Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The Perfect Storm?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:19 PM
Original message
The Perfect Storm?
Edited on Sat Dec-04-04 07:43 PM by Patsy Stone
This is it. I feel it.

Just like before the hurricanes that came through here this summer, there is a calm before the storm.

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next person. I have more than a few that I won't share here. My opinion of conspiracy theories is that if you say you're not a conspiracy theorist, you just don't have enough imagination.

That having been said, sometimes theories, crazy as they seem, pan out. I direct you to the one about Relativity as an example.

The election left half of the country in shock and half in awe. Those on the "losing" side were subject to endless taunts of, "Who's your Daddy?" for a day or so and then, as we all started to nurse the hangover and open the blinds a little, weird things started happening.

People started talking, and comapring notes, and crunching numbers and asking questions. People started talking about fraud. At least 400 theories of how the election was stolen came up. People started reading and examining Ohio election law.

Thoeries and facts were bunked and de-bunked, discussed, dissed, and verified. Numbers didn't match, votes were lost, voters suppressed and disinfranchised and the people were angry. Randi Rhodes, also from sunny South Florida, was the first on it. She, like I, and more so, had seen it before. But not quite like this. The concession had thrown everything into a spin.

I was one of the first to wonder why Kerry conceded. I live in Miami-Dade and down here in these parts, we don't take too kindly anymore to people not counting our votes. When the margin of victory was exceeded by the number of outstanding ballots yet to be counted, I didn't see it. But then I did.

Why wouldn't he concede? What did he stand to gain by holding off and making the people and the media sit around their TVs and radios waiting and watching for 10 days while the Ohio SoS got around to thinkin' about possibly lookin' into countin' the provisional ballots. He had always said it wouldn't go on long. That there would be a winner that night or the next morning when people woke up. This was brilliant.

He goes away. Okay, maybe we'd have liked to have seen a shot or two of him in the first few weeks to make sure he was still alive, but what was he gonna say? So the concession goes into the history books and everyone gets back to their daily lives a little beaten and nauseous, and the media takes a holiday.

And so it begins...

All of a sudden, POTUS is cracking wise about "spending political capital" while delivering the smackdown on the press at a rare press conference.

Look! Up in the Sky! He's changing Social Security! Hey what's that over there? He's attacking Fallujah! Oh, no, now he's appointing cabinet members! And, over here in the corner, he's getting the big thumbs up from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson!

Meanwhile, the media for the most part (well, those not on vacation) couldn't stop telling us about that mandate like a Greek Chorus. And letting us know that we were NOT MORAL ENOUGH for the likes of 52% of America. You know, the ones that support the actions in Iraq and still believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11?

So, like in The Ten Commandments, while Moses goes up to Mount Siani to receive the tablets, the children of Israel are left to spin conspiracies theories. The fraud accusations are swirling and websites are reporting all sorts of things that went wrong, and someone watching and reading and thinking (thanks, KO), finally picks it up and runs with it.

Funny thing is, after all this, it turns out the people were right. And now the pieces are all falling together. The Perfect Storm.

Half the people are seething, half the people are drunk with happiness. Candidates, congressional leaders and citizen groups have stepped to forward to reclaim democracy and democratic principles. Recounts are being requested and, through this and other sites, financed. The will of the people to be counted fairly and accurately will not be silenced.

Will the outcome change? Who knows. Personally, I've dreamed of a "Truman Beats Dewey" headline since Wednesday, November 3rd. The recount will go and no one will pay attention. The media will begin to cover it, perhaps, and maybe, it will change everything. Maybe it just confirm our worst fears. The best thing that will come of all of the hearings and recounts is answers to our burning questions.

What the people on this and other blogs have done is monumental. If it serves solely to shed light on the sorry, sorry state of elections in this country of ours, we all get to sleep better at night. I congratulate everyone here. Even the naysayers. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Shame on Congress for not passing legislation to require paper trails. Shame on people who supress the vote and shame on the media for taking a catnap here. Now we watch and wait.

But, if nothing else, with great admiration and apologies to Christopher Guest, "A Mighty Wind's a Blowin'."


Although I posted this diary on kos, and some of the same thoughts in other posts on DU, I just wanted to share these thoughts I've had with you guys too about what has been accomplished and what we have left to accomplish. Thanks to everyone here. Keep the faith, keep the energy and keep fighting for what we all know is the right thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. So Which Way Will It Go ?
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all doing direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities
English novelist (1812 - 1870)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Gotta love that man...
Right on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Election Mess Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
113. Lets take some grass roots action!!
What good are recounts going to do? What can we expect from recounts of polling machines that have no papertrail?

Here's what we need to do:
Lets hire an impartial (and honest) polling firm. Well poll voters in counties and districts where discrepancies appear most obvious. Lets get some solid numbers in specific post-election polls. Lets ask the voters themselves who they voted for on Nov. 2nd. If the results of these polls differ sharply from the actual results (within an acceptable margin of error) lets dig deeper.

If post-election polls don't add up will the doubters start paying attention? This could lead to more people looking at specific anomalies, no longer accepting simple theories contrived merely to rationalize "certified" results. If post-election poll results point to a different conclusion than "election results" eyes may start to open a little wider.

Who can get this started? Lets raise some money and get this rolling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good thoughts, and well expressed.
Edited on Sat Dec-04-04 07:26 PM by BrklynLiberal
We have to keep the energy going...and even if we can't actually get this idiot out of the White House we MUST make sure that this electronic voting crap is corrected by the midterm elections so that the Congress is not a total puppet to the White House for the rest of our lives!!! And that will affect the laws and the Supreme Court as well!!!
We will also have to make sure that the local legislatures are Democratic as well. This is very important for future elections too.
If nothing else, we know that all the secretaries of state better be democrats!!!!!....make that PROGRESSIVES!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. A Scary Thought:
If they stole the 2004 election (and perhaps others) and have have a "Trifecta" control of 3 branches of government, won't the fascists fight tooth and nail to resist change - or even if they cede some points, create new scams for the next time ?

Something's big has got to break the back of this monster - let's hope the image of the Perfect Storm works out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Scary is right! But here's some Sun Tzu for ya...
Edited on Sat Dec-04-04 08:02 PM by Patsy Stone
Who can really say what the state of our Democracy is? It's really scary to think that I have to wonder about that, but I do.

I've told you before what I thought. I really hope this all comes together. Here's a little Sun Tzu I posted earlier. I think it works here too:

"In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to capture an army entire than to destroy it..."

"With his forces intact he will dispute the mastery of the Empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph will be complete. This is the method of attacking by stratagem."

"Reduce the hostile chiefs by inflicting damage on them; make trouble for them, and keep them constanly engaged; hold out specious allurements,

"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt."

