Why are some (most?) men so homophobic?

[redqueen]

I wonder what the reaction would be to a woman posting in any of the "ooh look a sexy lady!" threads, if she said something like, "Gross!" or "I don't even want to think about that kinda stuff!" or "AAAAH!"...

Why do (some/most?) men do this, but not women? Has anyone seen a woman acting like a homophobic man? 'Cause if so I'd like to talk to her... I really want to understand what's behind that revulsion at seeing someone of the same sex as you without clothes on.

edit: Please note I'm not talking about men who dislike gay people... I'm talking about men who accept gay men and women, but still display revulsion at even the thought of seeing another man naked.

THAT'S what has me confused. I understand the homophobia against gay men... they're repressed... but those that don't have a problem with gay men... only men's bodies... WTF is up with that?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Many, many years of conditioning.

I genuinely feel bad for anyone that grew up absolutely knowing they were gay (well, for any gay person, really). The comments you hear are very hostile.

[mitchtv]

2. additionally, why do strate men like gay female porn,

But strate women do not like gay male porn? ( at least not to the obsessive degree of men)always puzzles me

[progmom]

3. i have often wondered about that as well

:shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Actually there was a study last year demonstrating that homophobic men

were aroused by gay male porn..there goes your answer...it isn't repulsion...it's repression

[havocmom]

13. LOL That's always been my theory. Thanks for validating it!

Homophobic men are just not comfortable about something and it probably doesn't have much to do with anybody but themselves.

I have confronted guys who were hostile to gay men and asked what their problem was all about. Since gay guys meant more girls for them, why the anger? They just aren't comfy in their own skin and they hate the idea that somebody else is enjoying life more than they are.

[khashka]

58. It's got to do with objectifation

We all learn, men and women both, that womens's bodies are beautiful and sexy. Learning that we also learn that men's bodies are not. Kind of a real kick in the face for us guys. But true.


Khash.

[hfojvt]

14. this was covered in Seinfeld

Elaine said "women are beautiful" but naked men "look like monkeys" even to straight women.

[progmom]

16. heh

:rofl:

[Rob H.]

22. I remember that one!

The "Jeep" line is my favorite.

Jerry: Well, I was walking around naked in front of Melissa the other day--
Elaine: Whoa! Walking around naked? Ahh... that is not a good look for a man.
George: Why not? It's a good look for a woman.
Elaine: Well, the female body is a... work of art. The male body is utilitarian, it's for gettin' around, like a Jeep.
Jerry: So you don't think it's attractive?
Elaine: It's hideous. The hair, the... the lumpiness. It's simian.
George: Well, some women like it.
Elaine: Hmm. Sickies.

[TheMightyFavog]

20. Actually...

I've read reports that women are the fastest growing market for gay male porn.

I know a woman on another board who watches a lot of gay male porn, she syas she likes it because "The guys are better looking".

[Bill McBlueState]

35. i don't know about that

I know a lot of straight women who watch Queer as Folk obsessively, usually in my living room. I don't exactly think they're watching it for the witty dialogue and artistically crafted storylines.

[purr]

41. I'm straight and I LOVE that show..

when I had HBO :(

[TimeChaser]

42. Time to show my geeky side again...

There's a genre of manga/anime (that is, Japanese comics/animation) called "Shounen-ai" (or "yaoi," depending) that literally translates into "boy's love" and focuses on (you guessed it) romances between men. It's quickly becoming popular in the US and is aimed many at young, straight women. Although I know for a fact that shounen-ai also has fans among gay men, lesbians, and yes, straight men.

Okay, geek mode off...

[Lilith Velkor]

47. I like gay male porn

I wouldn't kick Monica Bellucci out of my bed, but I am straight.

Plenty of women like gay porn, we just don't talk about it at the office like men do.

[UncleSepp]

52. Slash. Yaoi.

Lots and lots of straight women like male on male erotica, which is as different from gay men's porn as female on female straight men's porn is from lesbian erotica.

