In regards to the race issue...

[vaberella]

I had written a great deal, but then I realized there was no real clarity of views that I wanted to target. So I'm going to try to sharpen my statements right now.

Let me begin by stating that I think DU needs to really get a clue and create a thread for a thoughtful discussion on race. And please no modding---at this point, we need to air out the closet. I have found this tiptoed on DU quite a bit and I'm sorry to say that DU has had a history at times of making those of us who are non-white particularly unwelcome. For instance, when shit went down in California and prop8. I definitely left DU. I was gone for a while. I was in awe, shock, and was extremely disheartened when I saw post after post describing Black people as generally anti-LGBT community. As though there are no Blacks who are part of the LGBT---shit--as though ALL Blacks voted for prop8. Actually as though none of us on DU who are Black would either be part of the LGBT or have family who are dear to us who are part of the community. Yeah, it was definitely unwelcoming. Am I putting DU on blast, in a way.

I think I have a right to vent and share when I felt unwelcome here and I found it hostile to Black peoples. There were actually a number of other instances ---one recently is when there are people who support posts in which people describe Black people as racial voters. As though we ONLY voted for Obama based on the color of his skin and no other. I would have hoped this sort of argument would have been dispelled. I think these things need to be talked about, aired out so to speak---and many of these things I've kept to myself or can be found in the African-American section of DU. I don't know how many on DU who are White go there to see or hear what we are talking about. We were marginalized on television as more of a zombie vote, and we are further marginalized on a liberal site in the same way.

Am I suggesting that DU fits Melissa Harris-Perry's statement? No. I found her use of racism to be a misnomer. I don't have a word for it, but I found the word racism a bit unfitting. I do agree with her that I have found they do tend to hold Obama to a higher standard than Clinton. However, I think this is not taking into consideration the history of Clinton and we're looking at post his presidency. I'm sure there were millions of people who turned on Clinton when he made so many mistakes in his presidency. I think even DU, if it was around would have been calling for Clinton's impeachment in some cases because they were so angry. So on that regard, I think she was being a loose with her statement. However, if we do look at the Democratic party as a whole---I think it's safe to say we do have a few racists in the bunch.

For example, when Obama finally got DADT cleared during the lame-duck season---many people on huffpost were happy but when there was a picture of a gay couple kissing---there were just as many people saying---"I'm not ready to see that." "Huffpost--please take down the picture." <----When these people were called homophobic---they also took up the liberal hat and suggested..."I have gay friends." I was definitely offended by that.

Another example was when I saw people on different sites supporting the shit coming out of the mouth of Tavis Smiley or particularly Cornell West. Cornell West pushed a completely racist, and I mean seriously racialized comment that was so volatile and polemic I thought it would get no support. However people supported it----mainly White liberals supported it. Which boggled the hell out of me. Especially when Cornell West stated that Obama couldn't understand poverty because he was raised by a White mother and family. So basically his whiteness caused him to be disconnected. And yet...there were White Liberals in complete support.


^^ I think this is really where Melissa Harris-Perry is coming from. There was a good backlash from Black liberals across the board against the statements Cornell West made. Melissa Harris-Perry was one of them. Actually she was the one who struck first and was attacked by some liberals and other Blacks for not supporting Cornell West's statements. I sadly have to say---Cornell Wests' statements were racially charged against Obama, actually against his White side, but was supported by many White Liberals---for what reason I'm not sure--Actually I don't even remember one White Liberal speaking out against Wests' statements---only Black Liberals. Maybe because it was a critique of Obama's disconnect, or maybe they wanted a critique. And went with Wests' vitriolic nonsense.

I actually believe majority of the Black members of DU have condemned Wests' comments as well as Tavis Smiley. While on another side he's hailed. And it's when I look at this particular incident and a few others I can sort of marry what Harris-Perry is talking about. I have to say... I don't think Clinton was called out for being White so he hence his disconnect with the poor. I think, and this is my own interpretation--that situation rubbed her the wrong way and this was manifested in other articles she might have read. ie Shaped her way of thinking. I think her statement was definitely broad---but there is some relevance when looking at some situations.