So, I think any of those could work here. There are so many more, but everyone should go read this if you already haven't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
114. the best move for Kerry
was to go ahead and conceed. I was shocked at how quickly he "gave up", but in hindsight it was the best thing to do. It would have soured the election even more if it had been dragged out for weeks while waiting on recounts. It will be soooo sweet if Ohio ends up going the other way. I'd die to see Bush have to backpedal and pack his bags for Texas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Absolutely right except the SoS
needs to be non-partisan. That is a major conflict of interest. I don't even care if they're partisan positions, really, except it is wrong to have anyone in charge of voting in a position of power in either camapaign. So, so wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
106. But if you do that, thousands of democratic election officials will
be dismissed also.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #106
115. No partisan election officials, period.
You have to take the good with the bad. There is no reason for that to occur. It is such an obvious conflict of interest, even if it is appearance only. We nee fair and accurate elections, period. Even if the Dems never win again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #115
146. In stark reality, 85+% of people are registered dems or repubs.
Edited on Mon Dec-06-04 07:32 PM by googly
It will be difficult to determine who is not partisan. Sounds ok in theory, but extremely impractical to enforce. All most all election officials in the huge Cook county, Illinois (chicago area) are democrats. I would be against replacing them all by persons of questionable backgrounds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #146
152. I think I'm going in circles...
Best case scenario: Most qualified person gets the job with no emphasis put on political party (like judges, district attornies, etc.).
Second most desired: Partisan position, no involvement in either candidate's re-election campaign organization.
Least desired: Partisan position with serious, high-level position in the campaign organization.

We've got number three now, and you can see where that's gotten you.
Let's pick one of the other two. Either one is preferable to the disaster we're experiencing. It's deva vu all over again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal43110 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
37. We Must Keep Talking...and Fighting
We must keep talking about the problems with this election and about improving our election system in general. It's not just about whether Kerry is inaugurated in January 2005. It's not just about whether Bush has to resign in disgrace a la Nixon. It's that free elections are the foundation of a democracy (refer to the current situation in Ukraine). We must take this shameful moment in American history and turn in into an opportunity to improve our election system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is NOT conspiracy theory
It is collusion. Time for a terminology shift to weaken the opposition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Hear, hear!
Collusion. Scheme. Agenda. Anything but "conspiracy theory," because it isn't a theory, anyway.

The plain truth is, there hasn't been an election in this country since God knows when, if ever, that we haven't had the plotters and the schemers and the defrauders in full force, trying to control events in their favor.

I believe each side yelled "conspiracy" at each other in the election of 1800, also. All of them, in retrospect, were correct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Enterprise
In order to fall under the scope of RICO, a suit must show:

that defendants formed an "association" for the purpose of committing an unlawful act -- an "enterprise";

that defendants committed "predicate acts" -- such as extortion, bribery, transporting drugs or stolen goods across state lines , mail and wire fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
46. Hm. Maybe that's why Arnebeck mentioned "conspiracy" twice
during his speech at the rally yesterday. His deliberate use of the word caught my attention immediately, but I couldn't figure out why he might say it. But perhaps RICO is the avenue he's going to take. Guess we'll find out more on Monday when they file.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. That would be really hot...
I hope that Mr. Arnebeck has dotted his i's and crossed his t's. That is a strange lawsuit. It has to be enough for one justice to set aside the results. Let's hope he knows what he's doing. Fingers crossed....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
74. RICO and the poll blockers? I mean challengers. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. That works for me.
I'm saying that the beginning impressions given by the MSM and the Evil Empire is one of conspiracy, which it turns out, is not a conspiracy after all but real, verifiable BS. That's all I'm sayin'.

I cant wait for collusion to come out. Believe you me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. Storm makes landfall only if and when we protest in the streets. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
111. hmmm we are...
check the news.and don't expect the NYT to cover it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Duncan Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great Post
It helped me feel optimistic. I've been going back and forth a lot. I KNOW that there are a lot of people who will not ever give up, the stench will get worse and worse until * is gone.
thanks for the words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's Surreal
How at the at the exact same time election fraud concerns in the U.S. are being routinely dismissed by almost everyone as tin-foil-hat Internet conspiracy theories, the MSM, and even the Bush admin are forced to talk about election fraud, overturned elections, and re-votes due to the exposed fraud in the Ukraine. That to me is very strange indeed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Twilight Zone City, Baby!
I started another thread a couple of days ago wondering if, in some weird way, the meeedjia was trying to say something like, "Psst, John. we don't like * either...See, we're covering *this* so, if you want to do domething, we won't crucify you." It's all so Matrix. Who knows? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cavanaghjam Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
102. But media DO like *.
Imagine yourself the news director making 3/4 of a mil per annum with most your savings in dividend paying blue chips. The guy's tax cuts gave you a 10% pay hike. You may think Shrub's an idiot, but his gifts make him quite popular among those who set the agenda for the venue from which most the masses get their info.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. Maybe, maybe not...and then
There's the pure entertainment factor of his malaprops and misadventures. He'd be envied by Norm Crosby himself! You gotta love covering those, too.

However, there are pleny of people making plenty of money who do not like *. Whether the corporate owners are using their power to benefit their own pockets, or not, is difficult to say.

I also believe that there are true journalists and writers out there that see the media consolidation and FCC regulations as restrictive on their First Ammendment rights. Remember too, during the election a lot of papers and reporters came down pretty heavily one way or the other. The gloves are off about who likes * and who does not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #102
120. It occured to me the other day. Votes are bought, one way or another. n/t
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueStateBlue Donating Member (470 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #102
157. Maybe I'm still naive enough to believe
that not everyone votes their pocketbook.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueStateBlue Donating Member (470 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
156. It occurred to me that maybe
the Ukranian election is getting so much press because some decent journalists, who may be working under a gag order for the US election, are trying to highlight the irony. I can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were in their shoes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Amen, Sister.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
41. You didn't say
"stupid-head" though! LOL!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
72. No, but I will say
send this to KEEF!

Really.

;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #72
83. Oh, I couldn't.
Another TFH moment: I'm not sure he isn't here reading DU himself. At the very least, some staffer or producer is here. I screwed up the courage to e-mail, and received a response. I said a bunch of things that I've said around here in it, and if they wanted to, they could probably surmise who I am. That wouldn't be a problem, except I've said some realllly "fan-girlish" things around here and I'd be soooo embarrased if anyone put two and two together.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #83
92. Okay, now don't be mad
but it's so concise and well-spoken that I took the liberty of sending it myself, without your screen-name attached, with this preface:


Keith:

My continued appreciation for your post-election coverage of the voting controversies.