[Mutley]

5. I really don't know.

Maybe because they aren't secure enough in their sexuality to be comfortable with homosexuals. I have only met one female who acted the same way as a guy in that manner. When I worked at Toys R Us a girl started there who was gay, and this OTHER girl said when she heard about it (and I quote) "EEEWWWWWWW. I find that so fucking disgusting!" Then when I asked her why it was disgusting she replied "It offends my Catholic sensibilities." :eyes:

I didn't spend much time talking to her after that. But the gay girl and I became friends!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Because deep down inside they want another male to throw them against

the wall and tell them they are pretty....it's fear alright...of their own sexual feelings toward other males.

[Beware the Beast Man]

7. Penis envy.

[RandomKoolzip]

9. How would you know?

[Beware the Beast Man]

10. Precisely. I'm also not homophobic.

:thumbsup:

[MrScorpio]

8. I'm not attracted to men

But, that doesn't make me homophobic

[Misunderestimator]

28. Well, I'm not attracted to men, but it doesn't make me repulsed by

their naked bodies... :shrug:

[Southsideirish]

11. As you say, some are ok with it and have a "live and let live" attitude

but others have a real hang-up about it. Those are the ones I wonder about...

[stepnw1f]

12. It's a Stupid Cultural Epidemic

I grew up with some very homophobic types. It stems from insecurity.

[johnnie]

15. I'm not homophobic

I don't get "grossed out" by a picture or whatever of a naked man, but I don't get turned on. Just like I wouldn't get turned on by seeing pictures of Barbara Bush naked.
But see, I am a freak in this society. I'm not a prude, but I don't have naked people on my mind all the time. I don't undress every woman I see and I have no porn at my house what-so-ever. I am not bummed that we can't have "sex threads" here at DU and I really don't care if anyone is gay, straight, bi, multi-bi-lesbihomo or whatever. I don't continuously try to "pick up" women, flirt, try to spout out "cunning" innuendos or any of that crap.
So, I guess I am not in the position to answer the question..LOL.

[Nikia]

17. Along similiar lines

Many straight men are afraid to show physical affection to male friends like hugging and such. They get all concerned about men holding hands. Bush displaying friendship with the Saudis is a bit of a concern but there's no reason to freak out about the holding hands as a gesture of friendship.

[redqueen]

23. Yes, that's social conditioning... and I hate it.

Men aren't "supposed to" cry, or touch each other unless it's a manly slap on the back or rear end... it's really sad.

[Parche]

18. men

I am..............minus the phobic!!!! haha

I will show you mine if you show me yours!!

[redqueen]

24. Why do you say that all the time?

"I will show you mine if you show me yours!!"

[Parche]

34. redqueen

Just messin with ya.........................haha

[redqueen]

36. hehe

You're freakin me out, man!

:scared: ;)

[Parche]

38. freakin

I will show you my freak if you show me yours!!!

You are the best!!!

[short bus president]

19. what about negative reactions to visual images of nekkid old people?

or nekkid obese people? would you say they're hiding some deep-seated flab-fetish, or wrinkle-relish?

[redqueen]

25. I wouldn't say that...

but notice that I haven't posited that as a theory as to why men who otherwise support gay rights and are not homophobic towards gays might for some odd reason repulsed by even the thought of seeing another man naked.

Obese people and old people are not considered attractive... yet these people would seemingly be repulsed even by the sight of a nude attractive man.

[short bus president]

29. context...

just about every man you've ever met has been around naked men in locker rooms and showers and such, yet there is seldom an utterance of "ew gross!" Perhaps it's just a show when we encounter images of naked men when we happen to be around women, to reinforce to you guys (and prolly ourselves) that we're not into that. I dunno. :shrug:

[SarahB]

26. I would say they're less secure about their own bodies.

Anyone who works in medicine for example sees lots of naked people in may shapes and sizes. Not everything involving nudity involves sexual attraction or sexuality, but if you have a comfort level with the human body it is less of an issue. I mean, we're all nekkid underneath our clothes. :P

[short bus president]

31. "I saw you naked!"

Thanks for the Suicidal Tendencies earworm, miz belle... :P

[KamaAina]

21. They're not firmly convinced of their own heterosexuality

deep down they're worried that they might be... ONE OF THEM!

