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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:30 AM
Original message
Poll: Half of Israeli high schoolers oppose equal rights for Arabs
Nearly half of Israel's high school students do not believe that Israeli-Arabs are entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel, according to the results of a new survey released yesterday. The same poll revealed that more than half the students would deny Arabs the right to be elected to the Knesset.

The survey, which was administered to teenagers at various Israeli high schools, also found that close to half of all respondents - 48 percent - said that they would refuse orders to evacuate outposts and settlements in the Palestinian territories.

Nearly one-third - 31 percent - said they would refuse military service beyond the Green Line.

The complete results of the poll will be presented today during an academic discussion hosted jointly by Tel Aviv University's School of Education and the Citizens' Empowerment Center in Israel. The symposium will focus on various aspects of civic education in the country.

"Jewish youth have not internalized basic democratic values," said Prof. Daniel Bar-Tal, one of the conference organizers.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155627.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kayecy Donating Member (931 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's not what Pelsar says (unless he has changed his mind)....
Assuming that most of these kids parents think the same way, where does that leave the US?....Giving massive financial and political support to a state whose idea of equality is back in the dark ages....
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. ALL Arab youth? They have NOTHING more democratic?
That's just like saying that all Israelis want to exterminate the Arabs, etc.



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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. In case you haven't notice, one side holds all the power here.
The kids of one side will be making the policy soon.

This isn't a game of equals hating each other equally and causing equal havoc on each other's lives.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Because, of course, all Arabs are suicide bombers.
You should be ashamed of yourself. I'm going to guess your response will be to defend your remark rather than to apologise, though?
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. As the mom of Palestinian kids, I'll tell you what I find most disturbing about Aquart's POV
It's not the notion that some Palestinian kids experience despair and desperation enough to strap on a suicide vest. There are some Palestinian kids who feel that, though I'm sure not in the droves that inhabit Aquart's mind.

It's the constant promotion of Israel and Israelis as the "civilized" party in this conflict... the practitioners of democracy and human rights... the "good guys"... let's face it: the superior party with whom we should align ourselves.

When evidence to the contrary to that propaganda is presented, s/he retreats back to "well, look at the arabs."

Aquart and his Zionist cohorts can't have it both ways. They can't claim the moral high ground, and then leave it whenever it's convenient.

Israel has positioned itself on the moral highground, as the only shining democracy in the Middle East. When it's revealed that a huge percentage of their youth hold horribly racist attitudes towards Arabs, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM!
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's a disturbing poll result. n/t
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. Agreed-this poll might just indicate the future of the peace process.
Doomed.
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WVRICK13 Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. More Fucked Up Events
caused by religion. If there was a god it would be horribly disappointed.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. Now we know why Gandhi opposed the creation of the Jewish state of Israel
He foresaw this kind of behavior by the Zionists. Israel is a mutation of Western European colonialism.
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Gandhi believed the Jews should have let themselves die in Hitler's camp rather then fight.
:eyes:

Gandhi isn't right just because he's Gandhi.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. what a crock of vile shit. your hate is just sick. loony and sick.
I didn't see the offensive comment that was posted and deleted but your posts in this thread, sick as they are, deserve the same fate.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. If you bother to do some research rather than post
hateful ravings you might just find what the poster said is quite true
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. here is some of what Gandhi said
Edited on Thu Mar-11-10 10:53 PM by azurnoir
JUDAISM AND NON-VIOLENCE: LETTER TO GANDHI BY A JEWISH FRIEND IN PALESTINE, JANUARY 1939 - FROM HARIJAN, JANUARY 28, 1939

I have been realising more and more that there is, as matter of fact, no contradiction between your Satyagraha or non-violence and true Judaism. On the contrary, all the teachings, views and behaviour of the Jewish people's ancestors, especially from about 2000 years ago, were just like yours, almost in all details.

The main error that most non-Jewish thinkers commit - among them I have even to count the great philosopher Schopenhauer - is when they imagine that the Old Testament and the Pentateuch constitute Judaism. They seem to forget that like all ancient races the Jews have passed through a long historical development of which the Old Testament was the early stage, and that during this development Judaism has reached as high a level as other great religions such as Christianity and Buddhism.

The Pentateuch, for example, says, "If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again." (Ex. 23-4); and later, to quote the Testament, "If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink;" or, "Rejoice not when thine enemy faileth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth."