As you know, many people have been working very hard at democraticunderground.com to gather data, analyze, brainstorm, and organize. The following is a very well-written snapshot of where many of us are right now, and I'd like to share it with you. It comes from a fellow DU member:

/your text here/

..and at the end I thanked him again.

Let me know if I overstepped here. I promise never to divulge your screen name, on pain of tin-foil wedgie.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. No, that's fine.
Thanks for that! I couldn't have brought myself to be that obvious.
p.s. You're smart and funny and I like reading your posts. -- I like you! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Phew.
And right back atcha.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClintCooper2003 Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good story. Let us pray.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Praise the lord, and pass the ammo.... :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krag Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Amen
Nice article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Great thread!
I am praying and trying to keep the faith; And, soooooo anticipating the storm...........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I, myself, live for the storm...
We did most of this, don't ever forget that. It us a stunning exercise of our power as citizens. Spectacular, if you think about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indigonation Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great Read. Thank you.
:bounce:

Now the opposition voice has been WAY too quiet... Methinks while they empty their gloating bellies they have yet to sense the dark clouds of the massive left-wing conspiracy looming just over the horizon to uproot the Shrubbery and weeds...

We will know them when they start screaming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. I wish I felt as positive as you do.
I wish I felt as positive as you do. Right after the election, I started looking at the numbers, hoping that somehow we could prove Kerry had won, and the nightmare would be over. Then I realized that proving extensive fraud would be the best way to get the process fixed, even if it didn't elect Kerry. My next hope was that proving fraud, and the lack of a "mandate" would so totally discredit * and his ilk, that they would not be able to do as much damage. Now, I think that it won't matter to them: they will just plow ahead with their fascist program. Today, with the evidence all over the place, and more coming to light every day, the MSM still won't pay attention. I have media blasted, called senators & congresspeople, etc, etc. Kerry could have gotten the Ohio recount started sooner, it he had joined the suit, but he didn't.

So, do you really believe that anyone will pay attention? Do you really think that we can arouse the TV-loving Americans to demand changes? Yes, some people are angry, but most people don't know shit. The rally in Columbus attracted, at most, a few thousand people, in a city where thousands were disenfranchised. I suppose that is the main cause of my pessimism tonight.

So, why do you feel the storm is a-comin'? I can barely hear the whisper of the breeze in the trees of the internet, and they want to shut that down too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Because WE did this.
We did it. You with your letters, some with their demonstrations, me with my money and letters, and hundreds or thousands of people crunching numbers.

There were no stories about anything going wrong after Nov. 2, and now, go Google Voter Fraud or Irregularities, or Ohio votes. There are plenty of stories in papers around the country picking up the AP wire. Newsweek did a story on Voting Machines. Juan Gonzalez at NY Daily News. CNN, MSNBC, C-SPAN, Bill Moyers and many, many others have picked this up.

That is no small feat. That is grass-roots, people in their pajamas and at their desks at work, finding sitautions that no one picked up on and calling them to people's attention. After all the bitching, for what it's worth, Kerry's name was mentioned with the word recount. Nice going.

There are congressional questions coming. We may get to find out about those exit polls and Warren County. This did not go "gentle into that good night." We did that.

There are lawsuits. There are recounts. There is still the possibility that something really stinks in Ohio, yet to be aired-out.

Go read the "Kerry's Real Strategy" thread and see if it gives you any hope. This is going to happen, whether now or soon in the future.

Don't lose hope. If not hope in Kerry, hope in what we accomplish here on a daily basis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
56. Thank you for your inspiring words, Patsy Stone!
...and for this great list of what we have accomplished in a short time with so many pulling together as one. We have only just begun to fight.

--------
The sleeping dragon is waking now
Soon all across the land
Flying monkeys to be flushed out of caves
Swords of light to pierce hearts of darkness

----------
***I made this up, with apologies to Nostradamus (who wouldn't care much about apologies, I don't think...?!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JWP Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
103. Righto!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueStateBlue Donating Member (470 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
150. Just look how far we've come!!
This is a terrific compendium of election fraud articles.

Please accept my apologies if this is already posted elsewhere.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_vote_fra...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Never underestimate the power of the people
The storm is coming. There is no doubt. We will bring the media along kicking and screaming if need be.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Is it really coming?
It is a joke this man is still in office, but he always gets his way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. The only time Junior gets his way is when weak people give in to him.
Those who believe he always gets his way LET him get his way. He won't be in office for long. Had it been publicly announced that John Kerry won on Nov. 2nd, Junior would be where he is right now, anyway. The next POTUS isn't sworn in until Jan. 20th. Nothing is happening now that wouldn't be happening, regardless. If anything, damage is being prevented by holding back on flipping the election results for as long as possible. Think Junior wouldn't create a new international crisis (or two or more) if he knew he was going to be unemployed come 1/20/05? Think again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Gold Star for being right on here! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. I quote again from The Art of War
"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
44. I've been well-acquainted with Sun Tzu for years
And recognized his strategies put into action since Nov. 3rd. Some of the most appropriate quotes for these times (besides the ones you have posted), IMO, include:


Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.

O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy's fate in our hands.

Disciplined and calm, to await the appearance of disorder and hubbub amongst the enemy - this is the art of retaining self-possession.

Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
75. This is fun!
We could go on for days, but we're going to bore people. Here's one I particulary enjoy:

"The onrush of a conquering force is like the bursting of pent-up waters into a chasm a thousand fathoms deep."

Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
52. If it is indeed "coming"
it better be sooner rather than later. bu$hCo, Inc. isn't wasting any time in promoting the rest of their very evil agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. They can promote it all they want
If they aren't in office post-inauguration, their agenda is moot. But by our holding off and making it later rather than sooner, their agenda is simply that: plans without action. It's the action we should fear and action is definitely what we would have should they become convinced they were leaving office on Jan. 20th. Think Iran or Syria or North Korea.

Later is better. The closer to the inauguration date, the better, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. You and Patsy may be right. IF the BFEE is as corrupt and evil as we think
and IF John Kerry is as intelligent and courageous as we think, THEN he knows what he is up against and this WOULD BE his course.

Being fully aware of what has been happening in the last four years has been brutal, still a little afraid to hope.
I am having to learn patience and faith, and it's a tough row to hoe.

I am praying you are right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
49. Hmmmmmm.......I read that it was a crowd of 400
but am having trouble finding where - NY Times or maybe at MSNBC. I thought it was a dismal sign, considering how heated this issue is for many of us. Guess it was the MSM at it again.....damn!!!

Seems to me two things are becoming critical. One, we have got to start making an appearance that cannot be ignored. Peaceful - but present. En masse. There is no way we can just continue to sit behind our computers and send messages hoping that anyone else will notice.

