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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:06 PM
Original message
So there was enough info to prevent 9/11...
That much, I think, is indisputable.

The question is: was the fact that 9/11 wasn't prevented a result of LIHOP or just incompetence?

What evidence do we have that it wasn't just incompetence?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. PNAC - Cheney's Energy Panel (maps of Iraqi oil fields) - Dabhol
American hegemony. Space warfare. "It's Kissinger's plan."
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durutti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. But but but...
All of these things could just as easily be explained as opportunism by the administration. No planning for 9/11 would have been necessary.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think we need to be talking about motivation. People need to know WHY
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 PM by Stephanie


People need to know WHY they would do it. Once you hear Richard Clarke explain how BushCO blew off all the warnings, how they did nothing even though George Tenet's hair was on fire. And once you hear him and O'Neill say they were talking about Iraq from day one. Once you accept that they could have prevented it but for some reason they didn't, you have to ask WHY they didn't. PNAC shows you that they might actually have wanted a trigger event like 9/11.

People need to know WHY before they can look at other kinds of evidence. IMHO.

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King_Crimson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. CIG - Continuity In Government.
On September 11, 2001, Sneer, Smirk and the rest of the turds of the BFEE put in play the emergency government plans. Nightline (Wed. April 7) said that means they were ready to command and control the armed forces without the oversight or approval of Congress.

Had they been able, these sacks of sand might've started nuclear war. Despite whatever the cover was, they had plans in place to save their own hides, including those of their rich friends. Why else would Rev. Moon build his secret redoubt in Paraguay?

The fact that Sneer and Poppy didn't speaks volumes on the effectiveness of one thing: the ability of an oath taken by the armed forces and people in government service to uphold the Constitution of the United States.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. The curious case of Dave Frasca,
supervising agent of the FBI's Radical Fundamentalism Unit, the agency's "clearing house" of al Qaeda-related investigations. The summer of 2001 he received warnings from Minneapolis and Phoenix field offices about terrorists training at flight schools. Not only did he not act upon them, but he perversely thwarted the investigations of agent Colleen Rowley, actually physically altering her paperwork, rendering it impossible for the FBI to pursue leads which could have exposed the plot before 9/11. Minneapolis agents bitterly joked that there must be an "al Qaeda mole" at the FBI.

Did Frasca lose his job after 9/11? Reprimanded? No. He was rewarded: promoted to No. 2 in charge of domestic terrorism at the FBI. And despite families' entreaties, he has not been called to testify at the 9/11 Commission.

Some details compiled here, courtesy of TruthIsAll:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1297030

So, there's Frasca. And about 10,000 other things.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeh. Him and that BFEE turd extraordinaire Louis Freeh.
Was there a failure by the FBI to collect, analyze or disseminate intelligence about the 9-11 conspiracy?

The FBI had the principal responsibility for a number of major investigations abroad involving al-Qaeda prior to 9-11. These cases included, among others, the bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 for which Osama bin Laden was indicted, the millennium plot to blow up Los Angeles Airport and the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000. The FBI also had a responsibility for penetrating, tracking and countering terrorist conspiracies in the United States. If it did not pursue leads arising out of these cases abroad and at home, or pass the information on, it would constitute an intelligence failure.


Consider the following three FBI events:

1) In the summer of 2001, Phoenix, FBI agents had received reports of Islamists training to be pilots at American flight schools. One informer reported a putative liaison between one of the Islamist trainees and Abu Zubyada. Abu Zubyada had been identified by Ahmad Ressam, who had been arrested six months earlier. as a principal in the Millennium conspiracy to attack Los Angeles Airport. By July 2001, FBI agent Kenneth Williams of the Phoenix field office had sent a memo to FBI headquarters detailing te possible connections and asking for an investigation of Islamists training in US flight schools. Williams reportedly suggested in the memo that " the FBI should accumulate a listing of civil aviation universities/colleges around the country" to find radical Islamists. This memo was of direct concern to the FBI's Radical Fundamentalist Unit, which focused on Osama Bin Laden on his organization (which included Abu Zubyada.)

