We will never win another election.........

[SoFlaJets]

until the voting machine crisis is fixed.The machines are FIXED I'm telling you I FEEL it in my bones I KNOW IT-I JUST KNOW IT.We are going to be sitting here scratching our heads wondering "how can this be?"when we know that there's no way that GWB can win the next election and it will be landslide-Reagan-esque-numbers in 2004 that he wins by.Well we might as well get used to it folks.It's gonna be 4 more years of Bush and then Jeb will win 2 terms and by then we'll all be walking around in total fear all the time saying sig heil.Something has to be done-Bev Harris is on it but we need to get serious or suffer the consequences of our INaction.What can be done?

[davidinalameda]

1. deep breath

get a cocktail, take your meds, go out and get laid--just do something to relax

you're going to give yourself a stroke

[SoFlaJets]

3. DWick

1;I don't drink
2:did already
3:got some yesterday
4;I am
5;stroke this
I am serious as a heart attack these machinnes are fixed-we need to have a paper trail to do recounts or what happened in Florida and Georgia and Cal-ee-fawn-ya will be happening in every state.Let me ask you DW-do you think the GOP are above these types of dirty tricks?If your answer is yes maybe then YOU should follow your own advice and get ready to enjoy life under a dictatorship.

[davidinalameda]

4. time for the tin-foil hats?

so every time that a Democrat loses and these voting machines are involved, you're going to blame the machines?

sounds extremely reasonable

[apatriotandalady]

13. Voter Machines

"so every time that a Democrat loses and these voting machines are involved, you're going to blame the machines?

sounds extremely reasonable"

No, it sounds extremely stupid.

[boneygrey]

16. Copters

Yeah, and I'm keeping my eyes open for the black helicopters.

[birdman]

5. Do you have a shred of evidence that the CA election

was influenced by voting machines. The machines in question were
only used in part of the state and the results were consistent
with the pre-election polls and the exit polls.

Were all these people a part of the conspiracy ?

It's a huge leap from computer voting security (which is an issue)
to election rigging (for which there is no evidence).

Calm down.

[SoFlaJets]

7. here ya go

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60713,00.html

[birdman]

11. Written the day before the election

First
potential fraud =fraud

now
anticipated fraud =fraud

Can you show that even one vote was flipped ?

[apatriotandalady]

14. Voter Machines, again

No. 5, thanks for bringing some common sense into this discussion.

[davidinalameda]

31. 5;stroke this

maybe if I was single

[RandomKoolzip]

2. No, seriously, SoFlaJets is right.

We gotta take this to the mountain and shout it loud. A mention here in Rolling Stone, there on NPR, is not going to make this story blow up. I tell everybody I know about Diebold's right wing leanings and software shenanigans, and I mean EVERYBODY. Spreading this via word of mouth will make it eventually catch fire, but in the meantime, somebody has got to take this to the mainstream media. You'd think that a concept like vote-rigging would strike most Americans as a scary proposition, and one they'd like to fix, and I believe IF THEY K N E W about it, they'd get pissed. Keep writing to congressmen, keep writing to the Dem candidates, keep e-mailing news outlets with it, and eventually (hopefully not too late) people will start asking questions in public. But in the meantime, if there's any mainstream journos lurking here.....

[zonmoy]

12. nothing is going to happen

since the same cabal that has taken control of our government also controls all media except for parts of the internet.

[ixion]

6. voting irregularities

there are many voting irregularities that have arisen since the advent of electronic voting machines. I think an auditable paper trail and verifiable results is not too much to ask. To do nothing about this, will surely not bode well for any candidate other than the GOP candidate, because I agree, that either the machines are fixed or hacked at runtime.

neither of these possibilities is so fantastic that it requires a tinfoil hat, IMHO.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Scott Lee]

9. However, COINTELPRO was very real

"Rigged voting booths? I fear threads like this run the risk of placing us in the Indymedia crowd of "Bush Knew", the WTC and remote control planes, and COINTELPRO."


The problem with your statement is that COINTELPRO was no tin foil hat pipedream. It was very real, and the doctrine is still alive today. The operation will undoubtedly change names, much as the hated School of the Americas changed its name in order to try and improve its public image. Here is an excellent resource on this shady group - http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointel.htm

While the FBI claims that COINTELPRO was targeting both extreme left and extreme white (hate) groups, you can tell by the list of organizations it was trying to do its job on, that the thrust of their work was to disrupt and subvert the Left.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[amber dog democrat]

27. My fear is having a repeat of 2000

Only it will be more complex scenereo and fradulent black box voting will play into it.
Chimp and his handlers won't allow him to lose the election.
The GOP never has played fair during national elections since... Nixon.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[mainegreen]

17. Honestly, I think the right has more to worry about this...

Most hackers I know are very left wing, and theres no way that if voting goes electronic it will be the tech-impared right wing who manages to out-rig these hacking groups!