The other critical matter is the failure of the MSM to cover this issue. They really think that if they are quiet we will all go away. So it's important that we DON'T! Don't fade away...make a ruckus, keep mailing, emailing, calling and organizing --- and making our presence known. Let the world know (visibly, in the real world too) that we are determined to see fair elections in this democracy (I know it's not so democratic right now, more like demo-fascist ).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall
Oh, what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what'll you do now, my darling young one?
I'm a-goin' back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin',
I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest,
Where the people are many and their hands are all empty,
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters,
Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison,
Where the executioner's face is always well hidden,
Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten,
Where black is the color, where none is the number,
And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it,
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,
Then I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin',
But I'll know my song well before I start singin',
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Cause Something Is Happening Here, and You Don't Know What It Is
Do You, Mr Jones ?

BALLAD OF A THIN MAN
Dylan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
99. Thank you...
for those well-remembered, beloved words. I was thinking of that verse from "Hard Rain" a couple of days ago, and now I'm going to e-mail those lines to my daughter to give her hope.

--Linda
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #99
108. You're welcome! That song...
Early on Nov. 3, when I was at my worst, someone posted those lyrics on an open thread at Daily Kos, and they spoke so sharply and clearly to me, and focused my sadness into a kind of angry defiance. As Dylan can so often do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
112. Revolution, I know exactly what you mean about Dylan!
BTW, my son's name is Dylan. I named him after both Bob Dylan and his namesake, Dylan Thomas. Here's a classic by another Celtic poet, W.B. Yeats, which I just posted on another forum where I am a regular. I seem to get the urge to post it every few years, and it's been bouncing around in my head again for the past week or so--for obvious reasons.

--Linda

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

William Butler Yeats
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. A brilliant post deserves but one question: "Did Bush Know?"
Thanks Patsy Stone, for all your charm, intelligence and commitment.

George W Bush will not be the 44th President of the United States.

Peace.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I don't think so...but then again, who the hell can say...
I think he may have been told that "it'll all work out," but I'm not sure that he was complicit. I can't say he's above being complicit, but I think Turd Blossom would have kept him as far away from the action so we never had to go through another "what did the President know and when did he know it?" moment. But, maybe I'm delusional.

Sometimes, I think he did know. He hasn't looked too calm and collected recently. He's been worried about something. There's a look in his eyes that says "scared."

Watch and wait my friend, that's all we got...and go light a candle. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Agree with the 'look in his eye'....
....since that photo of him on the couch, 2 Nov 2004. And, the true display of delusional fantasy as if they hadn't noticed that by Senator Kerry 'conceding' the media fiasco that they had anticipated as 'cover' for their fast-forward to theocratic totalitarianism, evaporated. We've had full-on Bush, 24x7, and folk who might have admitted on 3 Nov 2004 that they voted for him may be increasingly diminishing.

And, along with lighting that candle every night, I'm just encouraging everyone to ask everyone, all the time, "Did Bush Know?"

And, can't wait until folk start shouting that question at Bush, Rove, Condi, et al., and writing it on billboards, and in newspaper ads, and.....well, everywhere.

Peace.

"So, George, that's some miracle!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Weird look
I think he's looked rather "Nixonian" lately. Sometimes he kind of hunches down into his shoulders the way Nixon used to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. It's creepier than Nixon.
Like that's possible. But it's fidgiting, and little nervous chuckles.
Creepy. Like he's gonna get caught.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Like he knows he's been caught and he has....
....by us ;-)

Those dang internets; those dang exit polls; those dang folk who actually care about each other having to stand in line for hours to vote; those dang, dang, .....mommy, mommy......

And, I never thought, after living through the Nixon thing front row center, that I'd see anything more disgusting or stupid, but, wow this is it, big time.

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
82. Bush fucked over a fellow Bonesman.

He knows what's on the way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. I must look further into that.
I have no idea what that whole thiung is all about other than the usual knowledge of the club's existence and it's secrecy. That should be some fun reading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Patsy! Check it out! It's all about Skull+Bones at this point!

Great thread!
Thank You for starting It!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. I will.
Thanks for the encouragement. Real James Bond stuff, this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #82
118. Very good point n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueStateBlue Donating Member (470 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
151. He's got that Beevis laugh going on. Too creepy! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. ROFLMAO...
So true!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueStateBlue Donating Member (470 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #153
154. I mean,
come on, he's supposed to be the leader of the free world, for God's sake!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. That video
came as a shock to Peter Jennings apparently. I wish I could find the link, but it was released in the middle of everything and that had never been done before. And, let's never forget Jenna's green shoes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. That Jenna; now that is a topic many graduate students....
...will have so very much fun analyzing ;-)

Peace.

"Did Jenna Know?" LOL; LOL; LOL........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. what video? missed it. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
69. It was a creepy Stepford Wivey shot
of the whole evil clan sitting in the residence, looking self-satisfied; with Smirky smirking. The weird thing was it was released to the media at like 8 or 9 pm (?). That had never been done. It was almost like...they knew. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
48. The Green Shoe Was The Signal To The Sleeper Cells To Start The Fix
Jenna was bouncing her leg up and down like a four year old and she was LAUGHING. MonkeyNuts was laughing. This "press conference" where nothing was said and was totally unprecedented was used to signal the fix and it also served as a distraction from the exit poll numbers which started looking strange shorty after this media circus ended.

That is my story and I'm sticking to it! They had their fucking blue stained dress we are going to bring them down with Operation Green Shoe!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaCrat Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. It was a taped video that was delivered to the networks,
I don't believe it was a press attended "press conference". Which makes the networks even more criminally complicit in their ignorance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. That Makes It Even More Likely That It Contained The Signal
Exactly the networks are in this thing up to their eyeballs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
70. Even Barney knew...
Hubby called me in from the other room to point out those shoes!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #48
73. I think you're right.
My own theory is Turd Blossom sent the spreadsheet he had via modem to Warren County (adjusting tin foil hat). I never, ever liked this story from the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3987237.stm

<snip>
Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them.
<end snip>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Those Two Sentences Just SCREAM "I STOLE IT HAHAHAHA"
I want to punch Rove in the face every time I read them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. He a WHOLE other level of evil...
The kind we need The Force to extinguish. It's stunning how he is allowed to continue plans for his bloodless coup by the people and the media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sideways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #81
94. He Reminds Me Of My Fundie EX Who Stole My Children
And trashed me then moved to Texas. EX had all the money and the fundie church behind him. It was 1990 and my life was just wrecked. They are like peas in a pod. Evil evil evil twisted shit dust bags. I almost died of a broken heart but I didn't because I was just so fucking pissed.