2) One month later, in Minnesota, the subject of Islamist pilots at US flying schools again came across the FBI's radar. In early August, an executive at the Pan Am Flight Academy in Eagan, Minnesota reported to the FBI field office in Minneapolis that an Islamist student named Zacarias Moussaoui was acting suspiciously in requesting simulated training on the Boeing 747-400.

SNIP...

As a result, Moussaoui's computer was not searched by the FBI prior to 9- 11, although Moussaoui himself was imprisoned on an immigration charge. He was subsequently indicted in the 9-11 plot.

3) While Moussaoui was being detained, the FBI learned that Khalid Al- Mihdhar, a radical Islamist, who was a possible suspect in the bombing of the USS Cole, had entered the United States in June 2001. This information came from the CIA, which on August 23, 2001 reported that Khalid Al-Mihdhar, along with Nawaf Al-Hazmi, had attended a summit meeting of al-Qaeda leaders in Malaysia in January 2000. The meeting had been photographed by Malaysian intelligence, which identified Al-Mihdhar and Al-Hazmi to the CIA in January 2000, and in on March 5th 2000 the CIA received an "information only" cable that both men connected to al-Qaeda were in the US. They had taken rooms in San Diego and were taking flying lessons in US flying schools in 2001. Such al-Qaeda residents were also of direct concern to the FBI's Radical Fundamentalist Unit.

CONTINUED...

http://edwardjayepstein.com/shadow4.htm

Here's where it was Epstein, Minstrel Boy! He asks some grat questions, principally why wasn't Dick Clarke informed the FBI had warnings Al Quaeda was training pilots in the US? Clarke would've busted a nut busting them. The BFEE is guilty, not of gross criminal incompetence, but the BFEE is guilty of treason. They planned these attacks. Otherwise someone, perhaps Frasca, would have actually done his or her job.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. And speaking of flight schools, how is it the FBI
could excuse its "negligence" to the 9/11 widows by saying "there are thousands of flight schools, we couldn't check them all," and when Kristen Breitweiser then asked how they knew which flight schools to visit in order to seize the suspects records before the morning of September 12, they could only shrug and say "We got lucky"?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Totally agree Octafish!
I've always thought Frasca was a key person in this 9/11 puzzle. He was in a position to stuff information from getting up the chain. It seems that there was a concerted effort to have avoid a documented paper trail on the 9/11 terrorists from getting into the WH.

His "promotion" is absolutely astounding, given his role in not reacting to the gathering threat. Why isn't he being charged with criminal incompetance and a 40 year sentence to get him to loosen his tongue?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Here's something that Condi needs to explain.
Since they never expected aircraft as missles, this notation in Paul Thompson's timeline seems to contradict their pre-knowledge:

(6:00 a.m.)

President Bush has just spent the night at Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida. Surface-to-air missiles have been placed on the roof of the resort. <Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02> Bush wakes up around 6:00 a.m. and is preparing for his morning jog. A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent pull up to the Colony stating they have a “poolside” interview with the president. They are turned away for not having an appointment.


So what was the purpose of the surface-to-air missiles?

Is this SOP? Was a SAM battery part of Bush's security arrangements on other overnighters?



From www.cooperativeresearch.org Bush 9/11 Timeline

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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Of course it was incompetence :)
bu$h and Cheney went on an extended vacation just before 9/11 they returned just days before the tragedy. They didn't take terrorism seriously . . . they were focused on Saddam and revenge!

“President” Bush Takes a Vacation!!!
http://www.arts-america.com/vacation.htm
Did our fearless “leader” fall asleep at the wheel of terrorism?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. That's an excellent flash movie! Thanks!
Did you make that?
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yup and more to come!
Pass them around - especially to the "undecided voter"!
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yup and more to come!
Pass them around - especially to the "undecided voter"!:D
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