Reply #25: Wow...

[lapfog_1]

just wow.

If I observe you helping yourself to something, I have probable cause to detain you.

If someone else observes you (a witness), I have probable cause.

If I have a surveillance system and have recorded evidence of you stealing, I have probable cause.

If you (let's say you have a purse or fanny pack) simply walk out of my establishment, and I have NOT observed you or have witnesses, I *DO NOT* have probable cause. I can always ASK to see what's in your bag, but if you don't want to show me, I have no recourse.

If someone walks out without paying, I have probable cause (again, I have witnesses to your theft). However, EVEN if I did not get paid and you walk out and I try to detain you... and you say "but I paid the waitress"... and she has left my establishment without telling me that you have not paid... I *DO NOT* have probable cause (unless *I* watch you myself). That's why, at shift change, every waiter and waitress MUST close their tickets or transfer them to someone else (if left unpaid).

You (and me) do NOT GIVE UP OUR RIGHTS by entering private property. You can be asked to leave, but you cannot be detained
or searched. Ironically, only when you enter FEDERAL PROPERTY do you give up your rights.

When you enter private property you CAN be searched (but it's voluntary, you have the choice NOT to enter). Stadiums and such routinely search patrons upon entering for things they don't want on THEIR property (like alcohol or metal bats or such). However, when you decide to leave, they must have probable cause to detain you.

I just can't believe that there are this many people that don't have a clue about the basics of civics.

What the hell do YOU think probable cause is? Someone leaving with a bulge under their jacket? What about a Sikh gentleman wearing a turban?

Shoplifting is a major problem in this country... don't you think businesses would have long ago instituted a policy of search everyone upon exit if it was legal for them to do so. Instead, they invest in RFID tracking devices to attach to all of the merchandise so that when some THING not scanned and paid for leaves, the alarm goes off (which provides the PROBABLE CAUSE!!!).

There are many resources on the net for you to research on "probable cause"... here is one.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p089.htm

Please read it. And then read the bill of rights.