Fundie EX still a rich fuck but living a miserable life. Karl will find himself there soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. That sounds really gross
I'm so sorry that happened to you. It semmes that you had enough strength to come through it. Never lose that fight. We're gonna need all of our might. Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #48
109. You know....
This one has a certain feel to it. Somehow I can just see 30 years from now, the "green shoe" being the defining item to the whole scandal. Sometimes the intuitive answer, no matter how unlikely it seems, is the better guess than can be produced by all of the logic and reasoning and number crunching and theorizing.

The green shoe election theft.

What else do you know about this? The green shoes didn't match the outfit, but perhaps her fashion sense is always that bad. The airing of the video on election night is unusual. The fact that it was a video rather than live is noteworthy. The timing is interesting. I wonder if any observer anywhere saw any elections officials make an odd, and brief trip to the TV set during the evening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #109
132. Probably
drunk or stoned and thought the shoes "went," or Barbara convinced her to wear them, knowing it would be the signal... :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #132
140. hi
Since I replied to this I have read some of your other posts, so when I came back I thought oh! I know this member. Patsy Stone.

Nice to meet you.

Mike
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #140
141. You too!
Thanks...anyone that noticed those shoes can hang out with me...
My motto is: "If you can't say something nice, come sit next to me!"

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. rofl
"If you can't say something nice, come sit next to me!"

I don't believe I care to belong to a club that would accept people like me as members.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #143
145. Ahhh. Groucho/Woody... n/t :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
47. Did Bush know?
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 10:49 AM by IndyOp
Bush knows about the vote fraud like the members of a dysfunctional family know about an addict's behavior. A fav quote of mine from a young woman overcoming bulimia: " knew and I knew they knew - but we just kind of all agreed not to talk about it."

The Bush family is FULL of addicts, liars and secret-keepers. Bush is an expert at 'not knowing' a whole lot of truths that he knows.

I bet Bush will start out by saying that he did not know about the vote fraud. But look at the Peter King video again, the one on the White House lawn. Bush has just shaken someone's hand and is within earshot when King says (paraphrasing): "The election's over. It's all over but the counting and we'll take care of the counting."

<http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/iMovieTheater256.... >

Bush knows.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Of course he knows
He knew all along that he would "win" this "election" and he knew how he would "win", just like he knows that he will rule us for at least the next four years. :argh:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
77. Well, technically you're right
because the 44th president won't be "elected" until 2008...Bush Sr. was 41, Clinton (2 terms) was 42, and * is "43". I hold hope for the Perfect Storm, but have a hard time believing the Kerry campaign, with it's post-election day back biting, and the DNC with the disorganization that comes from diversity, actually have a "plan".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Her Blondness Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. The Sin of Hubris
WOW. Thank you for that awesome post.

It is always true that "Pride goeth before a fall."

His arrogance alone has set the stage for his destruction. You are so right, the storm is coming.

I think it will be spectacular.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
42. Great thread! In the back of my mind every time * did his dirty deeds,
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 02:31 AM by Lil
I felt an "ah ha - 1 more nail in his coffin."

Kerry KNEW * would react this way.

So he waited.

This is very well said. Bravo and Thanks.

All of a sudden, POTUS is cracking wise about "spending political capital" while delivering the smackdown on the press at a rare press conference.

Look! Up in the Sky! He's changing Social Security! Hey what's that over there? He's attacking Fallujah! Oh, no, now he's appointing cabinet members! And, over here in the corner, he's getting the big thumbs up from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
43. Writing so nice,
I was compelled to read it twice.

Good job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
65. Aw, shucks..
you made me blush! TY.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spirit of old Europe Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
51. great read!
Let me say I admire your thoughtful analysis.
May the storm blow the dust away from all vicious and fraudulent activities and tricks to lay it bare to the world's eyes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. It is the perfect time to disseminate the message to the masses
Guerilla marketing uses unconventional means of distributing a message.

Viral marketing describes any strategy that encourages individuals to pass on a marketing message to others, creating the potential for exponential growth in the message's exposure and influence. Viral marketing often comes about because of "buzz".

Before the election I was using guerilla marketing in my GOTV street canvassing. Some DUers did join me but it was not nearly enough to create media buzz. People of course were phone banking, canvassing and writing LTTES, all of which were very important before the election. Now that we have time on our hands and an army of hopefully willing participants, IMHO a brilliant way to take the next step and get the word out to those who do not frequent lefty web sites is:

What we can do right now is use poor man's advertising and free delivery systems, ie. DUers to spread the immediate message, that the election was fraudulent.

Right NOW we at DU CAN just like the mean girls in highschool start a whisper campaign against the chimp's reputation. How you ask? By using guerilla and viral marketing techniques.
Do this:

download the file below and got to Kinkos and make copies.

BUSH CHEATED is color but can be printed and
photocopied B&W to save $$$. They print 2 to a sheet, so you will have to cut them.



download this and other files here:

http://somnamblst.tripod.com /

Use the BUSH CHEATED to flyer cars or even BETTER...

Buy a can of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive from staples and glue the BUSH CHEATED graphic to metal utility poles, bus stop shelters, advertising benchs, newspaper racks etc. let your inner anarchist express itself. If enough people do this then the masses will become aware AND just like highschool Bush's reputation will be ruined.


This is something we can do RIGHT NOW. No dreaming just ACTION. I've started. I challenge everyone on DU to commit to disseminating at least 10 per day.

I had hoped to plaster Columbus at the rally yesterday with both BUSH CHEATED & Blackwell RECUSE, but the wind was so bad it would have been impossible. I did however do some bus stop shelters and utility poles near campus yesterday in Cincinnati and none of my handiwork has been peeled off.

see also:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
84. Love the Blackwell ad, rosebud!
I was going to contact you to see if you were still going to be in business making these.