Digression: One of the best ways for a male (like myself) to get the goat of male anti-choice protesters is to flirt with them. All I had to do was blow a couple of kisses to the head minister: "Eeeeuuw! You probably would!" (No, I wouldn't, even if I were gay. Maybe especially if I were gay. :puke: )

[SarahB]

27. How does that saying go?

"Though doth protest too much." :D

[redqueen]

32. So even if they're not gay-haters, they're still repressing homosexual

tendencies...

I suppose that's reasonable... I just would think that if they were accepting of gay people, that they would be more accepting of homosexual feelings within themselves.

Guess not...

:hi:

[Strawman]

30. Men are insecure about their gender identity and how others perceive them

Men constantly feel the need to prove themselves to be "real men" and reject what is seen as "feminine" in themselves and other men.

Read "The Wimp Factor" by Stephen Ducat. The book talks all about the social ills that stem from "anxious masculinity" and "femiphobia" including homophobia, militarism, aggression, etc.. I'm reading it now.

[redqueen]

37. THANKS!

That's a subject I'm really interested in... the social conditioning that causes some men to subconsciously hate or fear anything feminine.

Another book to add to my already too-long to-read list.

:yourock:

[Strawman]

39. Ties in nice with Thomas Frank's What's The Matter With Kansas

in exploring the central problem facing Democrats: why do working class white men vote Republican against their own interests. I think the answer is:

1) We don't fight hard enough for working class people on bread and butter issues because we have sold out to corporate interests.
2) We need to present an alternative way for men to affirm themselves that is not based in femiphobia.

[redqueen]

51. That second point went over my head...

care to say again?

[Strawman]

53. the process by which we are gendered in this culture is fucked up

it breeds things like gay bashing and aggression because men constantly feel the need to prove that they are manly. Men taught to reject all things that might make them look feminine (femiphobia).

[ovidsen]

33. I saw LOTS of naked men

Dozens and dozens of buck naked men at a time... LOTS of times... when I was taking showers with them after gym classes in high school and college.

It didn't seem to bother anybody then, and it wouldn't bother me now.

[intrepid_wanderer]

40. severe chronic

mentaldisplaciaorientedsensitivity toward giving a shit when they should just be comfortable with who they are.... ugh


unfortunately, they includes me sometimes (in this case) & I'm gay!

Talk about issues!

[Taverner]

43. I have no problem seeing a man naked

And I'm not gay, but....Brad Pitt is one hot MOFO. Same goes for Clooney. I'd watch them nekkid...

[SarahB]

44. For the record...

Feel free to get rid of whatever clothes you want around here. I may be off the market again, but you're still a hottie! :D

[Taverner]

45. Ahhh but they might ban me

If I post something racier than this

[SarahB]

46. Hello! EVERY STRAIT WOMAN/GAY MAN NEEDS TO CLICK ABOVE!!!!

:wow:

[purr]

50. I second that!!!!!

:wow: x2

[purr]

49. oh my....

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hooooooooooo!!

:party:

[Dr Fate]

48. The best way to be a "tough guy" is to stick up for people.

Some men (even Liberals) are homophobic b/c they think it makes them tough- I believe the opposite.

The "tough guy" is secure in his masculinity & embraces people who are different.

[Zenlitened]

54. Unfortunately, our culture (most cultures) places enormous pressure on men

... to "prove" their masculinity over and over and over again, lest they be perceived as weak. For some men, making a big deal about being "not gay" is one way to do that.

There's an author out there, Dr. William Pollack, who discusses the "gender straightjacket" that men are in, from the time they are little boys until the day they die. Check out his website, especially if you are the parent of a boy:

http://www.williampollack.com/

[redqueen]

55. Thank you so much!

This issue is near and dear to my heart, because I realize how closely tied it is to the women's rights movement.

Thank you thank you thank you... that link's going in my sig! :D

[Parche]

57. phobic

Do you know of any women that are?

The ones I know of are so far to the right, religious freaks

[redqueen]

59. Not that I know of, no.

And you'd think it would come up often, what with women's bodies being used as props and all.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. Fear. Not of becoming gay, but of being labeled gay.

In Brazil, for instance, if when among your group of friends you start talking about gay rights or not laugh at gay-bashing jokes, they start looking funny at you.

Although here it's more of a "ha ha ha fags are funny" thing than a "damn all fags I hate them" thing.

[redqueen]

60. Yeah...

We obviously have a long way to go as a species...