and $15,000 on my credit cards. It took my seven years to pay it all off.

However, I know that I was luckier than most people who receive Pell grants. We should be increasing the number of those eligible, as well as increasing the amount given to recipients.

deit: spelling