As long as you keep making them, I will keep posting them around my corner of Ohio as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UL_Approved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
97. Have you ever read "Why We Can't Wait"?
This is a book by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He discusses the use of non-violent protest and how to be effective at changing any social structure. This should be required reading for anyone at DU. It is a VERY clear and detailed account and lesson in non-violent resistance. It is also written around a minority of people effecting the change.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Massachusetts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
57. I will keep beating the drum
No Taxation Without Representation. It is happening here and NOW.
Our ammunition is our wallet. :grr: :grr: :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Are you in DC, Mass?
I love that license plate. I hope DC gets some representation in Congress. Any place that voted against * 90 to 9 is a place I'd like to see fully represented! :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
59. THANK YOU PATSY!!!!
FROM CLEARWATER ...yes we all feel the same here in Fla...we are mad as hell and not taking it anymore...although on Nov 3rd i was ready to throw the towel in ( and a bit of a hangover from victory party which ended up a crying party) but by the end of the day Nov 3rd..i said to self..what the hell are you thinking...we had our votes stolen once again..and i am going to find out how, and why and i am going to do something about it!! If it takes everything i have i will single handly take jeb down...he is responsible for stealing my votes! Congress stole my vote, by allowing these machines. I did not work my rear end off in this campaign to sit here quietly and allow this again...and of course..i have my 9/11 coworker angels to think of....they need a voice and they need the truth..if it takes till my last dying breath...

so thank you Patsy...I've got your back on the "other " coast of fla!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Thanks, fly!
Let's get Jeebie out of Tallahassee while we're at it too, huh?
I love that Leon County went bright, bright blue...They don't like him much in that capital, huh? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaCrat Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thank you for the wonderful post
Patsy,

I appreciate your words and I too, am hoping for the light of day to happen sooner and more dramatically than the trend we've been on for the last years. I too live in South Florida and watched with horror, what happened in 2000. That the voter disenfranchisement crimes went unpunished is appalling to me. The big hope and belief that makes me able to function is that crimes are what prosecutors thrive on. Yes, Mr. K and Mr. E. are the best people to be in this place and time.

And for the rest of the masses, it sure is a good thing that we have the Internet. This is where I go to find people who are like me and can't stand the lack of answers in every other aspect of our lives. Randi Rhodes has been my sanity blanket, listening to her for the first time when the Clinton witch hunt was on every other source of media. A few days after the election, I spoke to her the day a "software problem" allowed the gambling amendment to pass in Broward. Something ... connected to the levels of software in the machines and the fact that 32,000 votes were decremented and this all showed up when the absentee ballots were being totaled. We BOTH knew that there was a huge problem and this one was going to be hard to find because seemingly, all the cards are stacked against us. But the internet makes the best use of the brightest minds. Every day, I am reaffirmed by this mighty tool we have to create synergy through great distance, in the absence of a MSM to connect. This fact alone, makes me feel hopeful and proud.

The Ukrainians are lucky in some respects - their only path to finding justice was to go to the streets, together. And their justice is coming much quicker. But, like you, I feel it too. It's close.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Viva, Miami!
I'm still trying to figure out how Castor beat Kerry statewide. That alone is enough to make me think this smells, especially since Martinez received a lot less votes than *.

It's amazing that they "found" those votes, isn't it?

As for Ukraine, while I certainly would have taken to the streets, I find it very "American" that we're doin' all of this digitally. Sooo, 21st Century!

Tu quiere Cafecito? :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaCrat Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
86. Si, Viva Miami !
I live in Broward and get to Miami often.

That means Martinez got more votes than Kerry? And what exactly did Martinez do in his life to earn that? It all defies reason.

I'd love a Cafecito, thank you. but don't speak Spanish. One of my goals for 2005, though, is to learn some. 8-)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. I'm too lazy
to find the links, but at the last time I checked, Miami-Dade and the Hood's site weren't matching. When last I looked, Martinez actually beat Bush in Miami, they may have "corrected" that. It was the only county where that happened, yet Castor beat Kerry in the majority of counties (like 50+) and by a 6657 margin statewide. Martinez lost to * by like 200K+ votes statewide. I think it may be the third party voters that voted for Castor, so I can't say somethings really wrong, but the whole thing, with Jebbie-kins and Glenda the Wicked Witch of the South at the wheel, who the hell knows. And, really, isn't that the true problem? Where did my vote go?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
68. All I want to add is "Shame on the Democratic Party."
I'm a Dem, and will probably be one 'til my dying breath. But I will NEVER forgive the leadership of our party telling us that we have to re-think our positions on issues, because they don't reflect "the will of the people."

There's just something from the leadership that smells suspiciously fowl. They could have said, "we believe in the values of the Democratic party, and still stand by them."

I am personally disappointed in Bill Clinton. Just knowing that he suggested to Kerry to give up on the gay marriage issue was a sellout which I am having trouble reconciling with. And I have become disappointed with Hillary as well, and would not enthusiastically support her. Their message seems to be "say whatever you have to, in order to get elected." That's just fundamentally WRONG.

I believe in my heart that Kerry won the election. If the Dems want to continue to have my support, they had damned well better get involved in this past election, and get some real answers about what happened. It ain't the message, or the messenger.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. And I believe that who is NOT talking
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 03:08 PM by Patsy Stone
is much more interesting than who is.

Al Franken; also the DNC, Howard Dean, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson (ok, finally), John & Teresa Kerry, the Congressional Black Caucus, Jerry Springer and John & Elizabeth Edwards (get well soon!).

I mean really...Where the hell IS Al Sharpton???

Either something's going down, or people are all of a sudden like really stupid and can't see things they've noticed and fought for their entire lives.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaCrat Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #76
119. A couple of theories on why those people aren't talking
One: There has been a threat by the repugs of something horrific and large scale will happen if people keep talking and don't "move on" (kind of ironic that they are using the Move On phrase - was coined dung the Clinton witch hunt) like dropping a N on Iran or North Korea. I have 2 nephews in different branches of service - I won't say here where they are, but rocket science it ain't to figure out where 2 of three of the axes of evil are.

Two: There were some high level crats involved in support of certain election outcomes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #68
107. Rev you hit the nail on the head. I am so with you on this.
"I believe in my heart that Kerry won the election. If the Dems want to continue to have my support, they had damned well better get involved in this past election, and get some real answers about what happened. It ain't the message, or the messenger." RevCheesehead

I like the rest of what you said too but this last paragraph sums it up for me too, 100%! They will not get another thing from me unless they get on board. I will not donate to them anymore. I will not volunteer. Nothing! Nada! We did NOT lose because of our message, or because we accept gay people, or because we need to change our image, or because we didn't talk about religion enough, or because we didn't flaunt morality, none of that mattered. Nothing will matter in any election from now on if they don't wake up and smell the election fraud. I don't want to hear about who to run in 2006 or 2008. I don't care. If the fraud is not addressed it won't matter. If they don't get on board, I will go green for the first time in my voting life! And I'll take as many folks as I can with me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
llpoperations Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #107
144. Why go Green?
The Internet has provided the grassroots with a "virtual veto" over any DNC Chairman. We don't need party officials to represent us at State or National levels. We can now do this directly, ourselves.

The Democratic crowd in DC is too cozy with the lobbyists and the "Beltway Braintrusts". They have proven themselves total losers. We must get rid of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaCrat Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #68
123. Rev, Thanks - the Clintons both have it wrong. Liberal is good

I think Clinton has it all wrong about the middle of the road being where the dems should go - it almost looks as if he believes the results of the voting to be the will of the people. Forget that bs about a moral divide - most people want the same things.

