NYT: Bush* Would Give Illegal Workers Broad New Rights

[kskiska]

By ELISABETH BUMILLER

WASHINGTON, Jan. 6 — President Bush will propose a sweeping overhaul of the nation's immigration laws on Wednesday that could give legal status to millions of undocumented workers in the United States, senior administration officials said Tuesday night.

Under Mr. Bush's proposal, which effectively amounts to an amnesty program for illegal immigrants with jobs in the United States, an undocumented worker could apply for temporary worker status here for up to six years, with all the employee benefits, such as minimum wage and due process, accorded to those legally employed.

Workers who are approved would be permitted to travel freely between the United States and their home countries, the officials said, and would also be permitted to apply for a green card granting permanent residency in the United States.

Administration officials said that Mr. Bush would also propose increasing the number of green cards issued each year, which is now about 140,000, but they did not provide a specific number. The administration officials, who briefed reporters in a conference call on Tuesday night, said only that Mr. Bush would ask for a "reasonable increase."

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/07/politics/07IMMI.html?hp

[rocktivity]

1. Yoo hoo! Georgie! Remember us?

The three million American citizens who are unemployed? And the millions who are in this country working and/or working towards citizenship LEGALLY? TAKE CARE OF US FIRST!!!! And remember that those three million Americans can vote against you!


rocknation

[Elwood P Dowd]

5. Three million unemployed???

There are a helluva' lot more than three million unemployed. The real unemployment figure is closer to 12 million! The fake government stats even admit to around 8 million.

[goforit]

29. At the height of Terrorrism, let's legalize the aliens(possible terrorist)

Thats a brilliant idea W!!!

[LiberalFighter]

32. It's a trap

How else will they capture the terrorists?

[calimary]

30. Okay, start yelling "CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES!"

We should be doing this at every meeting of every union in the country.

[cthrumatrix]

22. Election ploy...NOT to be voted on until 2005 (WSJ)...we should have known

[progressivebydesign]

23. Good Catch by you!

Now.. if ONLY the people were smart enough to figure that out. It looks damn good for his Hispanic target voter group. He's done this before... of course, he got his ass barbequed by the ultra-right when he proposed it before.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. What happens to illegal nannies when they become legal?

Do their employers have to pay them minimum wage AND social security? If so, won't the illegal nannies be out of a job if they opt for amnesty?

Just curious.

[toodles_oduff]

4. They're out of a job and up goes the unemployment rate!

Maybe in that way, this move will backfire on Bush big time! Also, by cutting off his rich friends' source of dirt-cheap household labor, he'll lose their votes. Maybe they won't vote Democratic, but they'll sit at home come Election Day 2004.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. There is a black market labor force out there, which Bush HAS to

know about because he lived in Texas. In California, Texas and Florida, there is a whole cottage industry operating under the radar. And these people want to remain invisible. Heck, Walmart even tried to exploit them.

[radwriter0555]

18. TRUEAMERICAN, in response to your post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=302037#302163

here, I have this to say.

You asked why "illegals are illegal, if they've been here this long". Well, it's about the US border and discriminatory practices aimed at anyone perceived as not being American -- and mostly, anyone with a TAN.

Those 'illegals' should never have been 'illegal' to begin with, since they are the descendants of the original inhabitants of the Americas. They are native American indians, by and large.

Native American Indians have always had natural migratory habits,
(including Central America, Mexico, Canada and Alaska) which have always included heading north (or south) in warmer weather for harvest and hunting. The US/Mexican border notwithstanding, since it is colonially-created, impunes on these natural movements, which, granted, are further reaching today than in past history due to modern technology.

To think we have the right to prevent the natural inhabitants of this country from living, working and traveling here unimpeded is discriminatory and racist.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. I'm not sure where your tribal migratory argument comes from.

Even if they were tribal and migratory, their children, once born in the U.S., would be U.S. citizens.

What is truer is that new immigrants from South Americans (i.e. not just from Mexico) come to the U.S. for the job opportunities and other advantages. Personally, I don't think they mind staying under the radar and I do believe that there are businesses out there that are only too happy to take their cheap labor and keep quiet.

