Mercury Pollution, Autism Link Found - U.S. Study

[barbaraann]

Mar 16, 8:02 PM ET
Health - Reuters
By Jim Forsyth

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Mercury released primarily from coal-fired power plants may be contributing to an increase in the number of cases of autism, a Texas researcher said on Wednesday.

A study to be published on Thursday in the journal "Health and Place" found that autism, a developmental disorder marked by communication and social interaction problems, increased in Texas counties as mercury emissions rose, said Claudia Miller, a family and community medicine professor at the University of Texas Health Science Center in San Antonio.

"The main finding is that for every thousand pounds of environmentally released mercury, we saw a 17 percent increase in autism rates," she said in an interview.

About 48 tons of mercury are released into the air annually in the United States from hundreds of coal-burning plants.
...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&e=2&u=/nm/environment_autism_dc

[Deja Q]

1. So no more cheap fish sandwiches during Lent, y'all.

Dunno what's sicker - the pollution of our environment or the sick fuckers who authorize it all in the name of THEIR religion. (which must be satanism.)

[NVMojo]

2. this is such a sad disease/condition ...may these corporations

burn in whatever hell is out there ...

[CoffeeCat]

3. It's interesting...

...that many have suggested a link between vaccinations and autism.

If I'm not mistaken the vaccination preservative Thimerisol, contains mercury. I heard one of my Representatives discussing the mercury in Thimerisol and how it may be harmful to children.

From what I understand, most studies did not find a direct correlation between Thimerisol and autism. However, maybe the Thimerisol plus an overabundance of mercury in the environment--may cause autism.

The mercury in the vaccinations may not be enough to cause most cases of autism. However, if a child lived in an area with high levels of mercury PLUS they have mercury in their system from the vaccination--that combination could affect a child.

I sure hope they figure this out.

[Corgigal]

4. especially with the males

Something is so wrong.

[HuckleB]

41. Autism has always been more prevalent in males.

That doesn't have much to do with a possible environmental cause that may be making it more prevalent in general.

[Ilsa]

5. Yeah, and I think there's more...

I think some children are more genetically susceptible. Maybe their systems can't metabolize or process out the toxins as well as other children.

As with some diseases, I wonder if blood type or Rh factor may have something to do with the genetic fault, as well as differences in immune system.

Recently, they also discovered inflammatory processes in the brains of deceased autistic persons.

I think they'll eventually determine that it isn't any one thing, but a constellation of factors and a few defects which leads to the constellation and broad spectrum of autistic characteristics.

[Corgigal]

6. you seem knowledgeable on this field

I have also read about Mercury being held inside the body. Normally found at a high level in the hair. I wonder if it's just some kids, seems like boys, can't metabolize mercury out of the body but girls can.

[Ilsa]

29. Yeah, my son is autistic. I remember a conversation

with a friend who was telling me that when she was studying genetics, that the point was made very clear: male fetuses seem to be much more fragile than girls with respect to things going wrong. I suppose that is because the girls have the benefit of a second set of X chromosomes if they have a recessive trait, whereas boys only have that one X.

[HuckleB]

89. FYI... in case you don't know about this book.

I found it to be wonderful, after noting the recommendation by Nick Hornby, who has an autistic son, in The Believer.

Alas, it hasn't been published in the US, so one must purchase it through www.amazon.co.uk or some other UK source.

George and Sam: Autism in the Family
by Charlotte Moore
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/067091441X/qid=1111108610/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl/026-0862498-0136403

Note: The author also wrote a series of columns (under the title Mind the Gap) for The Guardian about her sons. You can find many of them on The Guardian website via searching the site, using "Mind the Gap" and her name.

----------

Speaking of Nick Hornby, his book review compilation, The Polysyllabic Spree, which is incredibly entertaining, as one would expect, gives all profits to All profits from the sale of the book go to charities: One-half to TreeHouse, a London educational organization for autistic kids, and the other half to 826 NYC, a writing center for kids in Brooklyn.

[chomskysright]

129. Amazon=red company: BUY BLUE: Bookfinder.com

here is link for many choices of that book.
It is still only in hardback, thus rather expensive.

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=p9VnbygfXJp4q,8fptw13lL.IKE_9469817172_1:2:8

[BrklynLiberal]

12. There is an amino acid link. Genetics play a role in how much of that

amino acid a child has in its system. The more they have the more they can filter out the mercury in their system before reaching what is called the "tipping point". That is the point at which neurological damage will begin because the mercury starts to accumulate at toxic levels in the system. Tipping points vary depending on the genetic level of this amino acid in the child's system. This is why some children are more sensitive to mercury poisoning than others. Of course, the levels of mercury in the environment affect the level of poisoning as well. If the environment is saturated with mercury, nothing can protect a child or an adult from being poisoned.

EDIT: I think the amino acid is glutathione.

http://www.bridges4kids.org/articles/12-04/PostDispatch12-13-04.html

Children with autism may process mercury differently than most children, leaving them susceptible to damage from preservatives in vaccines and other sources of the heavy metal, according to a controversial new report released Monday.

The report, by the independent Environmental Working Group, highlights the research of S. Jill James, a professor of biochemistry and pediatrics at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. James conducted blood tests on 20 children with autism and compared them with blood samples taken from 33 children who do not have autism. She found lower levels of a mercury-detoxifying chemical, called glutathione, in the blood of autistic children.

The enzyme also helps rid the body of other heavy metals that may damage cells and organs.

"Given an equal load of environmental toxicants, these kids wouldn't be able to detoxify it or excrete it as well as the average kid," James said.

James also found that supplementing the autistic children's diets with a combination of folinic acid, betaine and methyl vitamin B-12 brought glutathione levels back to levels seen in the children in the control group. The study did not address whether those changes in metabolism lead to clinical improvements.

[Ilsa]

26. Thanks, I hadn't seen anything about this enzyme glutathione.

The do believe there are varying threshold levels in children as well.

Yeah, my son is autistic, barely verbal, but quite intelligent and capable of learning. It is very sad because he knows he is different and is very frustrated.

[BrklynLiberal]

35. I am so sorry that you and your son have been victimized by the chemical

and pharmaceutical corporations. And now again by this administration....

[SnowGoose]

63. regarding glutathione

Hello,

I don't know how much practical benefit any of this may be to you, but you seem interested in the underlying biology, so here are some details if you want them.

Glutathione (GS) is not an enzyme. Most won't even call it a protein, because there are only 3 amino acids in GS, while there are usually hundreds of amino acids in a protein. It's usually referred to as a "polypeptide". The reason that glutathione usually gets abbreviated GS, is that one of the amino acids is cysteine. cysteine is unusual (among the 20 different amino acids that make up virtually all of the protein in our bodies) in that it has a sulfur atom (hence the "S"). One big reason this is important is that this sulfur can form a bond with the sulfur from another cysteine, forming a "disulfide bond" - these bonds help proteins keep their proper 3-dimensional shape.

In the case of GS, the disulfide bond can be to another GS, giving GSSG. Most of the glutathione in your body (it exists within cells as well as being secreted into the extracellular space) cycles between these two states (oxidized and reduced).

When there is a highly reactive compound in your body (think "free radical" or "reactive oxygen species"), it makes sense that the reactive compound might react with important molecules in your body like your proteins, or DNA, or the fats that make up most of your cell wall. It should also make sense that this is undesirable, since that could mess up the molecule, leading to cell damage. Remember that the sulfur of GS can bind with other sulfurs? Well it can bond to reactive compounds in your body too - that's one of its *major* functions. When this happens, it makes it easier for your body to detoxify and eliminate the toxin, so depleted GS is bad.

Here's the main thing I wanted to say. We have a tendency to think "if a little is good, a lot is better." But of course this isn't always so. In the case of GS/GSSG, the pathways act to balance each other, keeping what we call the "redox state" (the balance between oxidation and reduction) in the appropriate zone. You can think of it as a dimmer switch.

The redox state of the cell is one of the master controllers of life. By setting the switch to different settings, the cell can elect to die rapidly and loudly (necrosis), die slowly and quietly (apoptosis), differentiate (mature), divide, or even just idle along. So while having enough glutathione is important, you don't necessarily want to start doing any radical experiments in redox biology, as this is a closely regulated system.

Eating sufficient amounts of a *balanced* protein containing plenty of cysteine is a good way to keep your supply of GSSG at healthy levels. An antioxidant drug called N-acetylcysteine (notice the cysteine?) is another method that has been shown to boost GSSG, because it contains cysteine.

And let me also say that I'm sorry to hear about your son, Ilsa. I can't imagine how frustrating this would be for him (and you). I wish you all the best.

SnowGoose

[tblue37]

138. Do you know about Tito?

Tito Mukhopadhyay is an autistic boy from India whose mother found a way to help him communicate. Because he can now communicate, he is able to explain things and answer questions about how he perceives and processes environmental input.

India-born autistic Tito Mukhopadhyay gives doctors rare insights into his mental state through poems and essays

LOS ANGELES: Tito Mukhopadhyay sits in a darkened laboratory, pointing at flashes of light on a computer screen. On his right is a neuroscientist, one of several who are testing Tito’s ability to see, hear and feel touch. At his left, Tito’s mother, Soma, watches quietly. Tito, who is 14, often stops the testing with bursts of activity. His body rocks rhythmically. He stands and spins. He makes loud smacking noises. His arms fly in the air as if yanked by a puppeteer. His fingers flutter. Everyone waits.

Tito reaches for a yellow pad and writes to explain his behavior: “I am calming myself. My senses are so disconnected, I lose my body. So I flap. If I don’t do this, I feel scattered and anxious.”

Tito has severe autism, a disorder that occurs when the brain mysteriously fails to develop normally in infancy and early childhood. Born and raised in India, Tito speaks English with a huge vocabulary. His articulation is poor, and he is often hard to understand. But he writes eloquently and independently, on pads or his laptop, about what it feels like to be locked inside an autistic body and mind.

. . .