Then again there are later scriptures of Judaism, as wide as the ocean, of which non-Jews seem to be unaware e.g. the Mishna and its commentary and the Talmud. These are filled with passages expressing ideas which can compete with those in other religions. Hillel said to a Gentile who had come to learn God's law. "Do not do to your next what you do not wish to be done to yourself. This is God's law - all the remaining is only a commentary to it." And Bruria, the noble wife of Rabbi Meir, advised her husband to pray for the conversion of his enemies and not for their extinction.

Love for animals also finds an important place in these scriptures. Rabbi Yehuda Hanasi once said to a calf which escaped from a butcher and came to him, "Go back to the butcher because it is for this purpose that thou hast been created." And for this sin God punished him with a terrible disease from which the Rabbi was not delivered until he showed his mercy on a small insect which the maid servant had thrown away.

In fact, Jesus Christ has added nothing new to Judaism. He has expressed more intensively the spirit and traditions out of which he himself had grown.

Concerning the very grave problem of Palestine. I must, to my great shame, admit that your dislike for the Zionist movement, so long as 99 percent of modern Jews care only for the material building up of this country and desire political and military power over it for this end is perfectly justified. Such entirely ignore the spiritual upbuilding of the Holy Land and the sublime religious ideals of social justice and righteousness with which the visions of our great prophets have always associated Zion and Jerusalem.

About 40 years ago a prominent Hebrew writer and philosopher, Ahad Haam, greatly blamed Jewish new-comers to Palestine for their imperious behaviour towards their Arab cousins, and prophesied that some day there was bound to come a day of revenge. Ahad Haam resisted all political Zionism and only viewed Palestine as the spiritual and cultural centre of the Jewish Race. Similarly Rabbi A.I. Cook emphasised that no return home of Israel to Zion was conceivable without a preceding revival of the true spirit of the people.

In spite, however, of the apparent victory of violence and cruelty, there is a movement among Jews as among all nations for a spiritual renaissance. There is such an organisation of which I am a member in Palestine, specially bound to the views of the two great men, Ahad Haam and Rabbi Cook, mentioned above, and I am sure the way shown by them will redeem us in course of time. You will see that our programme includes nothing contradictory to the principles of your holy Satyagraha.
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No Apology, by Gandhi - From Harijan, February 18, 1939

I have two letters from Jewish friends protesting against a remark of mine in a dialogue reported in Harijan over the Jewish question. Here is one of the letters:

"My attention has been called to a paragraph in Harijan of December 24th, 1938, in which you are reported to have said that 'The Jews called down upon the Germans the curses of mankind, and they wanted America and England to fight Germany on their behalf.` I can hardly doubt that you have been misreported, for there is nothing that could possibly justify such a statement. But as the paragraph much distressed me, I should be glad to receive from you a word of reassurance."

I am sorry to say that I cannot give the reassurance required. For I did make the remark put into my mouth by Shri Pyarelal. Hardly a paper comes to me from the West which does not describe the agony of the Jews who demand retribution by the democratic Powers for German atrocities. Nor do I see anything wrong in the attitude. The Jews are not angels. My point was they were not non-violent in the sense meant by me. Their non-violence had and has no love in it. It is passive. They do not resist because they know that they cannot resist with any degree of success. In their place, unless there were active non-violence in me, I should certainly call down upon my persecutors the curses of Heaven. It is not contended by my correspondents that the German Jews do not want the big Powers like England, America and France to prevent the atrocities, if need be, even by war against Germany. I happen to have a Jewish friend living with me. He has an intellectual belief in non-violence. But he says he cannot pray for Hitler. He is so full of anger over the German atrocities that he cannot speak of them with restraint. I do not quarrel with him over his anger. He wants to be non-violent, but the sufferings of fellow Jews are too much for him to bear. What is true of him is true of thousands of Jews who have no thought even of "loving the enemy". With them as with millions "revenge is sweet, to forgive



Jews and Palestine, by Gandhi - From Harijan, July 21, 1946

Hitherto I have refrained practically from saying anything in public regarding the Jew-Arab controversy. I have done so for good reasons. That does not mean any want of interest in the question, but it does mean that I do not consider myself sufficiently equipped with knowledge for the purpose. For the some reason I have tried to evade many world events. Without airing my views on them, I have enough irons in the fire. But four lines of a newspaper column have done the trick and evoked a letter from a friend who has sent me a cutting which I would have missed but for the friend drawing my attention to it. It is true that I did say some such thing in the course of a long conversation with Mr. Louis Fischer on the subject. I do believe that the Jews have been cruelly wronged by the world. "Ghetto" is, so far as I am aware, the name given to Jewish locations in many parts of Europe. But for their heartless persecution, probably no question of return to Palestine would ever have arisen. The world should have been their home, if only for the sake of their distinguished contribution to it.