[zonmoy]

18. Except for the fact

that they own the companies that make the machines and the codes that run the machines.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[OKHRANA]

20. i don't think so

every precinct in the country has Democratic Party representatives who would cry bloody murder if they saw anything remotely resembling like what you suggest, and they're looking for it, believe me, that's their job!!!

Politics go in cycles and we're in a pretty hellish shitty one which could end next year if things go right, but I'm not so confident about that - a lot of people are totally fooled or plain ignorant because they don't pay attention to the news except their own petty lives.

[Cassandra]

23. You can't yell about what you can't see

There were reports (I think in the Southwest)of voting machines not recording straight line Dem tickets. I guess they forgot (?) to program for these. Hmmmmmm...... Also the weird wins in 3 Texas counties, each having the candidate win by 18,181 votes.

[Th1onein]

30. There have been some really strange results in black precincts, too

I forgot the states, but the report said that these precincts were known to vote overwhelming Democrat and in the last election they voted 100% for the Republican candidate. I'll try to find the report again......This is nothing to scoff at, though. It's a very real possibility.

[T Bone]

35. Not in the precinct where I was

I was a Dem poll watcher in a municipal election last November. All the competent officials were republican and xtians to boot, and they were leery I was there. But the Democratic Clerk was an old lady that could no longer even look up voter names in the alpahbetized poll book. True. The Democratic Sherriff was absent from the polling station around half of the time.

It was opti-scan here ESS. What I worry about most is shenanigans with the electronic card that comes out of the machine and goes downtown for the official tally. Who takes it downtown ? Is it secure for the trip? Can it be switched out with new totals. Just changing the totals by a few votes in every precicnct in a state could swing an election. Look at Floriduh.

We really need young Democrats to start volunteering to work the polls, the little old blue haired ladies may be ok in some instances if they are still on the ball, but this was one precinct where they were not. I wrote up a summary of what I observed and forwarded it to the county chairman. No word at all back from him yet.

[OKHRANA]

21. It would also help

if Hillary decided to break her promise to New York that she would not run for President, since a greater good is at stake!!!!!!!!

How does HillaryClinton/John Kerry sound? I can dream can't I?

[MisterC2003]

24. While the tone of the OP is shrill, the thought is sound

Some of the code used in electronic voting machines has been "discovered" online and looked at by computer programmers who declared it to be extremely vulnerable to hacking. It could even be hacked by an individual using a PalmPilot. There was a story in Salon about it.

What the Democratic Party should be doing -- and I guess they aren't doing it, or we'd have heard about it -- is set up a committee of computer programmers and so forth to take a good long look at the Diebold software and hardware and give us an expert assessment of the extent of the danger.

The fact that no one is doing so is kinda scary. Any Dem who trusts a Repub where elections are concerned post 2000 is an idiot. And apparently, we got some idiots in the leadership. A lot of them.

Oh, and the "tinfoil hat" comments really resonate. Just what one would expect if the Diebold issue was raised in Freeperville.

[justinpower]

26. Pros have been called in

During the caucuses here in Ohio my congresswoman, Marcy Kaptur, gave a speech about this. Computer profesionals from 3 area universities were sent to Diebold to examine the voting machines. The concensus was that they are far from incorruptable and should not be used. An auditable paper trail is very important in the coming election. I am just not certain how to ensure that we get it.

[andersrda9]

25. I don't know about the voting machine theory

But if the Democratic party can't get behind a single, strong contender, the voting machines won't matter much, will they?

[boobooday]

28. A musical spirit stick for progressives!

Hello everyone,
I am new to the lists, but have been enjoying DU for quite a while.

I wrote a song about George W., and a bunch of my musician friends, and my producer hubby helped me put it together.

We call ourselves Citizen.

It's a positive song about how great it will be when W GOES HOME!!!

Please share as you wish! You can hear it at:

www.wgoeshome.com

Jeanette

[Codeblue]

29. I dont think it matters whether or not

the machines are tampered with or not. The fact is we need to be more aware of these things and not dimiss them as the ramblings of a paranoid hippie.

[rusk2003]

32. DEMS WILL WIN CONGRESS IAM SURE

Because many are upset over republican spending left and right and the corporate corruption and lies about WMD many people relate bush to the war on terror yet they do not do the same to candidates running for Congress as so it should not be that hard. The Patriot Act and so on. But that is the only way the Republicans will win the White House they see Bush and and image of Commander and Chief and Safety comes to mind. members of Congress do not have a military image like that of the CC in the White House.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[EV1Ltimm]

34. Tinfoil hat time...

What if a republican hacker were to skew the election results to reflect the democratic nominee as the winner of presidency?

i'm a little more worried about this scenario than anything else.

but nonetheless, it needs to be resolved post haste.