Autism experts are studying him, amazed to discover, for what they say is the first time, a severely autistic person who can explain his disorder. “Tito is for real,” said Dr. Michael Merzenich, a neuroscientist at the University of California at San Francisco Medical School, who has run extensive tests on Tito. “He unhesitatingly responds to factual questions about books that he has read or about experiences that he has had in detail and in high fidelity.” “I’ve seen Tito sit in front of an audience of scientists and take questions from the floor,” said Dr. Matthew Belmonte, a neuroscientist and an autism expert at Cambridge University. “He taps out intelligent, witty answers on a laptop with a voice synthesizer. No one is touching him. He communicates on his own.”

[Ilsa]

27. I just checked onthis and learned that

it probably needs to be taken sublingually or transdermally as glutathione will be broken down in the gut by by gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (enzyme). I think I have a source for it already that my 8 year old can manage. Dosage is an issue, though.

I think my son became autiitic in utero after i had a flu vax when I was pregnant. Also, I had a MMR six years before that probably was unnecessary. My measles titer was almost 1,000, when it should have been between somewhere around 9-15, IIRC.

[BrklynLiberal]

33. I JUST heard on the radio that boys tend to have this genetic shortage

more often than girls, and that is why they are more often found to have autism. It was on "UNFILTERED" on AirAmericaRadio.

[HuckleB]

43. We have much more to learn about this.

But we are making some headway...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=586446

[BrklynLiberal]

57. Very interestng story. Thanks for the link.

[chomskysright]

133. GREAT discuss:have forwarded to UNC Autism people

[Emillereid]

145. I read another similar report in New Scientist about a year ago.

Gosh how I wish our species had grown ups who would know it's not a good idea to live and raise children in our own waste. I sometimes marvel at the resilience of the human body to grow in spite of all the chemical assaults from the environment. When I look at what passes for food in this country it's a wonder children have any kind of functioning brain.

[CHIMO]

7. Ring of Fire

Had an interview on this.

The alarming increase in autism and other learning disorders in American children is now linked to thimerosal, a mercury preservative in childhood vaccinations. Bobby talks with Sarah Bridges, a psychologist and mother whose son was brain-damaged by vaccinations and is now autistic. Bridges is fighting a bill by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist that would protect the pharmaceutical industry from lawsuits over vaccination-related injuries.

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/shows.asp


http://www.nomercury.org/science/documents/Seed.pdf

[CoffeeCat]

8. That's disturbing...

Bill Frist is working on legislation that would leave the pharmaceutical companies unaccountable if they damage our children?

Where is my country?

[LdyGuique]

15. There is "some" evidence for Thimerisol --

and you're right, it's "quantity"

For example if a child has one immunization containing it and then another one a month later -- no problem

However, where children, especially children getting ready for school who have not been immunized previously -- they are given several shots at a time to catch them up

If they are also in an area where coal-burning power plants have been dosing the environment, there is a rapid increase in mercury levels.

One of the subtle dangers of power plants is that electricity disappears into the ether the further it travels along powerlines; so, many power plants are built as near as possible to their customer base, which showers their environment in mercury if these are coal plants.

[LiberalEsto]

79. I think you're right

the extra mercury in the Thimerisol may be the amount that tips the balance toward autism.

There are so many autistic kids around these days, and dealing with them is hell for the families.

Makes you wonder if this is why the rethugs pushed "tort reform" -- to ward off future class-action lawsuits by parents of autism victims. Don't the B*shes have some kind of financial interest in mercury?

[Eloriel]

121. You trust the "studies" showing no link?

I don't and never did -- not after I heard PARENTS saying that their kids were never the same after they got a certain set of vaccinations.

Besides, if Mercury is BAD for ya, isn't it insanity to put it in ANY form, and in ANY amount in vaccines? (Duh!) Of course, that's not the same thing as saying it causes autism, but still -- in one sense, who cares what it does or doesn't directly or indirectly cause when you shouldn't have ANY?

[tavalon]

9. And Ms. Miller,

how much of an increase in autism did you see with each childhood vaccination that, until 1999, contained between 12.5 mcg and 25 mcg of thimerosal which is 49.7% mercury by weight? Oh wait, before you answer that Ms. Miller, were you aware that the EPA considers 0.1mcg/kg/day to be the safe legal limit for human consumption of mercury? I'm sure you are aware Ms. Miller, that newborn babies (who are generally about 4 kg at birth) were receiving the Hepatitis B vaccine (containing 12.5 mcg of thimerosal) throughout the 1990s? I'm guessing that you also know that the incidence of autism rose during that same time from 1/2000 children to 1/150 children?

I don't disagree that mercury pollution is an important issue and that it did contribute to the increase in autism. I just get a little sick to my stomach when I watch folks (read that as the CDC and the IOM and the researchers who take their money) try keep the public from finding out the main reason that autism has become an epidemic.

[tavalon]

You know what's amazing guys?

I wrote this angry, smart-ass but true, message before I read the rest of your responses. I am truly grateful to see that many of you have already heard about the thimerosal/autism link and that one of you touched on the genetically susceptible link as well.

I spent two years researching autism obsessively and the answers are actually all out there. The most devastating thing I learned during that two years is that the CDC and the IOM found out, through a study by a Dr. Verstraeten, that there was a likely causal relationship between thimerosal laden vaccines and autism. Rather than sounding the alarm, they circled the wagons and altered the statistics to make it look like there wasn't a causal relationship. Now, it's one thing to screw up (remember thalidomide?), but it is quite another to screw up and then cover it up while children continue to have their brains destroyed. They covered it up, because, in their words, it could be a medico-legal nightmare. What the fuck!??!

It took me a huge amount of research to find all of this out. You can read a letter from Dave Weldon, M.D. Member of Congress that outlines much of the way that the CDC manipulated things. Research the Simpsonwood retreat meeting if you really want a gut kicker.


http://momsonamissionforautism.org/Autism_Central/Dr_Weldon_Responds.shtml

Edited: for link

[Dookus]

16. the links between thimeseral and autism

have been pretty much debunked by real science.

[lostnfound]

20. and toxic sludge is good for you.

I'm not so sure that it's been debunked yet..there's way too much 'smoke and mirrors' pseudoscience being sponsored by the vaccine makers.

[Susang]

115. What pseudoscience is that?

Do you have any proof of that?

[earth mom]

21. What makes one scientists tests better or more valid than anothers?

That's the trouble here. These pharmaceutical giants get their scientists to skew test results in their favor and as someone else posted-factually I might add-that they are COVERING IT UP-because they don't want to be held accountable. :mad: :mad: :mad:

C'mon now, doesn't it make sense that if a pharamaceutical company is doing the disproving or proving of this that ultimately and diabolically they don't want to be held accountable and they will do whatever it takes to make sure they aren't?! :puke:

Added to the mix these assholes have many people in Washington in their back pockets-BOUGHT & PAID FOR-who, at the expense of these children and their families, have done everything in their power to sell them down the river. These are families that are often overwhelmed at the expensive and intense help or therapy for their kids need on a daily basis and who are worried about their childs future after they are gone. Meanwhile the pharma giants roll in money and could care less as long as they've won and not have had to part with any of that precious money that they've screwed the entire country over for in the first place. Words cannot express how disgusting they and their tactics are! :puke: :puke: :puke:

[chomskysright]

142. And the American Chemical Council evaluates pesticides.....

In the Dow study, human subjects were given doses four times the level that the E.P.A. knew produced adverse affects in animals. Subjects suffered numbness, headaches, nausea, vomiting and stomach cramps. Dow’s doctors determined that these symptoms were “possibly” or “probably” related to the chemical. But in the final analysis of the study, Dow concluded that the pesticide did not produce any symptoms. And the E.P.A. accepted it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/05/03/12_epa.html

[tavalon]

22. Yep, Science

And make sure you capitalize that one. After all, the Science was bought and paid for with your tax dollars.

Look hon, I am a woman of science. I was raised on it and believed in it as only a priest/priestess of the craft can. Luckily, that very same training allowed me to look beneath what was being told to me, to find the truth. If you can't handle the truth, that's OK, but considering what you should know of our government by now, it's pretty absurd to deny the possibility that our own CDC and IOM might have a wee bit of a political bent, now isn't it? A little too tinfoil hat for you? Tough shit.

If you want to look beneath the covers, I can point you to quite a few places, but I'm not here to convert you, not at this point. I found out the truth and I fought as hard to get that truth out as I am now to get out the truth about this fascist government of ours. As a matter of fact, the growing fascism is the very thing that drew me away from autism as my subject matter. I realized that it didn't much matter if I could save a few children if those children were going to have to face a situation as bad as Hitler's Germany. I will go back to my research and continue on that path after this current situation has been vanquished or our country goes under, whatever comes first.

By the way, I'm a registered nurse and I had just finished taking the MCAT to go to medical school when I unearthed this unholy breach of ethics perpetrated upon us by the very people I once worshiped. Needless to say, it shattered my faith in what I once thought was science, but found out was a religion and not a very good one at that.

So, kindly don't preach to me about the science. I can run rings around you on the science, bucko.

[Susang]

114. While you're preaching to Dookus about how much you know about Science

Let me tell you something about autism. My sister has spent her entire career studying it "obsessively", not just two years. And no, the answers are not all out there, not even close.

She spends 12 hours a day, 6 to 7 days a week working with autistic children and adults. The more they study it, the more they realize that there are no easy answers to the cause of the illness. The idea that you think you can study it for two years and claim you have all the answers is ludicrous at best. People are giving their life's blood to this problem, your claim to ultimate knowledge cheapens that. You really should stop it, it's insulting.

[sendero]

25. Dookus...

... you crack me up. You actually think there is such a thing as "real science".

Where the fuck have you been?

[Baconfoot]

49. probably out NOT having her foot cut off because we have antibiotics nowNT

[Dookus]

60. You don't believe in science?

That it even exists?

Are you posting here using an abacus and a long vine?

[sendero]

67. I don't believe in science..

... that is funded by folks with a vested interest in the resultant data.

If you want a clear example of what I'm talking about, look no further than the spate of pharmaceuticals that have been pulled off the market.

In most cases, the concerns about their problems was well known but downplayed by people who funded the research, namely the pharmaceutical companies themselves.