Perhaps if I understood Bush's motives for offering this amnesty it would be easier to determine if it's going to make any difference.

[pinto]

34. looks like a bait 'n switch, red herring two-fer:

Bait 'n switch: green cards for ~8 million foreign workers? never will be..Congress will never significantly increase the number available annually. Bush* knows that from the start. Whats left? The large 6 month in, 6 month out corps of workers, low wage, no benefit, agricultural workers on the whole...who work for the big Republican ag belt in CA, TX, Florida, etc....

Red herring: Bushco is presenting a thinly veiled protectionist law at the summit in Mexico next week, aimed at protecting those same agricultural interests, at the expense of Central and South American ag businesses. We won't hear much about it, probably.

Wild card: Pat Buchanan's comments today were vehement: calls Bush* weak in the face of special interests (Latino voters) and says he lied when stating the proposed rule changes are NOT an amnesty....
Right wing in CA will be up in arms for a while before they step back in line...watch Fresno, Sacto, and Bakersfield papers for the cues.

[dfong63]

3. gee,i wonder

... if this will prove to be as devastatingly "popular" as ex-gov Davis's approval of drivers licenses for illegal immigrants.

[7th_Sephiroth]

6. this subject is pissing freepers off too

i have seen 3 who said they wont vote now cause of it

[Democat]

8. They will vote for Bush in 2004, no matter what they say

Almost every Republican will vote for Bush, no matter what he does.

They are programmed to vote for whoever Clear Channel tells them to vote for.

[Democat]

7. Every Republican will vote for Bush, no matter what he does

Republicans do what they are told. Look at what happened in California - far right wingers voted for Arnold because their radio told them to.

Bush knows that he can do anything he wants to try to get the left and middle votes because he has 100% of the Republican vote locked up.

Right wingers are marginalized by the fact that they will vote for whoever the radio tells them to vote for, no matter what that person does.

Some on the right try to say that all "blacks" vote for Democrats and that makes their votes less powerful. The real truth is that rank and file Republicans have no say in their party because they vote for whoever they are told to vote for.

The Gingrich Revolution is dead, long live the right wing sheep.

[Robb]

15. I'm not sure you're giving the right enough credit

My suspicion is that there are a lot of conservatives who vote for Bush, in the face of disagreeing with him on stuff like this, simply because (get ready) he's the lesser of two "evils". They'll vote for him because the other guy is a commie.

Because this is a politics board, here's the other angle. I think something like this would benefit a Clark candidacy, because I imagine there would be some cons who would vote for Clark because he's a general, period. I know of zero cons who would vote for Dean under any circumstances.

To paraphrase Dookus, I am just talking out of my ass. :shrug:

[GRClarkesq]

17. My feeling

the conservative right is not always happy with Bush, but where are they going to go? Dean?

If there was no 9/11 and resulting Afghani and Iraqi expeditions the conservative base would be a lot more restless. Too many are committed to the "War on Terror" and will put up with Bush's domestic agenda.

The same for progressives, you may not like the mainstream Dem candidate but where are you gonna go? Nader? That worked out well for everyone.

FYI I was reading National Review Online (oppo research, dont tell anyone) but after examining the democratic field they decided that liked Lieberman the most, go figure.

Maybe Joe is in the wrong primary?

[conservdem]

35. CLARK COULD REALLY BENEFIT FROM THIS

if he takes the position that this is a wrong way to go and that he is totally against it. Possible reasons to be against it are our unemployment levels are two high and that it may be bad for security. I bet there are many other legitimate reasons to be against it. From what I heard on somewhat conservative talk radio show today, many otherwise republican voters might support a dem for this issue alone. Clark would probably have the most credibility in coming out against this IMO.

Robb, I also think you are right about conservative voters voting for the lesser of two evils. I voted for a moderate repub once for the same reason.

[stickdog]

9. Cheap Labor Conservatives.

What will they dream up next?

