Reply #147: We have different meanings for logic.

[immoderate]

In my experience with logic, it deals with the values true and false. By knowing whether initial conditions are true or false you can derive the truth value of other conditions, provided the rules are rigorously applied. If you can't determine the truth of the initial conditions, the resultant logic is meaningless no matter how diligently or cleverly applied.

As far as reason goes, sure, it's always appropriate, and I've seen brilliant discourses on the number of fairies that can dance on the head of a pin, or the thermodynamics of hell, but what is resolved.

On the existence of clowns. I'm not sure what you consider a clown, but being invisible and undetectable would surely make him less than competitive in the world of show business. If he's made of matter, he's detectable. If he's not made of matter, what does "in" the room mean?

You want to use logic and reason starting with premises that are illogical and unreasonable (i.e. undetectable clowns) and my experience of logic does no encompass that.

I'm waiting for the proof that you can not prove a negative.

--IMM