Reply #10: Excellent points. But consider this.

[autorank]

The ultimate question is what is the will of the Iraqi people?

What do they want? The surveys shown indicate that they want us to leave, by huge numbers.

In point #1 of the OP, I'd originally written, "needs and desires" and then I caught myself. That's condescending. We know what their needs are? Hardly. We broke their country and culture to smithereens.

I'm hearing people challenge the notion of American "exceptionalism" - which is great.

The position that the Iraqis decide their own fate is the first principle here. Everything flows from that.

On the practical questions, that's why it's advisable to plan and work together with them. We know they'd say, leave, now if not sooner. So it's a matter of saying, yes. Then we could work on those details.

The notion that it takes until 2013 is not sensible in any way. The British force, small, just left in a few days. We're more entrenched but there are people in the military who plan this stuff and know it cold.

If the goal is to keep the embassy bunker, the oil field concessions, etc. then we're talking about never.

In an odd way, forcing the issue of Iraqi choice saves our country because it frees us from the onerous burden THEY placed upon us. The American people didn't sign for a war based on lies. And I'm sure, the vast majority would want to follow the choice of the people made through a truly fair election.