But, in my opinion, they have erred grievously in seeking to impose themselves on Palestine with the aid of America and Britain and now with the aid of naked terrorism. Their citizenship of the world should have and would have made them honoured guests of any country. Their thrift, their varied talent, their great industry should have made them welcome anywhere. It is a blot on the Christian world that they have been singled out, owing to a wrong reading of the New Testament, for prejudice against them. "If an individual Jew does a wrong, the whole Jewish world is to blame for it." If an individual Jew like Einstein makes a great discovery or another composes unsurpassable music, the merit goes to the authors and not to the community to which they belong.

No wonder that my sympathy goes out to the Jews in their unenviably sad plight. But one would have thought adversity would teach them lessons of peace. Why should they depend upon American money or British arms for forcing themselves on an unwelcome land? Why should they resort to terrorism to make good their forcible landing in Palestine? If they were to adopt the matchless weapon of non-violence whose use their best Prophets have taught and which Jesus the Jew who gladly wore the crown of thorns bequeathed to a groaning world, their case would be the world`s and I have no doubt that among the many things that the Jews have given to the world, this would be the best and the brightest. It is twice blessed. It will make them happy and rich in the true sense of the word and it will be a soothing balm to the aching world.

Panchagani, July 14, 1946
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Message to the Arabs, by Gandhi - From The Hindu, May 1, 1947

The Jews are a persecuted people worthy of world sympathy and India sympathises with them. They are energetic, intelligent and progressive. The Arabs are a great people with a great history and therefore if they provide refuge for the Jews without the mediation of any nation, it will be in their tradition of generosity.
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Interview to Reuter, by Gandhi - From Harijan, May 18, 1947

What is the solution to the Palestine problem?

It has become a problem which is almost insoluble. If I were a Jew, I would tell them: "Don`t be so silly as to resort to terrorism, because you simply damage your own case which otherwise would be a proper case." If it is just political hankering then I think there is no value in it. Why should they hanker after Palestine? They are a great race and have great gifts. I have lived with the Jews many years in South Africa. If it is a religious longing then surely terrorism has no place. They should meet the Arabs, make friends with them, and not depend on British aid or American aid or any aid, save what descends from Jehovah.


http://www.gandhiserve.org/information/writings_online/articles/gandhi_jews_palestine.html#Jews%20and%20Palestine,%20by%20Gandhi%20-%20From%20Harijan,%20July%2021,%201946
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. And there has never been ethnic hatred or violence in, to or by India?
It's not something unique to Israel; this sort of behaviour occurs anywhere under the wrong circumstances. Nostalgic British imperialists could use equivalent arguments to say that India shouldn't have been given independence. Right-wing Israelis *do* currently use equivalent arguments to argue that Palestinians should not have a state ("they're not ready; they will just fight each other"). Not really a route that we should be going down IMO. Besides, even if the state of Israel should not have been created, it exists now - like the UK, the USA and Australia - and we need to act within that reality.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is very sad...
though not unlike other bigotry elsewhere; e.g. in one study 50% of Brits supported 'voluntary' repatriation of immigrants.

The one encouraging sign is that about a third would refuse military service beyond the Green Line - though it's not as many as those who would refuse military orders to evacuate settlements.

Part of the problem is the segregated education system (as with Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland). This is not education for real citizenship involving interaction with ALL groups in your country - and by high school pupils have internalized a lot of prejudices. Some organizations are campaigning for greater integration:

www.handinhand12.org

www.nswas.org
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. that's very diturbing and it reflects very badly not only on
the Israeli educational system but on the larger culture.
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. Lots of obfuscation and the like here. Filled with hyperbole and personal attacks.
Nothing like trying to get a thread locked so folks don't have to face the unfortunate truth....
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. According to the thread that Donald posted...
there is a big difference between 'religous' and other Jewish young people, with the 'religious' being far more likely to express racist views about Arabs. I've put 'religious' in quotes, as the article comes from FarRightSettlersNews, and their definition of religious may be different from other people's. At any rate, it seems that, as in some other countries, the Religious Right has a very baleful attitude on Israeli social attitudes.