I was disappointed in Mr. Kerry taking direction in his campaign from the Clintons and McAuliffe. It was a big mistake - the dem majority in Congress was lost during Clintons second term. Democratic values are to stand up to hatred and bias and call it out every time it rears its ugly head. I hope Mr. Kerry will find his inner strength and voice is the one he should listen to - and don't be afraid to be called "Liberal". It's a badge of honor, not to be afraid of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #123
126. Imagine what would have happened if we became more centrist..
...and STILL lost the vote?

Or if Howard Dean had won the nomination, and then lost the vote?

Everyone would be wringing their hands, asking "why can't we nominate someone who can actually defeat the republicans?" I remember hearing a lot of people during the primaries say that Kerry was the one who had the best chance of all to defeat Bush.

So, now we again question our message?

What will it take the Dems to seriously LOOK and EXAMINE the allegations of FRAUD??? Will they await permission from the MSM?

IMHO, Al Gore was not "Gored." But the Democratic Party most certainly has been "Demmed." I want, no, I DEMAND new leadership!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
71. A perfect storm indeed!
I loved the Sun Tzu quotes from you and Txindy. Time to go back and read that again.

I've been thinking that if Kerry and the Dems didn't know that BBV fraud was coming AND prepare for it, then they're incompetent to govern anyway. But if they did prepare for it, say by planting or cultivating whistleblowers in Diebold and the others and then passing along info to carefully chosen honest FBI agents, prosecutors, and Canadian Mounties (Diebold has an office in Vancouver), that could lead to interesting wire taps, Internet taps, and such.

I just wish I knew now which way the storm would blow. The longer it goes on, the bigger the splash it's going to take for the good guys to win. I just don't see recounts going anywhere at this point; they've delayed initial counts and certification long enough that there isn't time to do real recounts. I'm thinking now that either it's going to be big-time arrests, indictments, Diebold offices impounded, precincts put under law enforcement lockdown, etc. or else the Holy Theocratic Fourth Reich is now in effect. But we'll know soon, I guess.

One possibility is that they're waiting for Blackwell and Hood to certify results that they know to be false, in order to close the loop on a conspiracy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. Kathy B. certifies on Monday.
I thought I heard that the recount would beging after certification (SOP), and be completed by 12/13.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6620799 /

KO/Kathy B.

BLACKWELL: "We had indicated that Ohio law allows for a recount once the vote has been certified. So, the recount is already a determination."

BLACKWELL: No, we havent. Weve told the two officials candidates that havethe candidates that have asked for a recount that, once we certify on December 6, they have five days to certify, I mean, to ask for a recount.

Once they ask for a recount, we will provide them with a recount. And thats what Ive said from the very first indication that they were interested in a recount. Once it was established that they were statewide candidates withstanding, our law says that they can ask for a recount. We will regard this as yet another audit of the voting process.

----

The lawsuit the Glibs filed was to start the recount BEFORE the final count was certified. This was turned down by the judge because they could prove no damages. In reality, if Kerry had joined that lawsuit, the recount would have been assesed with regards to immediacy because K/E did have a chance.

K/E did not join that suit, but if I remember correctly, there was something on the Ohiodems.org site about a lawsuit they were participating in. That may be a different one, and more about being a part of the overall recount, but not truly a party to it yet.

Regardless, if the recount proceeds, before or after 12/13, and there really is a change to K/E, the electors from that state can change their votes or, as we all saw in the opening of F9/11, all it takes is one Rep. and one Sen. to stop Ohio's votes from counting on Jan. 6 when Darth Cheney opens the envelopes.

The point of the recount, at this point, is to audit the votes against the tallies from the (possibly hacked) machines. In reality, until you do this, you have no idea what the real count in Ohio is. The, btw, you get to examine those 93K spoiled ballots. This is gonna be fun.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. Time for recounts
I probably wasn't clear about what I meant by not enough time for real recounts. What I meant was that they'll dilly-dally around, count four votes today and three tomorrow and gee, this recount thing is gonna take a long, long time, even longer than the first count; it's just not possible...

Also I thought Ohio law had a very close deadline, before Dec. 13, something like the 8th. I read somewhere that if Blackwell certified on Monday there would be only about 24 hours to do a recount. But I'm uncertain and unclear about that.

I don't think electors can change their votes after they cast them on 12/13, and they wouldn't anyhow because they're all political hacks. Congress could refuse to count them as cast, but the only way the Pug Congress would do that was if there were millions of people in the streets outside Capital Hill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Yes. they can.
It's rarely done on a large scale, but it does happen and there is no law to prevent it. Electors are not legally bound to vote for their candidate. In fact, in 2000 one of the DC Electors withheld the vote to protest "Taxation without Representation." Go, check it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. Also...
"The onrush of a conquering force is like the bursting of pent-up waters into a chasm a thousand fathoms deep."

I never know how people read these threads, so I apologize if you already read this where I posted it above. :)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bama ben Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
96. "The Perfect Storm?"
I hope John Kerry is flying underneath the radar and really plans to fight this when it gets to rolling.

Living in Alabama I get no support when I want to see the election over turned, but there is still a lot of us die hard Democrats in the heart of Dixie.

It would be a prayer answered if Ohio could be given to Kerry/Edwards, I think Kerry won Ohio and Florida.

Alabamas Governors race was won by Bob Riley on a computer in Escambia county, and I still think something funny was going un, and it was getting ready for the Presidental election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
clancydog Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
98. Orange ribbons
Nicely stated. I'll be wearing an orange ribbon, most likely for the next four years, in support of legitimate elections like the Ukranians want.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. Legitimate Elections
are the foundation of faith in government. The sooner people realize this, the better off we'll all be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
105. Re: Kerry's Real Strategy
Hi - I'm relatively new here and although I've seen a couple of people refer to this discussion, I can't seem to find it. Can anyone help?

I love your post, and agree with just about everything you said - this is NOT going to go away, things are brewing, and the silence is way too deafening - I just hope it's more powerful than the aliens who have taken over our country.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #105
117. Here...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
110. is this your 'Perfect Storm"???
"Shame on Congress, Shame on people, Shame on the media and.. now we watch and wait"

Please.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #110
116. No, the whole situation...
What has happened since 11/2. Haven't you done anything towards this cause? If you have, thank you. That's all I'm saying. It's the Perfect Storm because we all thought JK would win, he didn't and we all tried to figure out why. In the meantime, while the media wasn't paying attention, we made them pay attention. There's a lot more going on now than on Nov. 3, and we did that. We the People. Fighting for our right to be heard. Letting people know, we do not plan to sit and watch anymore while those on the Hill obfuscate and stall efforts towards voting reform.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #116
121. your intentions are honorable
but totally worthless. 'We The People' have accomplished nothing, Bush will start his 2nd term on Jan 20.