[papau]

10. AP version "Details of Bush Immigration Plan Outlined"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3595646,00.html

Details of Bush Immigration Plan Outlined

Wednesday January 7, 2004 6:46 AM
By DEB RIECHMANN
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - A plan being proposed by President Bush would give legal status to foreign workers, including millions already toiling in America's underground economy, removing the fear of deportation but not putting them on a fast track toward permanent U.S. residency. <snip>

Under the Bush proposal, which could smooth relations with Mexico and help Republicans lure Latino voters, foreign workers could apply for legal status for a three-year period if they had U.S. jobs. They could travel to and from the United States and possibly work in the country for additional three-year periods if approved by Congress.
Senior administration officials who outlined the proposal for reporters Tuesday night said the president is calling for an unspecified, but ``reasonable,'' increase in the number of green cards available to workers. However, they said that being part of what is being called the ``temporary worker program'' would not give foreign workers any advantage to applying for green cards, or permanent residency status - the first step toward obtaining U.S. citizenship.

Immigrant advocacy groups say the president's proposal falls short of comprehensive reform. On the other hand, groups wanting to curb immigration say the president's proposal for a three-year temporary worker plan, rewards foreign workers who broke the law when they entered the United States. <snip>

"Extremely disappointing," said Cecilia Munoz, vice president for policy at the National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic immigrant advocacy group."It's a serious backtracking to where the president was two years ago when the administration was prepared to provide some kind of path to legal status," she said. "They're proposing to invite people to be guest workers without providing any meaningful opportunity to remain in the United States to become legal permanent residents. It appears to be all about rewarding employers who have been hiring undocumented immigrants while offering almost nothing to the workers themselves."

<snip>

She also argued that there are only 5,000 green cards a year available for unskilled workers and the wait to get one is about 15 years. Congress would have to increase the number of green cards by hundreds of thousands to accommodate the millions of immigrants in the country illegally who would want to work, Munoz said. <snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1504&ncid=1504&e=2&u=/afp/20040107/ts_afp/us_immigration_bush_040107064349

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. That's the ticket, let's reward illegal behavior

Why bother going through the legal process to come to America? Sneak in and King George will fix things for you, no problem man.

In the meantime, he is making it easier for real terrorists to come in and stay. That's just what we need. Heck, what's next, free flight school for all illegals?

[Turbineguy]

25. No, it's probably for votes

and it might be to collect more taxes to offset the Bush deficit.

But it is definitely not for what's in the best interest for the country.

[Warren Stuart]

13. What's next, drivers licenses?

It kills me when they claim that these people are working at jobs that no American will work at. This is flat out untrue. Plenty of people are willing to work at these jobs, employers aren't willing to hire them.

[0007]

37. Very true!

[KansDem]

14. This should confuse the xenophobes...

Big time!

[GRClarkesq]

16. The Bush plan based on the premise that the US

has jobs that only foreign workers will fill.

But, if we dried up the stream of foreign workers US employers would have to:

1) Offer better wages and benefits to attract workers; or
2) eliminate the job and find a better way to accomplish the same task, which should also put someone to work.

How awful would that be?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

19. The premise is that he wants to be re-elected

MSNBC is closing their reports on this story this morning with the following: "His advisors have put it plainly: if Mr. Bush does not get more support from Hispanics this year he will lose the election." That's a direct quote from MSNBC, which doesn't validate the remark but makes for interesting TV.

[Fish-Slapping_Dance]

28. But but

would this actually hurt his chances with hispanics who are actually here legally? If I were an hispanic who went to the trouble to get here by the numbers, I'd be majorly hacked that Bush wants to give a pass to those who short-circuited the process I had to follow.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

31. Pat Buchanan hits the nail on the head

It's also critical to note that while Bush may be attempting to win Hispanic votes and appease Vincente Fox, during his press conference today he referred to workers wishing to participate in this program "from abroad." That means the program is not just for Hispanics who want to work at sub-minimum wage farm jobs or Wal-Mart, it's also for Al Quaeda operatives who want to get a job at Burger King and learn how to fly crop dusters in their off-hours. All you need to do is apply. If someone is not on the "suspect list," they won't be turned away...especially if they threaten discrimination lawsuits. So Al Quaeda will step up its efforts to recruit new, anonymous members. Probably fewer people who look like Mohammed Atta and Zacharias Mossaui or whatever Americans "think" an Al Quaeda operative "looks like." They don't even have to commit a "terrorist act" while they are here...just show up and participate in a fully sanctioned U.S. program, gather intelligence, and bring it back home (since traveling freely between the originating country and the U.S. without fear of deportation is a major feature of the proposal). And yes, there are going to be people of all nationalities who stood in line, filled out the forms, and patiently waited for their turn at citizenship who will be...and should be...royally teed off at this. As Pat Buchanan pointed out immediately after the press conference, we are inviting "a massive invasion of people who would love to come to this country and work for four dollars an hour. Employers are refusing to pay the wages an American needs to live in this country at a decent level. They need more than $5.15 an hour to live. Let's go pander to Vincente Fox. This is a transparent sellout of working America." Bush called the program "a tremendous opportunity for immigrants who WANT to work and fulfill their obligations as a wage earner for their families." That was his message to the 9 to 12 million Americans who are unemployed..."the jobs are there, you don't want 'em, screw you."

[Fish-Slapping_Dance]

27. Exactly right

But which of our candidates will step up to oppose this? None. They will be as silent as Marcel Marceau on this issue.

:grr: :nuke:

[jokerman93]

20. Why hasn't anyone made the "military draft" connection here?

This amnesty for foreign illegals, (seems to me) is a windfall for Bush if it goes through. He'll be able to pander to the Hispanic votes, of course.

But the far more insidious angle is the coming need to refresh his imperial army with new blood. Guess who'll be lining up at the induction offices in 2005 - whether they like it or not.

[radwriter0555]

21. Wow, that is an astute observation. Good job, I hadn't thought of that

angle.

Dead on the money.

[Turbineguy]

26. Bingo!

[Manix]

36. ...more cannon fodder ...your right!!

[moondust]

33. Panderer in Chief.

They won't be able to get a driver's license will they Georgie? They might be terrists!! Just ask Arnold!!

[Danieljay]

38. So, we give illegal workers 3 year work visas..

they have children in the United States, start there families here with naturalized born children. The parents then have to return to Mexico without the kids? I'm all for immigration reform, but this to me seem like a pretty costly idea. It seems to me that the republicans would have come unglued had Clinton proposed this. These are the same republicans that bitched about illegal workers driving up the health care costs in America's hospitals. This is a political stunt to gain the support of the hispanic populations in key southern states. Thats it.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

39. Vicente Fox on "Hannity & Colmes"

I've never seen a set of eyeballs dart to the left and right and spin around in a human skull like Vicente Fox's did when Alan Colmes...AND, believe it or not, Sean Hannity...asked him to respond ONLY to the "illegal" aspect of illegal aliens from Mexico. He kept repeating "you NEED them for your economy, they work hard and are very productive and loyal and they will take care of your aging and sick baby boomers." Finally, Hannity put it to him point blank..."we have a law in place and someone crosses our border without our permission and breaks that law," Fox replied "Then I assume you will violate their civil rights like Cubans and maybe even KILL them like in Arizona?" A great civics lesson for us all.
I'm not a Hannity fan by any stretch of the imagination but I woulda bought the big lug a brewski tonight.
:beer: :toast: :beer:

[wabeewoman]

40. Good write-up about this at

talkingpointsmemo.com. I believe its all under the auspices of Homeland Security so I think it is more likely to 'round up' all the "terrorists." The illegals would have to have a job that an American wouldn't want and then they would have to be paid minimum wage and benefits. But if the employer is using illegals, isn't it likely they know they are illegal and don't want to pay minimum wage? So an employer known to be hiring illegals won't be charged with a crime but will be "rewarded" by getting to keep the worker but now pay them legal wages?? And give them safe working conditions and benefits. They and any children born here would have to go home at the end of 3 years unless it was extended.(So being born here would no longer make you a citizen??) Now that we are requiring fingerprinting of tourists entering America, I suspect this latest proposal is a lead in to having all American's identified, fingerprinted and given an official ID card under the guise of making sure we aren't illegal.