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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. Poll: Half of Israeli high schoolers oppose equal rights for Arabs

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155627.html


Nearly half of Israel's high school students do not believe that Israeli-Arabs are entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel, according to the results of a new survey released yesterday. The same poll revealed that more than half the students would deny Arabs the right to be elected to the Knesset.

The survey, which was administered to teenagers at various Israeli high schools, also found that close to half of all respondents - 48 percent - said that they would refuse orders to evacuate outposts and settlements in the Palestinian territories.

Nearly one-third - 31 percent - said they would refuse military service beyond the Green Line.

-long snip-

The survey, which also revealed that a relatively high number of youth plan on voting and that democracy is still the preferred system of government, indicates "a gap between the consensus on formal democracy and the principles of essential democracy, which forbid the denial of rights to the Arab population," the official said.

"The differences in positions between secular and religious youth, which are only growing sharper from a demographic standpoint, need to be of concern to all of us because this will be the face of the state in another 20-30 years," said Bar-Tal. "There is a combination of fundamentalism, nationalism, and racism in the worldview of religious youth."
----------------------


the religiously insane have a grip on Israel too
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Generation after generation of religious intolerant bigots.
When will the cycle end?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. From South Pacific "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught"
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 12:54 PM by jody
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. kick
nt
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. A perfect reason why abuse of the homeschooling system by fundementalists needs to stop.
Edited on Fri Mar-12-10 01:00 PM by YOY
We have a family in our neighborhood. If keeping your kids dumb and unemployable were a crime...

The teenage daughter is not a happy young lady. She's visably unhappy. She wants to go to school with other kids and her day long Sunday School with other homeschoolers isn't cutting her need for outside contact.

Poor kid.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Outstanding point. n/t
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. OTOH, she is conscious enough to be unhappy about her situation.
A plus for her.
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. What they no doubt recognize is that a Jewish homeland can so easily be destroyed demographically.
Overrun. Out populated.

While some people might say "So What?", Israelis recognize it would mean the end of sanctuary.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Do you agree with them? N.T.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. It certainly sounded like that poster was agreeing with them and justifying that stance...
Pretty nasty if that's the case...
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. What has that to do with equal rights for Israeli Arabs?
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. National Brotherhood Week.. by Tom Lehrer..
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I'd love to see how the Arab students responded in the poll
And I also wonder what the results would be if a similar poll were conducted in the US.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. here are some results from a 2004 poll of both Arab and Jewish students in Israeli high schools:


Youth believe Arabs dirty, uneducated


Recent poll reveals 75 percent of Jewish students believe Arabs uneducated, uncivilized, unclean. Similar stereotypes found amongst Arab students toward Jews, but in lower percentages

Ahiya Raved Published: 01.09.07, 23:12 / Israel News

A Haifa University survey investigating Arabs and Jews' views on one another reveals disturbing results.

The poll showed that 75 percent of Jewish students believe that Arabs are uneducated people, are uncivilized and are unclean.

On the other hand 25 percent of the Arab youth believe that Jews are the uneducated ones, while 57 percent of the Arab's believe Jews are unclean.

Over a third of the Jewish students taking part in the survey confirmed that they are afraid of Arabs.

The poll was conducted by Dr. Haggai Kupermintz, Dr. Yigal Rosen and Harbi Hasaisi of Haifa University's Center for Research on Peace Education.

The data was presented at a bi-lingual conference held in Haifa. The study, titled "Perception of 'the Other' amongst Jewish and Arab Youth in Israel" included 1,600 students studying in 22 high schools around the country.

"We have found a serious expression of stereotypical thinking on the Jewish students' part regarding the Arab youth," said Dr. Kupermintz, who pointed out that 69 percent of the Jewish students think that Arabs are not smart.
Willingness to meet with Jewish students

"These students come in with firm stereotypical baggage regarding the other, and in this case, this is the Arabs," said Kupermintz.
According to the survey, the Arab youth views the Jewish society with fewer reservations: 27 percent of the Arab students believe Jews are uneducated, while 40 percent say they are uncivilized, and 47 percent believe they are not smart.

....

Over 50 percent of Arab students showed understanding towards the feelings of the Jewish students.

75 percent of Arab students showed willingness to meet with Jewish students as opposed to less than 50 percent willingness amongst Jewish students.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3350467,00.html

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Very worrying
Some of this is the racism that you find everywhere (similar percentages of Brits express very negative views about 'immigrants' for example). And some of it is the very pernicious influence of segregation in the educational system. But this poll also shows very starkly the baleful effects of religious extremism, among Jews just as among Christians and Muslims.
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