Perhaps my remark was too flippant, but I seriously believe that medical research in this country is often anything but science. And the recent steps by Bush** to politicize science is another example.

[BrklynLiberal]

55. Really?

<snip>
Dr. Mark Geier and MedCon, Inc. President, David Geier, are independent researchers, who at the behest of the U.S. Congress have analyzed the VSD data. They found an overwhelming epidemiological confirmation of a direct link between thimerosal and autism. In fact, the researchers found that the risk is comparable to smoking and lung cancer. Their study will be published in December in the peer-reviewed journal, Expert Review of Vaccines. <snip>

more....
http://momsonamissionforautism.org/Autism_Central/CDC_Scandal_Emerges.shtml

First Official Recognition of Thimerosal Dangers Made -May 2003-

“The CDC’s failure to state a preference for thimerosal-free vaccines in 2000 and again in 2001 was an abdication of their responsibility. As a result, many children received vaccines containing thimerosal when thimerosal-free alternatives were available.”
<snip>
After an extensive three-year investigation initiated by the Committee on Government Reform, a report was released concluding that, “there’s no question that mercury does not belong in vaccines.” For the first time, U.S. officials have undoubtedly recognized that thimerosal poses a very serious risk to those subjected to its’ neurotoxicity.
<snip>
July of 1999 the FDA requested that manufacturers remove thimerosal from pediatric vaccines because the immunization schedule had resulted in some children receiving a higher amount of mercury than the established amount deemed safe. When researchers looked at the effects of mercury poison, they found that if the vaccine schedule is followed American children had been exposed to 30 times the minimum acceptable level of mercury from vaccines.
The number of children that have been affected by autism had made a drastic jump from 1 in 2,000 in 1970 to 1 in 250 in 2000, and the number of children diagnosed with learning disabilities is now 1 in 5. Vaccines with mercury have been considered to contribute to autism, learning disabilities, Alzheimer’s disease, and other neurological conditions, yet many clinics still use thimerosal because of the gradual phasing out of mercury products.
<snip>

More...
http://www.thimerosal-autism-symptoms.com/

[Dookus]

59. yeah, really

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/thim...

from the Centers for Disease Control:

"The level of mercury exposure from vaccines is low. There is no evidence to suggest that thimerosal in vaccines causes any health problems in children and adults other than minor reactions like swelling at the injection site."


http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/mayautism.htm

From the American Academy of Pediatrics

Pediatricians should continue to promote immunizations for all children. Continued high immunization rates are crucial in preventing an increase in life-threatening infectious diseases. Parents should be reassured that at the present time, there is no scientific evidence to support claims that the measles/mumps/rubella (MMR) vaccine or any combination of vaccines cause ASD.

[Desertrose]

62. if you believe in "real science"...does that

make you a "true believer" ?:evilgrin:


....and if science is valid for some results using scientific methods, and the same methodology is used for other tests producing different results, then what makes one more "true" or "reliable"??

I'm inclined to believe the folks who make and sell these vaccines may be a bit biased, don't ya think thats possible??

I completely agree with tavalon and The Golden Rule with this......for certain folks its about covering their asses and saving $$...for others its more about getting at the truth - for the sake of those who deal with autism on a daily up close basis.

I honestly think its way too soon to throw out any one thing as "debunked".

[Dookus]

72. I posted links

from the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

There simply isn't an established link between thimerosal and autism. As the OP says, environmental exposure to mercury is a much greater danger, and where we should be focusing, instead of scaring people into avoiding vaccinations based on nothing.

[Desertrose]

75. "based on nothing"?

"scaring people into avoiding vaccinations based on nothing."

I seriously don't know if I would want to take that risk with my children now.....as a matter of fact...I did cut out many as they got older and they are very very healthy....I was concerned back then and that was 20+ years ago. My sense is there is probably more "additives" in vaccines now.


There are also links that connect thimerosol and autism too...again. If the other tests are scientifically valid, then what other basis do you have to decide which are correct? If science is the only and final word, then what of conflicting results? does one simply get to pick & choose to fit one's "beliefs"?

[Dookus]

81. I think not vaccinating one's children

should be grounds for arrest.

[Desertrose]

84. be more specific...which vaccinations...all of them?

"One hundred years ago, children received one vaccine. Forty years ago, children got five vaccines routinely by two years of age. Children now receive 52 vaccines, in the form of 15 shots, by the time they are six months of age if they receive all the recommend shots. Vaccines contain mercury, which has been associated with neurological disorders in children including ADD learning difficulties, Autism and speech delays. "


Do you mean all the multiple vaccinations for babies - MMR, DPT(DTaP now), Hep B, HIB, Varicella (chickenpox),influenza, PCV (pneumococcal vaccine) and possibly HepA?? Thats a hell of a lot of "stuff" being put into my childs body. What about natural immunities from the mother...especially if she breast feeds?

I'm sorry...I disagree...I think there is much at stake here...there is a lot of information to absorb before I would go ahead and give my infant anything, if I had to make the choice today.

BEFORE YOU VACCINATE ASK EIGHT QUESTIONS: 

1. Is my child sick right now?
2. Has my child had a bad reaction to a vaccination before?
3. Does my child have a personal or family history of:
* vaccine reactions
* convulsions or neurological disorders
* severe allergies
* immune system disorders
4. Do I know if my child is at high risk of reacting?
5. Do I know how to identify a vaccine reaction?
6. Do I know how to report a vaccine reaction?
7. Do I know the vaccine manufacturer's name and lot number?
8. Do I know I have a choice?

  http://www.909shot.com/

I know vaccines have helped a great number of the population...but how many have they harmed? did you know that child brain tumors are on the rise? http://www.ouralexander.org/increase.htm

There is a lot we just don't know.....


Its not right to have this legislated ....to tell someone they have to vaccinate their child.

>>>..."grounds for arrest."

Like someone knows what is best for EVERYONE. WOW.

[NickB79]

93. Natural immunities from breast-feeding wear off

From what I recall in my immunology class a few yrs ago, within 6 months after breast-feeding is terminated, most of the transferred immunity from breast milk is gone from the child's system.

BTW, the MMR vaccine has shown no potential for autism: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7076. MMR vaccine has NEVER contained mercury.

[HuckleB]

101. Two more questions must be asked...

If I don't vaccinate, what risks am I putting my child at, and do those outweight the risks of vaccination that may exist? Further, what risks am I putting my future children -- and possibly others in the population -- at if I inadvertently assist in the promulgation of once scarce diseases?

I am not trying to be a hard ass, but these questions cannot be ignored.

[Desertrose]

104. I agree...there are a lot of questions that need to be asked

This is not a simple decision becuase it not only affects your child but others as well and I think that has been the big push to simply vaccinate everyone.

I wish I had answers...I'm really glad my kids are adults.

I can see the advantages and drawbacks of both sides.But when it comes down to it I think most parent will do what is best for their individual child- whatever that may be.

I remember when I was in PA there was a serious issue about Amish & polio vaccinations.

I feel that it is just as important to look to ways to keep our children healthy to keep their immune systems strong...I think maybe we depend on the use of "miracle drugs" when the miracle is in the human body- to maintain heath and heal itself.

I am concerned that we put too many things into the human body- especially young growing bodies- that may compromise thier natural ability to deal with illness , disease etc. I think we need to look very hard at our diets and environmental factors....but that's a whole other conversation :)

[HuckleB]

107. No argument there.

Improving immunity through diet is a must. And dealing with environmental issues putting people at risk may be more serious than fighting infectious disease in the long run. It's difficult to find the balance, but I hope we can all agree to try to seek it.

:hi:

[thinkingwoman]

97. this is why

liberalism is equated with nannystatism by the general populace.

You say people should be arrested for not vacinating their kids. I say that arresting people for making medical decisions you disagree with ends democracy.

What's next, arresting people for using birth control? Getting an abortion? Failing to fill cavities?

[HuckleB]

102. You may have a point.

However, the examples you offer are not comparable to the decision to not vaccinate, as that decision could promulgate the increase of disease throughout society. Thus, it is a decision that could put others at risk.

[thinkingwoman]

105. not exactly

If one person doesn't vaccinate, they don't put anyone at risk except those who have decided not to vaccinate (who have, frankly, already made the decision to take the risk).

The promulgation of disease line is a strawman. People who vaccinate are not harmed in any way by those who don't.

Just to be clear here...I was vaccinated, my husband was vaccinated, and our children were vaccinated. Everyone I know was vaccinated. But I don't think the government should be jailing people who decide not to. That's not freedom, in my opinion.

[HuckleB]

106. Sorry, but it's no strawman.

It can't simply be dismissed, as you have chosen to do so. If someone chooses to allow their children to be exposed to infectious disease that tends to mutate, you are putting everyone at risk by allowing your child to be that organism's evolutionary point place. You are putting others at risk.

[thinkingwoman]

108. evidence?

Do you have evidence to back this up?

I've got two husbands (ex and current) and many friends with biology degrees. I've discussed this with them in the past and they agree with me.

There is no evidence that a small percentage of unvaccinated people (and it is small, make no mistake about that) will cause a disease to mutate to the extent where it infects vaccinated people.

Therefore, it absolutely is a strawman argument. Unfortunately good intelligent people still fall for it.

[Desertrose]

109. I agree, thinkingwoman, why look for things to go into fear about??

"There is no evidence that a small percentage of unvaccinated people (and it is small, make no mistake about that) will cause a disease to mutate to the extent where it infects vaccinated people."

I agree ....those already vaccinated are already protected ( if not, then why bother) ....since there is no way to vaccinate every living person against a particular disease, then there always was and always will be a very slight risk, right? Seems to be needless worry...what could you realistically do about it?

If I were looking for things to worry about, think I'd be more concerned with the mutation of the "superbugs" that have become resistant to our antibiotics.

[HuckleB]

112. So you understand the issues about mutation,

via folks who don't complete their prescribed doses of antibiotics (and, yes, overuse of antibiotics), but you don't see how other organisms would mutate within those who would be susceptible to them (because their parents chose not to immunize), and thus make the mutations available to attack others?

Interesting.

[Desertrose]

117. question.....

Of course I get the issues about mutation...but my question is:

Do you have proof that these diseases you seem so concerned about have mutated because of not being vaccinated?? Is there proof or indication this is likely or already happening as it is with the bug-resistant antibiotics within the past 20+ years?

Seems to me that mutations are a part of nature. How can that be stopped? I'm not sure what your point is....haven't we already established it is impossble to vaccinate everyone? I think this is a fear that you will just have to deal with about this...you cannot force the world do to what YOU feel is right & safe and I;m sure you're aware that life does contain some risks for all of us.

If you are so concerned about this possibility, then get yourself & your kids vaccinated and stay far away from the unvaccinated population is the best I can come up with.

[HuckleB]

120. It's all about odds.

The more freely an organism is allowed to spread, the more often it will mutate, and the more likely one of those mutations will be able to reproduce and spread to others and on down the line.

Yes, mutations are a part of nature. That's the point. When it comes to infectious diseases, the fewer organisms in existence means the the lower the risk of mutation and spread. There is also the issue of herd immunity, which has been studied quite extensively, and this immunity is being put at severe risk in a number of areas because of people making the "choice" not to immunize.

I am sorry, but your last comment is simply uncalled for. That's like saying I should keep my kids from breathing the mercury in the air that is at suspicion and started this thread. That's simply washing your hands of a very serious and complicated issue, and I don't find that to be an ethical answer.

[Desertrose]

122. Sorry you didn't like my reply...unethical though?

Not sure how you get there.:shrug:

It sure sounds to me like you are saying that everyone must vaccinate their kids in order to better maintain the "herd" immunity.

Do you know how that sounds???


As far as my suggestion about taking your kids away from those who choose to remain unvaccinated..yes, it is unrealistic, isn't it. Just as unrealistic as your saying everyone must vaccinate.

BTW- if these diseases would happen to mutate, then what is to prevent an updated-upgraded vaccine from being created??

Not to make light of this, but I honestly think there are larger things to be concerned about here....sorry.

[HuckleB]

130. Please reread what I've actually written.

I find it unethical to sort of discuss and issue, but then just dismiss it when the complications of the issue at hand make easy answers difficult. That's what you chose to do with that last line. It was uncalled for and unconstructive.

I brought up the issue of herd immunity because it cannot be ignored when discussing this issue.

Sure, we can work to develop "upgrades" if all goes well, but a number of people are likely to die or face disabilities in the meantime, and it can be difficult to assess for safety, which is why we are discussing this in the first place. The outcomes of such a philosophy are not something that I find to be acceptable, especially when we are talking about something that can be prevented. From your post above, it seems clear that you would like to prevent environmental causes of disease, so I find it interesting to note your take on this issue. Why is it wrong for corporations to put us at risk, but ok for individual parents to do the same thing? I don't have a wonderful answer to that question, but I don't think it's fair not to ask it. It should be a part of this discussion.

If you thing there are larger thing to be concerned about, why are you discussing this matter?

[Desertrose]

144. I didn't know there were requirements to post & discuss thing here.....

ahem...I'm kidding...well sort of.
Excuse me, I am discussing this matter because I choose to, that does not preclude the fact that there aren't bigger things happening in the world, does it?

Uncalled for and unconstructive? I am not dismissing anything...I don't see how my continuing or not continuing this discussion will change anything, You are right- there are no easy answers and I have stated that in my other posts. Plain and simply, we disagree about this...I don't feel that every child must be immunized...even to protect the "herd'...even if it improves the "herd".

As far as the comparisons of parent & families with corporations....you don't see the difference??

A corporation is not a living being...it is an intellectual construct created to benefit & work for humans ( well that was the original intent)...it has no feelings, no health issues...at least not beyond the financial health of the corporation. Corporations get away with polluting the air we breathe, the water, the land...for what ultimate reason? Most likely financial profit. (and I am not going to get in to the whole thing about families depending on these corps for a living- that is an entirely different discussion). We can and should legislate what they can do with communal air, water etc. because they should not have the right to supersede our rights to a clean environment.


A parent however, is making a decision about a living breathing feeling being that they love and want the best for. How can you legislate their decision - their choice for what they feel is in the best interest of that child? will you next decide who will or will not have children based on the decision that they will or will not vaccinate that child? Where does this stop?

Are we a society that will eliminate those unhealthy ones to best benefit the "herd"? To not allow those to even be born or continue to live who are not best able to uplift the genetic pool of the "herd" or detract somehow from the "herd"?

Do you see where I am going with this?? This to me, is about where do we draw the line at the govt interfering in our rights as parent's...as humans? I find it very frightening that we've gone as far down that road as we have...


On a different note, may I ask you if this is so dire, how has the human race managed to survive and populate the earth to record numbers if this disease mutation is such a problem? I'd say mankind has survived well enough so far...and now we have science on our side, right?

Also ...isn't it possible that some mutations can be beneficial in the long run?


As I said before...life is all about taking risks...sometimes we can better the odds, sometimes we can't...but we don't have the right to trample over peoples rights to do it.

[HuckleB]

149. Hmm.

I don't have time to address your entire post, but why is it ok for some people to put others at risk because they choose not to do something? I mean that means those people are trampling on the rights of others by putting them at risk, doesn't it? It sure seems so to me. Rights discusssions are never so easy, because perceived rights tend to go both ways.

By the way, I don't buy your argument about parents vs. corporations. Individuals also pollute, and they are, when they can be, held accountable. Why should some individual decisions that affect others fall under scrutiny, while some select others do not?

[thinkingwoman]

131. aha

I see the problem. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

Funny how there is no global polio epidemic, and no new super strain, even though everyone on the planet certainly has not been vaccinated.

[HuckleB]

135. Talk about a strawman.

If it hasn't happened recently, then it can't happen. No the world hasn't known a history of superstrains that have killed off millions. Nope. That's never happened.

Please don't play games.

:eyes:

[thinkingwoman]

140. See post #139 nt

[thinkingwoman]

128. superbugs

are a danger right now, in our lifetime.

Notice that those on this thread who claim vaccinated people are in such danger haven't provided a single link to evidence.

[HuckleB]

137. Hmm.

On the other hand, you offered evidence for your stance?

Uh, that's a rhetorical question. Some types of knowledge are general, by the way. You may want to refute them, and that's your right, but it doesn't mean you are right.

[thinkingwoman]

139. still no evidence.

Until you offer evidence, there's no need to continue this discussion.

You can have the last word if you want. Won't bother me a bit. Enjoy.

[HuckleB]

147. Until you do your homework.

And until you learn to discuss with honesty and integrity, you are right. There is no reason for me to ever bother discussing anything with you again.

[HuckleB]

111. Are you kidding me?

I have a hard time believing that people with biology degrees would agree with your statement. Do they not understand basic biology, basic microbiology, basic organism mutation?

This isn't some "out there" issue. This is basic science.

It's no strawman. Again, it's basic, and it doesn't even address the issue of responsibility to one's own child. Call it a nanny state if you want, but if a parent doesn't feed a child, regardless of the reasons used to justify the decision, it's called neglect. Now I'm not yet about to say those who choose not to immunize are in the same category, or are neglectful. But the point remains: A parent's choice to not immunize does affect others, including one's own children. And that's no small issue, IMO.

[Susang]

118. If basic microbiology was understood

This argument wouldn't be taking place. ;-)

[HuckleB]

119. LOL!

:)

[thinkingwoman]

127. as I posted

someone with a microbiology agrees.

NO evidence has been provided that polio, measles, mumps, and rubella are mutating and threatening vaccinated people because unvaccinated people are gettig those diseases. None.

;-)

[Susang]

150. Someone with an English degree

Has no idea what your first sentence is supposed to mean. :shrug:

But here's an interesting article from a physician who does understand what I'm talking about:

Unvaccinated children in the developed countries, are, to some extent, "free riders". Because of the herd immunity that exists because of mass vaccination, the unvaccinated are also protected. Unless, of course, they become numerous enough that an infection takes hold that can reach epidemic proportions. It is the height of irresponsibility and selfish nonsense to put the general community at risk of disease because of some irrational notions of "natural health". Nature is not all that it is cracked up to be. Life expectancy from 1900 to the 1920's shot up from the 40's to the 60's as a result of the interventions of hygiene and vaccination. Scientific medicine has made a dent on the natural state of life; what Hobbes described as "nasty, short, and brutish".

This year marks the 100 year anniversary of a court case in Massachusetts that upheld the ability of the city of Cambridge to mandate smallpox vaccinations (New England Journal- 2/17/05). At that time, organizations such as "anti-vaccination" societies fought enforced immunizations as sacrilegious. Well, let's see. Smallpox used to decimate entire communities, killing tens of thousands at a time. It is now essentially eradicated. Vaccination of smallpox started in the late 18th century with Jenner's cowpox vaccine. Coincidence? Why don't we ask Dr. Tenpenny?


http://burkemed.blogspot.com/2005/03/natural-danger.html

[thinkingwoman]

152. hope you didn't pay too much

for that degree.

Mine (my English degree) tells me that I missed a comma after the subject line, which was the beginning of the post's first sentence.

Your post to me uses the same technique.

That being said, when the punctuation police invade a thread, it's a good indication that reasoned argument has left the building.

I will commend you, however, for at least digging up a quote to support your opinion.

[Susang]

153. Not to quibble

But you said "As I posted...Someone with a microbiology agrees". Care to tell me what that means?

As far as links go, I have plenty where that came from. That link in my sig line? That's my brother's blog. The autism researcher I spoke of in earlier posts is my sister. I didn't have to dig far for my quotes. I have experts on the subject in my family. How about you?

[thinkingwoman]

154. did you read the post

that I was responding to? If so, my statement makes sense.

What fascinates me though, is that you jumped in to correct my sentence structure (which, in all fairness to you, did lack a comma). You seem determined to make this discussion personal.

I don't find your brother's (or anyone else's) blog to be a scientific source. And I'm not sure what an autism researcher has to do with the topic at hand. I'm very happy for you that you have "experts on the subject" in your family, but so what? Experts disagree all the time.

The topic at hand, which is what my original post in this thread addressed, is the fascist notion that parents should be arrested for failing to immunize their children. Proponents of that claimed that failing to immunize a small percentage of children risks all children everywhere.

Talk about evolution of disease does not take the place of hard evidence that lack of immunization will lead to super childhood illnesses. You, and your family, can believe till the cows come home that this will happen, but to my knowledge nobody has provided any proof.

Until that time, me and my family (which includes people with good microbiology degrees and their own scientific experience thankyousomuch) will consider that fearmongering.

[Susang]

155. Did I read the post you were responding to?

Well of course I did. I wrote it. Or didn't you notice? :eyes:

[thinkingwoman]

125. first husband

has a microbiology degree.

I notice you assert again that it is "basic science" but provide no links to evidence.

[HuckleB]

132. I'm not an internet link person.

Good links are difficult to be had. On the other hand, if you want to meet me at the Oregon Health and Science University library this weekend, I'd be glad to show you plenty.

Of course, you could simply do your homework. It is basic. That's why I used that term. I'm sure you can locate a health science library with some basic textbooks.

[thinkingwoman]

134. you can't google?

or yahoo?

Sorry. Not buying it. And I don't live in Oregon.

[HuckleB]

136. Do your homework.

I don't buy a thing you've written.

I've stated what I know, and that's because I've done my homework. You think I spend time in a health science university library for nothing?

[thinkingwoman]

141. Now you're just being argumentative.

I don't care where you spend your time or why. This isn't a discussion about you.

I care about people claiming that the U.S. Government should be able to throw parents in jail for not immunizing their children. That's what my first post in this thread was about.

As for the rest of the recently posted nonsense, see post #139.

Have a nice day.

[Susang]

151. Try reading the link in my sig line

The one related to science. You might learn something new.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. Researchers in England

have come to the same conclusion as the CDC. There is no link.

[chomskysright]

143. you're disavowing 'overload' link re: chain of Hg administrations....

via vaccines.....in the air re: coal burning, etc. Link above.

[Susang]

148. Not exactly the whole story

~snip~
The allegation is that study author Thomas Verstraeten, MD, who presented these data at the conference, published a different version of the study in the November 2003 issue of Pediatrics that did not show a statistical correlation. An erratum in Pediatrics in January 2004 indicates that when he worked on the study, Dr. Verstraeten was a CDC employee, and that he is currently employed by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).

In April, Dr. Verstraeten wrote a letter to the editor of Pediatrics, which was published in the April issue (2004;113<4>: 932), voicing his opinions that the CDC did not "water down the original results." He stated that the CDC screening study of thimerosal-containing vaccines "was perceived at first as a positive study that found an association between thimerosal and some neurodevelopmental outcomes."

According to his letter, the study was a first phase conducted in two health maintenance organizations (HMO), with the original plan being to conduct the second phase as a case-control study, which the investigators realized would be too time-consuming. Dr. Verstraeten urged that the second phase be performed instead at a third HMO; it was, and this second phase did not replicate the findings of the first phase.

"The investigators could neither confirm nor exclude an association, and therefore more study is required," Dr. Verstraeten writes. "The CDC has taken its responsibility and is currently undertaking such additional study." Dr. Verstraeten further denied any allegation that GSK "hired away to manipulate the data before publication," and explained that he and GSK "had a very clear deal from the start of my employment that I would finalize my involvement in the study on my own time and keep this involvement entirely separated from my work at GSK."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/480683

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Mike Papantonio and Bobby Kennedy Jr had a feature on this on

AirAmericaRadio on their "Ring of FIre" show a couple of weeks back.

I heard Sarah Bridges on the show. She spoke of how in the early 90's they tripled the amt of mercury in children's vaccines. This coincided exactly with the increase with the occurences of autism.

The alarming increase in autism and other learning disorders in American children is now linked to thimerosal, a mercury preservative in childhood vaccinations. Sarah Bridges is a psychologist and mother whose son was brain-damaged by vaccinations and is now autistic. Bridges is fighting a bill by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist that would protect the pharmaceutical industry from lawsuits over vaccination-related injuries
Here are some other links about the subject
http://www.co-brass.com/vaccinations.htm

http://www.909shot.com/Issues/Injury_Compensation.htm

http://trainland.tripod.com/autism99.htm

[BrklynLiberal]

11. I posted this thread earlier today: Get a Mercury Test Kit!!!

New EPA Mercury Rule Called Illegal/How to get a Mercury Test Kit from Greenpeace

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=113274&mesg_id=113274

[BrklynLiberal]

13. Another link that mentions glutathione & the use of chelation therapy for

detoxification.
If you do a google using "genetic link, mercury toxicity, glutathione" you can get lots of hits.

http://curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=86&i=1

Glutathione protects against mercury toxicity.

Glutathione (USH)
Glutathione is an important antioxidant amino acid which protects against mercury toxicity. Glutathione is a tripeptide, made from the combination of three amino acids; L-glycine, L-glutaniic acid, and L-cysteine. Studies have shown that GSH levels are decreased during cases of mercury toxicity. It is interesting to note that GSH deficiency resulting from genetic errors mimic the acute mercury toxicity effects of Minamata disease. Without adequate OSH, mercury from the environment cannot be detoxified and eliminated.
http://www.nzhealth.net.nz/poisons/mercury2.shtml

[tavalon]

23. The glutathione stuff

was just coming around when I had to turn my focus away. I will try to look at that a bit in the next few months.

[SoCalDem]

14. And those coal burning plants will be "trading" pollution credits

like baseball cards, so you will never really know whether YOUR air is "chock full of mercury-goodness" due to credits, because the provider would rather pay extra to pollute..

Whaddayah wanna bet that the dirtiest plants are in the poorest areas.. The clinker here?? AIR MOVES...PARTICULATES FALL TO EARTH and get into water and the food chain..

We are poisoning ourselves and possible altering the gene pool forever:(

[leftchick]

17. The US is FAR behind other devoloped nations in reduction

of coal emmissions. It is obvious from this arricle that the US has NO interest in it. I am so Impressed with Canada. I wanna move there like tomorrow... :(


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1279/is_203/ai_114784972


<snip>

National and local governments, corporations and environmental groups are coming up with ambitious plans to cut carbon emissions. Prominent among these is a plan by British Prime Minister Tony Blair to reduce carbon emissions 60 percent in the United Kingdom by 2050. Blair and Sweden's Prime Minister, Goran Persson, are jointly urging the European Union to adopt the 60-percent goal, the amount scientists deem necessary to stabilize global atmospheric C levels.

A plan developed for Canada by the David Suzuki Foundation and the Climate Action Network--Canadian nongovernmental organizations promoting environmental sustainability--would halve carbon emissions by 2030 and would do so only with profitable investments in energy efficiency. This plan was inspired by U.S.-based Interface, the world's largest manufacturer of industrial carpeting. During the 1990s, the company's Canadian affiliate cut its carbon emissions by two-thirds through examining every facet of its business--from electricity consumption to trucking procedures. The company has since saved more than $400,000 a year in energy expenditures. CEO Ray Anderson says, "Interface Canada has reduced green-house gas emissions by 64 percent from the peak, and made money in the process, in no small measure because our customers support environmental responsibility."

Another push for renewable energy in Canada comes from the Ontario Clean Air Alliance, an environmental group that has devised a four-pronged strategy in phase out the province's five coal-fired power plants by 2010. Jack Gibbons, director of the Alliance, says of coal burning, "It's a 19th-century fuel that has no place in 21st-century Ontario."

And Germany, which has set the pace for reducing carbon emissions among industrial countries, is now talking about lowering its emissions 40 percent by 2020. This country already is far more energy-efficient than the United States, whose carbon emissions are projected to continue to increase. A lack of leadership, not a lack of technology, is why the United States' goal for cutting carbon emissions contrasts with Germany's.

[0007]

18. The poor always pay more and wind up the sickest and then neglected

and ostracized by the wealthy.

[redqueen]

52. Is this the cap and trade system envisioned in the Clear Skies garbage?

That was defeated... how did this happen?

[NC_Nurse]

19. No shit Sherlock!

I've been following t6his for a while. Testified at the EPA hearings here in NC at the open public forum about dangers of mercury and possible links to increasing autism as well as other neurological disorders to try and stop the "Clear Skies" debacle.

1 in 12 pregnant women has serum mercury levels higher than considered safe. Hello, does anyone in this admin give a flying shit? No, apparently.

Christine Todd Whitman apparently quit in part because she couldn't stomach signing this pathetic initiative into policy.

[SoCalDem]

76. Phooey on Christie.. If that's why she quit.. what a coward!!

Instead of SAYING IT LOUDLY, she just picks up her toys and leaves:(
Just like that lying face of hers explaiming that "the air is safe" at the WTC a few days after that gigantic ASBESTOS cloud washed over the whole area.. The SECOND I saw that cloud chasing those people,I KNEW it was toxic, and I am just an ordinary person without a degree in chemistry..

I cannot believe anyone BELIEVED her..

[LeftHander]

24. happy Bush relaxed the mercury rules....?

It would of made Coal too expensive to burn. So instead the EPA listened to the powercompanies and coal comapanies and Bush relaxed the rules.

"Filthy Skies" is moving forward.

[barbaraann]

28. So the subtitle to this article could be Drug and Oil Companies Innocent.

(It's the COAL-fired power plants.)

I was surprised to see such a stark title but after reading the posts to this thread I understand. An important part of the Bush/Cheney mission is to release their friends from any liability for asbestos- and mercury-caused health problems resulting from "frivolous lawsuits."

What a monumental fight we have on our hands.

[BrklynLiberal]

30. Possible Mercury, Autism Connection Found in Study

Studying individual school districts in Texas, the epidemiologists found that those districts with the highest levels of mercury in the environment also had the highest rates of special education students and autism diagnoses.

<snip>

The incidence of autism has grown dramatically over the last two decades, from about one in every 2,000 children to as high as one in every 166. Researchers have been hard-pressed to explain the increase, but many believe mercury to be the culprit.
The purported link between autism and mercury has been a subject of intense debate. In the past it has centered primarily on the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal, which was once widely used in vaccines

<snip>


Studying individual school districts in Texas, the epidemiologists found that those districts with the highest levels of mercury in the environment also had the highest rates of special education students and autism diagnoses.

<snip>

In the new study, Palmer and his colleagues used Environmental Protection Agency data about the release of mercury in 2001 in Texas' 254 counties and correlated that with the number of special education cases and autism diagnoses in the 1,200 school districts. Texas is fourth in the amount of mercury released into the environment annually, trailing California, Oregon and West Virginia.
The study, which will appear in the journal Health & Place, found that for every 1,000 pounds of mercury released into the environment, there was a 43% increase in special education services and a 61% increase in the autism rate.
The exception to the rule was Brewster County, which had a high autism rate but did not report significant mercury levels to the EPA. When Palmer investigated, however, he found that the county had been home to one of the largest mercury mines in the nation.

<snip>

more..........
EDIT: here is the link (duh!!)
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-autism17mar17,1,3169057.story?ctrack=3&cset=true

[BrklynLiberal]

31. LA Times article about connection between mercury and autism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1319667

[elehhhhna]

32. Study links mercury from power plants to autism

March 17, 2005, 6:24AM

Study links mercury from power plants to autism
By TODD ACKERMAN
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle
RESOURCES
A NEW CULPRIT

Texas researchers are reporting an alternative to the theory that the mercury in vaccines is related to the explosion of autism — mercury released by coal-burning power plants.
• The increase: Once thought to occur in 1 of every 10,000 children, autism today is estimated to afflict 1 in 250.
• Suspected cause: Mercury is a neurotoxin that affects the brain, spinal cord, kidneys and liver. It is released by coal-burning power plants.
• The study numbers: A University of Texas Houston Health Science Center at San Antonio study found a 17 percent increase in the autism rate for every 1,000 pounds of mercury released into the environment.

After years of debate about whether a nationwide explosion in autism is related to a mercury-based preservative used in vaccines, Texas researchers have found a new suspect: mercury from coal-burning power plants.


In a new study, scientists at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio are reporting a strong correlation between higher mercury release levels and the developmental disorder marked by communication and social interaction problems.

"This is a preliminary study that needs further study but suggests there is a link," said Raymond F. Palmer, an associate professor in the UT-San Antonio's department of family and community medicine and the study's lead author. "If corroborated, it would have pretty severe implications for policy."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3089561

[Sgent]

36. Couple of issues...

Thermosol, unlike the mercury emitted in coal plants, isn't theorhetically toxic to the body. The form that thermisol takes chemically should pose no risk in theory.

The drug companies don't care. They already have all of their liability covered by the federal government, so there really is no liability reason to fight it. Yes, it would probably cause a massive shortage of vaccine, as many vaccines can't be stored without it and JIT production techniques unfortunately don't exist for biologicals yet.

Their has yet to be a single large study that shows a statistically significant link between thermisol and autism rates. Take a look at the 2 year old institute of medicine study for more info.

The coal emmitted mercury makes the most sense in theory, and the initial study supports the facts. Additional study, espcially looking at a greater geographical range, would be very useful.

One final antecedent -- my state has the highest rate of childhood vaccines in the country. There are no exemptions from the program unless the county health physician exempts for medical reasons. Forget starting school, but even daycare requires up to date vaccines. All of this said, we have a lower than average rate of autism. Finally, with the exception of a small part of the state, the entire region (100's of miles) get's their power from hydroelectric.

[PA Democrat]

34. I live near 2 of the top 8 mercury emitting power plants in the country

and I have a daughter with autism. There are so many kids with autism in this area. Of my daughters class of 330, there are at least SIX kids with full blown autism- we're not talking about Aspergers kids that may have been undiagnosed in the past.

I am sick and tired of corporate profits getting priority over our health, our safety, our quality of life. The same politicians who enable polluters are actively cutting the very programs children and adults with autism desperately need.


Four of the top eight mercury emitters in the United States are in Pennsylvania: Keystone (ranked 2nd); Edison International's EME Homer City in Indiana County (3rd); PP&L's Montour Electric in Danville, Montour County (5th); and First Energy Corp.'s Bruce Mansfield plant in Shippingport, Beaver County (8th).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05012/440799.stm

[Eloriel]

123. It's another case of privatizing profits while socializing the

costs to individuals and society as a whole. It's unconscionable, even evil, and I can't tell you the rage I feel when I contemplate these unspeakable monsters who participate or are complicit -- a category that pretty much scoops up ALL the politicians federally and in various states as well.

On a more personal level, my heart goes out to you. I cannot imagine the burden and heartache of having an autistic child, ESPECIALLy with the dearth of "help" available from society as a whole, both institutionally and individually.

[BrklynLiberal]

37. This sounds like the "Love Canal" of this century!!!!!!

I am so sorry that you and your daughter and your neighbors and their children have been so cruelly victimized so that others can get rich, and have been aided and abetted by the government!!!

[TrogL]

40. I lived across the river from Love Canal

I have Aspergers.

[megatherium]

38. A good reason to give nuclear energy more consideration.

Many folks on DU hold to the old faith that renewable energy sources (wind, solar, biomass, etc) are the solution to our energy crisis. I used to believe this. But these energy sources cannot make more than a small contribution to our energy supply; they will not be able to replace the natural gas that is running out. The sad truth is this: we have exactly two choices for our energy future. One is coal, currently the source of 50% of our electricity. This article is a reminder that we are paying a steep price for coal. (Global warming and the terrible destruction of the landscape in Appalachia are other costs.) The other choice is nuclear (currently 20% of our electricity). Nuclear is very frightening to many people whose perceptions of that industry are twenty five years out of date. I have come to agree with those engineers who are telling us that nuclear is a feasible and environmentally acceptable solution to these problems.

I am not autistic but in the mid 1960s, I was diagnosed as autistic because my language development was delayed (I did not talk until I was four). So this subject is of considerable interest to me, as is the subject of energy.

[w4rma]

39. Renewable sources had *better* work, because uranium will run out, also.

That stuff is mined just like oil and coal is.

[megatherium]

42. uranium is not in short supply

contrary to claims of anti-nuclear activists. The proven reserves are only a decade or two, but everyone expects that once prospecting resumes, quite a bit more uranium will be found. (There hasn't been much prospecting in recent years since the industry hasn't grown as was expected back in the 1970s, and current supplies are adequate -- uranium is still inexpensive.) Also, fuel reprocessing (recycling) can extend the fuel supply considerably. (Fuel reprocessing has not been done for the simple reason that it doesn't save money; if nuclear is ramped up, reprocessing will become economic.) Finally, there's the possibility of breeding fuel. This could allow nuclear fission to power our civilization for thousands of years: most uranium is U238, which is unusable as a fuel; but cook it in a breeder reactor, it gets turned to plutonium, which is a nuclear fuel. (This process can even be designed to produce isotopes of plutonium that are good for reactors but bad for bombs; which will address the fear of proliferation.)

But again: if you reject nuclear, you are choosing coal. These are the only two power sources available in the amount needed to power our civilization. Solar and wind are inherently incapable of replacing fossil fuels. They are too expensive, too diffuse, too intermittent, and we lack the feasible (economic) technologies for energy storage that these technologies would require.

[BrklynLiberal]

51. We only lack the initiative and corporate backing to make solar and

wind energy feasible. No one will get rich from them in the immmediate future, and no one underwrites political campaigns from those industries. If so, they would be at the top of the list of priorities of energies for the future. We would not be at war in Iraq, and there would not even have been a vote on drilling in Alaska yesterday. There would be pollution efficient cars, and air pollution standards would be so strict that we would not be worrying about whether it is safe to send our kids outside to play in the summer afternoons.

[megatherium]

56. it's not corruption or corporate power that's suppressing

renewable energy, it's physics. Solar and wind are too expensive (too diffuse or intermittent, or available only locally), and without a good electricty storage technology, we can't rely on these.

Maybe further research will lead to a five or ten-fold increase in solar collector efficiency, which would make it economically feasible, but that's speculative at best -- there's already been billions spent on solar research, and while it has gotten much cheaper, it's still got a long way to go.

Probably, everything will come out in the wash when nuclear fusion power comes on line in the middle of this century. Word is from the physicists involved that they are increasingly confident that the ITER project will be successful, and that this will pave the way to feasible (economic) fusion power. (ITER is meant to demonstrate "ignition", where the fusion reaction becomes self-sustaining and puts out much more energy than is needed to contain it. ITER will be built in about a decade.) The physicists are getting confident due to recent progress in plasma physics (due to the tremendous increase in computer technology).

[BrklynLiberal]

58. Thanks for update. Sounds interesting.

[jpak]

66. Nuclear is too expensive

The last reactors built in the US came in at $4950 per kW

The FOB price of US manufactured PV in 2003 was $3380 per kW

New coal and wind turbine capacity is currently $1100 to $1400 per kW.

New gas-fired capacity is ~$600 per kW.

Not one new reactor has been ordered in the US since 1973 and dozens were canceled since then.

Installed US wind capacity is currently >6700 MW with an additional 3000+ MW to be added in the next 5 years.

US photovoltaic module production is currently >100 MW per year with ~50 MW installed each year in the US.

Again - not one new nuclear reactor has been ordered by a US utility in the last 32 years.

US uranium production has collapsed and we currently import 96% of annual uranium requirements.

and finally, fusion is an expensive joke.

2050 for a prototype????

You can go on-line an buy PV, wind turbine or solar hot water heater systems (not to mention wood stoves) that will satisfy some of all of your household energy needs.

You don't have to wait 50 years to do this...

[megatherium]

69. The last reactors built in the US

were designs now thirty years old; the expectation is that construction costs will be substantially lower now because of modern technology and standardization. As far as economics go, it's the electric industry that is now driving renewed interest in nuclear energy. A natural gas plant might only cost $600 per MW, but the natural gas is getting expensive, and scarce. (Proponents of natural gas would like to import it in liquified form, but this would make us even more dependent on foreign energy.)

Also, 50MW of photovoltaic per year sounds nice until you realize that this is 1/20th the size of a single, typical coal, nuclear or gas plant. We need to add many gigawatts of new baseline generation capacity. Photovoltaic is way too expensive now, except for various niche uses (e.g., for residential structures farther than a quarter-mile from the grid).

Yes, it will take until probably 2040 until a demonstration fusion plant. Once we get there, however, fusion power will become compelling: fusion has an unlimited fuel supply, involves a much smaller amount of radioactive byproducts. We have good reason to anticipate that this technology will be economic. Once that happens, our energy crisis will be over. Permanently. Unless you have strongly held religious beliefs against technology or you suffer from an invincible ignorance that makes you oppose technology on principle, that is. Some people hold romantic notions that all we have to do is return to the land, grow hemp, live off of solar-battery power systems, etc. If you want to permanently marginalize the environmental movement, you can advocate these things. Meanwhile, we'll keep burning coal. Lots of coal.

[jpak]

71. Global PV production in 2003 was 934 MW

and growing exponentially at 27% per year.

Global PV production capacity is expected to be ~200,000 MW per year by 2020 (and Japan will be the leader in PV production).

Strongly held religious beliefs against technology???

That's the rhetoric of Lyndon LaRouche, Dixie Lee Ray, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Crichton and the fringe-right anti-environmental Greenwash crowd.

Fuck that.

The build-nuclear-or-burn-coal argument is nothing more than a false-choice Strawman conjured up by those who religiously believe the "conservation is a personal virtue".

And it's bullshit.

[megatherium]

77. coal vs. nuclear is not bullshit.

It's reality. Tell us, please, how much per kilowatt solar capacity costs. Is it less than 5 times nuclear or coal? (Especially factoring in the intermittent nature of this resource, which requires storage technology.) I have read that billions of dollars have been spent on research on renewables; but I have read that in the last decade solar has increased in efficiency by only 30%. Solar is inherently limited by physics, by the diffuse nature of the resource. It isn't anywhere near feasible nor is it going to be, in terms of really replacing baseline capacity. But we have lots of coal, and coal is cheap. So is nuclear. Both will continue to be cheap for decades to come. Nothing else is cheap (or if it's cheap will remain cheap), except hydro and perhaps wind, but these are limited by the lack of good sites.

I will make one concession: I believe solar is too expensive to be realistic. But if somehow there were sufficient public will in this country to start putting PV panels up, on roof tops everywhere, in hundred-square-mile installations in the desert, whatever -- in sufficient amounts to replace coal -- I would be willing to pay my share. Absolutely.

PS -- sorry for the insulting tone of my earlier posting. Just please don't lump me together with Lyndon LaRouche. Or Limbaugh.

[jpak]

82. Again the FOB price of US manufactured PV modules was $3380 per kW

The last few US nuclear power plants came in at $4950 per kW.

The DOE estimates there are 222,000 US homes and businesses equipped with PV arrays and over a million homes and businesses with solar hot water heaters.

Between 10 to 20 thousand new residential PV arrays will be installed in the US this year.

US demand for PV modules is so great that it has resulted in a global shortage of PV modules....

http://www.energybulletin.net/1688.html

Finally, the Bush administration's Nuclear 2010 initiative includes $6.8 billion in direct subsides for new nuclear power plants (up to 50% of the cost of licensing and construction).

Do nuclear power advocates support or oppose ChimpCo's nuclear power programs????

Do they oppose state and federal initiatives to support renewables???

Please tell us how you feel...

[megatherium]

92. A typical rooftop PV system will supply power for $0.20 per kWh

over its lifetime (i.e., construction costs as well as operating costs). I'm not certain what the corresponding number for nuclear is, but it's something like $0.06 per kWh; coal is more like $0.03 or $0.04. (Nuclear is < $0.03 to operate but of course the plants are expensive to build. They're expecting the new plants to cost more like $2500 per kW, by the way. Industry numbers, take with grain of salt.) Please please correct these numbers if I'm wrong. That's the real problem with solar. I would be very grateful if you were able to tell me that the cost of solar will drop substantially in the not-too-distant future. I would be a strong supporter of solar if there was indeed a realistic chance of this happening.

I'm not sure I support Chimpy's subsidies of nukes. Perhaps they jumpstart the nuclear industry, so that we have new baseline capacity when we need it in a few years. (The industry claims they only need the subsidies to build those first few plants; until they prove that they can build new plants without the runaway expenses that marred the industry twenty years ago; then they'll no longer need the subsidies, and the utilities will be happy to invest in nuclear on its own merits.) But I certainly do support subsidies for renewables. They might not pan out the way you hope, but it's certainly worth a sincere try.

[jpak]

124. Current 2003 cost for US residential PV is $0.12-0.15 per kWh

and dropping at ~ 0.5 to cents per kWh per year (primarily to the decline in PV module and grid-intertie inverters prices).

PV today can shave grid peak loads (especially in the Sunbelt) and forestall the need for new base load capacity.

As the price of fossil fuels increase (and Oh they will) the cost differential between fossil-fuel generated and nuclear AND renewables will decrease. Who will win out will depend on how the price of electricity from these sources behaves. Right now, the price of wind and PV is declining. The cost of nuclear power, however, when you factor in the cost of decommissioning reactors and uranium mines, the disposal of depleted UF6 and spent fuel, and new transmission lines, does not appear to be on the wane.

Storage systems to support grid-intertied renewables will not be needed until renewable capacity comprises 20-30% of total grid generating capacity. We have a long way to go until that happens.

...and finally - getting back to mercury emissions...

Coal-fired power plants are responsible for only ~26% of total US Hg emissions (not to mention Hg deposition from Asia). Even if we replaced all existing coal-fired plants with nukes, we would still have a mercury problem in this country.

ChimpCo's new rules on Hg emissions from power plants is a joke. Check it out...

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/050316mercurysbar.shtml

[w4rma]

64. I didn't say uranium would run out *tomorrow* or even that soon. I said

it would run out. And it will run out in a number of decades. Renewable energy *has* to be the future. Because there just isn't enough stuff to dig up to keep us all powered, indefinitely.

[jpak]

68. Global uranium demand will outstrip supply by 2013

read it and weep...

http://lists.myspinach.org/pipermail/urg/2004-May/001513.html

[megatherium]

73. another article about uranium supply:

http://www.world-nuclear.org/education/ne/ne3.htm#3.3

The message is that if uranium gets more expensive, if there are shortages, then considerably more uranium will become available as it becomes economic to produce.

[NickB79]

48. You can also use thorium for fissionable material

And thorium is estimated to be three times as common as uranium.

[HuckleB]

44. New Book: Evidence of Harm—Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic...

Objective look taken at vaccines, autism

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/editorial/11143785.htm

"Objectivity is the first principle of journalism. Presenting a balanced view of all sides of an issue defines a simple (and simplistic) measure; "balanced" is not equivalent to "accurate."

Therein lie the conflicting reactions of praise and condemnation for New York Times contributor David Kirby's new book "Evidence of Harm — Mercury in Vaccines and the Autism Epidemic, A Medical Controversy."

"Objectivity is something I grappled with the whole time I was writing the book," Kirby told me in a phone interview. "Books have a point of view. But a point of view is different than advocacy.

"The title emerged from the text itself," Kirby said. " 'Evidence of harm' actually appears about 17 times in the book. 'Evidence' is the proper word for the title. There is a growing body of evidence of harm from vaccines containing mercury. 'Proof of harm' uses a very loaded word, and I didn't want to go quite that far."

..."

[HuckleB]

45. Recent related piece: 'No link' between MMR and autism

'No link' between MMR and autism

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4311613.stm

"Researchers looked at the incidence of autism in a Japanese city before and after the withdrawal of the measles, mumps and rubella jab in 1993.

New Scientist reports autism rates kept rising after MMR was withdrawn.

Michael Rutter, of the Institute of Psychiatry, who worked on the study, said it "rubbished" the link between MMR and a general rise in autism.

However, autism campaigners said they would want to see more conclusive proof from UK-based studies before being convinced the jab was safe.

..."

[BrklynLiberal]

50. There is absolutely no way that one could construe the findings of that

research as meaning that mercury and autism were not related. There is no way that a cause and effect link could be created from that research.
Just because autism continued to increase when the MMRs where withdrawn does not mean there is no relationship between autism and mecury! How do they know that the increase would not have been even greater if they had continued with the MMRs?
That is in no way a controlled experiment, especially in Japan with its history of atomic fallout and extreme mercury pollution(Minamata). The extraneous factors are too numerous to mention. I cannot believe that study was even published.

[HuckleB]

54. Perhaps.

On the other hand, those are the same arguments used to say there's no way that one can construe a link between mercury and autism. Further, mercury isn't necessarily the issue within this one study, which is as "controlled" as it gets in regard to this issue.

[Celebration]

65. no thimerosal in MMR

There are two separate issues with regard to vaccines-- 1. the thimerosol, and 2. the active part. The MMR controversy is separate from the mercury controversy, since that vaccine does not contain thimerosal. Just trying to set the record straight. By the way, at one time the cumulative amount of mercury from vaccines alone was over the EPA limit in children. Now, however, the amount of thimerosal in vaccines is much smaller.

http://www.vaccineinfo.net/immunization/injury/autism/DanishMMRAutismStudy.shtml

[HuckleB]

46. New Magazine: TAP - The Autism Perspective

http://www.theautismperspective.org/lo-band/index.htm

[UncleSepp]

53. Why just children?

It seems to be so much easier to find information about children with autistic spectrum disorders than it is to find information about adults with the same. Do the children disappear at puberty? The best adult information sites I've found so far have been written by people who are on the high functioning end of the spectrum themselves. It would seem to me that if a parent were raising an autistic child, the lack of information about how his child would grow up and be an adult would be terrifying - as if there were no chance of such a thing occurring!

Anyhow, thanks for the link and the information, HuckleB :-) Good stuff all around.

[HuckleB]

90. I suspect...

that the huge increase in numbers of children with Autism is one factor, in addition to the very recent history of children with Autism remaining in the community. So many of them were sent to institutions, often for their entire lives, and many of these institutions only recently moved the majority of their populations to community settings.

I suspect that more will become available for adolescents and adults (and those who care for them), as this generation grows older. At least I hope so.

