Reply #108: THANK YOU for the good post.

[Evoman]

"And with 3 page explanation and the reason why the results were what they are.

Again half of scientists of quite religious. The only survey with a good response - 70% -so says.

The NAS number are physical science types who indeed do have a lower percentage of believers - but that is offset by the non-physics/chem types - besides- so what?

My point is not that there are no christian scientists. My girlfriend is a christian scientist (lol..see, I can tolerate christians). My point is that there are no FUNDAMENTALIST scientists. Why do you think this is? Because your average scientist realizes that the scientific method is a superior way of accumulating knowledge. The average scientist realizes that its impossible that humans were made out of clay, that tornadoes are caused by god, and that women were made out of ribs. But you will see people on DU argue that all that shit is true! Instead of saying, "I don't know how life originated but heres a possible hypothesis" like scientists do (even christian scientists), they say instead "I KNOW IT WAS GOD who did it with a wave of his magical hand". Its ridiculous.

You don't know how deeply I respect you if you are not one of the yokels who automatically dismiss scientific theories. I'm glad that you know about evolution and I sincerely apologize for having jumped to conclusions. However, there is no need for a pro-god split. There is no room or need for god in evolution. I'd like to know who this nobel prize winner is...could you give me his name or a link to the thread where this was discussed? I disagree that most christians believe in evolution...I khow plenty of progressive christians who don't. I'd like to see some polls on this ...I think you are wrong.

"Is the way you make a decision is to take a vote - or see where those you consider smart are going? Why not do your own thinking?"

I DO my own thinking. Thats the point. I was never "raised atheist". I was never taken to some sort of atheist church. Its because I did my own reading, my own thinking that I decided that there probably is no god. I don't just, for example, read one anti-evolution book or listen to a preacher, and then think I will dispute a scientific theory from people who literally know 100x as much as I do. And thats what is so fustrating. I've read the ENTIRE bible. I have also read numerous philosphical arguments by theist writers.....way more than your average church-going christian. And 99% of it is bullshit...they haven't read anything I haven't. There is no magic in the bible if your not taught its magic. They have no proof or even evidence, but they still claim they do!

And then these people tell me that I don't have an open mind!! They tell me I'm not well read or that I lack reading comprehension. These people who have spent their entire lives going to the same church. These people who were FORCED to go to their church as children. These people who were punished if they refuse to go to church. These people who have been taught at a tender age that if they don't accept the religion they will burn in hell. These people who know very little about science. These people who can't separate themselves from the constructs of their society. These people who haven't even read the literature THEIR RELIGION IS BASED ON. THESE PEOPLE TELL ME I'M CLOSE MINDED. You think its a coincedence that the kids of muslim parents are muslim. You think its a coincedence that the kids of christians are christians. Oh sure, there are exceptions....but the 1% who don't acribe to the religion of their society are an EXCEPTION, not a rule!

I recant my words about you papau. I am sorry that I make you out as an ignoramus if you are indeed not. If you can honestly tell me that you have read and delved into science, if you can honestly tell me you have researched other religions apart from your own and not blindly accepted what you were taught as a child, than I have nothing but the deepest respect for you, religious disagreements nonwithstanding. I have to be honest, however...when you start making claims that science is a religion and atheism is a religion, it kinda makes me think that you may not know enough about both these things.

I'm not a bad person....non of the atheists here are (although I can't say for sure...I have certain suspicions that Varkam may be Satan in disguise, hehe). And we have continually told you we appreicate you sticking it out and arguing. Thats why we are here. But if you seriously want only religious people in your discussion, why not just post in the christian or believers forums? I just finished checking through the last 4 pages of Religion/Theology posts, and like Zebedeos God Proof thread, most of the posts by theist are targetted towards atheists (and vice versa). If you guys don't want us to post and argue, why bait us? If you honestly want to talk to ONLY other jesus believers, why respond to any of these posts?