Another point that needs to be mentioned is that unfortunately, for many Blacks---me included, we find America to be a White America. Black President is irrelevant. Even when looking at the 2008 election what do we see. Blacks are seen as mindless zombies. An idea which has been propagated here and other boards and sites. As though Blacks only voted for Obama on race, when Obama wasn't even having a chance with the Black community early on---were automatically deemed HRC's automatic votes. When Obama started gaining the Black vote---our vote was then marginalized to a racial status. We weren't relevant. And I am sorry to say this has been stated in many places and has left me fuckin' offended. I don't think many of us here can deny we not have run across this sort of meme on other liberal boards or even subtlety put in articles.

The media didn't even give us the vote--our vote counted as one for Obama. While Obama was always either losing the White male vote or the White female vote. So minorities were shit in the scheme of things. This shows how marginalized we are. Shit...when we have people describing us as a race---you can see how far we have NOT come. In America we are still Whites, Blacks, and so on and so forth. But rarely are we part of the human race.

Another point that needs to mentioned. I don't think any group can fully understand the struggle of another group. White Women will never understand what Black women suffered in America. Maybe Black, Hispanic, and Native American women actually have a stronger relationship as far as struggles go. However, admittedly a great book called Latino's Inc. Shows the difference between Blacks and Hispanics clearly. In any event, our existence in America is heavily charged. Don't get me wrong. The life I've lived and the things I've accomplished I thank America for. I always state I was created in Haiti but made in America. And I am an American through and though. However, I also have to state I feel like I'm pulled into two worlds.

I have the world I have to fit in---ie White America and what those things denote. And I have the world I'm familiar with which is the Black community. They are not unified. They're very separate to me. I'm sure fellow Black posters can attest that there's a different way of living, vernacular and style of speech tends to change ---code switching, style of dress and interaction is very different. I had many White friends who didn't want to be out after dark with me in Harlem. Harlem of all places. I'm like no one is going to hurt you. I had a White person actually insult me by saying---she was entering my friends building and I was going in. She was like yeah..."I moved here a year ago. You know paying my due's." <----HELL YES I was offended. I wasn't living in Harlem to pay my dues. That place is home. I love Uptown New York. Kiss my ass paying your due's--because to me, it came across as though she's passing through and finds Harlem below her. When people talk like that---we get offended.

I think also...White people just don't know anything about Black people. I think Black people are raised in a way to conform or try to marry two identities, their own and the society they live in. I remember my friend (Black male) who told me could NEVER date a White Woman, he doesn't even find them attractive. I'm the opposite---as long as your male, have a decent fico score, and not married---it's fair game. ^_^ He was raised by Black women, his grandmothers, mother, older sisters and aunts. Dad wasn't in the picture. And they drilled into him no White woman. He came to develop a complex about interracial dating and he can't do it. I remember when my cousin came to America, from Haiti, my mother sat him down and said---have fun, but stay away from the cops and White women----it's as though Black men are Samson and White women are their Delilah's. The warnings is not a racial---in the sense of a racist warning. It's a warning to be careful...because you could lose your life, or at least your free will. While on the other end, it's more of a "Black men are dangerous." Or some association with a negative stereotype towards Black men. I mean it's ditto for Black women too---ours is more of being a novelty ornament than a significant person.

And I think this is where it is. Currently there is a response about Melissa Harris-Perry's retort to Joan Walsh's comment. Harris-Perry is considered too harsh for stating "you're not my friend"---I'm like in my world she's on point. There is nothing wrong with her statement. While it seems to be taken as inflammatory by others. I've been known to say the same thing and I don't see anything harsh in it.

I realize this is a little long. It's not supposed to come across as too broad based, and there is a slight defense of Harris-Perry---but the main point is that we do need healthy dialogue and I think many of us who are in the AA camp have been marginalized or ignored...especially what we might have felt offended by on DU and by other liberals. Sadly, I was extremely hurt when the prop8 situation was made to be the fault of Blacks in California---it just painted some White Liberals in a negative light so I actually saw some of Harris-Perry's argument, even if I do find the "racism" tag might slightly too harsh---I'd find some other way to define, but no words have come to mind.