Reply #114: Ok. I do think

[jtuck004]

that one who opines that Zinn's ""history" is essentially a grim fable about the Good and Virtuous People being fucked up the arse by the oppressive forces of a dominating elite" should try eating Thanksgiving dinner on a reservation in South Dakota.

Can be a grim time, despite the lively discussion of the beatings and pepper-spraying of otherwise peaceful protestors, and how they have it so much better these days (what with the lack of being shot at by the FBI and put in prison after being singled out for the color of your skin). But watching the movie where Custer gets killed always brings rounds of laughter and cheering ;), even if it gets turned off before the rest of the cavalry arrives.

Oh horrors, no sources and no footnotes? Zinn's book not only provides information that was conveniently left out of other works that are more palatable to the wealthy and elite, he points out where it is missing, and there are plenty of references for a real student to pursue. While I know there are those who assign integrity based on the format of a journal, I have noticed that discussions over control of the margins can prevent a more vital discussion about who is, or will be, controlling one's life.

imo, Howard Zinn had more integrity in his pinky than well over half the so-called educators in the two universities I attended had in their collective bodies. They grind out fodder for the 1%, doing their best to support a system that is in fact built to turn out people that can be more easily controlled. For me, thankfully, they were as predictable as always, leaving me plenty of time to roam through and read in stacks of books from authors long gone.

There are all sorts of opinion about education and writing, however. One of my favorites was Dewey. He wasn't much on testing, said the way to evaluate whether a student was learning a subject was to observe whether the student used what they learned outside of the class and school. Zinn's books is one (of several) that I will pick up and read again for the rest of my life.

ymmv however, and that's ok.