Reply #18: tell me you are joking. Please.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

If a parent is sodomizing his son and daughter each day, since the age of three, can the state step in? (I had a case like that once. The most vile set of facts I have ever seen)

If a parent is deliberately not feeding or clothing his kids? can the state take them away and allow them to survive?

If a parent is deliberately preventing fundamental health care, life-saving health care for a kid who has been brainwashed from birth, and is incapable of knowing right from wrong, can the state act on the kid's behalf?

The whole point about having a society is to share the wealth, share the burden, specialize to become efficient, and to protect each member. Kids, in particular, cannot be protected easily, unless the state can interfere with the sperm donor's and the egg hatcher's rights as parental units if those parental units do not meet some basic, life-saving standard. Otherwise, you relegate kids to a role of property, chattel, cattle even, and make them subservient to the whims and crimes that some parents might commit.

The logical end of your argument will mean that kids are slaves to their parents, no matter how bad the parents are.