Ukrainians however have accomplished a lot. Americans were too busy worrying about their portfolios and the Laci Peterson trial.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. You go with that.
I'll be over here...proud of what we have accomplished.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. which is??
I'd love to hear these 'accomplishments'.

In the last 4 years, Americans allowed the most criminally fascist government in its history to succeed in 3 elections in a row. And it's getting much worse before it gets better. There have been no accomplishments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. MSM picks it up and looks at
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/06/democrats.ohi...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240 /

Dems requesting info from Blackwell and exit poll data from Mitofsky.

Who did that, that's my point. What we were powerless to affect in 2000, we are affecting now.

I'm sorry you feel no hope, I wish you would at least get up and fight instead of wringing your hands. Pity parties help no one. And, one tends to eat a lot of ice cream at them. :)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. show me the money
it's useless to fight when the leader of the party flees.

but this is, like you say, different from 2000. At least in 2000 we had a fighter, Al Gore. He lost to the criminals, but at least he tried.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. I'm done.
You be bitter, I'll be happy. Go read Sun Tzu. Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. I'm not bitter
realistic is the word. If living in a fantasy Sun Tzu world, makes you 'happy', go ahead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. Yet, you're still here in America?
With the anger you feel towards that cabal, I would have thought you would have left by now...Perhaps this is the year?

I won't waste anymore of your time trying to cheer you up, you seem to enjoy your miserable state of mind. I hope one day, you find peace somewhere.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
122. I see massive storm clouds rolling in...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
125. Give Patsy credit: She Sensed the Breaking of the Storm
Looks like the prophecy of the "Perfect Storm" may be upon us - this week may be one to remember. By sensing the arriving storm, this discussion focus helps us actually become part of the tsunami, adding our energy to it, in not only a metaphysical sense, but a physical sense as well.

Must be woman's intuition - I can't resist a joke here:

What passes for woman's intuition is often nothing more than man's transparency..........George Jean Nathan

Let's keep focused, and also laughing, all the way to victory.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #125
148. This may be the week that was.
Wow, I'm just kvelling from the superb things everyone has done to further the cause.

Shalom, I've enjoyed our conversations here. Anyone who can give me Sorkin and Dickens in reponse to posts, is someone I'll definitely enjoy typing for. Thanks for the props. It really was everyone, working together, towards a greater good that did it.

I'm going to scam something from and inspirational thread on kos. Think "Finding Nemo" when the fish were caught in the net. They worked together and mad it out. So, to all my compatriots here:

SWIM DOWN!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Amy6627 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
127. Lawsuit
Has anyone heard anything about Cliff Arnebeck, Counsel in Lawsuit Challenging Presidential Election in Ohio? Has the lawsuit been filed? What happening with this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
129. Hurricane currently sweeping from FL to DC....
Brad Blog: whistleblower affidavit

Programmer Built Vote Rigging Prototype at Republican Congressman's Request

CLAIM: Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL) Asked Company to Create E-Vote Fraud Software

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001024.htm

http://www.rawstory.com/images/pdfs/CC_Affidavit_120604...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geraldatwork Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #129
142. Planning Florida Fraud-Sworn Statememt
Saw this on the Randi Rhodes discussion.
http://rawstory.com/images/pdfs/CC_Affidavit_120604.pdf
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
130. Hurricane currently sweeping from FL to DC....

Brad Blog: whistle blower affidavit

Programmer Built Vote Rigging Prototype at Republican Congressman's Request

CLAIM: Rep. Tom Feeney (R-FL) Asked Company to Create E-Vote Fraud Software

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001024.htm

http://www.rawstory.com/images/pdfs/CC_Affidavit_120604 ...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Peace.

"Did Bush Know?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
passy Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
133. Let the hurricane wreck havoc!
Because the problem is not only past presidential elections. It's the fact that the same method has been used for quite a while to fill the senate and congress with republicans; that the media from TV to the written press is totally useless at reporting anything without government spin and that people are totally inept at deciphering *'s and his cronies' agenda.
I mean, * is raping the country in the worst conceivable way and what do people do? They write lovely little analysis of the dire situation they are in on the internet.
Isn't it time to get people onto the streets, to disrupt live television shows, to get artists who have unlimited access to the media to pull stunts and shout out loud about fraud (some of these worked hard to get the vote out, they will surely be willing to take further, where the f**k is Michael Moore? get the Boss to speak out for god's sake), do leaflet drops in areas where the vote was distorted or stolen, (some areas of Florida would a good place to start, as far as the message is concerned the evidence is already there: "Exit Polls". They work for Ukrainians they work for us.) do anything to get the message out.
What are you embarrassed? Do you think it's embarrassing to say it out LOUD. The election was fixed and it wasn't the first time.
So stop talking about it online, go to your local printers, print out flyers outlining the evidence, (exit polls how they are supported by US organizations overseas with great success to make sure fair elections are carried out, use a few quotes from the repubs who are for exit polls in places like the Ukraine. Highlight the discrepancies on election night) and hand them out wherever you can.
And don't worry the majority of Americans voted for the good guy they will hear or read what you have to say. Nobody likes to be cheated and if 60 million people did that's a good start for a revolution.
Because once you have gotten rid of *, disband congress and the senate, purge the press of money-interests especially that smug ozzie Murdoch, get the UN,NATO and all the other world organizations into Iraq, (send a million or more blue berets and will see if things settle down) and start from scratch.
And remember the revolution will not be televised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharifromOregon Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
135. Do you all remember when Elizabeth Edwards posted at DU?
I think it was November 5th. She put in this most amazing quote, which bears repeating:

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake." -Thomas Jefferson, 1798

---------------
The Perfect Storm Indeed....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #135
137. Amen and Get Well soon, EE! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueTarheel Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
147. speaking of storms
The Gathering Storm:

http://www.opednews.com/roland_120504_storm.htm

snip

There is a storm gathering inthis country.
Fueled by the internet tradewinds it is slowly building momentum .


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #147
149. Oh yeah, here it comes. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maguzzi Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
155. Kerry's Dreamin
if he thinks he can get another ride in 08 after this performance
he put together, hiding under shells while his party stood, flummoxed
by the RNC attack pack. No way. I couldnt believe he was nomitated
anyway. Everyone gets what they deserve for voting for him in primary because he is a vet cmon. No way. Wont even make a stand
about evotes with is giga pack of lawyers. cmon rick. shame on him
letting hannity and the chicken hawks call him a wimp. money got to
his head.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2019, 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC