Reply #196: So you're saying progressives are extremists for trying to legalize pot...

[MessiahRp]

you then say progressives are smoking crack.

1. I don't see anything wrong with trying to legalize marijuana. The prohibition on it and enforced by Obama harder than any administration ever despite state laws allowing it in some places, is despicable and proof that this Administration has sold out to their lobbyist friends in the Pharmaceutical Industry. Also just because someone advocates for marijuana doesn't mean they use any other drugs and doesn't mean they are crack addicts. Maybe you're incapable of understanding anything outside of WH Approved talking points but Marijuana is not a threat to society nor are its supporters.

2. This has NOTHING to do with racism. You are a desperate fool to use that term at all. This is about actually standing up for the long held tenets of the Democratic Party Platform, which Obama has not. If Bill Clinton had put SS and Medicare on the table, Progressives/Liberals would have been loud and backed away from him as well (even more than they did with DOMA and NAFTA). Lest we forget and Obama supporters ALWAYS do: Progressives and Liberals voted for Obama en masse in 2008. We had high hopes and aspirations for the man based on his lofty rhetoric. Race was never a factor.

3. You and other Obama supporters are so two faced about Democracy. You try to claim its mantle if you win an election but try to deny its process when it works against you.

Obama refuses to listen to the Left or even allow them seats at the table for HCR. Knowing the base is unhappy, he goes out and tells us to hold his feet to the fire. So we do. And his most stringent supporters circle the wagons to defend him and shout down anyone who dare dissent against their President. He can do no wrong in their eyes and even though HE was the one who told us to hold his feet to the fire, you are there to try to douse the fire at every opportunity by working in concert to swarm threads and attack posters who disagree with Obama in derisive ways (Ponies, Delusional purists, emo, et al). Hell even that Chill the Fuck Out picture is offensive because it is targeted to liberals who have had valid reason to complain. Mods here are way too slanted towards Obama's supporters by allowing that sig line image.

Then when Obama has his team attack liberals (Rahm calling us "fucking retards", Robert Gibbs' obviously WH approved comments, Obama himself taking shots at Progressives or "some in his base") and we realize he doesn't want us holding his feet to the fire but rather he wants us to shut the fuck up and be a taken for granted robo-vote on his behalf, many of us get restless. We decide to discuss alternatives. Sometimes that includes third party ideas. His supporters then rail on us for that. I've heard many times about changing the party from within rather than losing the Presidency in 2012. I'll say this: The past few years have proven that The Presidency is not the most important position to have in Washington. Controlling Congress is. Because we can have Obama and his divisive strategies meant to prop up the ultra rich all day long but if Congress isn't ours it doesn't matter what we want passed. Alternately Congress now controls the agenda and this President has proven himself an impotent loser on issue after issue when it comes to his concept of negotiating (aka I'll always give you 98% of what you want BEFORE WE EVEN START).

So we're told to toe the party line and work from within.... we discuss primaries to Obama, which BTW is WORKING FROM WITHIN THE SYSTEM... and we're attacked. We talk about resolutions inside the party structure or for state party platforms. The Obama cheerleader infiltrated leadership threatens to expel an entire faction of the party if they even consider it (yeah this will help Obama in 2012).

If you think this all doesn't sound familiar to how Karl Rove worked the RNC and State Republican Parties when Bush was around you're the one on crack. Bush loyalty was demanded, all the way up to his rallies where you had to sign loyalty contracts. Is that what the Democratic Party is now?

Vote for a man over the principles of the party that has guided voters to this party for the past 70 years? Many people vote Democratic not because of Obama. They were here way before him. They vote because the party used to stand up for the working class and the poor. They stand up for a party that defends the social compact made by FDR and LBJ. They stand up for a party that works side by side with Unions (including teacher unions) rather than trying to destroy them at every turn. They don't come here for Obama. If he was gone tomorrow, they would likely still vote for Democrats.

However you and your fellow Obama apologists, the Third Way Team, you don't see it that way. You find us to be an inconvenient nuisance. Here's a word of advice. Know your role. There's FAR more liberals/progressives in the Democratic Party base than third way cretins. Sure the party has a lot of people that don't fit into either camp but generally those people aren't as passionate either. Casual Democratic voters. Not the most likely to volunteer or donate much money.

Liberals however, not third way-ers, are the boots on the ground. The passionate, vibrant heart and soul of the party. The ones who canvass the area and door knock, lit drop, phone bank. The ones that do the dirty work that does as much to elect Obama as his corporate sponsors' money could ever do. As much as you and others think you can ditch us and still win, you'll be in for a rude awakening next November if you try that because Obama will have one hell of a wakeup call when he finds that there are not enough Independents that actually like him to replace all the liberals he spit on along the way.

So either let us try to use the system and change things from within the party or expect a mass exodus next November (and yes, nobody expects a primary challenger to beat Obama but most of us believe he needs to be pushed by the left on his ideas so he can realize how much of the vote he needs to win back and to try to swing him back to the left on some issues. Debates with progressive candidates will make him defend his ideas versus ours and explain why the disdain from his side exists). And I do mean MASS exodus because that's where Obama has many of us (not just on DU) right now.