Salud.

[HuckleB]

47. Eye Contact Triggers Threat Signals In Autistic Children's Brains

Just thought I'd pass along some interesting Autism research, not necessarily related to etiology matters:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050309151153.htm

[Ilsa]

100. I'm glad you did. I emailed this article out

to my son's teachers and others.

[mzmolly]

61. Our children have become national petri jars.

:(

[Chicago Democrat]

70. OK Coal fired plants were MUCH WORSE in 19th century. Coal was used

for everything including heat. London "fog" was coal smoke.


So why didnt autism happen then? Why is the mercury so much more now or is it?

[HuckleB]

74. All good questions.

I don't have an answer for any of them, but I hope those who are studying this issue do consider those questions and answer them before jumping to conclusions.

[EVDebs]

78. Maybe breathing it isn't the main way or vector for it. Vaccines direct

injection into the bodies of smaller people, who seem to be at a higher risk for autism in deveoping years...

but I could be wrong.

[HuckleB]

86. This study isn't about vaccines, however.

[LiberalEsto]

80. You've heard the phrase "mad hatter"?

Hatmakers once used mercury compounds to "block" hats into shape. Mercury-related mental illness among hatmakers was apparently rampant in the Olden Days.

[rodeodance]

83. lets all of us send his to IMUS as he has been hitting hard on autism

lately. Whatever you think of his politics--he has been a role in bringing this increase of autism to the publics eye. He has mostly consentrated on vaccines (maybe others)---

[Chicago Democrat]

88. Yes, hat making, also in mercurial-gold guilding... in fact the workers

died very young. Bad job. So they stopped doing it like that.


But coal is not new.... Why the sudden increase in autism...I think its something else. gasoline? jet fuel?

[Logansquare]

110. On what data do you base the assertion that autism didn't happen

in the 19th century? The condition wasn't diagnosed until the 20th century. Previous to that, autistic people were probably classified as "cretins" or "idiots" and institutionalized along with the mentally retarded, schizophrenics, bipolars and anyone else who was considered morbidly nonfunctional in society. Forensic history points to evidence of pervasive developmental disorders like Asperger's existing--for example, Isaac Newton is now believed to have been Asperger's or autistic spectrum by some medical historians. The mathematician Archimedes displayed many behaviors that could be interpreted as autistic spectrum as well.

[Susang]

116. Exactly

Many believe that the spike in autism diagnosis is because of our ability to identify it now. Because it is a spectrum disorder, is is believed that previously many that had it were classified as either "mentally retarded" or as having other disorders.

[Trillo]

85. Nah, it's all the 'inhaling' that's destroying brains. n/t

[bloom]

91. RhoGam, Mercury, Autism -The Gov't is protecting the pharmaceutical cos.

RHOGAM....

"The majority of the mothers with whom I am in contact...those with children
with Autism, PDD, ADD, etc., are Rh Negative and were given a RHOGAM shot
during pregnancy. Allow ONLY mercury-FREE Rhogham if you are Rh-negative
and are pregnant with your second child. It is not an issue with the first
child...it is the second child who is at risk."

From Mothering Magazine/March April 2001 "Mercury in Your Vaccines:
Exclusive report on the Second International Vaccine
Conference"....Stephanie Cave, MD.....

This is the first I've heard of this. I had a RhoGam injection. My second child has Asperger's.

I didn't necessarily believe the vaccination thing before - but considering the extreme recent jump in autism (in 10 years, in Illinois Autism went from 5 to 5000 cases.!!!!!) and considering the bill that was introduced in the Senate in January shielding the pharmaceutical companies - everyone should be ALARMED. (I know we're always alarmed - but this is the last straw).

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./temp/~c1093euWTy::

* A measure that would prevent health care providers from cautioning patients regarding toxic components of FDA-approved medications and vaccines

* Placing restrictions on the Freedom of Information Act regarding access to information on vaccine safety

* Limitations on public access to information regarding vaccine research, production, and regulation

* A preempting of state legislation regarding vaccines and vaccine components such as the mercury-based preservative thimerosal. For example, the recently passed Iowa and California bills to restrict thimerosal use in pediatric vaccines would be null and void. Several other states have similar legislation pending.

* Provisions for defense of pharmaceutical companies against litigation regarding FDA-approved products, i.e. Vioxx lawsuits

* A requirement that the Attorney General and the Secretary of HHS will provide their recommendations on vaccine injury compensation reform and the litigation of vaccine injuries. These important issues need fair, public hearings and do not belong in a Bioterrorism bill.

Conversely, several provisions have been strategically placed in the legislation that nearly all of us would support were they to stand alone, i.e. increasing death benefits to survivors of soldiers killed in Iraq. This clever craftsmanship of including laudable efforts on behalf of our military is designed to hinder legitimate dissent with the true intent behind S. 3: granting carte blanche power over this country’s vaccine program to the pharmaceutical industry. We cannot let this happen.

We invite you to join with us in opposing a bill with dire potential consequences for public health and the civil rights of all Americans. Below is a list of the organizations that formed the Civil Rights and Justice for Vaccine Injury Coalition for the 2003 project. Our mission statement is shown below. Please let us know by email at your earliest convenience if your organization would like to be involved in the Coalition's efforts regarding S. 3.


Sincerely,


Rita Shreffler
National Autism Association

[BrklynLiberal]

95. Sure makes you wonder. If they did not have something to hide, why

would they need this kind of protection from the government?

If it is already common knowledge that Mercury is harmful to fetuses and/or babies why the hell are they putting it into something that is given to pregnant women?

[noonwitch]

98. Rho-gam

My grandmother is RH- and my grandpa is RH+. They had their family in the days before Rho-gam. She had 3 normal pregnancies and several subsequent miscarriages after the anti-bodies in her blood stream started building up. This was also before the pill. My uncle was born about 5 years before the invention of Rho-gam, and he is totally and completely deaf, due to the RH factors. A lot of kids were born with much more serious handicaps than deafness due to RH incompatibility.

I don't know if Rho gam contributes to autism or asperger's syndrome, but it was originally made with the best of intentions, that is to prevent birth defects. Maybe the companies need to do further research into alternatives, but it does work to do what it is supposed to do.

[Ilsa]

99. I refused my RhoGam...My husband is Rh negative as well.

He is also type O, like me. I researched the likelihood of having anything other than an Rh- baby, and discovered I was statistically much more likely to have an adverse event from the vax than have a Rh+ baby. Both of my children are Rh-. I can't help but wonder if the Rh- is part of the constellation of genes and environmental factors that cause autism (one of my sons is autisitc).

[bloom]

103. It didn't even occur to me that they would be giving me something

that could have been harmful to my child.

I'm one of those people who didn't have pain relief during labor, have avoided processed foods for myself and my children, etc. Generally tried to be as safe as a person reasonably can be. So this just kills me. I am so mad.

[Ilsa]

156. I think RhoGam has been around awhile, though,

without an increase in autism. I'm not ready ready to blame it per se, but maybe the totality of all the vaxes that new moms today had over their lives.

[BrklynLiberal]

94. kick

[LiberalEsto]

96. Bush family/Thimerosal connection

Read this one:

http://www.autisticsociety.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=798

[barbaraann]

113. Your post might deserve its own thread.

Also, it should be noted that Dan Quayle is an heir to some Eli Lilly money.

It's really tough to fight people who have absolutely no humanity or decency. Our political system assumes that everyone involved has at least some humanity and decency, but the people running the GOP don't have a shred and the ordinary checks and balances just don't work.

[chomskysright]

146. GET Frist after DeLay: he protects big pharma

http://www.autisticsociety.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=798

During the original final debates on the Homeland Security Bill, Senator Bill Frist (R-TN), had argued forcefully for granting liability protection to makers of mercury based vaccine preservatives and said such measures were needed to boost an industry essential for public health. He is the only physician in the Senate and one of his party's leaders on medical issues, the Tennessean reported on Jan 11, 2003.

But critics of the provision didn't see it that way and accused "Republicans of tilting the legal system in favor of drug companies at the expense of autistic children," noted the Tennessean, "Hundreds of parents have alleged in lawsuits that the vaccine preservative thimerosal caused autism in their children. Eli Lilly & Co., the preservative's chief maker, and other defendants in the suits deny the charge," it said.

Frist's name came up more than others because he headed the National Republican Senatorial Committee, the Republicans' political fund-raising arm. Critics were quick to note the large amount of money that Eli Lilly had donated to Republicans. In fact, the pharmaceutical and health products industry was the largest corporate contributor to the National Republican Senatorial Committee, while it was headed by Frist.

And not surprisingly, Eli Lilly was one of the most generous contributors in the 2002 elections, giving about $1.4 million to federal candidates and parties, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, and three-quarters went to Republicans.

[westcor]

126. IMPORTANT

A new report has come out recently that people should only eat 2 -3 servings of fish a month because of the high mercury content, too bad the government doesnt feel like telling anyone, guess they are too bush with social security and invading countries and what not..

[hedgehog]

157. Here's an idea that might bring a lot of people on this thread

together:

I read somewhere (sorry I can't remember the source) of research suggesting that the damage that causes autism occurs very early in fetal development, even before the mother knows she's pregnant. Chemicals ( Thalidomide) and viruses (Rubella) are both known to harm developing fetuses. Doesn't it make sense that fetuses exposed to multiple insults; pesticides + mercury + petroleum by-products + PCBs etc. etc are more likely to develop autism. We may never find one single culprit, but could we be seeing the effect of long term exposure to a variety of pollutants. There is often speculation as to the effects of the chemical load we all carry. For my money, here it one result.

As to the vaccine-autism connection, consider this. The young brain is still growing and evolving, developing new connections every day. A mis-connection that was set in motion months earlier may only become apparent as the brain develops. Since vaccines are given at recommended intervals and since development follows general milestones, it would make sense that many parents would have their child vaccinated and then notice the first signs of autism. These two events could occur together in many cases and still be coincidence.

[HuckleB]

158. Exactly.

We've got a long road ahead in terms of understanding etiology. Jumping to conclusions on sketchy to unwarranted evidence doesn't help us move down that road.